Kicking The Bucket The Hard Way--

[Ron Hubbard]

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?
Thanks.

Ron


____________
"In the beginning was the rhythm, but I had forgotten and I was
waiting or the word."

-- Ray Manzarek (The Golden Scarab) --

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2011-07-09, Ron Hubbard <ryon@dslnorthwest.net> wrote:

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar

Not a theremin?

and I need a Panasonic MN3007

analogue Bucket Brigde delay line

IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?
Thanks.

chances are it's obsolete, I didn't find any alternatives either,
look for more recent plans.

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

 

[Bob Masta]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 22:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Ron Hubbard
<ryon@dslnorthwest.net> wrote:

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?
Thanks.

My recollection is that those analog delay lines gave fairly
low quality audio. Their big virtue was that they were also
fairly simple to use.

If you don't mind more work, there is another way to
approach chorus effects using a "phaser/flanger" design. You
can make one of these using "all pass" filter stages, where
you modulate the (phase) corner frequency. For each stage,
you get a moveable notch in the frequency response when the
total output is summed with the input. (A true delay gives
a whole series of notches at multiples of the delay time
reciprocal.)

Since each stage requires some modulateable component, the
trick is to find something cheap and available. When I did
this many years ago, I used CD4016 quad analog switches.
The idea (from Don Lancaster's "Active Filter Cookbook"...
highly recommended!) is that you drive all the switches
with a single PWM oscillator. Each switch is in series with
a resistor that determines the stage frequency. When the
duty cycle is high (close to 100%), the effective total
resistance is obviously pretty much that of the resistor
alone. When the duty cycle is (say) 50%, current can only
flow half the time, so the effective resistance doubles. And
so on. You need to make the PWM oscillator run at a high
frequency (preferably above 20 kHz) that can be easily
filtered from the output.

Once you have the basic PWM controller, adding more notch
stages is dead simple: Just add another all-pass stage (one
op-amp, plus a couple Rs and Cs) and put one 4016 switch in
series with the tuning R. All stages are basically
identical except for the tuning. Because all stages are
controlled by the same PWM oscillator, perfect tracking is
built in.

Best regards,



Bob Masta

DAQARTA v6.02
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator
Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI
Science with your sound card!

 

[Phil Allison]

"Ron Hubbard"

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?

** They all seem to live in Hong Kong and sell via eBay.

But you already knew that - didn't you ?



..... Phil

 

[Tim Wescott]

On 07/08/2011 10:43 PM, Ron Hubbard wrote:

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?

ADC --> memory --> DAC

The memory will come in the microcontroller you choose. You probably
don't even need a DSP to do this, and may be able to shoe-horn it into a
PIC, if you just use it for audio delay and not the whole application.

There's a _reason_ that analog delay lines went obsolete.

A better way to skin the cat is to put the whole chorus signal
processing chain into digital. This may need a modest DSP, but your
external circuitry will be at a minimum.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 22:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Ron Hubbard <ryon@dslnorthwest.net>
wrote:

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?

eBay. $5 for a set (Mn3007 + MN3001), $75 for 50.

 

[Ron Hubbard]

On Jul 9, 9:49 pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:

On 07/08/2011 10:43 PM, Ron Hubbard wrote:

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?

ADC --> memory --> DAC

The memory will come in the microcontroller you choose.  You probably
don't even need a DSP to do this, and may be able to shoe-horn it into a
PIC, if you just use it for audio delay and not the whole application.

There's a _reason_ that analog delay lines went obsolete.

A better way to skin the cat is to put the whole chorus signal
processing chain into digital.  This may need a modest DSP, but your
external circuitry will be at a minimum.

The circuit I found is a very simple one that uses a CD4046 in
conjunction with MN3007; a very simple and elegant design.

Ron

 

[Phil Allison]

"Michael Black"

The circuit I found is a very simple one that uses a CD4046 in
conjunction with MN3007; a very simple and elegant design.

But you're not listening.

** And you are not thinking.


Analog shift registers were a temporary thing,
a need at a certain point in time, but made obsolete as digital took over.
The analog shift registers could be noisy (from the clock) and I seem to
recal suffered from bad dynamic range. But back then it was easier than
going digital.

** None of which has the SLIGHTEST thing to do with the OP's DIY project.


Now it's different. Not only are analog shift registers expensive
because nobody is making them anymore, but digital has become really
simple and cheap. Yes, the number of parts may be greater, but it's a
relatively straightforward wiring.


** So writing and installing a program for a chorus effect in a SP is
trivial job for anyone is it ?

And working with SMD is piss simple too ?

The OP does not want to have to learn new skills or make 100,000 units -
he merely wants to make ONE unit using a long proven, dedicated analogue IC.

There is an old saying that when all you have is a hammer, EVERYTHING looks
like a nail.



...... Phil

 

[Ron Hubbard]

There's a _reason_ that analog delay lines went obsolete.

A better way to skin the cat is to put the whole chorus signal
processing chain into digital.  This may need a modest DSP, but your
external circuitry will be at a minimum.

But there's a reason why digital designs don't thrill me: I like
simplistic designs I can knock together on a piece of perf-board some
evening--- not some ultra-sophiticate digital mess that'll take a
complicated PCB that I would probably have to have somebody make for
me plus some program that'll have to be entered into a chip . This is
a simple project with emphasis on the word "simple." Sound quality may
never be great, but this isn;t a high-fidelity project to begin with.
And excpt for that damn MN3007 IC, eveything else can be gotten from
Mouser for five bucks or less-- what more can you ask for?

Ron

 

[Rich Grise]

Ron Hubbard wrote:

There's a _reason_ that analog delay lines went obsolete.

A better way to skin the cat is to put the whole chorus signal
processing chain into digital.  This may need a modest DSP, but your
external circuitry will be at a minimum.

But there's a reason why digital designs don't thrill me: I like
simplistic designs I can knock together on a piece of perf-board some
evening--- not some ultra-sophiticate digital mess that'll take a
complicated PCB that I would probably have to have somebody make for
me plus some program that'll have to be entered into a chip . This is
a simple project with emphasis on the word "simple." Sound quality may
never be great, but this isn;t a high-fidelity project to begin with.
And excpt for that damn MN3007 IC, eveything else can be gotten from
Mouser for five bucks or less-- what more can you ask for?

Are you saying you're looking for an analog delay line? Why not make one,

with a handful of ferrite beads, some magnet wire, and a few capacitors?

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Phil Allison]

"Michael Black"

The circuit I found is a very simple one that uses a CD4046 in
conjunction with MN3007; a very simple and elegant design.

The analog shift registers could be noisy (from the clock) and I seem to

recal suffered from bad dynamic range.


** Clock frequency residual is small and at frequencies above the audible
range.

The dynamic range of the MN3007 is quoted as 80dB by Panasonic.

THD is low as is current drain - and although the data makes no mention, it
can operate from a 9 volt battery.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/14235/PANASONIC/MN3007.html



..... Phil

 

[Tim Wescott]

On 07/10/2011 09:21 PM, Rich Grise wrote:

Ron Hubbard wrote:

There's a _reason_ that analog delay lines went obsolete.

A better way to skin the cat is to put the whole chorus signal
processing chain into digital. This may need a modest DSP, but your
external circuitry will be at a minimum.

But there's a reason why digital designs don't thrill me: I like
simplistic designs I can knock together on a piece of perf-board some
evening--- not some ultra-sophiticate digital mess that'll take a
complicated PCB that I would probably have to have somebody make for
me plus some program that'll have to be entered into a chip . This is
a simple project with emphasis on the word "simple." Sound quality may
never be great, but this isn;t a high-fidelity project to begin with.
And excpt for that damn MN3007 IC, eveything else can be gotten from
Mouser for five bucks or less-- what more can you ask for?

Are you saying you're looking for an analog delay line? Why not make one,
with a handful of ferrite beads, some magnet wire, and a few capacitors?

Or a spring, a speaker coil, and a microphone. _That_ should be a
project and a half!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Jamie]

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 07/10/2011 09:21 PM, Rich Grise wrote:

Ron Hubbard wrote:


There's a _reason_ that analog delay lines went obsolete.

A better way to skin the cat is to put the whole chorus signal
processing chain into digital. This may need a modest DSP, but your
external circuitry will be at a minimum.


But there's a reason why digital designs don't thrill me: I like
simplistic designs I can knock together on a piece of perf-board some
evening--- not some ultra-sophiticate digital mess that'll take a
complicated PCB that I would probably have to have somebody make for
me plus some program that'll have to be entered into a chip . This is
a simple project with emphasis on the word "simple." Sound quality may
never be great, but this isn;t a high-fidelity project to begin with.
And excpt for that damn MN3007 IC, eveything else can be gotten from
Mouser for five bucks or less-- what more can you ask for?

Are you saying you're looking for an analog delay line? Why not make one,
with a handful of ferrite beads, some magnet wire, and a few capacitors?


Or a spring, a speaker coil, and a microphone. _That_ should be a
project and a half!

yeah, Like the old ones used in cars years ago, hit a bump or rock the

car , you'd really get some extra effects.

Jamie

 

[Michael Black]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011, Tim Wescott wrote:

On 07/10/2011 09:21 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:

There's a _reason_ that analog delay lines went obsolete.

A better way to skin the cat is to put the whole chorus signal
processing chain into digital. This may need a modest DSP, but your
external circuitry will be at a minimum.

But there's a reason why digital designs don't thrill me: I like
simplistic designs I can knock together on a piece of perf-board some
evening--- not some ultra-sophiticate digital mess that'll take a
complicated PCB that I would probably have to have somebody make for
me plus some program that'll have to be entered into a chip . This is
a simple project with emphasis on the word "simple." Sound quality may
never be great, but this isn;t a high-fidelity project to begin with.
And excpt for that damn MN3007 IC, eveything else can be gotten from
Mouser for five bucks or less-- what more can you ask for?

Are you saying you're looking for an analog delay line? Why not make one,
with a handful of ferrite beads, some magnet wire, and a few capacitors?

Or a spring, a speaker coil, and a microphone. _That_ should be a project
and a half!

Actually, "Elementary Electronics" did it in the seventies with a garden

hose, a speaker of some sort at one end, a microphone at the other end.

Michael

 

[m II]

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Phil Allison wrote:

"Ron Hubbard"

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries
this chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a
supplier for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small]
quantities?


** They all seem to live in Hong Kong and sell via eBay.

But you already knew that - didn't you ?

I'm impressed. You must have a sixth sense.

http://tinyurl.com/64bboyg



mike



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[Geoff]

Ron Hubbard <ryon@dslnorthwest.net> wrote in
news:9637b193-277e-421c-b202-8da64275e7a4@bl1g2000vbb.googlegr
oups.com:

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I
need a Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found
that carries this chip requires a minimum order of $250.
Does anyone know of a supplier for this delay chip who
sells it in reasonable [small] quantities? Thanks.

Ron


____________
"In the beginning was the rhythm, but I had forgotten and I
was waiting or the word."

-- Ray Manzarek (The Golden Scarab) --

This is how simple a digital delay can be. Probably better
fidelity than BBD. Cheap common chips though higher parts
count than BBD design. No uP so no software.

http://www.armory.com/
~rstevew/Public/SoundSynth/Reverb/ddl.htm

 

[Ron Hubbard]

This is how simple a digital delay can be. Probably better
fidelity than BBD. Cheap common chips though higher parts
count than BBD design. No uP so no software.

http://www.armory.com/
~rstevew/Public/SoundSynth/Reverb/ddl.htm

Thanks, Geoff; as Mr. Spock would say, there are always possibilities.
More work than a lazy person like me usually wants to do, but it
probably beats waiting to get a MN3007 from who-knows-where.

Ron

 

[Ron Hubbard]

On Jul 11, 4:55 pm, m II <C...@in.the.hat> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Phil Allison wrote:
"Ron Hubbard"

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries
this chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a
supplier for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small]
quantities?

** They all seem to live in Hong Kong and sell via eBay.

But you already knew that -   didn't you ?

I'm impressed. You must have a sixth sense.

I run the group for folks with ESP ( http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/telepaths_empaths_scanners/
)and I saw it coming; I just desperately hoped I was wrong for
once... ;-)

Ron


__________________
"There are special people in this world. We don't ask to be special.
We're just born this way. We pass you on the streets every day,
unnoticed by most. "

-- Cassie Holmes (Push) --

 

[Geoff]

Ron Hubbard <ryon@dslnorthwest.net> wrote in
news:c6827d0c-dacc-4b17-9e6e-4d14dcded9c3@l28g2000yqc.googlegr
oups.com:

This is how simple a digital delay can be. Probably better
fidelity than BBD. Cheap common chips though higher parts
count than BBD design. No uP so no software.

http://www.armory.com/
~rstevew/Public/SoundSynth/Reverb/ddl.htm

Thanks, Geoff; as Mr. Spock would say, there are always
possibilities. More work than a lazy person like me usually
wants to do, but it probably beats waiting to get a MN3007
from who-knows-where.

Ron

I do have some MN3001 in my garage, do you know the going rate
for these?

 

[Ron Hubbard]

On Jul 11, 7:50 pm, Geoff <pub...@email.com> wrote:

Ron Hubbard <r...@dslnorthwest.net> wrote innews:c6827d0c-dacc-4b17-9e6e-4d14dcded9c3@l28g2000yqc.googlegr
oups.com:







This is how simple a digital delay can be. Probably better
fidelity than BBD. Cheap common chips though higher parts
count than BBD design. No uP so no software.

http://www.armory.com/
~rstevew/Public/SoundSynth/Reverb/ddl.htm

Thanks, Geoff; as Mr. Spock would say, there are always
possibilities. More work than a lazy person like me usually
wants to do, but it probably beats waiting to get a MN3007
from who-knows-where.

Ron

I do have some MN3001 in my garage, do you know the going rate
for these?

LOL. Going rate? For the MN3007 I suppose it's a seller's market. Some
companies (here in the US) have been known to sell them for $1.95
which by itself ain't bad-- but then they have a $250 minimum order
that *is* bad. Some companies in the UK sell them for $9.95 each
(British equivalent); and on eBay they can be anything from $0.99
cents each up--- not including shipping charges. But since this IC has
a bad reputation for noise, there are newer and better ICs that do the
same thing, and it's sure not a hot item any more I don't suppose
anyone would pay too much for them.

Ron