Kick-starting and LED ??

[mpm]

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 1:38:50 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 10:04:20 AM UTC-8, Rick C wrote:

If this is a printed ink membrane my money is on stray ink.

Yep, all it takes is a bit of fiber dangling from the (tip/brush/nozzle). I'm guessing
that it didn't show up in visual inspection because it was very thin. Had that
happen on printed circuits, too (etched not-quite-all of the way through)..

Wet items are complex at all scales (from wet chemistry up to hillsides about to avalanche).

I created the file life-size in Photoshop Elements (believe it on not).
What a total pain in the ass that was.
Would it kill JRPanel.com to offer an editing tool?

I did review the PDF order file, but didn't see any artifacts from the creation side of things. And I don't know how they lay down the conductive tracks (raster?, or vector? random?), or how they attach the LED's to said tracks So, hard to say where all the wet stuff "really" travels. The failure rate on this most recent order was the same as before ~ 2%.

It's in layers (most of which are some translucent white plastic sheeting (for lack of a better term), all glued together. So between the white layers and (whatever color?) glue, we couldn't see anything obvious under the microscope - but that doesn't conclusively rule it out either.

 

[speff]

On Saturday, 18 January 2020 19:04:30 UTC-5, mpm wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 1:38:50 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 10:04:20 AM UTC-8, Rick C wrote:

If this is a printed ink membrane my money is on stray ink.

Yep, all it takes is a bit of fiber dangling from the (tip/brush/nozzle). I'm guessing
that it didn't show up in visual inspection because it was very thin. Had that
happen on printed circuits, too (etched not-quite-all of the way through).

Wet items are complex at all scales (from wet chemistry up to hillsides about to avalanche).

I created the file life-size in Photoshop Elements (believe it on not).
What a total pain in the ass that was.
Would it kill JRPanel.com to offer an editing tool?

I did review the PDF order file, but didn't see any artifacts from the creation side of things. And I don't know how they lay down the conductive tracks (raster?, or vector? random?), or how they attach the LED's to said tracks So, hard to say where all the wet stuff "really" travels. The failure rate on this most recent order was the same as before ~ 2%.

It's in layers (most of which are some translucent white plastic sheeting (for lack of a better term), all glued together. So between the white layers and (whatever color?) glue, we couldn't see anything obvious under the microscope - but that doesn't conclusively rule it out either.

I would expect a graphic designer to use Adobe Illustrator or maybe Inkscape
and output the PDF from that. Certainly no bitmaps. They're fairly complex
programs to master. I'm somewhat competent, but partly because I used to
write membrane keyboard graphics in raw Postscript back in the dark ages,
and the underlying model is the same. Also I understand traps, knockouts and overprints from doing multi-color screen printing manually. The vendor
probably adjusts the artwork for you in this case.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 2:35:00 AM UTC-5, speff wrote:

I would expect a graphic designer to use Adobe Illustrator or maybe Inkscape
and output the PDF from that. Certainly no bitmaps. They're fairly complex
programs to master. I'm somewhat competent, but partly because I used to
write membrane keyboard graphics in raw Postscript back in the dark ages,
and the underlying model is the same. Also I understand traps, knockouts and overprints from doing multi-color screen printing manually. The vendor
probably adjusts the artwork for you in this case.

I could not get Illustrator to run on my PC. (That was my first choice.)
It used to work just fine, but something's obviously happened to it.

But yes - I suspect JRPanel is doing something to the file.
The reason I say that is you have to upload your file to them first, and then wait. Later on, they send an email that the file is accepted and only then can you pay for your order.

 

[George Herold]

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 1:38:50 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 10:04:20 AM UTC-8, Rick C wrote:

If this is a printed ink membrane my money is on stray ink.

Yep, all it takes is a bit of fiber dangling from the (tip/brush/nozzle). I'm guessing
that it didn't show up in visual inspection because it was very thin. Had that
happen on printed circuits, too (etched not-quite-all of the way through).

Wet items are complex at all scales (from wet chemistry up to hillsides about to avalanche).

OK then why only the green leds?
George H.

 

George Herold <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in
news:919fdbef-0500-4fe0-903d-fa4429614262@googlegroups.com:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 1:38:50 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 10:04:20 AM UTC-8, Rick C wrote:

If this is a printed ink membrane my money is on stray ink.

Yep, all it takes is a bit of fiber dangling from the
(tip/brush/nozzle). I'm guessing that it didn't show up in
visual inspection because it was very thin. Had that happen on
printed circuits, too (etched not-quite-all of the way through).

Wet items are complex at all scales (from wet chemistry up to
hillsides about to avalanche).

OK then why only the green leds?
George H.

An dyslexic kid made an image (of John Cena)with 750 rubic's cubes
on the floor, top side only for the image. He used over 85% only red
squares.

<https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/18/us/dyslexia-rubiks-cube-john-cena-
trnd/index.html>

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 11:12:12 AM UTC-8, George Herold wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 1:38:50 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 10:04:20 AM UTC-8, Rick C wrote:

If this is a printed ink membrane my money is on stray ink.

Yep, all it takes is a bit of fiber dangling from the (tip/brush/nozzle).

OK then why only the green leds?

If there's a small quantity of ink involved, only a stroke which crosses a narrow gap
will short; it depends on the path taken by the ink-bearing mechanism between
traces. So, you'd need not only to examine the pattern, but the path that the print
mechanism used to print it, and maybe the speed as well.

Or, it could be a screen printing, with just a bit of a wrinkle in the screen...