John Larkin, Dremeling PCBs...

[Lamont Cranston]

Hi John,
You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last night, I got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have, specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.

Thanks, Mikek

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Lamont Cranston wrote:

Hi John,
You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last night, I got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have, specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.

Thanks, Mikek

Dremel makes a Jacobs chuck (p/n 4486) that works down to very small
diameters. That\'s the only one I ever use.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Lamont Cranston wrote:
Hi John,
  You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last night, I
got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
  I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have,
specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.
                                 Thanks, Mikek


Dremel makes a Jacobs chuck (p/n 4486) that works down to very small
diameters.  That\'s the only one I ever use.


They\'re on deal for eleven bucks at that jungle website.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Lamont Cranston]

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:09:45 AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Dremel makes a Jacobs chuck (p/n 4486) that works down to very small
diameters. That\'s the only one I ever use.


They\'re on deal for eleven bucks at that jungle website.
Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Yes, I went looking for collets and found several mutli packs and then also the keyless chucks.
I have both in my \"jungle\" cart, I\'ll have to decide which I want. I\'d like the chuck, but, I don\'t want
one that is off center! I\'ve been funding the jungle a lot lately.
Mikek

 

[Don]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Lamont Cranston wrote:
Hi John,
You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last night, I got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have, specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.

Dremel makes a Jacobs chuck (p/n 4486) that works down to very small
diameters. That\'s the only one I ever use.

The Dremel Jacobs chuck is nearly always used by me too. Because it
saves so much effort.

On the other hand, both copper and paper plated universal PCB works best
for my own prototypes. It\'s possible to stack double sided copper with
single sided PCB to make multi-layered prototypes.
Strip board even retains a place in the process. Yes, and even dead-
bug, if need be. LOL.

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

 

[server]

Lamont Cranston <amdx62@gmail.com> wrote in
news:f0511e37-f069-4fa2-850f-7572a0dbe954n@googlegroups.com:

Hi John,
You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last night,
I got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have,
specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.

Thanks, Mikek

Use the little concrete cut-off saw. it is abrasive. I would not use
any steel type cutter or mill... ever.

 

[server]

\"Don\" <g@crcomp.net> wrote in news:20221104a@crcomp.net:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Lamont Cranston wrote:
Hi John,
You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last
night, I got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have,
specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.

Dremel makes a Jacobs chuck (p/n 4486) that works down to very
small diameters. That\'s the only one I ever use.

The Dremel Jacobs chuck is nearly always used by me too. Because
it saves so much effort.

On the other hand, both copper and paper plated universal PCB
works best for my own prototypes. It\'s possible to stack double
sided copper with single sided PCB to make multi-layered
prototypes.
Strip board even retains a place in the process. Yes, and even
dead-
bug, if need be. LOL.

Danke,

That seems wussified. You guys are worried about the littel time it
takes to change a bit in a collet over a Jacobs chuck? Wow, you must
save a whole half second and two calories.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 07:54:24 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
<amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi John,
You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last night, I got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have, specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.

Thanks, Mikek

Post a picture and we can discuss it.

I work freehand. I use a variable-speed Dremel about half-speed and a
carbide dental burr, which are cheap on ebay. Chuck, not collet, as
Phil says. The rounded-tip burrs work best.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0d5vvnqkh1bkugy/Burr_1.JPG?raw=1

These are flattened and work but not as nice a cut:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hcsy9facexz5pw5/Burr_Komet.JPG?raw=1

About $1 each on ebay, usually.

It\'s important to use 1 oz or even 1/2 oz copperclad. 2 Oz is hard to
work with.

I like to work on double-side ENIG gold plated FR4, which I have one
of my PCB houses make for me, a couple of square feet every few years.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1

I work freehand under a Mantis viewer. Sometimes I whiteboard a
complex pattern and draw it with a sharpie, to not get confused while
I\'m cutting. It\'s cut once, can\'t erase.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gl6h8e8n5nfj6pb/Z340_LEDs.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9av93ul8148zdjm/Z356_SN2.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

I like to use 2-56 screws as power and ground terminals, with the
ground screws grabbing the ground plane on the other side.

Lots of parts are poorly specified, especially RF stuff. Once I
measure real numbers, I can decide how hard to push them to get
performance. Abs Max is for wimps.

I\'ve done hundreds of these so have had a lot of practice. You need a
steady hand, which is mostly genetic. I was talking to my retina
surgeon about that and showed him some proto boards. He peeled two
layers of cells off my retina freehand with tweezers. He says that not
many MD\'s can do that.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 11:09:38 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Lamont Cranston wrote:
Hi John,
  You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last night, I
got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
  I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have,
specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.
                                 Thanks, Mikek


Dremel makes a Jacobs chuck (p/n 4486) that works down to very small
diameters.  That\'s the only one I ever use.


They\'re on deal for eleven bucks at that jungle website.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Amazon won\'t sell dental burrs unless you somehow certify that you are
a dentist. ebay doesn\'t care.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
<amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:09:45 AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:

Dremel makes a Jacobs chuck (p/n 4486) that works down to very small
diameters. That\'s the only one I ever use.


They\'re on deal for eleven bucks at that jungle website.
Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Yes, I went looking for collets and found several mutli packs and then also the keyless chucks.
I have both in my \"jungle\" cart, I\'ll have to decide which I want. I\'d like the chuck, but, I don\'t want
one that is off center! I\'ve been funding the jungle a lot lately.
Mikek

\"Suicide by Amazon\" when the stuff piles up in the front hall and
falls on you.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 15:34:38 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Lamont Cranston <amdx62@gmail.com> wrote in
news:f0511e37-f069-4fa2-850f-7572a0dbe954n@googlegroups.com:

Hi John,
You Dremel carve some pcb test boards. I did my first last night,
I got it done, but not the best.
Do you have any hints on how you do it?
Do you have a regular Dremel?
Is it all freehand?
I have dental bits, but many don\'t fit the collets I have,
specifically 1/16\" bits.
Do you have a source of collets.

Thanks, Mikek


Use the little concrete cut-off saw. it is abrasive. I would not use
any steel type cutter or mill... ever.

Do you mean an abrasive disc? It will load up with copper, and it
can\'t cut sharp corners.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

 

[Lamont Cranston]

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:38:54 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

> Post a picture and we can discuss it.

Well, I\'m not proud to put this out, but...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y6zibg202dk83sv/High%20input%20impedance%20PCB%20with%20parts.jpg?dl=0
You mention round tip, that may help a little.
I drew mine out in paint and glued it to the PCB, then followed the lines, (apparently drunkenly!)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rc4lsdg8ltyvc3x/H%20I%20I%20amp.jpg?dl=0
Mikek

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2022-11-04 16:54, Lamont Cranston wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:38:54 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

Post a picture and we can discuss it.

Well, I\'m not proud to put this out, but...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y6zibg202dk83sv/High%20input%20impedance%20PCB%20with%20parts.jpg?dl=0
You mention round tip, that may help a little.
I drew mine out in paint and glued it to the PCB, then followed the lines, (apparently drunkenly!)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rc4lsdg8ltyvc3x/H%20I%20I%20amp.jpg?dl=0
Mikek

Maybe some pantograph arrangement would be handy. Make a scale 2 sketch
and follow the lines using a ruler.

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Lamont Cranston]

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:48:13 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

Do you mean an abrasive disc? It will load up with copper, and it
can\'t cut sharp corners.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

I was going to ask if that was directed at me, then I saw the previous post.
Anyway here\'s what I used, it\'s 0.35\" diameter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/80ym98ms3sp5udp/Dental%20biy%200.035%20in.jpg?dl=0
Mikek

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 08:54:51 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
<amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:38:54 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

Post a picture and we can discuss it.

Well, I\'m not proud to put this out, but...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y6zibg202dk83sv/High%20input%20impedance%20PCB%20with%20parts.jpg?dl=0
You mention round tip, that may help a little.

That\'s not bad. If the traces are a little ragged I\'ll pretty them up
with an x-acto knife. I do work mostly surface-mount. Surface mount,
63/37 solder, gold FR4, wash off the flux, practically jewelry.

I drew mine out in paint and glued it to the PCB, then followed the lines, (apparently drunkenly!)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rc4lsdg8ltyvc3x/H%20I%20I%20amp.jpg?dl=0
Mikek

I use a Sharpie and sometimes a ruler to make nice straight lines
before I cut. Visually, little wobbles don\'t look bad but long slopes
do.

Alcohol has an optimum point, about 1 oz for me, dremeling or skiing.

https://www.amazon.com/Drunk-Sipped-Danced-Stumbled-Civilization/dp/0316453358/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OT62WS7VOBOS&keywords=book+drunk&qid=1667579971&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjA2IiwicXNhIjoiMC45MSIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=book+drunk%2Caps%2C141&sr=8-1

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 09:43:36 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
<amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:48:13 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

Do you mean an abrasive disc? It will load up with copper, and it
can\'t cut sharp corners.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

I was going to ask if that was directed at me, then I saw the previous post.

No, that was a response to Always Wrong, who is an authority on
everything but designs nothing.

Anyway here\'s what I used, it\'s 0.35\" diameter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/80ym98ms3sp5udp/Dental%20biy%200.035%20in.jpg?dl=0
Mikek

The small round-end burrs are harder to find but cut traces much
better.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 11:51:40 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 09:43:36 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amd...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:48:13 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

Do you mean an abrasive disc? It will load up with copper, and it
can\'t cut sharp corners.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

I was going to ask if that was directed at me, then I saw the previous post.
No, that was a response to Always Wrong, who is an authority on
everything but designs nothing.
Anyway here\'s what I used, it\'s 0.35\" diameter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/80ym98ms3sp5udp/Dental%20biy%200.035%20in.jpg?dl=0
Mikek
The small round-end burrs are harder to find but cut traces much
better.

My daughter has been a Dentist for about 6 months now, I got some used bits when she was in dental school.
I\'ll specifically ask her for round end burrs. I should get something for my $260k in tuition payments!
Mikek

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 09:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
<amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 11:51:40 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 09:43:36 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amd...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 10:48:13 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

Do you mean an abrasive disc? It will load up with copper, and it
can\'t cut sharp corners.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

I was going to ask if that was directed at me, then I saw the previous post.
No, that was a response to Always Wrong, who is an authority on
everything but designs nothing.
Anyway here\'s what I used, it\'s 0.35\" diameter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/80ym98ms3sp5udp/Dental%20biy%200.035%20in.jpg?dl=0
Mikek
The small round-end burrs are harder to find but cut traces much
better.

My daughter has been a Dentist for about 6 months now, I got some used bits when she was in dental school.
I\'ll specifically ask her for round end burrs. I should get something for my $260k in tuition payments!
Mikek

My kid went to Cornell at full price. She dual-majored in softball and
beer pong.

 

[whit3rd]

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 8:48:13 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 15:34:38 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Use the little concrete cut-off saw. it is abrasive. I would not use
any steel type cutter or mill... ever.
Do you mean an abrasive disc? It will load up with copper, and it
can\'t cut sharp corners.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

Well, it can certainly cut sharp metal corners; it\'s the CUT path that
isn\'t sharp cornered, not t he result when you intersect a N/S with an E/W
cut. The loading can be treated by using the little abrasive stone (that
used to come with Dremel tools) to dress the disc. Don\'t try that on
a metal burr, of course.

Biggest problem with abrasive disk: the pesky powder/grit residues.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 12:10:44 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

My daughter has been a Dentist for about 6 months now, I got some used bits when she was in dental school.
I\'ll specifically ask her for round end burrs. I should get something for my $260k in tuition payments!
Mikek
My kid went to Cornell at full price. She dual-majored in softball and
beer pong.

Mine had a degree in horticulture and agri-business, worked 3 years doing very well and the then the company merged with another and new management changed all the good things. She decided to go back to school to become a dentist. Two years of premed, a masters and then dental school.
As I have said, she has some bad ass sticktoitness!
Mikek