Jihad needs scientists

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:16:32 +0100, "T Wake"
<usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 21:59:40 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> Gave us:

Yep. And isn't it also ironic that the ouster of those very commies has
been one of the destabilizing forces in the world that may well have
furthered the current mess?


You're an idiot.

Ya gotta love his nuanced and repetitive view of the world, ladies and
gentlemen.

He has made a lot of posts, he must be getting to the limit of words he can
use. This explains the repeating cycles.
But he regularly changes his nym, and gets to start afresh.

John
 
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
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In article <KhuVg.13905$7I1.10490@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
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Oh, the innumeracy. At the rate that they're doing that, it will take
at
least an order of magnitude longer than all of recorded human history to
reach the stated endpoint. In the meantime, how about if we stop giving
them reasons to do so?

If you had your way, everybody would convert to Islam.

No, not even remotely. We would just stop going out of our way to do the
things that we repeatedly do that piss off the rest of the world.

Using computers is a product of Western civilization. Are you
suggesting that all business stops using them? All TV shows
have human images in them. Are you going to stop watching TV
so the rest of the world won't get pissed off? All women have
to stay home. Are you going go get the groceries? No women
may have medical care. Are you going to deliver your own babies?
Are you willing to watch somebody you love die because she is not
allowed to go to the doctor nor the hospital?
Which Islamic country are you using for your model here? Your description is
beyond even the Taliban-era Afghanistan.

OK. Assume that.

Why should we? That would be your problem, you make too many assumptions
without data, and assumptions combined with fear-mongering lead to some
pretty untenable scenarios. You assume that Bush has all the answers.

No, I do not assume that Bush has all the answers. I know that
the Republican party is the only politcal party in the United State
who is willing to do something about this threat to our
national security.
The threat is over hyped. Nothing that has happened since 2001 has made the
world safer. Saying "this is working" doesn't make it so.

Democrats don't want to talk about it; if
they don't talk about it, they cannot deal with it.
I dont know enough about American political infighting to respond to this.
However, If, as previously mentioned, the problem has existed for a century,
I suspect all parties are equally guilty of action / inaction.

The good thing is that the vast majority of people don't interpret
religious
texts literally. Yes, there is a fringe that do, and it is a
*vanishingly*
small fraction of the population

It is not a small fraction in Islam.
It _really_ is.

--let's call them "the wackos", for the sake
of brevity. In order for "the wackos" to do any harm, they have to
convince
a larger (but still relatively small) fraction of the population that
somebody has done them wrong, and they need to get revenge.

Sigh! In this day and age of technology, the extremists do not
have convince a large number. They can make a mess that will
cause a degeneration of all societies.
No it wont. Society exists without the trappings that you seem to want to
cling to. The rights and freedoms you enjoy are what the extremists dislike.
No matter how many bombs they detonate the only person who can lose them are
yourselves.

Let's call them
"the recruitees", for brevity. That's where we come in, since we
repeatedly
given "the wackos" good evidence to present to "the recruitees" that we
*have* done Muslim society wrong, and this gives "the wackos" a fantastic
recruiting tool to increase the ranks of "the recruitees". Invading Iraq
for absolutely no reason is an excellent example.

There was a reason. For you to say that there wasn't is foolish.
Yeah, but national security was not the reason.


What I'm saying is that maybe we
should stop running around the world like the arrogant jerks that we have
become, trying to shove *our* point of view down everybody else's throats.
You talk about being made to convert to Islam. Yes, that would be a
terrible thing. Don't you think that other societies might just think it
is
just as terrible to be forced to adopt *our* way of doing things? You and
I
may think that we live in the best society in the world (and I do happen
to
believe that, despite my desire to tweak it a little to make it more
world-friendly). But don't you think it is *incredibly* arrogant to
assume
it is what is best for everybody else?

You are mixing up our political form of government with Western
civilization. Yes, we are insisting that Western civilization
not be destroyed. The US is not insisting that the US Constitution
with its amendments be adopted by the rest of the world.
No amount of extremist bombings can repeal your constitution unless _you_
(American people) chose to allow it. Fear of the imaginary external threat
will cause more damage than some idiots with a bomb.

Since the factions are already killing each
other, what makes you think that they will stop killing and
murdering and destroying all infrastructure?

It's called a civil war.

Is it a civil war when the head of the most viscious is from
another country and working for an external terrorist organization
and funded and supplied by other countries?
Yes.

When we had our little in-house set-to 140 years
ago, what would have made you think that we would stop killing and
murdering
and destroying all infrastructure (and Sherman's march was pretty
terrifying, by all accounts)? I doubt if the rest of the world was
sitting
there quaking in their boots, worrying about when we were going to go
global
with our family dispute.

If we had had atomic bombs and TV satellites and airplanes and
small pox in tubes, they would have been quaking. Britain was
involved in aiding the South.
Still called a civil war though wasn't it?

The goal
is to destroy Western infrastructure.

Data please. It is incredibly arrogant of you to assume you know what
their
goal is.

Their target was the World Trade Center. World and Trade is
western civilization. Afghanistan was a small example of
kinds of things would not be allowed. All pictures are destroyed.
Extrapolating an assumption here.

Women can't be touched by doctors so they don't have access to
any medical services.
Cant be touched by _male_ doctors. In most islamic countries being a doctor
is one of the main occupation routes for women.

That's enough. Nobody tells me what to think. I definitely do not
allow any male to tell me what to think...especially a male because
they have nutty thinking.
What relevance is gender? It is normally assumed that women are more
reasonable when it comes to global politics. You disprove that stereotype.

that you're now off into fantasy land thinking up things that the Muslims
want to destroy. I thought I had you pegged for someone who looks at data
and evaluates the situation critically. Sorry to say, you appear to have
bought into Bush's rhetoric of fear to such an extent that you no longer
appear to be capable of that.

I merely listed what was eliminated in Afghanistan where this
extremism did become the political and economic power.
Yet it wasn't all eliminated. In Iran which had an Islamic extremist
revolution none of it was eliminated. Odd that, isn't it.

From this post, am I right in thinking your main worry is Extremists being
elected as the Government of the US?
 
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 21:29:15 +0100, "T Wake"
<usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
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On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 20:45:35 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
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On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:06:56 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:v673i2dusng3t5a82qt9hm7n8ve5p4t7ua@4ax.com...

---
"It" being radical Islam,

Radical Islam can't be described as having a "single unified goal."

---
I disagree. I think the single, unified goal would be the
acquisition of unlimited power.

Really? "Radical Islam" covers a variety of branches of Islam - which are
often at war with each other - yet you also think they have a unified
goal.
Interesting take.

---
I don't believe that their being at war with each other periodically
negates their collective desire to see the downfall of the west.

Aha, then you view all Christian nations as unified?
---
No. I view them as separate, but with Christianity in common.
---

We have a collective
desire to see the downfall of terrorism and we share a religion.
---
Yes.
---

Which group would get the unlimited power and why would the others (Shi'a
vs
Sunni for example) allow them to have it?

---
In the end, as in any war, to the victor goes the spoils.

Which is why they are not a unified group.
---
Agreed, but with the understanding that they have Islam in common.

It would be like a Venn diagram of two intersecting circles, where
the area in the intersect would be Islam.
---

How can a groups of organisations which have no single unified command or
structure have a single unified goal?

---
They all have the Koran, and the Koran advocates the vanquishing of
infidels. That's the single common goal. The rest of it is petty
in-squabbling for local acquisition of power.

Which is why they are not a unified group.
---
Agreed
---

Some radical Islamic groups which operate as Terrorist organisations in
Asia have
no interest in Global conversion.

---
But they still want power.

Which nation, religious group, company (etc) doesnt?

---
They all do, and rightly so. The problem that arises, though, is
when any entity seeks power beyond its needs.

Interesting. Who determines its needs?
---
It does.
---

Are the needs set for "today" or for future possibilities?
---
For today and for some time in the future.
---

Consider the human body; when in balance, a system where everything
in it is functioning for its own benefit as well as for the benefit
of the rest of the "team". But if any part of it starts getting
ideas about 'taking over', and puts those ideas into effect, then
the whole thing gets out of whack and we get sick. At that point,
it becomes the body's job to straighten out the offender and get
everything back on track. If it can't, it'll die.

Interesting and amusing analogy, but it implies all global nations work in
harmony for a single goal.
---
No, the implication is that they _should_.
---

They dont, and as a result who gets to decide if
a body part is out of whack?
---
Ideally, it would be some neutral oversight agency. An immune
system of sorts?
---

Taking this analogy to its limits - the US is a cancer cell which refuses to
abide with the wishes of the other body parts (UN).
---
The possibility also exists that the UN is flawed and the US must
fend for itself and find allies outside of that framework.
---

the goal, in my opinion, would be to
convert everyone to Islam and have them be subject to control by
Muslim jurists, the goal being total world domination by Islam.

Refusal to convert would result in death.

Ok. This is just your opinion though.

---
Well, no. The fate of infidels who fail to convert to Islam (not
just radical Islam either) is spelled out in the Koran and is
relegation to social insignificance, at best, for 'People of the
Book', and death for the rest of humanity.

Yet, as mentioned elsewhere, it is not as clear cut as this. Islamic
nations
tolerate Hindus for example.

---
Yes. It seems that nothing is ever really black and white. (Except,
perhaps, the statement that it seems that nothing is ever really
black and white. ;) )

Very true :)

Christianity does not tolerate unbelievers either. Papal bulls in the
tenth
century declared all non-Christians as subject to death on the whims of
their Christian lords.

---
I think, "Christianity used to not tolerate unbelievers either"
might be more accurate.

The interpretation of the book is all that has evolved. The hubris of man
means even devoutly religious people think the Word of God is fallible
enough that mere humans can redefine it. In the case of Christianity
believers have morphed from peace loving worshippers of a kind and
benevolent God, to violent, blood thirsty crusaders killing all that moved
and then on to the modern state of a mixture of tolerance and rhetoric.

What is to say Islam will not undergo the same metamorphosis?
---
I think it will.
---

I mean, no one
tries to kill Cathars any more do they? (Side note: Has the pope ever
rescinded the Papal Bull regarding them?)
---
Probably not. I believe it was only a few years ago that the Church
got around to accepting that the Earth's orbit is heliocentric.
---

Just as with Christianity, there are differences in how people interpret
their "rulebook."

---
Mostly true, I think, except for one branch of Cristianity, Roman
Catholicism, where the buck stops at the pope's desk.

Even then, some Catholic priests think that while they are not allowed to
marry or masturbate, it is perfectly legitimate to bugger choir boys.
---
Yes, but ask the Pope and he'll tell you that it's not.
---

Every person has to be responsible for their own actions - claiming they are
"forced to do it" by a book is (IMHO) insanity.
---
Agreed.
---

An equally valid opinion would be to
say the US has global world domination as it's goal.
It is after all only an opinion.

---
I think the US's actions speak otherwise in that, clearly, we have
no aspirations to Empire. Had we chosen to we could have kept
Germany and Japan after we beat them, but we didn't.

I think otherwise. The US has no aspirations to an empire in the form of
the
Nineteenth century European ones, I agree. However the US wants to have as
many nations as possible under its sphere of influence. That is an Empire.

---
What we want is an economically competitive planet with all nations
at peace and capable of determining their own futures.
Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be everyone's goal.

Again, all we are doing is debating an opinion which is based on our life
experienced and assesment of what information is available to us.

As I see, the US operates a variety of anti-competetive practices which
ensure American companys get a head start in the race.

I should, at this point, hightlight the fact I do not see this as "wrong."
I do think Empires come in many forms. The US occupation of Iraq for
instance has not opened it to global commerce.
---
It will have to eventually, so it's just a question of time.
---

Fortunately, we're the cops.

Here we disagree.
---
Do you disagree with the 'fortunately' part or the 'cops' part? ;)
---

Having said that, ultimately the police need to be answerable to the people
they police. The US is not answerable to anyone.
---
That's true, but we do have a Supreme court which is supposed to
determine the constitutionality of internal matters and a Congress
which is supposed to control how we play with the world.

Then there's the UN, LOL!

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

Who is this they of which you speak?

Islamic extremists. Bin Laden has declared it. Iran has
declared this goal. Clerics wish to remove all vestiges
of Western civilzation; this includes no freedom of the press,
TV and probably all computers (anything with a picture of a human
being), all women in chattel (this is 50% of the labor force),
public schools will shut down, private property will no longer
be allowed, banks will be closed so trade will have to revert
back to person-to-person bartering.
This is simply untrue.

Where did you get this idea ?

Graham
 
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
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In article <XdOdnQtNpOi5M7vYnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
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In article <Va9Vg.19654$Ij.16215@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:eg2paa$8qk_011@s829.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
The oddity of this, which I cannot find in past history, is that
the extremists are already doing this to themselves.

Oh, the innumeracy. At the rate that they're doing that, it will take
at
least an order of magnitude longer than all of recorded human history to
reach the stated endpoint. In the meantime, how about if we stop giving
them reasons to do so?

If you had your way, everybody would convert to Islam.

Sorry, where did that assumption come from?

You said to stop giving the extremists reasons; they expect
all to convert to Islam for the first step.
No, not all extremists. Some want Israel to cease to exist. They dont care
what religion the rest of the world is. Some want the US to not support
Isreal, they dont care what religion the country is.

Dont make sweeping assumptions about the enemy, it doesnt help.

OK.
Assume that. Since the factions are already killing each
other, what makes you think that they will stop killing and
murdering and destroying all infrastructure? The goal
is to destroy Western infrastructure.

Says who?

The extremists say so.

More importantly, whose goal is this? Is this _all_ "they" want to do?

Apparently. It does not appear that they've given any thought
to consequences of such destruction. In Egypt, the extremists
over the past century killed and had goals of being power.
When one of their members got into power, all of sudden this
member found that the ideals couldn't be implemented in real
life.
Which shows, the extremists are unlikly to be able to make any _real_
changes.

This means bridges,
roads, computers, any science results and their applications,
white collar jobs, blue collar jobs, manufacturing plants,
food processing plants, etc. Do I need to think of more to
list?

Well, no, but some supporting evidence of this being the "goal" of "them"
would be nice.

Afghanistan. All of Bin Laden's pronouncements. Wannabe clerics.
Kids go to school and are taught how to kill and maim rather than
reading and writing and science. The absence of any protests to
this kind of behaviour from the Islamic world.

Or doesn't actions in real life count as evidence?
Afghanistan is not a representative example of an Islamic nation. Bin Laden
is a person not a nation. Other Islamic nations did protest about
Afghanistan's descent. Islamic organisations make overt statements
disagreeing with terrorism. Saying "The absence of any protests to this kind
of behaviour from the Islamic world" is totally false.
 
"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:5h6fi25jcgfc0anscoeikfp66p3oqcch27@4ax.com...
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:47:21 +0200, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen"
frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> Gave us:

Oh "we" Got It - Problem it that the people that make decisions for "us"
all
have their own agenda; which does not involve more freedom and a better
life for
"us". It does for "them", though.


You're an idiot. Your header info proves it. What? Did Ericsson
charge you too much for service such that you have to declare death
on them? You are about as retarded as it gets, little boy.
How stupid are you?
 
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
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In article <sPGdnWtqqOyR7LrYRVnyrw@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"Ken Smith" <kensmith@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
news:eg72kt$a4m$4@blue.rahul.net...

When you go to war against a country, you
bomb its capital regardless of how large of a land mass the country
covers.

That would be great, but the terrorists aren't a country, and there is
no
capital.

This is (IMHO) the oddest thing about the jingoism over the "war on
terror."
People keep talking about bombing and invading, yet the list of countries
which would have to be bombed / invaded is ludicrous.

I had 12 countries on my list.
How many people will die in the bombing?

Somalia is apparently starting
to deal with its problems on its own, now that the Cold War
is out of their back yard.
Not in anything like a nice way.

Libya is acting a bit better.
I've heard rumors that Saudi Arabia is beginning a little bit.
I don't get much information from the fUSSR sections.
Yet, none of this change really required invasions and bombings.
 
((SNIPS FOR BREVITY))
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
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On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 21:29:15 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:3f5ai2la827940ak5b0vn7om58sbuoid1v@4ax.com...
I don't believe that their being at war with each other periodically
negates their collective desire to see the downfall of the west.

Aha, then you view all Christian nations as unified?

---
No. I view them as separate, but with Christianity in common.
---

We have a collective
desire to see the downfall of terrorism and we share a religion.

---
Yes.
But saying the shared belief in Islam unites the Islamic groups means the
shared Christianity should unite the west.

In the end, as in any war, to the victor goes the spoils.

Which is why they are not a unified group.

---
Agreed, but with the understanding that they have Islam in common.

It would be like a Venn diagram of two intersecting circles, where
the area in the intersect would be Islam.
They are still not unified enough to be viewed as working toward a common
goal. It is like saying the US, France and Chile have a unified aim.


They all do, and rightly so. The problem that arises, though, is
when any entity seeks power beyond its needs.

Interesting. Who determines its needs?

---
It does.
Which creates the logical problem of no entity declaring it's needs as being
fulfilled. All an entity needs to do to evade this problem is say its needs
are greater than before.

Are the needs set for "today" or for future possibilities?

---
For today and for some time in the future.
But they can be reset because they are self determined.

Consider the human body; when in balance, a system where everything
in it is functioning for its own benefit as well as for the benefit
of the rest of the "team". But if any part of it starts getting
ideas about 'taking over', and puts those ideas into effect, then
the whole thing gets out of whack and we get sick. At that point,
it becomes the body's job to straighten out the offender and get
everything back on track. If it can't, it'll die.

Interesting and amusing analogy, but it implies all global nations work in
harmony for a single goal.

---
No, the implication is that they _should_.
Yes they should. That would (IMHO obviously) require a larger organism for
the nations to be part of. As long as people of any denomination view others
as "different" this can not happen.

They dont, and as a result who gets to decide if
a body part is out of whack?

---
Ideally, it would be some neutral oversight agency. An immune
system of sorts?
It would require aliens.

Taking this analogy to its limits - the US is a cancer cell which refuses
to
abide with the wishes of the other body parts (UN).

---
The possibility also exists that the UN is flawed and the US must
fend for itself and find allies outside of that framework.
Who decides which is which?

What is to say Islam will not undergo the same metamorphosis?

---
I think it will.
I argee. People become too fixated on the past to see that things change.

I mean, no one
tries to kill Cathars any more do they? (Side note: Has the pope ever
rescinded the Papal Bull regarding them?)

---
Probably not. I believe it was only a few years ago that the Church
got around to accepting that the Earth's orbit is heliocentric.
Sadly possibly true.

Just as with Christianity, there are differences in how people interpret
their "rulebook."

---
Mostly true, I think, except for one branch of Cristianity, Roman
Catholicism, where the buck stops at the pope's desk.

Even then, some Catholic priests think that while they are not allowed to
marry or masturbate, it is perfectly legitimate to bugger choir boys.

---
Yes, but ask the Pope and he'll tell you that it's not.
But as with most things, people dont ask permission constantly. Islamic
terrorists are working on a subset interpretation of the Koran.

Again, all we are doing is debating an opinion which is based on our life
experienced and assesment of what information is available to us.

As I see, the US operates a variety of anti-competetive practices which
ensure American companys get a head start in the race.

I should, at this point, hightlight the fact I do not see this as "wrong."
I do think Empires come in many forms. The US occupation of Iraq for
instance has not opened it to global commerce.

---
It will have to eventually, so it's just a question of time.
Yes. Eventually the British Empire was broken up, as was the Roman, the
Macedonian, the Persian etc. It is always a question of time.

Fortunately, we're the cops.

Here we disagree.

---
Do you disagree with the 'fortunately' part or the 'cops' part? ;)
Both :) If you are the cops I disagree with "fortunately" - but in advance
I disagree with being the cops :)

Having said that, ultimately the police need to be answerable to the
people
they police. The US is not answerable to anyone.

---
That's true, but we do have a Supreme court which is supposed to
determine the constitutionality of internal matters and a Congress
which is supposed to control how we play with the world.
Yet, I have no say over the US Congress so, still, the World Police is not
answerable to the people it "protects."

Then there's the UN, LOL!
Sadly. Nice idea though.
 
lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:

I give up--I was wrong. You weren't sincere when you said you examine your
assumptions. You don't even admit what assumptions you make, and what
political filter you put information through. You're no worse than the
other knee-jerk reactionaries on either side of this thread. If you are the
future of the political process in this country, we are in real trouble.

Just a hint, though...you might want to try having conversations with actual
mainstream Middle Eastern Muslims, rather than reading some right-wing
claptrap written to justify the US's current bad behavior and applying it to
all of Muslim society.
The problem is that the above kind of thought is now being branded as traitorous
in the USA.

Graham
 
T Wake wrote:

Still, it is amazing how well he managed to get rid of the evidence
come the invasion. If only he had used that skill for the UN
inspectors the war would never have happened.
Yes.

And a slighter tread, in the time of invasion. Attack is Attack, let's
say it is so, but the actions taken contradict any American thinking.

With cannons on sparrows!



Best regards,

Daniel Mandic
 
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:52:29 +0100, "T Wake"
<usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> Gave us:

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
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On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:05:42 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> Gave us:


"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:peb8i2lf4af0irq171tqukscc9n0lec541@4ax.com...
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 21:51:21 GMT, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com
wrote:

In article <HLVUg.13315$7I1.5654@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


I don't care. If you're listening to a phone call to which the phone
in
my
living room is party, then as a citizen of the US, I demand that your
listening be carried out according to my Constitutional rights.

Probably is. Under a warrant for a phone anything that goes on over
that phone is legally admissable, even if the other person's phone
doesn't have a warrant on it. It well settled that as long as one phone
is legally tapped, any phone that calls it or is called by it is fair
game. Since there are no restrictions on tapping a phone outside of the
country, it would be legal tap. Thus anyone the phone calls or anyone
who calls the phone could be listened to as noted. Would be a rather
interesting case to make.

And it varies state-by-state... it is legal in Arizona to record all
calls on your own phone, _without_ notifying the other party.

All I need to do is push a button ;-)


It is good that you have these loopholes to circumvent civil liberties.

Fuck you, asswipe!

You are such a wizard with words.

I *SHOULD* have the right to record ANY call that
is passed on MY phone, and buyer beware to all that call it or speak
to me on it.

Your logic is flawed. As you have the IQ of a flea there is no point trying
to discuss the finer points of this with you.

As if anything you ever did or said was fine in any way.

You lose.
 
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 17:05:44 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> Gave us:

I give up--I was wrong.

Top posting Usenet RETARD! Bone up on the forums you invade!
 
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:13:31 +0100, "T Wake"
<usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> Gave us:

It is ok, it was an imaginary elephant. In the real world, imaginary things
cant hurt you. As an aside, I know what imaginary numbers *are* and I also
know there is no way *you* are juggling them.
I say again. You *know* nothing. You certainly know no such thing
as any of the things which you have said about me.
 
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:13:31 +0100, "T Wake"
<usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> Gave us:

You are possibly one of the more idiotic people who posts on USENET. I am
surprised you aren't a regular on sci.physics along with all the other
semi-literate cranks. Do you have some theories of your own on the mass of a
photon or two-way light speed or any of the other crankbait topics?
You're an idiot. It is well known how stupid you are in that group
as well.

I have read there for years and posted there as well. You are an
idiot.
Actually, I probably know the answer to that.
Again, you do not *know* anything.

You don't have any ideas of
your own.
Sure. My ideas are practical, however. Yours are closer to that of
the idiot, "Gravity Physics".
 
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:16:52 +0100, "T Wake"
<usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> Gave us:

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:jv4fi2dv8pn3rk9ii4b82fh6g89ikgcao2@4ax.com...
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 10:05:23 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> Gave us:


"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:sludi21v218aau83uue1nhpk001333skb4@4ax.com...
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 19:26:17 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> Gave us:

Sadly, you are a...

Sadly, you are still no more than an idiot.

IKYABWAI.

Even being an idiot I am orders of magnitude above you.

Only on the idiot ranking board.

Yeah, you aren't even very good as an idiot.

The higher you are on the board, the more of an idiot you are,
idiot. That would make YOU the more idiotic.

Got clue?
 
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:53:52 +0100, "T Wake"
<usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> Gave us:

In the seventies I was busy
fighting terrorists
Doubtful, pussy.
 
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 10:57:34 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> Gave us:

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:16:32 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:


lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:6JQVg.14045$7I1.5221@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:jt4fi2hpqhls5ujcahaasrq2jvcle25rhe@4ax.com...
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 21:59:40 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> Gave us:

Yep. And isn't it also ironic that the ouster of those very commies has
been one of the destabilizing forces in the world that may well have
furthered the current mess?


You're an idiot.

Ya gotta love his nuanced and repetitive view of the world, ladies and
gentlemen.

He has made a lot of posts, he must be getting to the limit of words he can
use. This explains the repeating cycles.


But he regularly changes his nym, and gets to start afresh.
That doesn't make him any less an idiot.
 
In article <eg827f$8qk_004@s968.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In article <5dfVg.62$45.46@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <eg2paa$8qk_011@s829.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In article <PsRUg.57$45.150@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <4523844C.CA22EFDF@hotmail.com>, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:


mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

In article <4522F8DE.C46161BD@hotmail.com>, Eeyore writes:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

You didn't read carefully. It is not "10% changing". It is that
historical data indicates dramatic changes when about 10% of the
population is *dead*. Does this make it clear?

So, we only need to kill 100 million Muslims or so ?

I didn't say, at the moment, what we need (or need not) to do. I
pointed what empirical data for past conflicts shows. Go argue with
history if you don't like it.

But you still mainatain we'd need to kill that many to have an effect ?

Graham

Not that "we'd need" but that, as a worst case scenario, we may need.

The oddity of this, which I cannot find in past history, is that
the extremists are already doing this to themselves.

It is not that odd. Extremists are striving for a very high degreee
of coherence, in their own camp. This involves "purifying" your side
from "dubious elements".

This is premature viewing and we won't know until 10-80 years from
now but...

It seems like they are not purifying but self-emolating.
Bah, you need some sense of scale. Check out how many Russians were
eliminated by Stalin, and how many Chinese by Mao. No, they're most
certainly ***not*** self-emolating. They're "cleaning the ranks".

Isn't there a difference? This self-emolation as part of their
ritual practice is what seems odd.
There is nothing to seem odd, since they're not doing it.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
 
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 20:13:25 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:

I give up--I was wrong. You weren't sincere when you said you examine your
assumptions. You don't even admit what assumptions you make, and what
political filter you put information through. You're no worse than the
other knee-jerk reactionaries on either side of this thread. If you are the
future of the political process in this country, we are in real trouble.

Just a hint, though...you might want to try having conversations with actual
mainstream Middle Eastern Muslims, rather than reading some right-wing
claptrap written to justify the US's current bad behavior and applying it to
all of Muslim society.

The problem is that the above kind of thought is now being branded as traitorous
in the USA.
Absurd. American newspapers, public forums, political parties, and
public institutions are full of different opinions, vigorously and
publicly stated. A very few people call the opinions of other to be
traitorous, and that's allowed free speech, too.

You say so much about the USA and you know so little.

John
 
John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 20:13:25 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:

I give up--I was wrong. You weren't sincere when you said you examine your
assumptions. You don't even admit what assumptions you make, and what
political filter you put information through. You're no worse than the
other knee-jerk reactionaries on either side of this thread. If you are the
future of the political process in this country, we are in real trouble.

Just a hint, though...you might want to try having conversations with actual
mainstream Middle Eastern Muslims, rather than reading some right-wing
claptrap written to justify the US's current bad behavior and applying it to
all of Muslim society.

The problem is that the above kind of thought is now being branded as traitorous
in the USA.

Absurd. American newspapers, public forums, political parties, and
public institutions are full of different opinions, vigorously and
publicly stated. A very few people call the opinions of other to be
traitorous, and that's allowed free speech, too.

You say so much about the USA and you know so little.
So why are the Republicans branding criticism as treasonous ?

Graham
 

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