Jihad needs scientists

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:11:58 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:03:17 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Which one would that be, the dangers of driving on the nation's highways?
That's at least 3 orders of magnitude greater of a real threat to every
person in the country than is terrorism.

3000 people died at the WTC

And you still haven't got over it.
---
And a lot of Jews haven't gotten over Auschwitz either. Is that a
bad thing?


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:1u6di25hijpgd7etrd6oijm11rb4066dvi@4ax.com...
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:03:20 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



John Fields wrote:

Do you know when the next strike is going to occur and who the
perpetrators will be?

No-ordinary person does although our police here seem to be on the case.
That's their job.

---
See? That's part of the behind-the-scenes work that they do that
keeps that crap from happening. The "secret" work that you
pooh-poohed as 'madness'.
No, the madness that he pooh-poohed was the shenanigans in Iraq. Nobody is
arguing that nothing is being done to combat the terrorists, which was a
completely separate issue until the terrorists decided to go to Iraq after
we chose to attack it for no good reason.

Eric Lucas
 
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4525A639.EB274643@hotmail.com...
T Wake wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote

What does the USA get out of it ? Apart from terrorist attacks
?

Well, my personal feeling is that changing your foreign policy
as
the result of terrorist attacks is _always_ wrong.

You'd be insane to ignore the reasons !

What reasons?

If you mean countries should adjust their policy at the whim of
bombers then I hope you never run for political office.

Like I said. You'd be insane not to consider the why of it.

Sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean the "why of it?"

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it.

Why would ppl want to bomb us ?

Because some people are bad.

Sure but WHY ? Even bad ppl need some kind of reason !
I learned physics at university not psychology so I am in no place to answer
this question.

However, the fact remains that sometimes people do bad things to other
people with out any _apparent_ just cause. Attempting to establish a prime
cause is often a fruitless task.

Then in this line, you think it is possible to be in a situation where
other
people
would not want to bomb us because ( I assume) we [tinw] are so good and
nice.

Until we got into the Iraq war they *didn't* !
Not true. British interests have been the subject of Islamic extremist
attacks for quite some time. However that is a moot point. I wasn't talking
about Islamic Extremists there, other people of all political and religious
persuasions may harbour ill will.

In global politics it is never going to be possible to not offend
someone.
Ever.

For sure. But there are degrees of pissing ppl off.
Again, I dont think this matters. You may think Policy X is fair, as long as
Unbalanced Kook Y thinks it isn't then you may have monumentally pissed him
off.

We are a democracy, if people dont like our foreign policies then they have
the chance to change them in a fair and open matter.

If the person who doesn't like our policy finds they are unable to change it
in the fair and open manner, then resorts to violence they are a criminal
and a terrorist. There is no legitimacy for it.

When that someone turns out to be mad, the risk of them retaliating is
high.

Take this example. Dispute between country A and country B. Superpower A
is
asked to help solve the dispute. Citizens of country B feel Superpower A
went against their best interests and bomb Superpower A a bit.

Superpower A, thinks I don't want to be bombed and changes its policy.

Now Country A (quite rightly) gets offended. Fortunately for them, the
precedence has been set and they bomb Superpower A for a while.

Superpower A, thinks I don't want to be bombed and changes its policy.

Can you see where this is heading?

Changing the policy of a democratically elected government in response to
violence or the threats of violence is (IMHO obviously) madness.

What if the policy was fundamentally wrong in the first place ?
Who get to make that judgement call? International policy will always be
wrong in some one's view.

Are we not to
revise it for fear of being seen 'weak' ?
Personally, I would suggest that if the policy _is_ fundamentally wrong than
the open democratic process will enable a change. If one side has to resort
to terror to gain concessions, I suspect it wasn't fundamentally wrong in
the first place.
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:bidci2lho69iqnrplu1ekac0eecmme93d6@4ax.com...
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:55:57 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



T Wake wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote

Israel can only 'win' by erasing Lebanon.

Is that what you want ?

What alternative do they have? Until the Palestinians and Arabs can
accept
Israel's existence, Israel can not hold off on its defensive posture.

Do you advocate Israel surrender?

Many Arab nations have sorted this one out. We really do need to bash the
Israeli and Palestinian heads together.

---
This from a person who professes not to advocate violence.
"Bashing heads together" (even in its non-metaphorical use) is not the same
as advocating missile strikes on countries which are _suspected_ of having
people who support terrorists living there.
 
"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:jj8bi2120tk92eg3el475f66v1p5sa946k@4ax.com...
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 10:45:39 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:47:30 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



John Fields wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
T Wake wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:

The same reason unthinking Muslims support groups considered
terrorist by
the west.

Is Hezbollah a terrorist organisation ?

If you are asking my opinion..... then yes. A nasty, ruthless one.
However
sometimes terrorists seem to come in from the cold.

That's the point at which they've won.

Looks like they won in that case.

---
A skirmish, perhaps, but not the war.

Israel can only 'win' by erasing Lebanon.

---
Trying to set up another straw man?
---

Is that what you want ?

---
Nope, but since you state that that's the only way Israel can win,
it seems that if you don't want Israel destroyed, that's what
_you're_ advocating.

In reality, though, your preferred "solution" would be to see Israel
("The Real Demon" according to you) destroyed, and yet you pretend
to advocate non-violence.

How can you reconcile that hypocrisy?


I can't wait to see this one get answered.

I'll bet he dodges it.

Hey! Donkey boy! We don't want the polygraph answer, donkey boy...
We want the long, technical response.

That is... if you have the character for it.

You already lost any honor you ever had.

Good one, John.
Sadly, you are a drooling sycophant and do more harm for the people you
profess to support in an argument than you do to the "other side."
 
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:48:37 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

T Wake wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message

What does the USA get out of it ? Apart from terrorist attacks ?

Well, my personal feeling is that changing your foreign policy as the
result of terrorist attacks is _always_ wrong.

You'd be insane to ignore the reasons !


The US has recognised the right of the State of Israel to exist. Why should
they stop supporting them? Supporting Israel to simply get at the Arabs is
wrong, but why stop supporting an otherwise closely allied country?

The USA didn't give a shit about Israel until the 60s.
---
So that means we shouldn't give a shit about them now?


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:50:06 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

T Wake wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
John Fields wrote:

Graham was pooh-poohing Gordon's claim that there's a process going
on to end terrorism, and I was pointing out that Graham has no clue
about what's being done in secret, just like most of the rest of us.

You have to be mad to think "anything is going on in secret" except more
stupidity.

But you have no way of knowing that.

Why else would the USA be blundering from one failure to the next ?

Even the best plans fail.

And useless ones never stand a chance.
---
Ah, if only your mother had known that...



--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:53:49 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Do you personally know anyone who doesn't carry some form of
identification?

What do you call a " form of identification " ?

It's not compulsory to carry a driving licence with you in the UK and I don't.
---
What do you use for identification when you use a credit card or
cash a check?


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:2o6bi2ttekkan84qullno6ils8pnnmgdf1@4ax.com...
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:21:31 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:g9c8i29evm2kjknll6i0e1ske20ourmbk6@4ax.com...
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:51:08 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



John Fields wrote:

I think the US's actions speak otherwise in that, clearly, we have
no aspirations to Empire.

" the Project for the New American Century is a non-profit, educational
organization
whose goal is to promote American global leadership "

http://www.newamericancentury.org/aboutpnac.htm


Had we chosen to we could have kept
Germany and Japan after we beat them, but we didn't.

The *USA* didn't beat them and they weren't yours to keep.

---
We sure as hell did, and they were spoils of war, to do with as we
saw fit.

And you did. You held on to Japan for quite some time, and ensured the
previous government system was never going to be returned.

---
Yes, and it's worked out quite well for everyone concerned, I
believe.
A philosophical judgement call.

When you say everyone you obviously don't include the Japanese ruling
classes who lost power, so everyone is a misnomer.

You say well, because the country has moved closer to what _your_ country
sees as the ideal social / economic structure.

Also, there is no way of knowing that the previous government wouldn't have
been able to progress the country to a "better place" under it's own steam.
Pretty much every country (with the exception of the US) has grown through
stages of monarchies and despotisms into open and fair democracies. Even the
Russians managed to grow into a democracy without an invasion.

Assuming the current US model is indeed the "gold standard," then at best
you can say you accelerated the Japanese progress in that direction, but you
have no way of knowing what (if any) lingering resentment at a lack of self
determination will grow in the coming decades or centuries.

History is full of examples showing countries forced into alien governmental
structures break up violently eventually. (Middle East is a prime example,
we [tinw] forced nationhood onto disparate, nomadic tribes, and now we
[tinw] are surprised they bomb everyone).

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying, I don't doubt that Japan is a
"better" society now than during the imperial days - however, I also don't
think that is means it is better for everyone or that I have the final say
on what is a good society and what isn't.
 
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4525A7DD.C6B548A1@hotmail.com...
T Wake wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:

Military Police patrolling civilian towns is not normal... The fact
the idea was even suggested is shocking and I am ex-Army.

What was the idea behind the use of MPs ?

Civilian police were too undermanned to provide a suitable presence at
weekends and it was thought that most of the drinkers would be local
soldiers.

I can see the logic in that.

Possibly. It is wrong though. If you were a local civilian caught up in
it,
how would you feel being arrested by Military Police?

I'd have thought they would only have the right to arrest soldiers. I
imagine
they might detain civilians until the regular police could arrive.
They dont know you are a soldier until after they have arrested you and
confirmed your identity. Soldiers were civilian clothes off duty (thanks to
the IRA threat).

Having said that, I have no idea how they were planning to resolve the
practicalities so I can't really comment any more.
 
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:05:42 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

JoeBloe wrote:

Yes. The difference between little London streets and the
metropolises contained in this country are vast.
There would be double decker spill overs everywhere. Most places
wouldn't support them at all due to the way our traffic light/power
line systems are strung.

So, if our double deckers work fine on our 'little London streets' how are they going
to have a problem on big American ones ?
---
The steering wheel is on the wrong side.


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:09:30 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Daniel Mandic wrote:

John Fields wrote:

My reference to not speaking English as a first language was a
euphemism for being conquered, which was related to an earlier post
by Graham stating that had the US not become involved in WW2,
England and Germany might have teamed up to fight Russia after
Germany double-crossed Russia. In my opinion that would have been
suicide for England, as depleted as it would have been, when Russia
came rolling in to get Germany.

So yes, the question was loaded, but it wasn't Monday morning
quarterbacking. Monday morning quarterbacking would have been more
like: "If only Germany had done thus and such, she would have won."

What things do you write about. My dear, your insights of the Human
history is reduced to a period of 7 years, yes?

C'mon, let's get some million years back.....
---
What the fuck are you talking about, Mandic?
---

America's only got a couple of hundred years of history.

It makes them dizzy thinking much further back.
---
Hell, it makes you lot dizzy thinking about America!


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
<lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
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"Homer J Simpson" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
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"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
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Before Hitler - no holocaust.

After Hitler - no holocaust.

Wow. Before [Insert anyone who lived between 1930 - 1945] no holocaust.
After [same person] no holocaust.

So you see no connection between Hitler and the holocaust.

I see a connection but the same connection can be said about many people.
Your example was meant to imply that Hitler was the sole driving force
for the Holocaust. This is not the case.

Sure, there were other forces. Yes, there was plenty of anti-Jewish
sentiment in Germany around then. The economy was still in the toilet
from the Great Depression, but it's not clear to me that the average
German blamed the Jews--even if so, I suspect not anywhere near the way
Hitler did.
It wasn't just the Jews either. Lots of minority groups got persecuted.

However, don't you think it really required a charming (in a Germanic sort
of way) misanthropic psychopath with a *serious* chip on his shoulder
about the Jews, to whip everybody into a "the Jews caused *all* of your
problems" frenzy so they could put aside their personal revulsion at
eventually killing millions of their fellow human beings? I guess there
could have been another person that combined that level of insanity,
misanthropy, megalomania, cunning, opportunity and charm, but I'd be
really surprised.
Most of Hitler's inner-circle we pretty much in that mould. Hitler made use
of very advanced PR techniques, I am sure others could have.

Granted Hitler did have (somehow) the Charisma required by the German
populace at the time, but I strongly doubt that removing him at any time
_after_ he had got into power would have changed events for the better.

Removing him _before_ he did anything bad may have changed things, but I
very much doubt it would have resulted in no Holocaust (maybe a different
ethnic group would have got the brunt of the blame), or diverted WWII from
starting. WWI was never, properly, finished.
 
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:11:01 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:

"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote

I see terrorist attack doesn't make the top twenty then :) That war on
tobacco really needs to get started soon.

It has, thankfully. Most major cities in the US ban tobacco use in public
places, and several states are considering state-wide bans. Still perfectly
legal at home and in most places outdoors, but at least I can eat dinner in
a restaurant without smoke making me physically ill.

I can barely wait for the UK law banning smoking in public places to come into
effect. It'll be so much nicer.
---
The last time my wife came back from the UK she said she couldn't
believe how much you people smoke. How much do you all smoke?


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:14:28 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Homer J Simpson wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote

WhY? just look to the weird people there, buying claims on the moon. I
believe you could defent taht claims, but that shows even more that the
pure moron is found in the United States of America.

You're *so* right !

No, but I do think that the inhabitants of the US are the most gullible
people on earth. Odd, because with so much deceptive advertising and often
outright lying in advertising you'd think they would be immune to BS.

Apparently ppl actually fall in love with the BS !
---
If that were true you could probably be our next president!


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ujcci217bem3v076krjqajp1hjr5370m9n@4ax.com...
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:46:14 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



Homer J Simpson wrote:

"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message

I'm saying that if someone threatens their fundamental freedoms, the
British public will defend them.

Hopefully.

I grow less and less sure of this as I watch public debate each day.

A mistake Hitler made. He read reports of pacifist debates in the UK and
assumed they were a guide to the lack of response to be expected during
an
attack on Britain.

The British Air Force response showed him the error of his ways.

The Royal Air Force to be entirely accurate but yes, we were certainly far
from unready. In fact Britain's armaments industry had been working hard
in
the years preceding WW2 to make the planes ( and other stuff ) we knew we
were going to need.

---
And yet, had we not come to your rescue, you'd be dog meat today.
Assumption. Granted it is about 99.9% probable that without American
involvement in WWII the end would have been different and the Map of Europe
in 1945 would have looked different, but assuming that the US were the only
thing which prevented Germany destroying the UK is unsupported.

As an aside, the Americans never "came to our rescue." We had to sacrifice a
large proportion of our population and some wonderful cities before the
Germans decided it would not be possible to gain air superiority and, as a
result the invasion had to be put on indefinite hold. After this happened,
America got involved and mainly for reasons which suited themselves (Note: I
am not saying that is a BADTHING(tm)).
 
"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:c2fci252bbadleojqridu5hhpu2o03m460@4ax.com...
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 11:54:29 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> Gave us:



John Fields wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Homer J Simpson wrote:
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message

I'm saying that if someone threatens their fundamental freedoms,
the
British public will defend them.

Hopefully.

I grow less and less sure of this as I watch public debate each
day.

A mistake Hitler made. He read reports of pacifist debates in the UK
and
assumed they were a guide to the lack of response to be expected
during an
attack on Britain.

The British Air Force response showed him the error of his ways.

The Royal Air Force to be entirely accurate but yes, we were certainly
far
from unready. In fact Britain's armaments industry had been working
hard in
the years preceding WW2 to make the planes ( and other stuff ) we knew
we
were going to need.

---
And yet, had we not come to your rescue, you'd be dog meat today.

A ridiculous idea. We won the Battle of Britain and Germany knew it
couldn't
invade without air superiority.


All of Europe would have been toast without us... including you,
chump.
Nice one. When are you doing a tour of comedy clubs?

Mainland Europe _was_ toast.
 
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4525D591.177CE2D7@earthlink.net...
T Wake wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:45258DFB.BBB5B87C@earthlink.net...
T Wake wrote:

Yes.

Are you struggling with the word choice?


I have no problems with it, but you seem to.


Really.

Let us review the information.

I object to being _forced_ to carry an ID card.

You respond with comments about my driving licence - which is based on a
_choice_ I made.

Can you explain to me where _I_ have the problem understanding the word
use?
I cant really see it.


So, you don't carry anything else? No ATM card, credit cards,
membership cards? An insurance card so you don't die while waiting for
the hospital to make sure they will be paid for their services?
I feel like I am stuck in a time warp here.

I went for a jog today and I carried no cashpoint card, no driving licence,
no membership card, no credit card.

Each day (or when I can be bothered), I choose what I will carry with me.

Being _forced_ to carry an ID card is a different matter. Do you see this?

If compulsory ID cards were in force and I had been stopped out jogging, I
would have broken the law and been subject to arrest. That is not a choice
in _any_ dictionary I have ever come across. Do you have a different one?

Now, back to the question which you so deftly ignored Can you explain to me
where _I_ have the problem understanding the word [choice] use?
 
"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kurtullman-F089CF.08100906102006@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx...
In article <4525DA2C.7CFA4E5E@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

So, you don't carry anything else?...........
.........An insurance card so you don't die while waiting for
the hospital to make sure they will be paid for their services?

You really don't know much about the UK do you ?

Medical services are free.

You pay for them through taxes (among other ways). They ain't free no
matter what the politicians tell you.
Ok, free at the point of sale.
 
<lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
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lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
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lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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Not sure about spelling, but I've read some very well-researched
serious scholarly linguistic articles that say that the British
English accent at the time of the American colonies was very much
closer to the current New England accent than to the current variety
of British accents. It seems speech in the "colonies" was and is much
more conservative than speech in the mother land. I don't remember
what their evidence was, there are obviously no audio tapes to
compare.

It has the potential (and that dreaded "ring of truth") however the
reality is possibly very, very far from the case.

Both sets of languages have had an equal time to "evolve" into their
current form. The US has been much more influenced by immigrant
linguistics over that period than England has, so I am inclined to
doubt the validity of the claim.

I suspect both languages are equally distant from the English spoken in
(say) 1775.

Yeah, I know, those were all *exactly* the same response I had when I
first heard the thesis. But I do remember that the evidence was
convincing. Dammit all, I wish I could remember where I read/saw that.
I don't expect you to take my word for it, but to me, it really was more
convincing than I've managed to convey.

It would be interesting to see it.

Some linguists even interpret the shifts in England as related to
blueblood Londoners putting on airs, and that accent subsequently
catching on in other parts of the country. I suspect this last part
is a bit of a stretch, but the whole thing is an interesting thesis.
I find it fascinating to think about how people spoke in the past, and
how language has evolved. Puts a whole new perspective in the various
new inner-city lexicons and pronunciations that have developed, even
in my lifetime.

Languages evolve all the time. Welsh is a good example.

Yep, that's what I find so fascinating. So, did Welsh get all the extra
consonants that would otherwise have gone with the vowels ("u") you
English stole? :^)


Yes. It is even funnier listening to their conversation because all the
modern words are in English. So you get "bable bable Television bable
bable microwave cooker bable bable" and so on.


Kind of like reading a Korean/Japanese/Chinese chemistry patent. A lot of
stuff that looks like Martian (for all I know), interspersed with chemical
names.
LOL, I can imagine. I still get that feeling when I read physics
texts.......... (I really was a bad student).
 

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