Jihad needs scientists

In article <efr837$sb7$3@blue.rahul.net>, kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) writes:

In article <c7WdncygLPPv3r3YRVnytQ@pipex.net>,
T Wake <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
[...]
The western world bandies the term "war" around much too easily. (War on
Terror, War on Drugs, War on Obesity etc.)

It is time for a war on the improper use of the term "war on".

I'll second that

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:26:53 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

T Wake wrote:

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message

There wasn't such thing as a coherent "Axis" in 1939-40.

So what? WWII wasn't fought against a coherent Axis.

Nor is there such a thing as a coherent Al Qaeda either.

---
Nor, does it seem, that you've been able to master coherence.


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Homer J Simpson]

<lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:GreUg.962$NE6.715@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

Yes, and what details were left of out the other anecdote that hide the
"whole story"? Once you start to see the actual details, you can
understand rather than simply label and refuse to understand. I'm not
saying the other incident wasn't a case of racism, it may well have
been...I'm just saying that the anecdote, as written, did not "prove" that
racism is rampant in the US, as the poster appeared to intend.

List some other countries where a man of one race was murdered men of
another by being dragged to death behind a truck.

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

In article <efr7vg$sb7$2@blue.rahul.net>, kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) writes:
In article <2p1Ug.16$45.152@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote:
[....]
Well, here is at least one thing you can say for Al Queda. They are
quite honest, no pretending.

Maybe, they are just more effective liars. If you haven't caught them in
a lie, it doesn't mean there weren't lies they got away with.

Oh, I'm sure there were some, but these are what is called "tactical
lies". With regard to principal matters, i.e. their goals, they're
quite forthcoming. Just as Hitler was.

The whole idea that they have anything to do with any form of Islam may
well be a lie.

I wouldn't quite say so. The only operational answer to the question
"what does a given religion say and command" is "what its adherents
believe it says and commands". Given enough preachers stating "this
is what the religion commands" and enough believers accepting it,
"this" becomes the reality. And they do have a lot to do with
Wahabism, which is the form of Islam common in the Saudi peninsula.

They can get lots of cannonfodder from the Muslim world
may be the reason they try to appear Islamist. It may really be about
power and control.

One doesn't contradict the other one. People may be driven by the
desire for power and control *and* to really, truly believe in what
they're doing (to the point of willing to die for it), at the same time.

In our "goody-goody" western upbringing we're conditioned to believe
that only "good people" (where "good" means "good by our standards")
are motivated by ideals while "bad" (again, by our standards) people
are motivated solely by selfish desires, for wealth, power and the
like. It ain't so. There is no doubt that many of the top Nazis
truly believed in the righteousness of their cause. When the day of
reckoning came, many of them preferred to kill themselves rather than
live in a world where their ideals have been defeated. Goebbels and
his wife poisoned themselves and all their kids as well. If that's
not an act of a true believer, I don't know what is.

So, disconcerting as the notion may be, the people "on the other side"
may be just as commited to their ideals as we're to ours. Possibly
more so. It'll be a grave error to underestimate them and assume that
it is not so.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

If Hitler had won there wouldn't be a Muslim problem.
Nor a Middle East one...
Makes one pine for 'the good old days' eh?...

--
Dirk

http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM

 

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news0s2i29f9irau7e0l757mj96qfqormsp1r@4ax.com...

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 19:45:32 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
news:hJqdncTbXv4vw7zYRVnyrQ@pipex.net...

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:cdg2i2d2f8fo15gn34hn1ajoplsrj5eu46@4ax.com...

What is your street address? I have some buddies at Ohio State that
are just drooling for the chance to "meet" you ;-)

You are funny guy. Do you really have buddies or are they just made up
to
try and make you look good?

I have to say most people I've known associated with OSU over the past 25
years are very hard-working, pretty much mind their own business, and
don't
go around threatening to beat somebody up just because they disagree on
politics...in a word, mature. (Well, OK, there was that couch incident,
but
it was MICHIGAN, after all. Oh, and what I say doesn't apply to Maurice
Clarett, either--he's an idiot.)

You missed my "meat" pun ?

Umm...I guess I must have. My interpretation was that it meant "to make
minced-meat out of". Please forgive (and correct) me if that is not what
you meant.

Eric Lucas

 

In article <efr907$sb7$5@blue.rahul.net>, kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) writes:

In article <XxYTg.5$45.149@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote:
[....]
Criminals are people who are motivated by self interest and can be
deterred by sufficiently reducing the chance of profit.

No, criminals are people who commit crimes. Their have been some who have
done so for nonprofit and in a few cases nonselfish reasons. They are
still none the less criminals. Consider the example of someone who gives
LSD to minors because it "expands their mind". Such a person is still a
criminal.

And, they're
parasites on the society, not trying to destroy it, just milk it.

They may in many cases really be trying to destroy it. Simply "milking
it" may not be their aim at all. They may see themselves as trying to
reform it or improve it.


The
Islamic terrorists aim at destruction of the western society and
you're not going to deter them because there is no deterring people
who already decided that they don't care whether they live or die.

Actually that is not true. Deterring people is about placing a treat
against what they value. You may be able to deter many of them with the
threat that if there is another attack, we will nuke Meca.

This, in fact, may work. We didn't get to this stage yet, but we may.

But this level of deterrence is in the province of war, not police
action.

They also very likely would fear being held in prison for life.

This may be so but the technique of carrying poison on yourself at all

times, so as to prevent the possibility of being taken alive is known
for a long time. BTW, the fact that their leaders didn't adapt it yet
is encouraging, in a way.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:31:06 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:02:37 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Really? What sort of smut does he specialize in? Probably the
non-procreative British kind.

John

Probably ;-)

What's procreation got to do with it ? Never heard of contraceptives in Arizona ?

---
Ermmm...

I think they're talking about buggery, Graham.

You know, the way you were conceived, which proves that nothing's
100% for sure.


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Eeyore]

John Fields wrote:

We're not
here to appease a bunch of thugs who want nothing less than to take
over the world for their own perverted ends

Since that won't happen what are you so worried about.

You're legitimising the thugs by taking them so seriously.

Graham

 

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:cct2i212ak2vq714ussr88s3f1tb2kram9@4ax.com...

We have our rude cities... NYC and Boston come to mind, though Boston
has gotten much better in recent years.

When I was in grad school in the late 80s, I struck up an unusual friendship
with my 80-year old crusty born-and-bred Bostonian landlord. He once
confided in me that, when he was younger, Boston was a much more pleasant
city to live and especially drive in. His take was that their economic
success in the 60s - 80s lead to a large influx of non-Bostonians. I have
experienced this before, and it does tend to make a place much less
friendly, since the populace has fewer emotional ties to the area, and thus
less interest in making it a pleasant place to be. That, and maybe the
Boston press have finally gotten that chip off their shoulder about "The
Curse".... :^)

I've often pondered if
rudeness is inversely correlated with personal economic health.

Maybe, but I've spent lots of time in several large US cities, and San
Francisco and San Diego are both among the wealthiest and also among the
friendliest.

Eric Lucas

 

[Eeyore]

John Fields wrote:

I think they're talking about buggery, Graham.

Such huge intellects work in strange ways.

Graham

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:32:11 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Gordon wrote:

This is sad and very unfortunate. The thing we must ask ourselves
is, had I been one of the cops would/should I have waited for the
suspect to pull what ever he had in his pocket out and just hope
it wasn't a gun?

I should think there was a language barrier, and the suspect
didn't understand what the cops were trying to tell him to do and
the cops didn't understand the suspect's replies to their
commands. The cops probably thought he was going for a gun, and
weren't willing to just wait and see if he started shooting.

This is a problem in a country where gun ownership is so widespread of course.

---
Less of a problem than in the UK where if the perp had a gun and the
cops didn't _they'd_ probably be dead.



--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Eeyore]

John Fields wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:32:11 +0100, Eeyore wrote:
Gordon wrote:

This is sad and very unfortunate. The thing we must ask ourselves
is, had I been one of the cops would/should I have waited for the
suspect to pull what ever he had in his pocket out and just hope
it wasn't a gun?

I should think there was a language barrier, and the suspect
didn't understand what the cops were trying to tell him to do and
the cops didn't understand the suspect's replies to their
commands. The cops probably thought he was going for a gun, and
weren't willing to just wait and see if he started shooting.

This is a problem in a country where gun ownership is so widespread of course.

---
Less of a problem than in the UK where if the perp had a gun and the
cops didn't _they'd_ probably be dead.

Your fondness for killing is noted.

Graham

 

[Gordon]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:29:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:21:19 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:56:34 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:45214B1B.7A9DD9AD@earthlink.net...
Jim Thompson wrote:

I've seen very few French tourists here in AZ... probably because
they'd be shunned ;-)


The ones I've met in Florida were quite rude, and about as ignorant
as the donkey. They think we owe them a huge favor because they came
here to harass us.

All French people are rude. That is why no one likes them. Even the French
don't like themselves.


I drove around France for six weeks once. The people in cities were
often rude,

Absolutely! Probably from breathing the sewage stench constantly ;-)

and the people in small towns and in the countryside were
almost always cheerful and friendly.

Absolutely! I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between rural
France and rural WV except for the road signs.

In the US, I find city and
country people mostly friendly, without a big difference.

I think the rudest place I've been was Moscow... glories of Socialism
and all that.

John

We have our rude cities... NYC and Boston come to mind, though Boston
has gotten much better in recent years. I've often pondered if
rudeness is inversely correlated with personal economic health.

...Jim Thompson

Jim, I lived "back east" for a while, some years back. I can

vouch for the snooty attitude of the people up the eastern
seaboard. In NYC I always felt this was because no one trusted
anyone else, no matter where you came from.

In Boston it seems the locals regard anyone from another location
as the outfall of that riffraff that followed Horace Greeley's
call to "go west, young man, go west." They think the better ones
remained steadfast and the lower class people drifted on west,
and when any of their descendants return they are to be looked
down upon.

There was a rather funny story in circulation during those times.
It seems there was a funeral for a 92 year old fellow named
Howard. The preacher was eulogizing Howard and talked about how
Howard's parents came to this town when Howard was just a babe.
Howard's parents bought a general store down on 2nd street and
operated it until they retired.

Howard grew up and went to a local school then married a local
girl and took over his parents store when they retired. Howard
raised a son who took over the store when Howard retired. Except
for the first few months, Howard had lived all his 92+ years in
this town.

The preacher finished the eulogy, saying, "It's almost like
Howard was one of us."

Gordon

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:33:41 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:09:10 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Ummm...those references to eeyore liking pooh are not in fetish porn
groups...it's a children's story, and it's not the same eeyore. :^)

Eric Lucas

Do the search. He's on the porn groups. He even admitted it awhile
back when I inquired what he was doing there.

I said I have a soft spot for readheads. Is there anything else you'd like to
introduce ?

---
"Introduce"??? Interesting choice of word...

I have a hard spot for redheaded females myself, so I can only
assume the "soft spot" you're referring to is your anus and the
redheads you're referring to are male.


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

"Homer J Simpson" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:bhfUg.7790$N4.367@clgrps12...

lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:GreUg.962$NE6.715@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

Yes, and what details were left of out the other anecdote that hide the
"whole story"? Once you start to see the actual details, you can
understand rather than simply label and refuse to understand. I'm not
saying the other incident wasn't a case of racism, it may well have
been...I'm just saying that the anecdote, as written, did not "prove"
that racism is rampant in the US, as the poster appeared to intend.

List some other countries where a man of one race was murdered men of
another by being dragged to death behind a truck.

If I can get you to stop focusing on the race of the participants (doesn't
that make *you* the racist?), I'll ask the same question back at you in a
race-neutral fashion.

List some other coutnries where a man was murdered by being dragged to death
behind a truck.

Eric Lucas

 

In article <hic2i21fvgepp2vot8qgntktud1r5bu5gf@4ax.com>, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:37:29 GMT, mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

In article <4520DB95.FA98E674@hotmail.com>, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:


mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

In article <4520D844.DCF01BAD@hotmail.com>, Eeyore writes:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:

There is no such thing as a coherent 'Islamic terrorist' movement, much as the USA would like to >> >have
you believe it. Much Islamic terrorism isn't even targeted at the West.

There wasn't such thing as a coherent "Axis" in 1939-40. There were
three separate nations, pursuing separate goals, often in
non-coordinated fashion, at times even in a way which was detrimental
to the other Axis members goals.

Your fixation with the history of WW2 is idiotic.

I'll take this for a tacit admition that you've no better answer.

The history of WW2 has nothing useful to offer in the current context. In fact it's wholly misleading to use it as
any kind of template.

Aha. And this is based on, well, on your say so. Well, since I
already determined to my satisfaction what you're, don't expect me to
put to much of a weight on you opinions.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"



Graham has a pathological and mostly irrational hatred of America, and
makes up things to support that need. So naturally he doesn't like to
be reminded about stuff like WWII or the Cold War. He believes that
the UK and Russia defeated Germany with little need for US assistance.

YEah, he appears to be mostly a waste of time (since this is sci.phys,

I should probably say "waste of spacetime")

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 21:25:06 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:cct2i212ak2vq714ussr88s3f1tb2kram9@4ax.com...

We have our rude cities... NYC and Boston come to mind, though Boston
has gotten much better in recent years.

When I was in grad school in the late 80s, I struck up an unusual friendship
with my 80-year old crusty born-and-bred Bostonian landlord. He once
confided in me that, when he was younger, Boston was a much more pleasant
city to live and especially drive in. His take was that their economic
success in the 60s - 80s lead to a large influx of non-Bostonians. I have
experienced this before, and it does tend to make a place much less
friendly, since the populace has fewer emotional ties to the area, and thus
less interest in making it a pleasant place to be. That, and maybe the
Boston press have finally gotten that chip off their shoulder about "The
Curse".... :^)


I've often pondered if
rudeness is inversely correlated with personal economic health.

Maybe, but I've spent lots of time in several large US cities, and San
Francisco and San Diego are both among the wealthiest and also among the
friendliest.

Eric Lucas

You prove my theory... "_inversely_ correlated": high income => low
rudeness ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 21:27:48 GMT, Gordon <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net>
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:29:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:21:19 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

[snip]

I drove around France for six weeks once. The people in cities were
often rude,

Absolutely! Probably from breathing the sewage stench constantly ;-)

and the people in small towns and in the countryside were
almost always cheerful and friendly.

Absolutely! I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between rural
France and rural WV except for the road signs.

In the US, I find city and
country people mostly friendly, without a big difference.

I think the rudest place I've been was Moscow... glories of Socialism
and all that.

John

We have our rude cities... NYC and Boston come to mind, though Boston
has gotten much better in recent years. I've often pondered if
rudeness is inversely correlated with personal economic health.

...Jim Thompson

Jim, I lived "back east" for a while, some years back. I can
vouch for the snooty attitude of the people up the eastern
seaboard. In NYC I always felt this was because no one trusted
anyone else, no matter where you came from.

In Boston it seems the locals regard anyone from another location
as the outfall of that riffraff that followed Horace Greeley's
call to "go west, young man, go west."

When I announced, in 1962, that I had taken a position at Motorola in
Phoenix, AZ, a professor at MIT (who shall remain nameless) asked me
if I was making the right choice, "...after all, there are Indians out
there" ;-)

They think the better ones
remained steadfast and the lower class people drifted on west,
and when any of their descendants return they are to be looked
down upon.

Interesting theory.

There was a rather funny story in circulation during those times.
It seems there was a funeral for a 92 year old fellow named
Howard. The preacher was eulogizing Howard and talked about how
Howard's parents came to this town when Howard was just a babe.
Howard's parents bought a general store down on 2nd street and
operated it until they retired.

Howard grew up and went to a local school then married a local
girl and took over his parents store when they retired. Howard
raised a son who took over the store when Howard retired. Except
for the first few months, Howard had lived all his 92+ years in
this town.

The preacher finished the eulogy, saying, "It's almost like
Howard was one of us."

Gordon

Sounds about right ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:19:12 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:

It is a cop-out, but it's not a digression--it's directly on point of one of
the bad behaviors of the US government, that has help the terrorist cause.
Human civilization has decided in the past that war is to be fought with
some semblence of rules, and came up with the Geneva Convention as a way of
putting them on paper. This was precisely so that "the rules of war apply
to those who themselves apply the rules of war", to prevent world aggressors
like Hitler from making up their own rules of combat. The US loses the
moral high ground to the terrorists precisely when it chooses to
"re-interpret" (a euphemism for "ignore and unilaterally rewrite") the
Geneva Convention. By doing so, they have legitimized anybody else who
wants to rewrite the rules of the conflict that they find themselves
embroiled in--like the radical Islamist terrorists, or the next
group/country that decides it doesn't like the behavior of the US
government.

And also the USA has refused to sign up to the International Court for fear of
Americans being tried for war crimes ! I wonder why ?????

---
Easy. Because as hated as the US is lately, bogus charges would be
made which would require a defense, and who needs the grief?
---

It amazes me that Meron refuses to see that this behavior on
the part of the US government only serves to piss off the rest of the world
and as a rallying cry for the terrorists.

Stupidity is rife, endemic even, in the USA.

---
Yeah, right. Just keep on believing that and you'll be fine...


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer