Jihad needs scientists

Ken Smith · Oct 4, 2006

In article <_YxUg.45778$bf5.41411@edtnps90>,
Homer J Simpson <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:eft9s4$8ss_002@s888.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

You are excoriating Bush for doing one of his primary jobs which
is national security. I suppose you long for the days of the
Clintons where the goal was to breakdown all national security.

Clinton was successful.

Bush is a failure.

Unless you assume some really bad things about his motives that is.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

Lloyd Parker · Oct 4, 2006

In article <MPG.1f8d91f2b6b5c0e8989d5f@News.Individual.NET>,
Keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

In article <efugkv$4up$3@leto.cc.emory.edu>, lparker@emory.edu
says...
In article <nrc5i2tq8jr4k99aqofmbbesm7em13ktok@4ax.com>,
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:28:11 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Lloyd Parker" <lparker@emory.edu> wrote in message
news:eftptn$c8p$2@leto.cc.emory.edu...

Tell me how many times the Bill of Rights says "people" and how many
times
it
says "citizens."

SCOTUS has said that even visitors have the rights of citizens when it
come
to legal processes. After all, you expect their homeland laws to apply
in
the US would you?

Correct. But they also realize that the rights apply only when those
people are physically in the USA. Which is why some bad guys are held
elsewhere.

John

Well, Bush thought Gitmo qualified as "elsewhere" but the USSC said no.
Then
he held people in Europe, which is raising a stink there. It might keep
some
prospective EU members out even.

Actually, no it didn't. It said only that Congress had some say in
the matter.

No, Bush claimed the detainees could not sue in US courts and the case should

be dismissed. The USSC said they could, and heard the case. Not talking
about the way of trying them; talking about the right to sue.

Lloyd Parker · Oct 4, 2006

In article <1159933938.680922.128710@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"thelasian" <thelasian@yahoo.com> wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
T Wake wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:

His [Ahmadinejad] election was heavily assisted by the Religious
leaders though...

Do you have any cite for that ?

I will endeavour to find a relevant one, a quick slightly relevant one is
-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/16/AR200506160105

6.html.

The Guardian Council vetted the presidential candidates to ensure no one
too
"reformist" would be on the bill.

There was a front runner who was considered more western leaning though.

My understanding was that his electoral success was a surprise to most
observers.

Yes. It was. The last president was a secular reformist. Still does not
mean
the elections were fair and open democratic process showing the will of
the
people.

It's not a democracy as we'd understand it for sure.

Graham

Yes, in our version of democracy, there are only two parties that are
both funded mainly by the same corporations and collectively dominate
and cooperate to prevent the rise of any third party.
In our version of democracy, the candidates are pre-selected for the
voters depending on how much money corporations donate to them, and the
voters are pre-selected for the candidates throught the process of
drawing electoral district lines using sophisticated consumer database
info in order to ensure that the district vote comes out in a
pre-determined way.

Yes, that's our democracy.

Corporations cannot donate money to political candidates. PACs can, but not
corporations.

And if you don't believe me, I suggest you read Walter Karp's classic
book Indispensable Enemies: The Politics of Misrule in America, for
starters, and this http://www.fairvote.org/?page=564

"In analysing the Bush administration's rhetoric on Iran, it is
therefore instructive to consider how some of the more obvious examples
of fallacious reasoning and techniques of deceptive rhetoric were
employed to make the case for a war on Iraq..."

MORE: http://www.geocities.com/csafdari

Lloyd Parker · Oct 4, 2006

In article <1159934432.523713.79700@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
"thelasian" <thelasian@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lloyd Parker wrote:
In article <wGvUg.1284$NE6.314@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4522814D.248F1F7E@hotmail.com...

lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Ahmadinejad hasn't made the mistake of genocide like Saddam did, he's
just
not very popular.

How did he get elected then ?

The glib answer is "Just like Bush." Look at how popular *he* is.

The honest answer is, I don't know. I have to admit I'm not familiar with
the workings of the Iranian government. What I do know of the situation
comes from the writings of several scholars of the Middle East, who, to a
man, say that Ahmadinejad is not popular with his constituency, and will
be
gone presently if we don't stir the pot too much.

Eric Lucas

For one thing, he got elected because the unelected Council of Guardians
(mullahs) disqualified pretty much everyone who was not a hard-line
conservative.

Myth. Mustafa Moin was a candidate but not a hardliner. Even if this
was true, no one forced the poeple to vote for Ahmadinejad or anyone
else - the voters could have stayed home. They didn't.

No myth. Look at how many candidates were disqualified.

In the US, the candidates are whittled down to 2 by the domination of
hte Republican-Democrats over the election system, which they
intentionally misuse to prevent the rise of a third party candidate.

So? We don't have a non-elected council actually kicking people off the
ballot for president.

Michael A. Terrell · Oct 4, 2006

Keith wrote:

Meanwhile, the stuffed donkey will watch the documentary about the
wild west, "Blazing Saddles".

He should pay close attention to the scene where someone punches out
the horse.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell · Oct 4, 2006

Jim Thompson wrote:

I should know shortly what low-life job Eric has at Battelle... my
guess is janitor ;-)

Are you sure they would give him that much responsibility?

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

YD · Oct 4, 2006

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:37:41 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 07:52:41 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:17:53 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

The United States is the world's largest contributor of ODA in absolute terms
($15.7 billion, 2003), but the *SMALLEST* among developed countries as a
percentage of its GDP (0.14% in 2003). The UN target for development aid is 0.7%
of GDP; currently only five countries (with Norway in the lead with 0.92%) achieve
this." ( my emphasis )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid

Graham

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

See "side notes on private contributions." Personally, both my wife
and I donate many thousands of dollars to the foreign-aid institutions
we believe in. This year, I will give maybe $20,000 to Doctors Without
Borders.

How much do you personally donate to things like this?

John

Sheeesh! Do a Google-groups search on Eeyore/Graham... he's a
depraved poster to porn groups, so he's probably in a cell, posting
from the prison library ;-)

...Jim Thompson

PPOSTFU

- YD.

--
Remove HAT if replying by mail.

Oct 4, 2006

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:0k57i2df806cmetlmbcjn9q41bc2vfg6fm@4ax.com...

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 03:05:09 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> Gave us:

I don't see you speaking out against racism in the US. Does that mean you
approve of it, or do you apply different standards to others than you
apply
to yourself?

You're an idiot. My family was directly involved with the
"underground railroad". If you have any brains at all, you'll know
that *that* made for more freedom in this country than just about
anything else you could name since.

Immature insults aside, yes, I do know how much good the Underground
Railroad did. Good for them, but I didn't ask about your ancesotrs, I asked
about *you*? I am a direct descendant of Daniel Boone, but you don't see me
crowing that I fought native Americans and conquered the US frontier.

I DO speak out more than a twit like you could ever know.

Immature name-calling aside, don't you think MAYBE, just maybe, the leaders
of moderate Muslim groups might be speaking out against terrorism, more than
*you* could ever know?

Eric Lucas

YD · Oct 4, 2006

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:24:30 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:33:41 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:09:10 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Ummm...those references to eeyore liking pooh are not in fetish porn
groups...it's a children's story, and it's not the same eeyore. :^)

Eric Lucas

Do the search. He's on the porn groups. He even admitted it awhile
back when I inquired what he was doing there.

I said I have a soft spot for readheads. Is there anything else you'd like to
introduce ?

Graham

I assume you are repelled by American redheads, the fat and stupid
ones, like the pic I posted.

John

Fat and stupid broads are repelling no matter what hair color. Any
other smart remarks?

- YD.

--
Remove HAT if replying by mail.

Jim Thompson · Oct 4, 2006

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:43:32 -0300, YD <ydtechHAT@techie.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:45:09 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:04:16 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

T Wake wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote

Yep, I knew he was at Battelle, thus my previous not-so-quiet comment
that his mouth was running on government money.

Wonder if his boss knows the crap he posts? I'll make sure that he
does ;-)

Loathe though I am to join in with the generalisation of American behaviour
traits, am I reading this correct in that some one has disagreed with you so
your response is a series of threats of violence and / or complaining to his
employer.

Amazing. You make me so proud.

Nothing's too base for Jim.

He even claims to be a libertarian !

---
And you claim to be human.

Which is the bigger stretch?\

Most certainly Jim's claim to be libertarian.

- YD.

[cross-posting to non S.E.D deleted]

War: To the right of Attila the Hun
Threat to the US in any form: Nuk'em
Religious terrorists: Kill and desecrate their bodies
Guns: Everyone should have at least one, AND sufficient ammo
Economics: No taxes except for infrastructure; free market,
no gov't controls, no social legislation
Abortion: Pro
Stem Cell Research: Pro
Personal Consumption of Drugs: Go ahead and kill yourself if you like
Gay: I could care less... just stay out of my face
Religion: I could care less... just stay out of my face
Democrats: OK, if you are that ignorant... just stay out of my face
In my face: Eat a bullet
Global warming caused by man: Hogwash
Graham/Eeyore: Ignorance to the point of PRICELESS ;-)
Eric Lucas: A close second

Sounds Libertarian to me ;-)

(What did I miss?)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Fields · Oct 4, 2006

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 19:54:48 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
<nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
newskc5i2lt97pr89s6btknjt9vv1rfn840ub@4ax.com...

They did break US law. There's lots of legal precedence here. If a
Canadian kills a US citizen in Canada, that's a violation of US law.

Don't care. It's a violation of Canadian law and must be punished under that
law.

---
I agree. The crime should be prosecuted in the jurisdiction in
which it's committed.
---

An American 'bounty hunter' came up to Canada, kidnapped a resident who had
broken the law in the US and took him back to the US for trial. The
kidnapped man was returned to Canada and the bounty hunter was extradited to
Canada where he was tried, sentenced and imprisoned for violating Canadian
law. That is as it should be.

---
Again, I agree.

The bounty hunter should have arranged for extradition with the
Canadian authorities, and if none was granted he should have
abandoned his quest.
---

"Dog the Bounty Hunter" seems to have missed that lesson.

---
I hate that program. Nothing but goddam white trash TV.
---

The French see things the same way... murdering a Frenchman anywhere
is against French law.

Shipping drugs into the US harms US citizens, so is reasonably a
crime.

International waters are not US waters.

---
Nor are they under _any_ jurisdiction, so it's not like extradition
proceedings are needed to take a criminal suspect into custody
there.
---

Piracy is still a hanging offence.

---
LOL! And who's going to do the hanging, pray tell?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

Oct 4, 2006

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:7s57i2h1e9t48lv1d8i1jmfdm9kj4b9iis@4ax.com...

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 03:09:12 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> Gave us:

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:5pr5i2his5dccj9emaujrv65hmohk2j4h0@4ax.com...

The real problem lies with the California version of a police
academy. They have no clue what is contained in the US Constitution,
and they ALL forget their oath five seconds after they utter it.

Oh, you mean like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom from
unreasonable (warrantless) searches and seizures? Yet you're OK when Bush
ignores those? How about a little consistency in your views? Or do you
just get on Usenet to insult and swear at people?

You're an idiot. Show me where I posted a stand on anything about
Bush.

OK, so what is your stand on his attacks on the Constitutional rights I
listed above?

< Also, name one US household he has sent government agents into

without a warrant.

Well, since that's classified information, ya got me there, I can't give
names and addresses.... However, the answer to your question is any
household of which the phone has been tapped by the NSA. You're going to
have to come into the 21st century and understand that searches include not
only a physical search, but also electronic surveillance...or so common
sense and the Supreme Court would tell us.

Eric Lucas

Jim Thompson · Oct 4, 2006

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:53:57 -0300, YD <ydtechHAT@techie.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:37:41 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 07:52:41 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:17:53 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

The United States is the world's largest contributor of ODA in absolute terms
($15.7 billion, 2003), but the *SMALLEST* among developed countries as a
percentage of its GDP (0.14% in 2003). The UN target for development aid is 0.7%
of GDP; currently only five countries (with Norway in the lead with 0.92%) achieve
this." ( my emphasis )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid

Graham

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

See "side notes on private contributions." Personally, both my wife
and I donate many thousands of dollars to the foreign-aid institutions
we believe in. This year, I will give maybe $20,000 to Doctors Without
Borders.

How much do you personally donate to things like this?

John

Sheeesh! Do a Google-groups search on Eeyore/Graham... he's a
depraved poster to porn groups, so he's probably in a cell, posting
from the prison library ;-)

...Jim Thompson

PPOSTFU

- YD.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Oct 4, 2006

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:43:32 -0300, YD <ydtechHAT@techie.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:45:09 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:04:16 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

T Wake wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote

Yep, I knew he was at Battelle, thus my previous not-so-quiet comment
that his mouth was running on government money.

Wonder if his boss knows the crap he posts? I'll make sure that he
does ;-)

Loathe though I am to join in with the generalisation of American behaviour
traits, am I reading this correct in that some one has disagreed with you so
your response is a series of threats of violence and / or complaining to his
employer.

Amazing. You make me so proud.

Nothing's too base for Jim.

He even claims to be a libertarian !

---
And you claim to be human.

Which is the bigger stretch?\

Most certainly Jim's claim to be libertarian.

- YD.

[cross-posting to non S.E.D deleted]

War: To the right of Attila the Hun
Threat to the US in any form: Nuk'em
Religious terrorists: Kill and desecrate their bodies
Guns: Everyone should have at least one, AND sufficient ammo
Economics: No taxes except for infrastructure; free market,
no gov't controls, no social legislation
Abortion: Pro
Stem Cell Research: Pro
Personal Consumption of Drugs: Go ahead and kill yourself if you like
Gay: I could care less... just stay out of my face
Religion: I could care less... just stay out of my face
Democrats: OK, if you are that ignorant... just stay out of my face
In my face: Eat a bullet
Global warming caused by man: Hogwash
Graham/Eeyore: Ignorance to the point of PRICELESS ;-)
Eric Lucas: A close second

Sounds Libertarian to me ;-)

(What did I miss?)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Oct 4, 2006

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:ld57i2hr222gha5j0k69l0mu0gbh6sg2k6@4ax.com...

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 01:53:12 GMT, <lucasea@sbcglobal.net> Gave us:

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:cn16i21ec8ndcbeg2eqt2tlsm4kpjpmq50@4ax.com...
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:40:34 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
nobody@nowhere.com> Gave us:

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:rvl4i2pl69h59aavbv4ko9uld9m099c6ek@4ax.com...

Ignoring the blemishes, which is
what most of the Joe Sixpack 'Murc'n rednecks like yourself choose to
do

Hahahah... I drink better beers than your retarded ass does.

So you only drink imported beer?

I also work on more sophisticated gear than you do.

So you only work on imported gear?

You're a fucking retard on both counts.

You insist on continuing to live up to the redneck Joe Sixpack stereotype,
then you get POed when someone points it out to you. It must suck to live
your life.

The beer I drink is ranked number two in the entire world. Let's see
if YOU even have enough brains to find out which one it is.

I really don't care what you drink--anyone who claims to be a better man
because he drinks a better or more popular beer (you didn't say what the
ranking is based on--but I think the whole concept of ranking beer is kind
of stupid anyway) has a *really* hollow existence. It's your *behavior*
that I was commenting on. You are a living stereotype.

Eric Lucas

John Fields · Oct 4, 2006

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:30:52 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

T Wake wrote:
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:

The same reason unthinking Muslims support groups considered terrorist by
the west.

Is Hezbollah a terrorist organisation ?

If you are asking my opinion..... then yes. A nasty, ruthless one. However
sometimes terrorists seem to come in from the cold.

That's the point at which they've won.

Looks like they won in that case.

---
A skirmish, perhaps, but not the war.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

Oct 4, 2006

<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:efvurj$8ss_006@s811.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <eftq1i$c8p$3@leto.cc.emory.edu>,
lparker@emory.edu (Lloyd Parker) wrote:
In article <p1iUg.9199$e66.6609@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:452198F0.A71D16AC@hotmail.com...

John Fields wrote:

You miss no opportunity to lambaste the US, its population, its
government, its institutions, and you hate its very existence, so
what do you expect me to think, that you're a benevolent soul trying
to help with constructive criticism?

I thought it was fine under Clinton !

Yes, but you see, if he denigrates your point of view by labelling you as
someone that could never say anything good about the US, then he doesn't
have to take your point of view seriously and try to understand that
perhaps
it might even be a valid point of view, that an intelligent person may be
capable of coming to through independent thought. It's the same thing
the
Bush administration does by labelling everyone that disagrees with it a
"traitor" (under the *extremely* liberal interpretations that disagreeing
with your government is tantamount to aiding the enemy.) What they seem
to
fail to understand is that the Constitution gives every US citizen is
given
the *responsibility* to question its government *every single* day of
their
lives. It really is sad that the Bush administration has seen fit to
legitimize this sort of anti-American behavior.

Keith Olbermann had a good commentary a week or two ago about Bush calling
a
criticism "unacceptable."

Which criticism was unacceptable?

I don't understand you people; first you complain that he can't
think for himself; then, you object when he expresses his opinion about
something.

You can't have it both ways.

Calling "criticism" "unacceptable" is not an opinion--it's an
argument-winning tactic that involves tacitly silencing anybody who
disagrees with you.

Eric Lucas

John Fields · Oct 4, 2006

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:32:51 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

T Wake wrote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
T Wake wrote:

This implies that Jews, Christians, Hindus etc are all subject to the
beheading.

According to whom ?

The original quote which was being discussed.

And has that 'quote' any validity ?

---
The donkey dance again, huh?

You must feel the win slipping away from you, slowly but inexorably.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

Oct 4, 2006

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:aoe7i21tk8sssrs4pk0ih2suo1b1k0gder@4ax.com...

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:23:50 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

T Wake wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message

I input: "This paté smells like cat shit."

and I got back: "Ce pâté sent comme la merde de chat."

How would you translate it?

I wouldn't. I'd just speak English very loudly and very slowly.

---
How brutal. If you didn't understand French and they spoke French to
you, very loudly and very slowly, would you understand what they
were trying to say?

How much sweeter to be able to softly crush an opponent with his own
tongue.

It was SATIRE, fer Chrissake. Sheesh, even I got that.

Eric Lucas

Oct 4, 2006

"Keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f8d949b973606e3989d61@News.Individual.NET...

Oh, you mean like the Reagen and Clinton administrations did with Osama
bin Laden when he was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan?

Sadly, yes.

Another idiot heard from.

You don't believe that former administrations provided substantial support
to two people/organizations who have subsequently turned against the US?
You need to read more, it's well-known.

Eric Lucas

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