jargon

[Kaz Kylheku]

On 2011-11-19, Don Pearce <spam@spam.com> wrote:

And make no mistake, the feedback the OP was asking about was the loud
howl you get when you turn the PA up too far.

It rather looked like the OP was asking about studio effects (in which
"feedback" is a parameter: e.g. delay with nonzero feedback creates repeating
echo.)

 

[Don Pearce]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:05:11 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:23:36 GMT, spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 12:17:35 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:16:43 GMT, spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:22:43 +1100, "Trevor" <trevor@home.net> wrote:


"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4ec76c21.174471@news.eternal-september.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:51:37 -0800 (PST), RichD
r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

What's the difference between reverb, echo, and feedback?

Echo is a single reflection of a sound - the kind you hear when you
shout "Hello" near a cliff.

Multiple reflections are also common in such instances.


No they are not. One cliff, one echo. No choice.

Two walls of said cliff; multiple echoes. If you're on the edge of the cliff
with no opposing wall there will be zero echo.

Since when does one cliff have two walls? The cliff IS the wall.

Zero intelligence.

Feedback is a situation you only get when you have an amplifier and a
speaker. The sound arriving from the speaker is a little louder than
the one that originally hit the microphone, so that comes out of the
speaker a little louder still. This loop will build until the system
howls.

That would be *acoustic feedback* only, There are MANY other types of
course.

In the context of the question it would simply be confusing to discuss
- or even mention - other kinds.

You cure it by turning down the amplifier so the sound from the
speaker is always a little softer than the original when it hits the
microphone.

Or any other method that reduces the loop gain at the feedback frequency,
notch filtering being a common example.


Again, given the question, no need to complicate the answer.

But you found it necessary to bring up loop gain. Interesting. You wouldn't
be an audiophool, by chance?

Loop gain greater than unity is what causes feedback howl. There is no
way of avoiding it if you want to explain what causes the feedback.

Wrong. *Regenerative* feedback needs a gain > unity.

And make no mistake, the feedback the OP was asking about was the loud
howl you get when you turn the PA up too far.

You can't even keep *your* terms straight. You *must* be an audiophool (lack
of an answer speaks volumes).

I leave the verdict to the audience.

d

 

[Don Pearce]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 01:19:59 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku
<kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:

On 2011-11-19, Don Pearce <spam@spam.com> wrote:
And make no mistake, the feedback the OP was asking about was the loud
howl you get when you turn the PA up too far.

It rather looked like the OP was asking about studio effects (in which
"feedback" is a parameter: e.g. delay with nonzero feedback creates repeating
echo.)

I very much doubt that, given that the other two were acoustic effects
within a space.

d

 

[Phil Allison]

"Kaz Kylheku"

It rather looked like the OP was asking about studio effects (in which
"feedback" is a parameter: e.g. delay with nonzero feedback creates
repeating
echo.)

** Everything points at that conclusion - including the heading.

But the OP is an idiot and a troll so will never clear up the ambiguity.



.... Phil

 

[Kaz Kylheku]

On 2011-11-20, Don Pearce <spam@spam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 01:19:59 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku
kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:

On 2011-11-19, Don Pearce <spam@spam.com> wrote:
And make no mistake, the feedback the OP was asking about was the loud
howl you get when you turn the PA up too far.

It rather looked like the OP was asking about studio effects (in which
"feedback" is a parameter: e.g. delay with nonzero feedback creates repeating
echo.)

I very much doubt that, given that the other two were acoustic effects
within a space.

The other clues are that this was posted to an "audio tech" and electronics
newsgroup. Also, "reverb" is the jargon for the electronic effect;
reverberation is the acoustic phenomenon.

Your interpretation as this being a question about acoustic phenomena, and
amplifier/speaker/microphone issues, is the one that is rather tenuous.

 

[Arny Krueger]

"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4ec8970f.348225@news.eternal-september.org...

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:05:11 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:23:36 GMT, spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 12:17:35 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:16:43 GMT, spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:22:43 +1100, "Trevor" <trevor@home.net> wrote:


"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4ec76c21.174471@news.eternal-september.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:51:37 -0800 (PST), RichD
r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

What's the difference between reverb, echo, and feedback?

Echo is a single reflection of a sound - the kind you hear when you
shout "Hello" near a cliff.

Multiple reflections are also common in such instances.


No they are not. One cliff, one echo. No choice.

Two walls of said cliff; multiple echoes. If you're on the edge of the
cliff
with no opposing wall there will be zero echo.

Since when does one cliff have two walls? The cliff IS the wall.

Zero intelligence.

Feedback is a situation you only get when you have an amplifier and
a
speaker. The sound arriving from the speaker is a little louder than
the one that originally hit the microphone, so that comes out of the
speaker a little louder still. This loop will build until the system
howls.

That would be *acoustic feedback* only, There are MANY other types of
course.

In the context of the question it would simply be confusing to discuss
- or even mention - other kinds.

You cure it by turning down the amplifier so the sound from the
speaker is always a little softer than the original when it hits the
microphone.

Or any other method that reduces the loop gain at the feedback
frequency,
notch filtering being a common example.


Again, given the question, no need to complicate the answer.

But you found it necessary to bring up loop gain. Interesting. You
wouldn't
be an audiophool, by chance?

Loop gain greater than unity is what causes feedback howl. There is no
way of avoiding it if you want to explain what causes the feedback.

Wrong. *Regenerative* feedback needs a gain > unity.

And make no mistake, the feedback the OP was asking about was the loud
howl you get when you turn the PA up too far.

You can't even keep *your* terms straight. You *must* be an audiophool
(lack
of an answer speaks volumes).

I leave the verdict to the audience.

There is no doubt that your answer was correct, Don.

KRW's response was one of those hard-to-understand pronouncements of "you
are wrong" followed by a recitation of the same identical facts. Since his
facts agree with you, his pronouncement that you were wrong is itself wrong.

Obviously, he's not watching very closely.

There was a rush to judgment.

He owes you an apology.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Don Pearce"

And make no mistake, the feedback the OP was asking about was the loud
howl you get when you turn the PA up too far.

** The wording of his massively ambiguous post does not suggest that.

Effects units that delay an audio signal become " reverb " units with the
aid of some feedback from output to input.

That is the "jargon" used.



.... Phil

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:33:02 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@cocmast.net> wrote:

"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4ec8970f.348225@news.eternal-september.org...
On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:05:11 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:23:36 GMT, spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 12:17:35 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:16:43 GMT, spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:22:43 +1100, "Trevor" <trevor@home.net> wrote:


"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4ec76c21.174471@news.eternal-september.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:51:37 -0800 (PST), RichD
r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

What's the difference between reverb, echo, and feedback?

Echo is a single reflection of a sound - the kind you hear when you
shout "Hello" near a cliff.

Multiple reflections are also common in such instances.


No they are not. One cliff, one echo. No choice.

Two walls of said cliff; multiple echoes. If you're on the edge of the
cliff
with no opposing wall there will be zero echo.

Since when does one cliff have two walls? The cliff IS the wall.

Zero intelligence.

Feedback is a situation you only get when you have an amplifier and
a
speaker. The sound arriving from the speaker is a little louder than
the one that originally hit the microphone, so that comes out of the
speaker a little louder still. This loop will build until the system
howls.

That would be *acoustic feedback* only, There are MANY other types of
course.

In the context of the question it would simply be confusing to discuss
- or even mention - other kinds.

You cure it by turning down the amplifier so the sound from the
speaker is always a little softer than the original when it hits the
microphone.

Or any other method that reduces the loop gain at the feedback
frequency,
notch filtering being a common example.


Again, given the question, no need to complicate the answer.

But you found it necessary to bring up loop gain. Interesting. You
wouldn't
be an audiophool, by chance?

Loop gain greater than unity is what causes feedback howl. There is no
way of avoiding it if you want to explain what causes the feedback.

Wrong. *Regenerative* feedback needs a gain > unity.

And make no mistake, the feedback the OP was asking about was the loud
howl you get when you turn the PA up too far.

You can't even keep *your* terms straight. You *must* be an audiophool
(lack
of an answer speaks volumes).

I leave the verdict to the audience.

There is no doubt that your answer was correct, Don.

He's illiterate.

KRW's response was one of those hard-to-understand pronouncements of "you
are wrong" followed by a recitation of the same identical facts. Since his
facts agree with you, his pronouncement that you were wrong is itself wrong.

He is absolutely wrong. He can't even follow his own definitions.

Obviously, he's not watching very closely.

You audiophools are some piece of work.

There was a rush to judgment.

He owes you an apology.

Absolutely wrong.

 

[Trevor]

"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4ec7817b.5640231@news.eternal-september.org...

Echo is a single reflection of a sound - the kind you hear when you
shout "Hello" near a cliff.

Multiple reflections are also common in such instances.


No they are not. One cliff, one echo. No choice.

In the real world cliffs are not usually one straight smooth edge of course.

Feedback is a situation you only get when you have an amplifier and a
speaker. The sound arriving from the speaker is a little louder than
the one that originally hit the microphone, so that comes out of the
speaker a little louder still. This loop will build until the system
howls.

That would be *acoustic feedback* only, There are MANY other types of
course.

In the context of the question it would simply be confusing to discuss
- or even mention - other kinds.

If you prefer to simplify things so much you at least need to point that
out.

You cure it by turning down the amplifier so the sound from the
speaker is always a little softer than the original when it hits the
microphone.

Or any other method that reduces the loop gain at the feedback frequency,
notch filtering being a common example.


Again, given the question, no need to complicate the answer.

Or simplify it to the point of being wrong. To paraphrase Einstein, things
should be as simple as possible, not simpler.

Trevor.

 

[Rich Grise]

Trevor wrote:

"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
Echo is a single reflection of a sound - the kind you hear when you
shout "Hello" near a cliff.

Multiple reflections are also common in such instances.

No they are not. One cliff, one echo. No choice.

In the real world cliffs are not usually one straight smooth edge of
course.

That's why an echo is cool - they're relatively rare.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:44:56 +1100, "Trevor" <trevor@home.net> wrote:

"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4ec7817b.5640231@news.eternal-september.org...
Echo is a single reflection of a sound - the kind you hear when you
shout "Hello" near a cliff.

Multiple reflections are also common in such instances.


No they are not. One cliff, one echo. No choice.

In the real world cliffs are not usually one straight smooth edge of course.

My mistake. I thought I was talking about a hypothetical cliff. I now
find I was in fact talking about a cliff that you know personally, and
has multiple faces. Would you care to introduce me to it so I can
perform a mathematical analysis? That will obviously make things much
simpler for the OP.

Feedback is a situation you only get when you have an amplifier and a
speaker. The sound arriving from the speaker is a little louder than
the one that originally hit the microphone, so that comes out of the
speaker a little louder still. This loop will build until the system
howls.

That would be *acoustic feedback* only, There are MANY other types of
course.

In the context of the question it would simply be confusing to discuss
- or even mention - other kinds.

If you prefer to simplify things so much you at least need to point that
out.

I was doing what anybody would do when explaining a principle,
reducing it to its minimum implementation. It's what you do.

You cure it by turning down the amplifier so the sound from the
speaker is always a little softer than the original when it hits the
microphone.

Or any other method that reduces the loop gain at the feedback frequency,
notch filtering being a common example.


Again, given the question, no need to complicate the answer.

Or simplify it to the point of being wrong. To paraphrase Einstein, things
should be as simple as possible, not simpler.

Simplified to the point of being wrong? Hear feedback, turn the gain
down until it stops. You are going to have to explain what is wrong
here - clearly I'm being thick.

d

 

[Trevor]

"Don Pearce" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4eca866e.1982460@news.eternal-september.org...

clearly I'm being thick.

Something we can agree on then!

Trevor.