Is a USB to GPIB dongle/convertor a difficult project ?

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:37:40 -0800 (PST), Winfield
<winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote:

Rich Webb wrote:
robb wrote:
That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is
there more to it?

AFAIK, there is no single-chip "USB/GPIB" solution.

http://prologix.googlepages.com/gpibusb.jpg/gpibusb-full.jpg
is a picture of one available (and relatively inexpensive)
approach.

Sparkfun carries the newer, 4.2 version; I've use the bare-board
rev 3 (the one pictured) with success for some automated lab\
test equipment.

The Prologix adapters are unique, in that they use
standard serial-port communication from the computer
(USB-to-serial) and add a serial-to-GPIB (IEEE-488)
interface with a microprocessor. This means you
write standard serial-port programs to communicate
with your GPIB device, without using GPIB drivers.
For example, you can use raw PowerBasic or whatever.
The Prologix adapters are also inexpensive, the new
4.2 model comes in a nice box for $150.
http://prologix.googlepages.com/

We did one test system that used a DOS pc, with an ebay RS-232 to GPIB
converter talking to a vintage HP 5370 time-interval counter, all
programmed in PowerBasic. Somehow it works.

Incidentally, the Console Compiler (Windows) version of PowerBasic is
very slick. I coded about 1400 lines of inventory-control database
stuff this weekend, and it works great... compiles to a 50K EXE and
runs blinding fast. Now when you look at the inventory record for a
part, you can hit a key and launch an Explorer window that includes
datasheets, pics, notes, browser links, whatever, about that part.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:22:46 -0800 (PST), Winfield
<winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Feb 19, 12:48 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com
wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message

news:8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com...

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet.

USB to GPIB and Ethernet to GPIB converters are the probably the last products
that will ever be commercially developed for GPIB.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

No, although from having written test programs to talk to GPIB devices I
suspect it's quite massive and somewhat convoluted.

---Joel

Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.

I read the spec for an hour or so before I figured out that "message"
was ieee-speak for a logic level on a wire. There's one state diagram
that looks like a pot full of pasta and peas.

John

 

[krw]

In article <fFMuj.8368$5K1.2836@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...

krw wrote:
In article <8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:44:56 -0500, Rich Webb
bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:41:02 -0500, "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote:

That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is there more to it
?
AFAIK, there is no single-chip "USB/GPIB" solution.

http://prologix.googlepages.com/gpibusb.jpg/gpibusb-full.jpg> is a
picture of one available (and relatively inexpensive) approach.

Sparkfun carries the newer, 4.2 version; I've use the bare-board rev 3
(the one pictured) with success for some automated lab test equipment.
Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet. You can buy an entire Ethernet server gadget, like an
Xport, for half the price of a GPIB cable, and it will work 1000 miles
from your computer.

It should never have been born! What a hunk of junk.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

Yes. Didn't make it work any better though. What a mess.


OTOH GPIB cables look like they could be quite useful to tow a truck

Cost as much as the truck.

And yes, GPIB is IMHO ill-conceived.

I had one setup that the cables had to be starred off one device to
get it to work. There was a 12" GPIB stack of connectors hanging
off one device. In another phase of the moon they'd have to be
daisy-chained.

My worst experience: Unscrewed a
connection, didn't pay attention for a split second, cable ricocheted
across the lab table and my coffee cup went sailing. Kleenex time. What
a mess!

Did that this morning. Dumped half a 20oz cup of coffee all over my
desk and side. Fortunately, my laptop was the opposite direction.
Yes, a mess.

--
Keith

 

[Joerg]

none wrote:

Joerg wrote:
Winfield wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:48 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com
wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message

news:8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com...

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet.
USB to GPIB and Ethernet to GPIB converters are the probably the
last products
that will ever be commercially developed for GPIB.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?
No, although from having written test programs to talk to GPIB
devices I
suspect it's quite massive and somewhat convoluted.

---Joel

Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.


But the hardware sure isn't.

You can actually do a simple gpib interface with just a parallel port
but then you have to deal with drivers.

Is there any link where somebody did that? Drivers would otherwise be
the big roadblock. Me and the world of software are miles apart.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[none]

Joerg wrote:

Winfield wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:48 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com
wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message

news:8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com...

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet.
USB to GPIB and Ethernet to GPIB converters are the probably the last
products
that will ever be commercially developed for GPIB.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?
No, although from having written test programs to talk to GPIB devices I
suspect it's quite massive and somewhat convoluted.

---Joel

Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.


But the hardware sure isn't.

You can actually do a simple gpib interface with just a parallel port

but then you have to deal with drivers.

 

[Joerg]

krw wrote:

In article <8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:44:56 -0500, Rich Webb
bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:41:02 -0500, "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote:

That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is there more to it
?
AFAIK, there is no single-chip "USB/GPIB" solution.

http://prologix.googlepages.com/gpibusb.jpg/gpibusb-full.jpg> is a
picture of one available (and relatively inexpensive) approach.

Sparkfun carries the newer, 4.2 version; I've use the bare-board rev 3
(the one pictured) with success for some automated lab test equipment.
Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet. You can buy an entire Ethernet server gadget, like an
Xport, for half the price of a GPIB cable, and it will work 1000 miles
from your computer.

It should never have been born! What a hunk of junk.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

Yes. Didn't make it work any better though. What a mess.

OTOH GPIB cables look like they could be quite useful to tow a truck

And yes, GPIB is IMHO ill-conceived. My worst experience: Unscrewed a
connection, didn't pay attention for a split second, cable ricocheted
across the lab table and my coffee cup went sailing. Kleenex time. What
a mess!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[krw]

In article <f36e44ce-ae5d-4fda-9ae9-4d9ec6d255d7
@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, winfieldhill@yahoo.com says...

On Feb 19, 12:48 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com
wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message

news:8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com...

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet.

USB to GPIB and Ethernet to GPIB converters are the probably the last products
that will ever be commercially developed for GPIB.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

No, although from having written test programs to talk to GPIB devices I
suspect it's quite massive and somewhat convoluted.

---Joel

Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.

Unlike GPIB, USB and Firewire work. It took USB a while, though.

--
Keith

 

[Winfield]

Rich Webb wrote:

robb wrote:
That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is
there more to it?

AFAIK, there is no single-chip "USB/GPIB" solution.

http://prologix.googlepages.com/gpibusb.jpg/gpibusb-full.jpg
is a picture of one available (and relatively inexpensive)
approach.

Sparkfun carries the newer, 4.2 version; I've use the bare-board
rev 3 (the one pictured) with success for some automated lab\
test equipment.

The Prologix adapters are unique, in that they use
standard serial-port communication from the computer
(USB-to-serial) and add a serial-to-GPIB (IEEE-488)
interface with a microprocessor. This means you
write standard serial-port programs to communicate
with your GPIB device, without using GPIB drivers.
For example, you can use raw PowerBasic or whatever.
The Prologix adapters are also inexpensive, the new
4.2 model comes in a nice box for $150.
http://prologix.googlepages.com/

 

[Winfield]

On Feb 19, 12:48 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message

news:8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com...

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet.

USB to GPIB and Ethernet to GPIB converters are the probably the last products
that will ever be commercially developed for GPIB.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

No, although from having written test programs to talk to GPIB devices I
suspect it's quite massive and somewhat convoluted.

---Joel

Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.

 

[Winfield]

JB wrote:

"robb" wrote
That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ? Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip
and connectors or is there more to it?

I think you'd be better just getting an NI USB-GPIB converter.
It's not just the hardware compatibility that's important,
depending on what software you're using, robust and well
tested drivers are critical.

Yes, if you want to use prepackage GPIB software.
They're available on eBay. One problem, there's
not much of software around for older instruments.
That may be where Prologix adapters and serial-port
communication could come in (see my other post).

 

[krw]

In article <8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:44:56 -0500, Rich Webb
bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:41:02 -0500, "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote:

That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is there more to it
?

AFAIK, there is no single-chip "USB/GPIB" solution.

http://prologix.googlepages.com/gpibusb.jpg/gpibusb-full.jpg> is a
picture of one available (and relatively inexpensive) approach.

Sparkfun carries the newer, 4.2 version; I've use the bare-board rev 3
(the one pictured) with success for some automated lab test equipment.

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet. You can buy an entire Ethernet server gadget, like an
Xport, for half the price of a GPIB cable, and it will work 1000 miles
from your computer.

It should never have been born! What a hunk of junk.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

Yes. Didn't make it work any better though. What a mess.

--
Keith

 

[Joerg]

Winfield wrote:

JB wrote:
"robb" wrote
That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ? Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip
and connectors or is there more to it?
I think you'd be better just getting an NI USB-GPIB converter.
It's not just the hardware compatibility that's important,
depending on what software you're using, robust and well
tested drivers are critical.

Yes, if you want to use prepackage GPIB software.
They're available on eBay. One problem, there's
not much of software around for older instruments.
That may be where Prologix adapters and serial-port
communication could come in (see my other post).

Do you use the Prologix? If so, does it work well to get screen prints
and stuff?

It's $150 a pop (both direct and via Sparkfun).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

Winfield wrote:

On Feb 19, 12:48 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com
wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message

news:8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com...

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet.
USB to GPIB and Ethernet to GPIB converters are the probably the last products
that will ever be commercially developed for GPIB.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?
No, although from having written test programs to talk to GPIB devices I
suspect it's quite massive and somewhat convoluted.

---Joel

Compared to USB or Firewire, it's simple.

But the hardware sure isn't.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

none wrote:

Joerg wrote:
mike wrote:
Joerg wrote:
snip


Where do you find them? EBay was dry. All I really want to do is
print the screen contents, not control anything in the lab.


Make sure you don't already have this capability.
My TEK scope has a menu buried in the menus that will print
a bitmap graphic of the screen out the serial port.


Well, the HP3577 does offer an HPGL output and AFAIR you could
actually connect one of those old HP printers directly to it. But it
does not have a serial port :-(


I won't call it GPIB, 'cause it's not anywhere near a GPIB
implementation. But if all you want is to send/receive
simple commands to a single GPIB instrument via a serial port,
you can do it with
a PIC processor and a couple of level translators for the serial port.
No part of it complies fully with ANY spec. Stated another way,
it VIOLATES EVERY spec. But it works for me.
Built it specifically to create an on-screen demo of a TEK TDS540
that I was trying to sell at a swapmeet. I set out to write a
Visual Basic Class module with the same API as the National Instruments
GPIB drivers, but don't remember what happened with that. Got bored
and moved on to something else.


Whatever works to get the HPGL image out would be fine.

For the software side, look at the program from KE5FX called hp7470.
It captures plots over the gpib and lets you manipulate, compare and
store them. I use this with my 8753, 8757, 8569 and 8562 analyzers.
It supports the NI and Prologix gpib boards. I have been meaning to
try it with one of the NI gpib-serial boxes I have sitting around.
Those boxes are cheap and plentiful. Since the Prologix uses a
serial port emulator, there may be a chance.

By the way, on your other post about ebay, search for either E2050*
or E2050A. If you leave the A off, you will not find any matches.

Thanks. Yep, that showed it. Along with fashion socks and other stuff ;-)

Seems they now run silent auctions there as well. It appears the
Prologix solution would be a bit simpler though. I'll never understand
why HP picked that dreaded GPIB bus in the first place, with its
expensive garden hose cables and all that. The site of KE5FX is very
interesting. In case others want to look:
http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/gpib/readme.htm

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[none]

Joerg wrote:

mike wrote:
Joerg wrote:
snip


Where do you find them? EBay was dry. All I really want to do is
print the screen contents, not control anything in the lab.


Make sure you don't already have this capability.
My TEK scope has a menu buried in the menus that will print
a bitmap graphic of the screen out the serial port.


Well, the HP3577 does offer an HPGL output and AFAIR you could actually
connect one of those old HP printers directly to it. But it does not
have a serial port :-(


I won't call it GPIB, 'cause it's not anywhere near a GPIB
implementation. But if all you want is to send/receive
simple commands to a single GPIB instrument via a serial port,
you can do it with
a PIC processor and a couple of level translators for the serial port.
No part of it complies fully with ANY spec. Stated another way,
it VIOLATES EVERY spec. But it works for me.
Built it specifically to create an on-screen demo of a TEK TDS540
that I was trying to sell at a swapmeet. I set out to write a
Visual Basic Class module with the same API as the National Instruments
GPIB drivers, but don't remember what happened with that. Got bored
and moved on to something else.


Whatever works to get the HPGL image out would be fine.

For the software side, look at the program from KE5FX called hp7470.

It captures plots over the gpib and lets you manipulate, compare and
store them. I use this with my 8753, 8757, 8569 and 8562 analyzers.
It supports the NI and Prologix gpib boards. I have been meaning to
try it with one of the NI gpib-serial boxes I have sitting around.
Those boxes are cheap and plentiful. Since the Prologix uses a
serial port emulator, there may be a chance.

By the way, on your other post about ebay, search for either E2050*
or E2050A. If you leave the A off, you will not find any matches.

Doug

 

[Joerg]

Fred Bartoli wrote:

Joerg a écrit :
Fred Bartoli wrote:
Joerg a écrit :
John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:44:56 -0500, Rich Webb
bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:41:02 -0500, "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote:

That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is there more to it
?
AFAIK, there is no single-chip "USB/GPIB" solution.

http://prologix.googlepages.com/gpibusb.jpg/gpibusb-full.jpg> is a
picture of one available (and relatively inexpensive) approach.

Sparkfun carries the newer, 4.2 version; I've use the bare-board
rev 3
(the one pictured) with success for some automated lab test
equipment.

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet. You can buy an entire Ethernet server gadget, like an
Xport, for half the price of a GPIB cable, and it will work 1000 miles
from your computer.


Agree. However, there is lots of legacy gear that will be around for
another decade or two. Like the HP-3577. It would be nice not to
have to snap a digital camera picture every time.



Yup. But get hold of a LAN-GPIB gateway (HP E2050A sell for not much)
rather than a local bus GPIB card and you'll be ready for the next
ISA/PCI/PCI express/whatever bus shift.


Where do you find them? EBay was dry. All I really want to do is print
the screen contents, not control anything in the lab.



Yep, ebay. I paid USD35 (+73 shipping).

There're 2 for best offer right now. I find them way too high (a new
E5810A sells for $1000) but if your not hard pressed they pop up from
time to time, so just place a search and wait.

I'll have to look again. I've never bought anything there yet and when I
keyed in E2050 all I got was some kind of ear rings. And I don't wear
ear rings ;-)

I too don't control everything in the lab (the soldering iron isn't).

Seriously, here almost every thing is permanently connected and this has
been paid back many many times. Maybe it's worth a second thought...

I only need screen dumps.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

mike wrote:

Joerg wrote:
snip


Where do you find them? EBay was dry. All I really want to do is print
the screen contents, not control anything in the lab.


Make sure you don't already have this capability.
My TEK scope has a menu buried in the menus that will print
a bitmap graphic of the screen out the serial port.

Well, the HP3577 does offer an HPGL output and AFAIR you could actually
connect one of those old HP printers directly to it. But it does not
have a serial port :-(

I won't call it GPIB, 'cause it's not anywhere near a GPIB
implementation. But if all you want is to send/receive
simple commands to a single GPIB instrument via a serial port,
you can do it with
a PIC processor and a couple of level translators for the serial port.
No part of it complies fully with ANY spec. Stated another way,
it VIOLATES EVERY spec. But it works for me.
Built it specifically to create an on-screen demo of a TEK TDS540
that I was trying to sell at a swapmeet. I set out to write a
Visual Basic Class module with the same API as the National Instruments
GPIB drivers, but don't remember what happened with that. Got bored
and moved on to something else.

Whatever works to get the HPGL image out would be fine.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joel Koltner]

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in message
news:13rltud50nuv655@corp.supernews.com...

That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

The hardware design for a USB to GPIB converter is pretty straightforward --
here's one: http://lpvo.fe.uni-lj.si/gpib/. The much more time-consuming
problem -- as Paul mentions -- is that writing drivers to the level of
robustness that the folks like National Instruments or HP have done is quite
time consuming. If you want to build such a dongle for fun or largely
self-contained projects, though, this perhaps isn't a problem.

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is there more to it
?

There's more to it... GPIB isn't popular enough anymore for someone to make a
single-chip interface for it.

---Joel

 

[Joel Koltner]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:8f2mr3t13pel5aobev2ijao7rvs4b3gmhd@4ax.com...

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet.

USB to GPIB and Ethernet to GPIB converters are the probably the last products
that will ever be commercially developed for GPIB.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

No, although from having written test programs to talk to GPIB devices I
suspect it's quite massive and somewhat convoluted.

---Joel

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:58:19 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:44:56 -0500, Rich Webb
bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:41:02 -0500, "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote:

That is something like the Prologix USB to GPIB
convertor/controller ?

Is this a USB/GPIB IC chip and connectors or is there more to it
?

AFAIK, there is no single-chip "USB/GPIB" solution.

http://prologix.googlepages.com/gpibusb.jpg/gpibusb-full.jpg> is a
picture of one available (and relatively inexpensive) approach.

Sparkfun carries the newer, 4.2 version; I've use the bare-board rev 3
(the one pictured) with success for some automated lab test equipment.

Seems to me that GPIB is, and should be, dying. Everything should just
be Ethernet. You can buy an entire Ethernet server gadget, like an
Xport, for half the price of a GPIB cable, and it will work 1000 miles
from your computer.

Ever read the actual IEEE GPIB spec?

John

My Commodore PET 2001 (despite the name it's ca. 1979) does GPIB..

Like this one: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/pet/h/p20018.jpg

At least nobody will be able to hack into the control for a HV power
supply and electrocute anyone..
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com