Interesting ...

[Arfa Daily]

EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405

Arfa

 

[N_Cook]

On 02/01/2015 14:56, Arfa Daily wrote:

EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa

There is a shop in town that is all LED strip lighting. So far no
failures noticed, but I will estimate the total number of LEDs and
monitor over time. I would guess , sitting here, something like 20,000
5mm LEDs in total (not the higher powered types). I feel like running a
red/orange felt-tip along all
the cover-strips of the LED runs, as its that horrible stark blue-white.
Doesn't take much pen ink to give a much warmer tone (to CFL bulbs anyway)

This article has soldering as a dying art along with trug making etc

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/dec/30/traditional-skills-endangered-heritage-craft

perhaps they meant soldering as in tin-smithing.
But on the other hand how much hands-on soldering rework of modern day
mass electronics production is there?

 

[Andy Burns]

N_Cook wrote:

This article has soldering as a dying art along with trug making etc

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/dec/30/traditional-skills-endangered-heritage-craft

perhaps they meant soldering as in tin-smithing.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDUzWDY0MA==/z/CMgAAOxyLm9TDdVl/$_12.JPG

But on the other hand how much hands-on soldering rework of modern day
mass electronics production is there?

Probably just rework on any dead items at the end of the line (if has
sufficient value) or attaching the big lumpy stuff like connectors and
transformers.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

In sci.electronics.repair mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

On 1/2/2015 6:56 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa
I've never had a CFL failure that I could trace to the CFL.
It's always the electronics driving it. A power glitch can take
out a LED just as easily as a CFL.

I've had a couple CFLs burn out at the bulb from old age. Most had
electronic failures, or jsut broke.

The longest lasting CFL may be one in my bathroom with 10 years of
on-off use. I'd have to remove it to checked the purchase date I write on
them though.

 

[Jerry Peters]

In sci.electronics.repair Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
On 1/2/2015 6:56 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa
I've never had a CFL failure that I could trace to the CFL.
It's always the electronics driving it. A power glitch can take
out a LED just as easily as a CFL.

I've had a couple CFLs burn out at the bulb from old age. Most had
electronic failures, or jsut broke.

The longest lasting CFL may be one in my bathroom with 10 years of
on-off use. I'd have to remove it to checked the purchase date I write on
them though.

I've had a few CFL's fail due to electronics failure, but the newer
bulbs last longer. Unfortunately as they age they get dimmer. Looking
at an aged bulb I noticed that the phosphor layer has turned a brownish
color.

I did have one failure that when I took it apart, 1 of the wires to to
the flourescent was disconnected & the others were questionable.
Soldered them all & re-assembled the bulb and it's still in use in the
basement bathroom.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

In sci.electronics.repair Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
On 1/2/2015 6:56 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa
I've never had a CFL failure that I could trace to the CFL.
It's always the electronics driving it. A power glitch can take
out a LED just as easily as a CFL.

I've had a couple CFLs burn out at the bulb from old age. Most had
electronic failures, or jsut broke.

The longest lasting CFL may be one in my bathroom with 10 years of
on-off use. I'd have to remove it to checked the purchase date I write on
them though.

I've had a few CFL's fail due to electronics failure, but the newer
bulbs last longer. Unfortunately as they age they get dimmer. Looking
at an aged bulb I noticed that the phosphor layer has turned a brownish
color.

I'd have to agree that the newer ones seem a bit better. They've figured
out how make them as simple as possible now is my guess.

I did have one failure that when I took it apart, 1 of the wires to to
the flourescent was disconnected & the others were questionable.
Soldered them all & re-assembled the bulb and it's still in use in the
basement bathroom.

they're still useless for outdoor cold use. The ones outside by the stairs
are like nightlights when the temps drop to freezing. It's amazing they
even start.

I'm not a fan of the warm up period they take, even indoors.

 

[Phil Allison]

Capitol wrote:

Iteresting, my outside CFLs are over 35yrs old and start down to -8C
without fail.

** The CFLs on sale in the 1980s used iron ballasts and most had replaceable bulbs. When used as outdoor night lights on a premises, bulb lifespan is 1 to 2 years or about 8000 hours.

My newer CFLs, die like flies in comparison, particularly
in glass globe fittings.

** The last CFL I used as a night light lasted 4 years.

Naturally, it was cycled only once per day and that is the secret.


..... Phil

 

[alan_m]

On 02/01/2015 14:56, Arfa Daily wrote:

EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa

The electronics don't have 100 components as stated and as LED lighting
becomes more widespread the support circuits will be integrated into
fewer components.

While the support electronics may be less reliable than the LED itself
other factors such as running the devices at elevated temperatures is
more likely to shorten the life. Elevated temperatures will occur if
the bulb is in an inappropriate fitting (inappropriate for a LED bulb)

If you applied the authors logic to LED backlit TVs 1 in 4 would have
already failed.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

 

[William Sommerwerck]

His basic premise makes sense -- more components = lower reliability -- but
the fact is that one can easily find electronic devices 50 and 60 years old
that have never been serviced that continue to work. Members of this group
probably own them.

A failure rate of 1 in 10,000 (per year?) strikes me as unduly pessimistic,
even for devices used in vacuum tube equipment. Solid-state -- which almost
always operates at lower voltages and temperature -- should be even more
reliable.

I own devices that contain far more components than an LED bulb -- yet they do
not drop like flies. Flat-panel TVs are a good example. CU says the reported
breakdown rate is extremely low (3% for a few brands is on the high end), and
advises against purchasing service contracts.

Though the point he raises is valid, and not only deserves, but requires,
study, you can't assume these products fail prematurely simply because they
contain "too many parts". Why they failed is more important. I wouldn't be
surprised if it was due to SMD soldering failure.

 

[mike]

On 1/2/2015 6:56 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:

EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa

I've never had a CFL failure that I could trace to the CFL.
It's always the electronics driving it. A power glitch can take
out a LED just as easily as a CFL.

Lifetime guarantee. If you can find where to send it and pay
more in shipping it back than the cost of replacement.
And it's not the lifetime of the light. It's the lifetime
of the supplier.

Home lamps are designed for cheap,cheap,cheap,
not for reliability. But it will get better over time.

I always giggle at flashlights that say you never replace the LED,
over 20,000 hour life, etc.
The elephant in the room is that in most cheap designs, they
put the LED directly across three batteries and hope the battery
resistance increases faster than the time it takes to melt the light.
And the better designs have a dozen high-stress parts in
some regulator.

I sawed a free harbor freight flashlight in half and soldered it
back together to make an extension. Put an 18650 in an extended light.
Really bright. Replacing three 1.5V with one 4.2V oughta work, right?
Not for long...but far longer than I expected. Put one ohm in series
and it looks like life might be ok. ;-) Still pretty bright.
There's a reason they ship with heavy duty batteries.

Home Depot has some really great deals if you watch closely.
I bought 44 40W LED's when they were 4 for $5.05 and replaced
most of my CFL. Turns out that two 40's in a Y-adapter was
way cheaper than a 60W and had better light dispersion.
Then they had 60W at 3 for $6.97 to replace 12 of the 40's.
Then they had 75W at ONE CENT. I bought all 8 of them to replace
some of the 60's.

There's no possible financial reason for doing that.
I tell myself that the LED's should last longer in applications
where you switch them on and off a lot. But I put LED's in fixtures
I haven't turned on in years. Don't judge me...I'm saving the planet...

In the attic, I have about a hundred used incandescents, right
next to the hundred CFL's, right next to all the spare LED's
I bought but never used.
Right next to the box of flashlights I couldn't help buying.
And I still mine Home Depot for LED deals. I need to go
to rehab for LED abuse.

Often we do stuff because we can, not because we should.

If I remember correctly, if you combine the MTBF of all the components,
the probability of system failure within the system MTBF is 37%.

Are we having fun yet?

 

[Rod Speed]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Qkypw.703472$CW3.143099@fx07.am4...

EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405

Mindlessly superficial.

If that mindlessly superficial approach was correct,
we'd all be using a pencil instead of computers.

 

[Rod Speed]

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:m86csv$8eo$1@dont-email.me...

On 02/01/2015 14:56, Arfa Daily wrote:
EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa

There is a shop in town that is all LED strip lighting. So far no failures
noticed, but I will estimate the total number of LEDs and monitor over
time. I would guess , sitting here, something like 20,000 5mm LEDs in
total (not the higher powered types). I feel like running a red/orange
felt-tip along all
the cover-strips of the LED runs, as its that horrible stark blue-white.
Doesn't take much pen ink to give a much warmer tone (to CFL bulbs anyway)

This article has soldering as a dying art along with trug making etc
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/dec/30/traditional-skills-endangered-heritage-craft

Just more mindlessly silly journalism.

There might be only one person still making denim
on that soggy little island, but plenty in china.

> perhaps they meant soldering as in tin-smithing.

Corse they did and they're wrong about that too.

But on the other hand how much hands-on soldering rework of modern day
mass electronics production is there?

Quite a bit actually. Forget what they were making but
someone posted a link to a youtube of a factory in china
making something like a video camera or something.

Lots of hand soldering going on.

 

[Phil Allison]

mike wrote:

I've never had a CFL failure that I could trace to the CFL.

** Really? That puts you in a minority of one.

The most common CFL failure is the tube heaters going open - most are rated for only 1 to 2 thousand switch on cycles. Ones that light up quickly and tolerate low temps better seem to be the poorest at this.

All other failures I have seen are the result of the electronics section running too hot causing capacitor failure, particularly electro and EMI suppression caps.

A great many ceiling fixtures are not well suited to CFL or LED lamps cos they trap heat.


> It's always the electronics driving it.

** Not true in general.

A power glitch can take
out a LED just as easily as a CFL.

** Power glitch = what ??

A line voltage spike lasting less than a mS or a hit by lighting ?

The typically 4 to 22uF electro in the DC supply absorbs brief spikes nicely and most indirect effects of lightning too.

..... Phil

 

[Vir Campestris]

On 02/01/2015 15:19, N_Cook wrote:

There is a shop in town that is all LED strip lighting. So far no
failures noticed, but I will estimate the total number of LEDs and
monitor over time.

Our office has been up-and-running for less than 6 months. I don't know
when it was fitted out, but the LED lights in the conference rooms are
on clever circuits so they come on only when they are used - and our
floor was empty.

One of them has died. Not the LEDs, but the driver - it's a square
luminaire with LEDs on each side, and one side flashed.

Andy

 

[Rod Speed]

"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:m8720h$4l6$1@reader1.panix.com...

In sci.electronics.repair Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
On 1/2/2015 6:56 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa
I've never had a CFL failure that I could trace to the CFL.
It's always the electronics driving it. A power glitch can take
out a LED just as easily as a CFL.

I've had a couple CFLs burn out at the bulb from old age. Most had
electronic failures, or jsut broke.

The longest lasting CFL may be one in my bathroom with 10 years of
on-off use. I'd have to remove it to checked the purchase date I write
on
them though.

I've had a few CFL's fail due to electronics failure, but the newer
bulbs last longer. Unfortunately as they age they get dimmer. Looking
at an aged bulb I noticed that the phosphor layer has turned a brownish
color.

I'd have to agree that the newer ones seem a bit better. They've figured
out how make them as simple as possible now is my guess.

I did have one failure that when I took it apart, 1 of the wires to to
the flourescent was disconnected & the others were questionable.
Soldered them all & re-assembled the bulb and it's still in use in the
basement bathroom.

they're still useless for outdoor cold use. The ones outside by the stairs
are like nightlights when the temps drop to freezing. It's amazing they
even start.

I'm not a fan of the warm up period they take, even indoors.

I like it with the bedhead light. You don’t get the same
blinding effect when you turn it on in the dark.

 

[Capitol]

Cydrome Leader wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Jerry Peters<jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair Cydrome Leader<presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair mike<ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
On 1/2/2015 6:56 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa
I've never had a CFL failure that I could trace to the CFL.
It's always the electronics driving it. A power glitch can take
out a LED just as easily as a CFL.

I've had a couple CFLs burn out at the bulb from old age. Most had
electronic failures, or jsut broke.

The longest lasting CFL may be one in my bathroom with 10 years of
on-off use. I'd have to remove it to checked the purchase date I write on
them though.

I've had a few CFL's fail due to electronics failure, but the newer
bulbs last longer. Unfortunately as they age they get dimmer. Looking
at an aged bulb I noticed that the phosphor layer has turned a brownish
color.

I'd have to agree that the newer ones seem a bit better. They've figured
out how make them as simple as possible now is my guess.

I did have one failure that when I took it apart, 1 of the wires to to
the flourescent was disconnected& the others were questionable.
Soldered them all& re-assembled the bulb and it's still in use in the
basement bathroom.

they're still useless for outdoor cold use. The ones outside by the stairs
are like nightlights when the temps drop to freezing. It's amazing they
even start.

I'm not a fan of the warm up period they take, even indoors.

Interesting, my outside CFLs are over 35yrs old and start down to -8C
without fail. My newer CFLs, die like flies in comparison, particularly
in glass globe fittings. I reckon some CFLs have as short a life as
filament bulbs, even when running cool..

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message news:m8720h$4l6$1@reader1.panix.com...

> I'm not a fan of the warm up period they take, even indoors.

Recent models come to full brightness quickly.

 

[alan_m]

On 02/01/2015 21:09, Jerry Peters wrote:

I've had a few CFL's fail due to electronics failure,

+1
http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/bulb/


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

 

[Jon Elson]

Arfa Daily wrote:

EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-
lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405

Arfa

Yup, a lot of the consumer-grade LED lighting, at least, is
crap! Some of it is even a FIRE hazard!

I made my own LED retrofits. Not cheap, but they are working well.
I measured the power draw of the ANCIENT magnetic ballasts for
a two-lamp 48" fluorescent at 101 W. The replacement with
20 Cree "1 W" LEDs draws a measured 21 W. I used a commercial
LED lighting power supply from Digi-key. I have 3 units installed
with these Cree LEDs so far (first one was only 10 LEDs and a
home-made power supply) and I am really happy with them.

Jon

 

[Cydrome Leader]

In sci.electronics.repair Capitol <spam@wher.eva.co.uk> wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair Jerry Peters<jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair Cydrome Leader<presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair mike<ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
On 1/2/2015 6:56 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
EE Times article that came to me by email today

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405


Arfa
I've never had a CFL failure that I could trace to the CFL.
It's always the electronics driving it. A power glitch can take
out a LED just as easily as a CFL.

I've had a couple CFLs burn out at the bulb from old age. Most had
electronic failures, or jsut broke.

The longest lasting CFL may be one in my bathroom with 10 years of
on-off use. I'd have to remove it to checked the purchase date I write on
them though.

I've had a few CFL's fail due to electronics failure, but the newer
bulbs last longer. Unfortunately as they age they get dimmer. Looking
at an aged bulb I noticed that the phosphor layer has turned a brownish
color.

I'd have to agree that the newer ones seem a bit better. They've figured
out how make them as simple as possible now is my guess.

I did have one failure that when I took it apart, 1 of the wires to to
the flourescent was disconnected& the others were questionable.
Soldered them all& re-assembled the bulb and it's still in use in the
basement bathroom.

they're still useless for outdoor cold use. The ones outside by the stairs
are like nightlights when the temps drop to freezing. It's amazing they
even start.

I'm not a fan of the warm up period they take, even indoors.

Interesting, my outside CFLs are over 35yrs old and start down to -8C
without fail. My newer CFLs, die like flies in comparison, particularly
in glass globe fittings. I reckon some CFLs have as short a life as
filament bulbs, even when running cool..

35 years old? That thing must have been belt driven.

The oldest ones I saw were 1990-ish and from panasonic, with a huge
magnetic ballast. It was large, stupid and didn't fit in most fixtures. I
can't recall what the life was, but it was put together well with lots of
glass and silicone goop. There's no way in hell it was cheaper than a box
of incandescent bulbs, especially when you factor in the part where
electricity itself isn't really that expensive in the US.