Integral fire alarms in electronic goods?

[Brian Sandle]

What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in consumer electronics
goods?

Do TVs cause many fires? Computers?

Where people are lax about installing fire alarms in their houses would
alarms in comsumer goods save anything?

Who would be the stakeholders?
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[Peter Zavon]

And what would you do with all those false alarms resulting from tobacco
smoke or kitchen cooking?

My impression is that TV's and computers have a very low rate of fire
initiation.

What detection technology would you use? The same as in smoke detectors?
Are we going to have to deal with small radioactive sources in our toasters
and televisions? Seems to me this is a great way to force unwanted
additional complexity on people.

--
Peter Zavon, CIH
Penfield, NY

"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote in message
news:1073697518.572060@cobalt.caverock.co.nz...

What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in consumer electronics
goods?

Do TVs cause many fires? Computers?

Where people are lax about installing fire alarms in their houses would
alarms in comsumer goods save anything?

Who would be the stakeholders?
--
Please remove `shell' to reply.


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[Dave C.]

"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote in message
news:1073697518.572060@cobalt.caverock.co.nz...

What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in consumer electronics
goods?

Do TVs cause many fires? Computers?

Where people are lax about installing fire alarms in their houses would
alarms in comsumer goods save anything?

You've GOT to be kidding. Smoke alarms cause too many false alarms. The
last thing we need when the wife burns the pot roast is to have to search
for three hours for the manual to our TV to learn how to turn off the smoke
alarm. -Dave

 

[Gel]

Yes they do show up in UK stats, as do Tumble Driers/wsashing machines

Look here at links page~
www.smoke-alarms.co.uk
and you can get access to pdf's of Government stats on sources of
fires in home & general useful info on site too.


"Dave C." <spammersdie@ahorribledeath.now> wrote in message news:<TZ-dnZf1KeJox2Ki4p2dnA@comcast.com>...

"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote in message
news:1073697518.572060@cobalt.caverock.co.nz...
What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in consumer electronics
goods?

Do TVs cause many fires? Computers?

Where people are lax about installing fire alarms in their houses would
alarms in comsumer goods save anything?

You've GOT to be kidding. Smoke alarms cause too many false alarms. The
last thing we need when the wife burns the pot roast is to have to search
for three hours for the manual to our TV to learn how to turn off the smoke
alarm. -Dave

 

[Wolfgang Ruettinger]

"Peter Zavon" <pzavon@rochester.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1TILb.56670$Dq1.14693@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

And what would you do with all those false alarms resulting from tobacco
smoke or kitchen cooking?

My impression is that TV's and computers have a very low rate of fire
initiation.

Of course not. Especially TV's in stand-by causes many fires in the night.

I think it's a good idea to install a fire detector in all TV's.



Wolfgang

 

[Ken]

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:50:31 +0100, "Wolfgang Ruettinger"
<ruett@web.de> wrote:

And what would you do with all those false alarms resulting
from tobacco smoke or kitchen cooking?
My impression is that TV's and computers have a very low rate
of fire initiation.

Of course not. Especially TV's in stand-by causes many fires in the night.
I think it's a good idea to install a fire detector in all TV's.

Use the main switch on the TV!

--
+ Ken +

 

[do_not_spam_me]

Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote in message news:<1073697518.572060@cobalt.caverock.co.nz>...

What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in
consumer electronics goods?

Do TVs cause many fires? Computers?

Fires caused by TVs and monitors are virtually a thing of the past,
thanks to highly fire resistant cabinet materials having been required
in the U.S. since the early 1970s. About the only way they cause
fires any more is when their power cords overheat or arc.

I believe that other consumer electronic devices also have fire
resistant cabinets, but I'm not sure. Internal electrical and
electronic components are almost always fire resistant, but with
computers any clear cases, except from major computer manufacturers,
like Apple, are made of ordinary acrylic, a plastic that burns very
well, a are case windows. Even some desktop internal computer power
supplies are now made with clear plastic cases, and while at least one
company claims to use fire-resistant plastic, I doubt that this is
true with plastic covers sold on the aftermarket.

 

[do_not_spam_me]

"Dave C." <spammersdie@ahorribledeath.now> wrote in message news:<TZ-dnZf1KeJox2Ki4p2dnA@comcast.com>...

The last thing we need when the wife burns the pot roast is to
have to search for three hours for the manual to our TV to
learn how to turn off the smoke alarm.

Since the air flow should be very consistent inside a TV, unlike
throughout a house, false alarms shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Brian Sandle]

In sci.electronics.repair do_not_spam_me <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote:

Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote in message news:<1073697518.572060@cobalt.caverock.co.nz>...

What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in
consumer electronics goods?

Do TVs cause many fires? Computers?

Fires caused by TVs and monitors are virtually a thing of the past,
thanks to highly fire resistant cabinet materials having been required
in the U.S. since the early 1970s.

Maybe not so in every country. In New Zealand furniture does not have to
meet the same specs as Britain. But then do their specs stop fires caused
by radiant heaters or gas heaters?

About the only way they cause

fires any more is when their power cords overheat or arc.

I believe that other consumer electronic devices also have fire
resistant cabinets, but I'm not sure. Internal electrical and
electronic components are almost always fire resistant, but with
computers any clear cases, except from major computer manufacturers,
like Apple, are made of ordinary acrylic, a plastic that burns very
well, a are case windows. Even some desktop internal computer power
supplies are now made with clear plastic cases, and while at least one
company claims to use fire-resistant plastic, I doubt that this is
true with plastic covers sold on the aftermarket.

What are the battery cords like on computers in various countries? And
phones? The plugs do seem rather tiny here.

I put 2 AA NiMH cells in a torch and it wouldn't work, but I got a hot
smell. I found that when the bulb was a little loose then the batteries
were shorted. And the torch was switched on a varied in focus by a
screwing action, which would tend to loosen the bulb. Those batteries can
supply rather a high current. Anyone else noticed any potential fire
trouble from rechargeable batteries?


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[Me]

In article <1073697518.572060@cobalt.caverock.co.nz>,
Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:

What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in consumer electronics
goods?

A waste of money.

Do TVs cause many fires? Computers?

A relative had a TV blow up once. It was an old tube set. You can
usually tell when an electronic item is going bad; its transformer
starts to smell. There are plenty of signs before any electronic
item becomes danagerous and most do not have the capability to go
up in flames. I have been working in the computer field for nearly
twenty years. My employer owns an average of 20,000 desktop systems
and not once in all that time with all those systems has any of them
erupted in flames.

 

[Dave C.]

A relative had a TV blow up once. It was an old tube set. You can
usually tell when an electronic item is going bad; its transformer
starts to smell. There are plenty of signs before any electronic
item becomes danagerous and most do not have the capability to go
up in flames. I have been working in the computer field for nearly
twenty years. My employer owns an average of 20,000 desktop systems
and not once in all that time with all those systems has any of them
erupted in flames.

I've seen computer power supplies throw HUGE sparks off, though. Might be a
problem if there was newspaper or something stacked up nearby. Still, the
odds of a computer starting a fire are about as good as lightning starting a
fire inside your house. -Dave

 

[Miles]

"Me" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-11DA57.07480010012004@comcast.ash.giganews.com...

In article <1073697518.572060@cobalt.caverock.co.nz>,
Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:

What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in consumer
electronics
goods?

A waste of money.

The money would be better spent in preventive measures to reduce the
probability of fire in the first place (e.g. particular care with design
details relating to power control/standby circuits)

Do TVs cause many fires? Computers?

A relative had a TV blow up once. It was an old tube set. You can
usually tell when an electronic item is going bad; its transformer
starts to smell. There are plenty of signs before any electronic
item becomes danagerous and most do not have the capability to go
up in flames. I have been working in the computer field for nearly
twenty years. My employer owns an average of 20,000 desktop systems
and not once in all that time with all those systems has any of them
erupted in flames.

Very helpful statistic, thanks. Out of interest, what time frame is this
observation over? (1 year, 5 yrs, 10 yrs?). I've heard some companies
make similar observations of "no fires" (this was in a power generation
rather than an IT business, but I know from sources closer to the action
that in the particular businesses, there were two fires in a 5 year period
in one part of the organisation (but the rest of the organisation apparently
never heard about either fire). I'd be interested to know how
geographically spread your business is, and how confident are you that there
has been 100% reporting of any fire or similar equipment melt-down?

Thanks.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Brian Sandle" wrote...

...Anyone else noticed any potential fire
trouble from rechargeable batteries?

Sure. Don't ever carry a 9v battery in your pocket full
of coins! We used to start campfires with a 1.5v dry
cell out of the flashlight (torch) and a strand of steel
wool. Worked great.

 

[James Sweet]

"Wolfgang Ruettinger" <ruett@web.de> wrote in message
news:btoldd$9fu7v$1@ID-100956.news.uni-berlin.de...

"Peter Zavon" <pzavon@rochester.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1TILb.56670$Dq1.14693@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
And what would you do with all those false alarms resulting from tobacco
smoke or kitchen cooking?

My impression is that TV's and computers have a very low rate of fire
initiation.

Of course not. Especially TV's in stand-by causes many fires in the night.

I think it's a good idea to install a fire detector in all TV's.



Wolfgang

*In* TV's? It's a good idea to install a smoke detector in every room that's
separated by a doorway, but not nessesary to put one inside the TV itself,
just put it on the ceiling over the TV and it'll detect smoke from anything
in the room.

 

[Carey Gregory]

"Dave C." <spammersdie@ahorribledeath.now> wrote:

Still, the
odds of a computer starting a fire are about as good as lightning starting a
fire inside your house. -Dave

Bad example. Lightning can and does cause fires inside houses by sending
massive surges through internal wiring and appliances. I've seen that
happen several times, but I've never seen (or even heard of) a computer or
TV causing a fire on its own.

 

[Don Klipstein]

In <1073737028.430455@cobalt.caverock.co.nz>, Brian Sandle wrote in part:

In sci.electronics.repair <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote:

I put 2 AA NiMH cells in a torch and it wouldn't work, but I got a hot
smell. I found that when the bulb was a little loose then the batteries
were shorted. And the torch was switched on a varied in focus by a
screwing action, which would tend to loosen the bulb. Those batteries can
supply rather a high current. Anyone else noticed any potential fire
trouble from rechargeable batteries?

That 15 minute charger (for their specially rated "I-C3" NiMH cells)
from Radio Shack is a little scary to me. It would have to push 8 amps
through a 2-AH AA cell to recharge it in 15 minutes. The label on the
back says "output 1.6V 15A" (it charges 1 or 2 cells). It feels awfully
light for something that puts out that amount of power. It appears to
me cheap ($30 including 2 AA 2-AH NiMH cells) for a device with the
required sort of switching supply technology needed for a device that
light to do what this thing does (rated 120-240 VAC input also). It has a
fan whose speed sounds a little unsteady. And the one I bought was not
working, so I had to exchange it.
I would only use this thing when I was around to unplug it and drop it
in my kitchen sink if it changes from a battery charger to a smoke
generator.

In general it is not advised to short batteries. Some have warnings of
fire hazard from shorting. Many batteries may overheat enough to leak if
shorted, and many have caustic chemicals in them. The least caustic
battery chemistry that I am aware of is that of cheap non-rechargeable
non-alkaline ones, and I have seen it corrode metals something fierce
sometimes. Such batteries have manganese dioxide, which can make black
smudgy stains that I have yet to remove with anything but moderately
strong acids.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

What are the thoughts about installing fire alarms in consumer electronics
goods?

Personally speaking, I don't like the idea. There are too many ways for such
an integrated device to fail, and at least one poster has asked a valid
question--what to do with the small amount of radioactive material it would
require to build such a circuit into a device?

Already nearly all electronic devices have fuses, thermal sensors or other
devices that will usually shut the device down immediately without risk of
fire.

Do TVs cause many fires?

I won't say it doesn't happen, because TV sets can get really dusty inside,
but I've never seen or heard of a TV set catching on fire.

Computers?

In all my years with computers, I've never had one catch on fire. The most
that has ever happened was a printer that had a problem and started dumping
out tons of acrid smoke. But there was no fire at any point that I know of.
Just smoke from plastic in the case breaking down.

Computer power supplies are usually very well protected with all units
having fuses or "crowbar" short protection on the outputs. Some units are
also able to sense their temperature and shut down should it become too hot.

Where people are lax about installing fire alarms in their houses would
alarms in comsumer goods save anything?

It's possible. But what about false alarms or a failure of the alarm to
function? Then you have issues of annoyance and --even worse-- issues where
people may sue you into oblivion because the smoke detector didn't do its
job.

William

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

I've seen computer power supplies throw HUGE sparks off, though.

How was this accomplished? I don't doubt that it's possible, but I've got to
wonder why the "crowbar" circuit didn't kick in immediately before anything
happened.

Still, the odds of a computer starting a fire are about as good as
lightning starting a
fire inside your house.

The odds of this happening are actually quite good, better than most folks
might think they are. Ask almost anyone who lives out in the country. At the
very least there is usually lots of smoke when a device gets bit by
lightening.

William

 

[CJT]

Brian Sandle wrote:
<snip> Anyone else noticed any potential fire

trouble from rechargeable batteries?

As I recall, there have been some well publicized recalls of battery
packs for notebook PCs that were prone to catch fire.

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After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have
concluded we must conceal our e-mail address. Our true address is the
mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol. It's a shame such
steps are necessary. ...Charlie

 

[Anon]

I've seen computer power supplies throw HUGE sparks off, though.

How was this accomplished? I don't doubt that it's possible, but I've got
to
wonder why the "crowbar" circuit didn't kick in immediately before
anything
happened.

Beats the heck out of me. It was a good name-brand power supply that was
very highly rated, also. Had a friend complain that it wouldn't power up
and smelled like smoke. (oh sh ...) I had it delivered to her daughter's
apartment, I went over to look at it. No obvious problems, so I plugged it
in and turned it on and jumped about 6 feet straight back. The flash was so
intense it burnt a negative image of my terrified face on the opposite wall.
Just kidding. It was quite a fireworks show, though. Loud bang with
massive electrical arcing and lots of smoke. I immediately unplugged it and
went to disassemble it and it was really HOT. The outside of the fan cage
had that freshly charred look about it. (!) I thought the whole thing was
toast at that point. Whatever happened to the power supply, it fried the
hard drive and CD-Rom drive. Get this . . . the motherboard/CPU/RAM were
all FINE!!! Replaced the power supply and the drives and it's still going
strong a couple years later. If that power supply had any kind of
protection circuits, maybe the protection circuits needed protection.
(!) -Dave