Install two coils increases gas mileage.

[RAM]

Small planes have magnetos, not coils

In article <MP-dnXVxLqMbMpTdXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>, kevins@dontspamme.net
says...

That's not necessarily true. If you have ever been in a small plane and
switched from one mag to another to both you will notice an instant RPM
change.

KS

"Robert Hancock" <hancockr@nospamshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:q84Ob.138156$X%5.134518@pd7tw2no...
Unless the ignition system is not powerful enough to ignite the fuel
properly and is misfiring (in which case there's probably something
broken),
this is not going to help anything.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/


"Tibur Waltson" <Toush@hi.com> wrote in message
news:c6a813f8d180a4f7bd5d356c6aba6d75@news.bubbanews.com...
The sparks in my car isn't as strong as I want it to be. I have an
ignition coil and an ignition module that I will hook up to the car.
The coils will install in parallel.

The grounding of the other coil will trigger the second ignition
module. This will give it two coils. I thought maybe two coils
are stronger than one and should increase gas mileage. Will this work?

Tibur
--Honda Accord 89

 

[Kevin]

and your point is... ?

KS
"RAM" <rmunley@comcast.netnospam> wrote in message
news:AxyOb.93339$8H.136757@attbi_s03...

Small planes have magnetos, not coils

In article <MP-dnXVxLqMbMpTdXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>, kevins@dontspamme.net
says...


That's not necessarily true. If you have ever been in a small plane and
switched from one mag to another to both you will notice an instant RPM
change.

KS

"Robert Hancock" <hancockr@nospamshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:q84Ob.138156$X%5.134518@pd7tw2no...
Unless the ignition system is not powerful enough to ignite the fuel
properly and is misfiring (in which case there's probably something
broken),
this is not going to help anything.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/


"Tibur Waltson" <Toush@hi.com> wrote in message
news:c6a813f8d180a4f7bd5d356c6aba6d75@news.bubbanews.com...
The sparks in my car isn't as strong as I want it to be. I have an
ignition coil and an ignition module that I will hook up to the car.
The coils will install in parallel.

The grounding of the other coil will trigger the second ignition
module. This will give it two coils. I thought maybe two coils
are stronger than one and should increase gas mileage. Will this
work?

Tibur
--Honda Accord 89

 

[sammmm]

in the plane, it's because the engine has two spark plugs per cylinder.
the idea is redundancy. ther are some autos with two plugs per cylinder,
too.
the parallel coils will not like ly help and will probably cause failure of
one of the
modules if not both.
sammmm, commercial, instrument, single engine land

--
toys:
diesel BMW motorcycle, homebuilt electric motorcycle, gold wing trike, honda
gyros, dodge diesel dualie, fiat osca 1500 cabriolet,
W3CYO/R, 145.49, 224.40, 443.300 mhz. repeaters.


"Kevin" <kevins@dontspamme.net> wrote in message
news:MP-dnXVxLqMbMpTdXTWc-g@speakeasy.net...

That's not necessarily true. If you have ever been in a small plane and
switched from one mag to another to both you will notice an instant RPM
change.

KS

"Robert Hancock" <hancockr@nospamshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:q84Ob.138156$X%5.134518@pd7tw2no...
Unless the ignition system is not powerful enough to ignite the fuel
properly and is misfiring (in which case there's probably something
broken),
this is not going to help anything.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/


"Tibur Waltson" <Toush@hi.com> wrote in message
news:c6a813f8d180a4f7bd5d356c6aba6d75@news.bubbanews.com...
The sparks in my car isn't as strong as I want it to be. I have an
ignition coil and an ignition module that I will hook up to the car.
The coils will install in parallel.

The grounding of the other coil will trigger the second ignition
module. This will give it two coils. I thought maybe two coils
are stronger than one and should increase gas mileage. Will this work?

Tibur
--Honda Accord 89

 

[L0nD0t.$t0we11]

Roughly 1/18/04 18:51, sammmm's monkeys randomly typed:

in the plane, it's because the engine has two spark plugs per cylinder.
the idea is redundancy. ther are some autos with two plugs per cylinder,
too.
the parallel coils will not like ly help and will probably cause failure of
one of the
modules if not both.
sammmm, commercial, instrument, single engine land

Would expect the twin coils might offer a bit of a load
problem to a stock ignition control module. However, the
concept of modifying the stock module [or designing one]
to fire the two coils in reasonably close sequence might
have merit. A good design would adjust the firing closer
together as rpm increases. Whether the particular engine
would benefit from a second spark just after ignition has
begun, dunno. A separate plug fired after a short delay
was used in the 1936 american motors nash engine...

--
Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of
mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade...

 

[Tibur Waltson]

"Neil Nelson" <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
"Tibur Waltson" <Toush@hi.com> wrote:

Isn't it exciting to see me fry something.

Dunno... Which episode(s) of Jackass were you on?

"Human Car Wash"
"Glue Helmet Test"
"Beard of Leeches"

Looks to me like you're out $1100.00

Saved $27,000 on college tuition last year.

 

[Dick C]

Tibur Waltson wrote in rec.autos.tech

The sparks in my car isn't as strong as I want it to be. I have an
ignition coil and an ignition module that I will hook up to the car.
The coils will install in parallel.

The grounding of the other coil will trigger the second ignition
module. This will give it two coils. I thought maybe two coils
are stronger than one and should increase gas mileage. Will this work?

Having looked at the drawing you provide, I can see a problem or 2,
and I don't think that this will help at all. Possibly cause more
problems.
First of all, manufacturers have to build engines and components to
be able to meet certain standards as far as longevity, emissions and
fuel economy go. While the stock system is not optimal it is robust
and reliable. Now, the ignition coils and plugs do not affect that
to a great degree. If they provide a hot enough spark for the fuel
to ignite, then they are doing all that they can do. A hotter spark
is not going to help very much, if at all.
In the late 60's there was an advantage to moving from points to
a capacitive discharge system. And that had more to do with not
having to worry about points wearing out or burning than anything.
Now that all cars have computer controlled pointless ignition systems
there is little to wear out.
As far as burning fuel goes, and this is what your idea is all about,
your car gets a mixture of gasoline and air into each cylinder. It is
then squeezed and the spark plug fires, creating a fast burning flame
that increases pressure on the cylinder, forcing it down. If you get
a spark strong enough to ignite the fuel mixture, any more will not
help. Will a match or a propane torch or an acetylene torch do a better
job of igniting a gas any better?
The problem lies not in the ignition but in what is being ignited.
To increase performance you could probably do a better job of mixing
the fuel so it will burn more evenly, or provide more air, so that
the computer will provide a corresponding increase in gas. Or both.
And finally you could use a different fuel that would burn hotter,
Nitro comes to mind.
Now, as far as your design goes, it cannot give you any help.
An ignition coil is nothing more than a transformer. A transformer
has 2 coils of wire surrounding a magnetic core. It works by having
a changing current in one coil cause a changing magnetic field.
That field will induce voltage in the other coil. The amount of
current, and voltage, depend upon the number of windings in each
coil. If you have more windings in the primary coil than the secondary
coil, then you will have greater current, but lower voltage. If you
have more windings in the secondary, then the voltage will be higher
and the current will be lower.
In an ignition coil, the secondary (going to the plugs) has a lot
more windings than the primary. Thus you have a high voltage, but low
current spark. You need the high voltage to jump from the electrode
to the ground of the spark plug. And the heat from the spark will ignite
the fuel in the cylinder.
In your design, if the timing is off even a little bit your voltage
will feed back into the second coil, preventing electricity from
flowing through it, possibly even inducing a current that will damage
or destroy the controller.
If they fire at exactly the same time (within milli seconds of each
other) then the best you could hope for is the same voltage and twice
the current. Which will do nothing to help ignite the fuel, and will
actually burn up the spark plug a lot faster. With the added problems of
splicing the spark plug wires together. Spark plug wires are not made
for splicing, they will fail in a big hurry.
The only way this could help is if you ran your coils to 2 different
spark plugs in the same cylinder. The problem with that, aside from
having to pull the head, drill and tap it, and replace it, is the
fact that the head was designed to work with one plug in the position
it is in. If all is well it already burns all the fuel, and that is
the most you could hope for. If your plugs are a nice golden brown,
and you pass emissions, then playing with your ignition will not
get you anything. If your car is not burning all the fuel, then you
have problems somewhere that need to be addressed. Ranging from
a dirty air cleaner to dirty sensors, to a worn out engine that needs
to be rebuilt.
If your engine is good, and it is tuned properly, then in order to
improve performance you need to increase air flow, and fuel to the
engine, then change the length of time the valves are open and closed.
But, nothing is going to give you a massive increase in horsepower,
except for a massively bigger engine.

And one of the fun things about cars from the 50's and 60's was how
mediocre the various components were, performance wise. And how easy
it was to get a huge increase in horsepower by changing those
components.

--
Dick #1349
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it."
Andre Gide, French author and critic (1869-1951).
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email: dickcr@localnet.com

 

[jonpi]

this really is not going to do much if anything

better to think of vaporizing your gasoline before it gets to the
cylinder ... here you'll see real benefits

the spark is the spark that gets burning going...if the second coil
sparked a spark in another location with another plug...that would do
something...but again, vaporize your fuel more completely is the way to
get your moneys worth out of your ever decreasing in size gas can.

gasoline is supposed to go to the 3 dollar a gallon point this
summer..finally...
it is well documented that the pollution kings will not slow down
without someone clubbing them on the head a few times...

hey that's america
hey that's stupidity

reply to

president@whitehouse.gov

 

[L0nD0t.$t0we11]

Roughly 1/21/04 00:32, jonpi's monkeys randomly typed:

this really is not going to do much if anything

better to think of vaporizing your gasoline before it gets to the
cylinder ... here you'll see real benefits

the spark is the spark that gets burning going...if the second coil
sparked a spark in another location with another plug...that would do
something...but again, vaporize your fuel more completely is the way to
get your moneys worth out of your ever decreasing in size gas can.

Perhaps. Back when Delta [of Grand Junction] solid state
ignitions were replacing Judson magnetos in hot rods, there
was a specialty ignition system invented by a radar engineer
that used a radar style pulse transformer and an oscillator
style exciter for spark. The ignition signal from the points
was used merely to gate and time the multiple sparks that
this system generated. In a theoretical perfect ignition
sequence, one optimal spark would start a flame front which
would propagate perfectly across the combustion area. In
a practical engine, additional sparks even in the same location
may be able to start additional ignitions that reduce
unburned fuel.




--
Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of
mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade...

 

[Daniel Rudy]

And somewhere around the time of 01/18/2004 02:16, the world stopped and
listened as Tibur Waltson contributed the following to humanity:

"Boris Mohar" <borism@sympatico.ca> wrote in message

Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote:

If you parallel the coil, the output will halfen.

That is not correct. Tibur should explain how did he determine that
the coil "isn't as strong as I want it to be."


Here, take a look at the contraption circuits:

http://tinyurl.com/2r8lu -move mouse over pic-

The coil isn't as strong as I want it to be because the sparks are very
faint compared to other cars. It looks blue-orange and you could see
right thru them. It's amazing that it burns fuel and not missing, actually it
was missing couple days earlier until I replace with new plugs.

Normally it shouldn't miss because I only had the plugs (the ones taken
out) 7-8-thousand miles. The new coil contraption was meant as a
diagnostic jig... or perhaps, increase gas mileage.

Tibur
89 Accord-lxi 270K mi.

You may want to re-post this in rec.autos.tech. From what you are
describing, your car has a distributor ignition system. In addition to
replacing the plugs, have you checked/replaced the wires between the
distributor and coil/plugs? Have you checked the distributor cap and
rotor? All these things can contribute to a weak spark. Have the plugs
been gapped properly? An over gapped plug will cause a miss if the coil
can't put out the voltage to jump the gap. A gap that is too narrow
will cause a loss of power.

--
Daniel Rudy

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