In market for widescreen CRT tv.

[Rod Speed]

flyinyereye <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:408d9ec0$0$8786$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Gadgets <info@shop.gadgetaus.com> wrote

Grundig TVs are no longer manufactured...

Where did you get that from ?

Looks like he might be right

http://www.grundig.com/presse.grundig/unternehmensmeldungen/Beko_Alba_uebern
immt_Grundig/index.html

Even if they have stopped making them, it doesn't
make any difference if you buy one now...

Yeah, that's what I meant by the 'legally' comment that followed that one.

the Australian company will likely still
be here to cover the two year warranty,

Not completely clear on that given that that part of the Grundig
operation has been sold, particularly when buying one now.

and after that you're on your own, just like any purchase.

Dunno, in theory parts might be worse
problem than say with a Samsung etc.

Funnily enough, I just checked the receipt for
my set, and my warranty ran out last week.

Uh oh, that means it should fail this week |-)

 

[Rod Speed]

Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote in message
news:408d9fa9$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

I meant does it automatically notice when what is broadcast
is in 4:3 format with black bars at the top and botttom due
to the original being in 16:9 and automatically resize the
display so you dont see the black bars.

I suspect that the market for it is too small

Dunno, I would have thought it wouldnt be that small.

I'm thinking time rather than units -- with the gradual
move to widescreen for production, it shouldn't be too
long before most newer programmes will be widescreen.

Sure, and its certainly true that quite a bit of the newer
stuff like say Foreign Correspondent has clearly been
produced in 16:9 format, in many ways that means that
there will be even more demand to be able to display it
without the black bands when its broadcast in 4:3 analog
FTA terrestrial format for quite a while to come yet.

Still, it'd be interesting to see if someone can come up
with something. I find that crop detection can get a bit
tricky sometimes, specifically when it's a dark picture.
You can end up losing a lot of the image if you're not
careful, and I've yet to see an automatic system that
doesn't need at least a little human intervention to
check that it really did get it right.

Sure, I wouldnt mind human override using the remote but
would prefer that it does at least attempt to guess for itself.

But it might be OK if you had some way to force it to re-evaluate
the cropping. If the picture looks too weird, hit the appropriate
button and see if it comes good. If it worked nine times out of
ten it'd probably be good enough, so long as you could turn it off.

Yeah, thats basically what I had in mind.

I've basically decided to go for a low end 16:9 system,
but 100Hz would be handy if it doesnt cost too much more.

Might well go for one of those Grundig runouts on ebay.

 

[Gadgets]

On 26-Apr-2004, "flyinyereye" <spam@spam.com> wrote:

I wonder if you can back up that statement with any proof.

I could if I bothered to search postings here some months back, or the
Grundig press releases online, but I can't... I only remembered what I
wanted to - don't expect parts down the track... and expect retailers to be
getting rid of stock...

Also Sony have stopped CRT production... can't be bothered proving that one
either!

Cheers, Jason (remove shop to reply)
Macrovision Disablers: http://gadgetaus.com
DVD Rentals online: http://webflicks.com.au/?u=47905

 

[flyinyereye]

"Gadgets" <info@shop.gadgetaus.com> wrote in message
news:c6luli$80v$1@perki.connect.com.au...

On 26-Apr-2004, "flyinyereye" <spam@spam.com> wrote:
I wonder if you can back up that statement with any proof.

I could if I bothered to search postings here some months back, or the
Grundig press releases online, but I can't... I only remembered what I
wanted to - don't expect parts down the track... and expect retailers to
be
getting rid of stock...

While Grundig has been in administration for the last year or so, they were
still operating and sold their television production unit to Beko of Turkey
in January -- so if they paid E60m for a factory they were going to shut
down in less than three months I'd be very surprised.

Also Sony have stopped CRT production...

I'm aware of that as well. Does that mean people shouldn't buy Sony CRTs?

 

[Gadgets]

Grundig ... sold their television production unit to Beko of Turkey

ie you'd be buying a Turkish Beko TV... not a European made Grundig... the
whole quality control system has changed, much like when Teac went cheap and
started cutting corners 10 or so yrs ago.

Also Sony have stopped CRT production...
I'm aware of that as well. Does that mean people shouldn't buy Sony CRTs?

Maybe... just something to think about if you expect to have the same TV for
10 yrs. If your view is only 3 years, then enjoy the bargains now and sell
off your set before its components start to age. Just an opinion!

My next set will still be a CRT because of price, contrast, sharpness etc
and if I could afford it, it would be a Sony... I think old Sonys would be
easier to source parts for than a Grundig? I also dislike the Euro penchant
for RGB and SCART over direct component connections.

Cheers, Jason (remove shop to reply)
Macrovision Disablers: http://gadgetaus.com
DVD Rentals online: http://webflicks.com.au/?u=47905

 

[flyinyereye]

"Gadgets" <info@shop.gadgetaus.com> wrote in message
news:c6o2qg$ke9$1@perki.connect.com.au...

Grundig ... sold their television production unit to Beko of Turkey

ie you'd be buying a Turkish Beko TV... not a European made Grundig... the
whole quality control system has changed, much like when Teac went cheap
and
started cutting corners 10 or so yrs ago.

Given that they were only laying off 100 of the 400 staff, I'd say the
factory is staying in Germany. Well, at least for now. People also said
Denon went downhill when they stopped manufacturing in Japan and moved to
South Korea to cut costs. All companies are going to cut costs to increase
profitability. Even Sony. That's simply a fact of life.

My next set will still be a CRT because of price, contrast, sharpness etc
and if I could afford it, it would be a Sony... I think old Sonys would
be
easier to source parts for than a Grundig?

Well, maybe you think your Sony will actually need replacement parts. I
don't beliecve my Grundig will.

I also dislike the Euro penchant
for RGB and SCART over direct component connections.

What's wrong with RGB and SCART? They're simply European tradition, whereas
Asian manufacturers prefer component via RCA.

While I admit my Grundig telly was a bit of an impulse purchase two years
ago I don't regret it at all. The picture is bloody fantastic. I've just
bought a Grundig DVD player to go with it (not so much because of the brand
but because of its RGB-SCART capability which not a lot of DVD players here
have)... and also I have a Topfield digital STB which also does RGB via
SCART. I have the DVD connected via the STB, leaving the TV's only other
SCART connector free for S-Video from my PC.

I don't think RGB is worse than component -- certainly not significantly
so -- and it looks a damn sight better than S-Video. You just have to choose
components that go together to give you the best results.

 

[Rod Speed]

Gadgets <info@shop.gadgetaus.com> wrote in
message news:c6o2qg$ke9$1@perki.connect.com.au...

Grundig ... sold their television production unit to Beko of Turkey

ie you'd be buying a Turkish Beko TV... not a European made Grundig...

Remains to be seen if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

One striking thing about the current runouts of Grundig TVs is the
utterly bizarre range of models. No wonder that operation went bust.

the whole quality control system has changed,

You dont know that yet. According to Grundig Aust,
Beko hasnt decided where they will manufacture TVs yet.

much like when Teac went cheap and
started cutting corners 10 or so yrs ago.

You dont know that Beko will cut corners.

If they just did something about the utterly bizarre range of models
made and concentrated on say just one in each CRT size, and made
that in the same factory that made the previous bizarre range, they
might be economically viable if the models compete with the Japs.

Corse its less clear how long it will be before the chinese start
pumping out decent high end CRT TVs with 100Hz etc technology.
If the do that soon, no european operation can compete with that.

Also Sony have stopped CRT production...

I'm aware of that as well. Does that mean people shouldn't buy Sony CRTs?

Maybe... just something to think about if you expect to have the same TV
for 10 yrs. If your view is only 3 years, then enjoy the bargains now and
sell off your set before its components start to age. Just an opinion!

Its more technology than 'starts to age'

There is a clear reason for decent widescreen 100Hz technology now
what with DVD so cheap and decent digital terrestrial broadcasting.

In 5 years large thin TVs may well have replaced the CRTs, not
because the CRT TVs have worn out, just because they are more
convenient mechanically, like we are currently seeing with PC monitors.

My next set will still be a CRT because of price, contrast, sharpness etc

Yeah, I still go that way with big PC monitors.

and if I could afford it, it would be a Sony... I think old
Sonys would be easier to source parts for than a Grundig?

Who knows ? Not even clear what Beko will be doing parts wise.

I also dislike the Euro penchant for RGB and
SCART over direct component connections.

 

[Rod Speed]

Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote in message
news:408c8ed7$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

I meant does it automatically notice when what is broadcast
is in 4:3 format with black bars at the top and botttom due
to the original being in 16:9 and automatically resize the
display so you dont see the black bars.

Do any models?

No idea, thats essentially what I was asking.

Cant see any technical difficulty with doing it.

I suspect that the market for it is too small -- that is,
it won't be an issue for long enough to give sufficient
return -- for anyone to take the trouble to do it.

Looks like I may well have stuffed that up rather comprehensively.

I did eventually decide that it would be worth having 100Hz on
a TV that I hope will last me at least 10 years if it doesnt cost
a huge amount extra over the 68cm widescreens without it.

Also decided that while Grundig getting out of manufacturing TVs
is a real downside, it does provide an opportunity to get that sort
of thing for a lower price and hopefully the local service agent
who happens to be a son of a mate of mine going back decades
should still able to fix it if it breaks and I cant fix it myself.

Just got an Elegance MFW 82 3110 Widescreen off
ebay yesterday, refurb with 6 months Grundig warranty.

Was just putting the details into the database today
and had a closer look at some of the documentation
on the grundig au site this morning. Came across this
http://www.grundig-australia.com/produkte/tv/piktoinfo.html

16:9 Format/PALplus
The 16:9 picture sides ratio is the TV format of the future.
With Grundig 16:9 TVs conventional 4:3 programmes or
old wide format movies can be shown in perfect full-size.
The Panorama Zoom Variable can adjust the picture on the
screen both vertically and horizontally, without the proportions
of the important middle part of the picture being altered. Thus
you see a full-sized picture without any disturbing black margins.

which appears to be what I want on that.

But needless to say, the model I bought doesnt appear to have that |-(

Oh well, I also plan to do my own tivo or close and hopefully
I should be able to massage what I capture to produce the
same result. I watch almost nothing live anyway except the ABC TV
News, so it doesnt really matter much that the TV cant do it itself.

Main problem is that the cheapest ones dont even have 100Hz etc.

Yeah, the bottom of the pile is pretty limited. Once you get
to around the $2k mark you start getting a reasonable feature set.

And quite a bit less than that with the Grundig runouts.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:2g7o8cF5beouU1@uni-berlin.de...

Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

I meant does it automatically notice when what is broadcast
is in 4:3 format with black bars at the top and botttom due
to the original being in 16:9 and automatically resize the
display so you dont see the black bars.

Do any models?

No idea, thats essentially what I was asking.

Cant see any technical difficulty with doing it.

I suspect that the market for it is too small -- that is,
it won't be an issue for long enough to give sufficient
return -- for anyone to take the trouble to do it.

Looks like I may well have stuffed that up rather comprehensively.

Not quite so badly as I first thought.

I did eventually decide that it would be worth having 100Hz on
a TV that I hope will last me at least 10 years if it doesnt cost
a huge amount extra over the 68cm widescreens without it.

Also decided that while Grundig getting out of manufacturing TVs
is a real downside, it does provide an opportunity to get that sort
of thing for a lower price and hopefully the local service agent
who happens to be a son of a mate of mine going back decades
should still able to fix it if it breaks and I cant fix it myself.

Just got an Elegance MFW 82 3110 Widescreen off
ebay yesterday, refurb with 6 months Grundig warranty.

Was just putting the details into the database today
and had a closer look at some of the documentation
on the grundig au site this morning. Came across this
http://www.grundig-australia.com/produkte/tv/piktoinfo.html

16:9 Format/PALplus
The 16:9 picture sides ratio is the TV format of the future.
With Grundig 16:9 TVs conventional 4:3 programmes or
old wide format movies can be shown in perfect full-size.
The Panorama Zoom Variable can adjust the picture on the
screen both vertically and horizontally, without the proportions
of the important middle part of the picture being altered. Thus
you see a full-sized picture without any disturbing black margins.

which appears to be what I want on that.

But needless to say, the model I bought doesnt appear to have that |-(

Turns out that while the model I bought doesnt have that, it
does do that anyway. Basically there is an automatic format
which does just that, and done one hell of a good job of it too.

You can also lock it in 4:3 or 16:9 or '14:9 zoom' too.

With a couple of extras, Panoramic zoom and Cinema
zoom which zoom in a bit from the 16:9 format.

Oh well, I also plan to do my own tivo or close and hopefully
I should be able to massage what I capture to produce the
same result. I watch almost nothing live anyway except the ABC TV
News, so it doesnt really matter much that the TV cant do it itself.

Main problem is that the cheapest ones dont even have 100Hz etc.

Yeah, the bottom of the pile is pretty limited. Once you get
to around the $2k mark you start getting a reasonable feature set.

And quite a bit less than that with the Grundig runouts.

 

[Patrick Dunford]

In article <2g7o8cF5beouU1@uni-berlin.de>, rod_speed@yahoo.com says...

Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote in message
news:408c8ed7$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

I meant does it automatically notice when what is broadcast
is in 4:3 format with black bars at the top and botttom due
to the original being in 16:9 and automatically resize the
display so you dont see the black bars.

Do any models?

No idea, thats essentially what I was asking.

Cant see any technical difficulty with doing it.

I suspect that the market for it is too small -- that is,
it won't be an issue for long enough to give sufficient
return -- for anyone to take the trouble to do it.

Looks like I may well have stuffed that up rather comprehensively.

I did eventually decide that it would be worth having 100Hz on
a TV that I hope will last me at least 10 years if it doesnt cost
a huge amount extra over the 68cm widescreens without it.

Also decided that while Grundig getting out of manufacturing TVs
is a real downside, it does provide an opportunity to get that sort
of thing for a lower price and hopefully the local service agent
who happens to be a son of a mate of mine going back decades
should still able to fix it if it breaks and I cant fix it myself.

Is Grundig still in business?

I gather some other German brands like Blaupunkt and Telefunken went bust
and were sold to Asian outfits who use them to relabel junk, not the high
quality stuff they were formerly reknowned for.

 

[flyinyereye]

"Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b19bd18a66176259897f1@news.paradise.net.nz...

In article <2g7o8cF5beouU1@uni-berlin.de>, rod_speed@yahoo.com says...


Also decided that while Grundig getting out of manufacturing TVs
is a real downside, it does provide an opportunity to get that sort
of thing for a lower price and hopefully the local service agent
who happens to be a son of a mate of mine going back decades
should still able to fix it if it breaks and I cant fix it myself.

Is Grundig still in business?

EU approves venture for bankrupt Grundig
BRUSSELS, April 29 (Reuters) - The European Commission on Thursday approved
plans for the core business of insolvent German consumer electronics firm
Grundig to be sold to a joint venture of Britain's Alba Plc (LSE: ABA.L -
news) and Turkey's Beko Elektronik .

"The notified deal, which does not concern Grundig's production assets, does
not raise any competition problems in the European television market," the
European Union executive said in a statement.

The plans for the sale of the development and marketing operations of
Grundig were approved by an insolvency administrator in January.

The joint venture planned to pay around 80 million euros ($94.62 million)
for the unit, which includes Grundig televisions, hi-fi systems and video
recorders. The unit employs about 400 people.

Creditor banks, which include Deutsche Bank (Xetra: 514000.DE - news) ,
Dresdner Bank and Bayerische Landesbank (Munich: 802108.MU - news) , have
unanimously agreed to the sale.

The unit will be run by Hubert Roth, who in a 26-year career with Grundig
most recently ran sales and marketing. Roth said it was possible the unit
could return to profit this year.

Turkish television maker Beko is a subsidiary of Turkish industrial group
KOC Holding .

Beko manufactures and sells mainly non-branded colour television sets to
other manufactures, while Alba does not produce consumer electronics
products but sources them from third parties for sale in Europe.



http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/040429/80/escmb.html

 

[Rod Speed]

"Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message news:MPG.1b19bd18a66176259897f1@news.paradise.net.nz...

In article <2g7o8cF5beouU1@uni-berlin.de>, rod_speed@yahoo.com says...

Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote in message
news:408c8ed7$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Matt McLeod <matt@boggle.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

I meant does it automatically notice when what is broadcast
is in 4:3 format with black bars at the top and botttom due
to the original being in 16:9 and automatically resize the
display so you dont see the black bars.

Do any models?

No idea, thats essentially what I was asking.

Cant see any technical difficulty with doing it.

I suspect that the market for it is too small -- that is,
it won't be an issue for long enough to give sufficient
return -- for anyone to take the trouble to do it.

Looks like I may well have stuffed that up rather comprehensively.

I did eventually decide that it would be worth having 100Hz on
a TV that I hope will last me at least 10 years if it doesnt cost
a huge amount extra over the 68cm widescreens without it.

Also decided that while Grundig getting out of manufacturing TVs
is a real downside, it does provide an opportunity to get that sort
of thing for a lower price and hopefully the local service agent
who happens to be a son of a mate of mine going back decades
should still able to fix it if it breaks and I cant fix it myself.

Is Grundig still in business?

Not the TV business, its been flogged to some Turkish operation now.

I gather some other German brands like Blaupunkt and Telefunken
went bust and were sold to Asian outfits who use them to relabel
junk, not the high quality stuff they were formerly reknowned for.

Yeah, we've seen the same thing with some of our brands too.

The TV I bought was made by Grundig tho.

 

[Alex]

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:40:41 +1200, Patrick Dunford
<patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote:


(sorry about continuing the crosspost, get over it)

I meant does it automatically notice when what is broadcast
is in 4:3 format with black bars at the top and botttom due
to the original being in 16:9 and automatically resize the
display so you dont see the black bars.

My current TV has an auto mode which does this, but I never use it,
since it's not quite clever enough. It senses the advertisements which
are in 4:3 (received on a 16:9 set top box) as 4:3, and goes about
switching aspects all the time.

I did eventually decide that it would be worth having 100Hz on
a TV that I hope will last me at least 10 years if it doesnt cost
a huge amount extra over the 68cm widescreens without it.

100Hz is a good feature, IMHO.

I ended up with a Thomson scenium 76cm widescreen about 18 months ago
(it was the pick of the punch in terms of image quality, and I got a
free digital STB). Unfortunately, I've been waiting for it to come
back from the extended warranty repairers for almost 10 weeks.
It developed a focus problem (there wasn't much of it).

The wait is allegedly because they are waiting for parts from
overseas.

For that reason alone, I probably wouldn't recommend getting a
Thomson.



Alex.
Ernie and bert don't live in my email address.

 

[Rod Speed]

Alex <lisalexernie@bertiinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:2imdb05kuu8ha49cueh889tp2lbfdid7mp@4ax.com...

I meant does it automatically notice when what is broadcast
is in 4:3 format with black bars at the top and botttom due
to the original being in 16:9 and automatically resize the
display so you dont see the black bars.

My current TV has an auto mode which does this,
but I never use it, since it's not quite clever enough.

Turns out that the Grundig I bought works very well indeed on that.

The only time I have seen it not quite clever enough is with
stuff on an LP VCR tape which is pretty marginal stability
wise so you have to use the manual tracking on the VCR
to get a stable picture vertical hold wise, and that ends up
with some noise in the bottom black band with 16:9 material
broadcast in 4:3 format on analog FTA TV. It appears to
decide that that isnt 16:9 format and leaves the black bands.

No big deal since thats what you would get without auto anyway
and you can just set it to forced 16:9 format to get rid of that.

It senses the advertisements which are
in 4:3 (received on a 16:9 set top box)

Not quite sure what you mean by that.

as 4:3, and goes about switching aspects all the time.

I do record the stuff that matters using an Aurora satellite feed
for the higher image quality and the Grundig handles that fine.

I did eventually decide that it would be worth having 100Hz on
a TV that I hope will last me at least 10 years if it doesnt cost
a huge amount extra over the 68cm widescreens without it.

100Hz is a good feature, IMHO.

True, tho I did end up spending quite a bit more to get that.

I would have anyway with the auto 16:9 4:3 format switching, it just
wasnt obvious from the Grundig documentation that it would do that.

I ended up with a Thomson scenium 76cm widescreen about 18
months ago (it was the pick of the punch in terms of image quality,
and I got a free digital STB). Unfortunately, I've been waiting for it
to come back from the extended warranty repairers for almost
10 weeks. It developed a focus problem (there wasn't much of it).

OK, that is an important consideration for me because
I'm not in a capital city and the freight cost of shipping
these huge heavy TVs around is considerable.

I do have a local authorised service agent, who happens
to be one of the kids of someone I have worked with for
decades, so that should be handy if I cant fix it myself.

Remains to be seen what will happen with
Grundig parts availability tho, bit of a gamble.

The wait is allegedly because they are waiting for parts from overseas.

For that reason alone, I probably wouldn't recommend getting a Thomson.

Yeah, real downside.