I finally emptied & cleaned & refilled & balanced the pool -

[sms]

On 5/28/2014 10:58 PM, Danny D. wrote:

gonjah wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 19:34:55 -0500:

I have a small backyard with a 10,000 gal pool and deck.
I think it's easier to care for than grass.

The maintenance task is a bit more difficult than most for me.

For one, I don't know why pill bugs LOVE my pool so much!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3742/14101840660_e8ccf7a462_z.jpg

And, for another, I don't have any of the right tools.
For example, this is the only "pool vacuum" I own:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/14105502020_5de40a3c18_c.jpg

And, this Craftsman sump pump just impotently dribbles!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/14288460005_edd92c725c_z.jpg

It drives me crazy that 1/2 horsepower takes about an hour
to fill up a 5-gallon bucket when the inlet end is immersed
in water the entire time!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2902/14101791829_8be1770d6b_z.jpg

You'd think Craftsman tools would work better than that!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/14101828108/

Another maintenance task is applying the huge amount of
chlorine to the pool in various forms:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2908/14265343766_fc5922732f_b.jpg

So, all in all, I wouldn't wish pool maintenance on my
worst enemy; but maybe I just need the right tools.

NOTE: If you have any idea WHY that 1/2 Horsepower Craftsman
pump sucks so badly, please let me know (because it makes
maintenance manual when it should be automatic!).

Your problems all feed on each other. If you fill the pool in one day
you don't need to be adding chlorine or CYA or calcium as you go along.
Do you have "city water" or just a well? It costs a lot to fill a pool
with "city water" but there are some advantages.

Where I grew up, in Florida, most houses had wells for sprinkler systems
but no one used that water for pool filling. And you couldn't really
drain your pool completely because it would pop out of the ground
<http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/10/11/pedraza-family-pool-pops-up/>.

 

[DannyD.]

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:25:48 -0700:

I use a Harbor Freight pump for draining. I think the seals dry out on
unused pumps. The two times I've drained the pool have been with new
pumps since after I drain it, the pump sits unused for about seven years.

Hmmm... that might be the problem then, because this Craftsman 1/2HP pump
just won't pump. I don't remember how it pumped when new, but, I don't
remember it being anemic at that time. So, maybe I just need 'new seals'.

Googling for "Craftsman U27-1358, 1/2 Horsepower portable utility sprinkler
pump", I find it for $175 here:
http://searsoutlet.com/1-2-hp-Portable-Utility-Sprinkler-Pump/d/product_details.jsp?pid=13592&mode=seeAll

According to the specs at that web page, it's supposed to pump 9.3 gallons
a minute, but I'd be lucky to get that in an hour!

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-horsepower-submersible-dirty-water-pump-with-float-69300.html>.
Then a 25% off coupon so it's less than $48.

Wow. That's a huge amount cheaper than my sprinkler pump (whatever a
sprinkler pump means).

The key thing to remember when draining and refilling a pool is to
always drain the deep end first and refill the deep end first.

???

I'm not sure if you're joking, or if that's a typo, or what.
There is no way to drain either end of a pool, that I know of.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2931/14288493524_c08c586110_b.jpg

It's all just one pool (with a sloped floor):
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/14292131745_4619f60787_b.jpg

It fills at the deep end first, but, that's only because no matter
*where* you fill it from, the whole thing is sloped to the deep
end (since the entire pool is built around the cleaning system).
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3785/14332355943_8f58d60248_b.jpg

 

[sms]

On 5/31/2014 11:40 AM, DannyD. wrote:

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:25:48 -0700:

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt. They said it was because Hasa changed
ownership and the new owners aren't offering the stores the same
promotions as in the past.

Hi Steve,

You know, those two guys who work there? They scare me. I don't know
if I believe a thing they say. But, they told me that HASA didn't
like them undercutting everyone else, so, it's a relatively similar
story to what they told you.

LOL, they are some strange dudes that's for sure.

What I believe is what they tell me they use in the pools that they
service. Ask them what's in those ginormous plastic tanks on the
pallets, it's the bulk chemicals they use for pool servicing. Orenda
CV700 or PR10000. Depending on lunar tides they might sell you some in
your own container but they have no idea how to price it.

I think that their pool service business is based on liquid chlorine,
liquid acid, phosphate remover (PR-10000), and borate (Pool Perfect).

I've learned never to show up at 10am opening time for them.
About half the time, they don't arrive there until 11am. So you
(and a few others) wait in the parking lot for them to arrive.

Yep, I've run into that exact thing. They have no set hours for the
store. My feeling is that the retail store is almost an annoyance and
that the big money is in pool service. Once you have a pool balanced,
and you've got Pool Perfect or borax in the water, there's very little
work to do for weekly service, especially if the owner has an automatic
cleaner, and especially if they have a chlorine feeder or salt system.
Yet in Saratoga not a lot of people want to maintain their own pool and
$75/month is chump change.

They tell me they do that when "Dave" (whoever that is) is on
vacation. Dunno what is going on, but it always seems fishy.

Also, when I pay cash, the cash register drawer opens, but, nothing
gets rung up. Now, you don't have to tell me what that means, but,
if they're not paying their taxes, they shouldn't be charging *me*
the $1.80 for the tax on the case of "free" chlorine they're giving
me (for buying many gallons).

Yeah, see the same thing at a lot of small restaurants.

 

[Oren]

On Sat, 31 May 2014 18:40:47 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
<DannyD@is.invalid> wrote:

>Maybe I should try the BBB method myself!

I'm starting it. Got a pro test kit. (Taylor K-2005C)

This guy is in your area...he has a great channel.

<https://tinyurl.com/nunvmf2>

<http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsvsTjbpoT-drUUezN9ECDj239FX_rV2a>

 

[Oren]

On Sat, 31 May 2014 19:40:57 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
<DannyD@is.invalid> wrote:

Danny,

Have a look at the "Little Giant Big John Submersible Pump" @ HD.

Mine is 1/4 HP and does a good job for my 10,000 gallon pool. Has a
25' cord, connects to garden hose.

 

[DannyD.]

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 14:49:01 -0700:

Ask them what's in those ginormous plastic tanks on the
pallets, it's the bulk chemicals they use for pool servicing.

The fact they service pools with HASA liquid chlorine is one
reason I believe that their 12% chlorine if fresh.

And, they sold me on the CYA *powder*, which is what their service
guys use (because they can raise the CYA from 0 to 40 in one visit).

After a few experiments, I learned how to use the powder, but,
I see instantly why the professionals use it but not the retail shops!

Yep, I've run into that exact thing. They have no set hours for the
store. My feeling is that the retail store is almost an annoyance and
that the big money is in pool service.

That might explain why they don't even *post* the hours *anywhere*
in the store! There is no sign on the outside (IIRC), so you just
have to have a leap of faith that they'll show up at their verbally
stated opening time!

It's almost like it's the old Andy Griffith hardware store model
of Mayberry RFD, only it's Saratoga California!

Once you have a pool balanced, and you've got Pool Perfect or borax
in the water, there's very little work to do for weekly service

I don't use borax, but maybe I should!
I'll have to read about the BBB method s'more.

Yet in Saratoga not a lot of people want to maintain their own pool
and $75/month is chump change.

When you're paying over $100 a day in just property taxes, the
$75 isn't all that much! But they are missing out on all the fun!

> Yeah, see the same thing at a lot of small restaurants.

I don't mind retail places not paying their taxes, but, I do mind
them charging *me* to pay a tax they are not actually paying!

 

[DannyD.]

Oren wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 15:30:07 -0700:

I'm starting it. Got a pro test kit. (Taylor K-2005C)
This guy is in your area...he has a great channel.
https://tinyurl.com/nunvmf2
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsvsTjbpoT-drUUezN9ECDj239FX_rV2a

Thanks for the URLS to the Beach/Baking Soda/Borax BBB sites.


I was going to pick up the TF-100 but never got around to it, so I'm
just using a basic test kit at the moment (which doesn't give me CC
levels).

However, since my CYA levels are 40ppm, I need to keep my free chlorine
at 5ppm as a goal (and up to 23ppm for algae), as described in chem_geek's
absolutely fantastic FC-to-CYA charts over here:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/2177-Chlorine-CYA-Chart

 

[DannyD.]

DannyD. wrote, on Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:24:30 +0000:

> Thanks for the URLS to the Beach/Baking Soda/Borax BBB sites.

I just realized they renamed BBB to TFPC ...
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/4935-TFPC-for-Beginners

 

[Oren]

On Sat, 31 May 2014 18:27:17 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
<DannyD@is.invalid> wrote:

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/10/11/pedraza-family-pool-pops-up/>.

I am always worried about those popping-out-of-the-ground scare stories,
but, it seems dry enough here that the bigger danger is the plaster
drying out:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/14292131745_4619f60787_b.jpg

Before I completely drained my pool, for an acid wash, I checked the
local water table via geologic maps. My water table is ~ 400 ft.
below the surface. No worry here

 

[Oren]

On Sat, 31 May 2014 13:12:52 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<DannyD@is.invalid> wrote:

> https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3814/14125545570_e6f48b9f56_b.jpg

Curious, Danny. Is the decking at the end being repaired or an access
for equipment that is open?

....just wonderin'

 

[Oren]

On Sun, 1 Jun 2014 12:27:03 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD." <DannyD@is.invalid>
wrote:

DannyD. wrote, on Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:24:30 +0000:

Thanks for the URLS to the Beach/Baking Soda/Borax BBB sites.

I just realized they renamed BBB to TFPC ...
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/4935-TFPC-for-Beginners

Thanks. I hadn't noticed.

 

[sms]

On 6/1/2014 5:24 AM, DannyD. wrote:

Oren wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 15:30:07 -0700:

I'm starting it. Got a pro test kit. (Taylor K-2005C)
This guy is in your area...he has a great channel.
https://tinyurl.com/nunvmf2
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsvsTjbpoT-drUUezN9ECDj239FX_rV2a

Thanks for the URLS to the Beach/Baking Soda/Borax BBB sites.

I don't really like the "BBB" terminology.

First of all, bleach is far more expensive than chlorine when you
consider the concentration. So the first letter should be a C.

Second, it should be sodium bicarbonate, not baking soda, though since
baking soda is usually less expensive than the sodium bicarbonate sold
at the pool store this might be okay.

The B for borax is okay.

But acid and phosphate remover are also important.

So I'd call it ABBCP (acid, baking soda, borax, chlorine, phosphate
remover. But that's not as catchy.

Also, once the pool is balanced and the borax added you really only need
chlorine and acid to maintain it, with phosphate remover only very
occasionally.

 

[gonjah]

On 6/1/2014 7:43 PM, sms wrote:

On 6/1/2014 5:24 AM, DannyD. wrote:
Oren wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 15:30:07 -0700:

I'm starting it. Got a pro test kit. (Taylor K-2005C)
This guy is in your area...he has a great channel.
https://tinyurl.com/nunvmf2
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsvsTjbpoT-drUUezN9ECDj239FX_rV2a


Thanks for the URLS to the Beach/Baking Soda/Borax BBB sites.

I don't really like the "BBB" terminology.

First of all, bleach is far more expensive than chlorine when you
consider the concentration. So the first letter should be a C.

Second, it should be sodium bicarbonate, not baking soda, though since
baking soda is usually less expensive than the sodium bicarbonate sold
at the pool store this might be okay.

The B for borax is okay.

But acid and phosphate remover are also important.

So I'd call it ABBCP (acid, baking soda, borax, chlorine, phosphate
remover. But that's not as catchy.

Also, once the pool is balanced and the borax added you really only need
chlorine and acid to maintain it, with phosphate remover only very
occasionally.

I was asking the guy at the pool store last week about Borax and he said
he only recommends it on start-ups to stabilize the pool's PH. After
that the cya kicks in and it's no longer needed.

If your PH is under control Borax is pretty much a waste of time and
money. Anyway, that's how I understand it. YMMV. I'm still learning too.

I add PR-10000 very sparingly. 1 gallon has lasted me over 2 years now.
I probably have over a year's worth left. I only add a 1/4 cup when I
get a 200 reading. No algae problem here.

From what I've seen, algae becomes a systemic problem on neglected
pools. The more neglected the more problematic it becomes because it
actually get's imbedded into the pool and there really is no easy
solution. Refinish? Acid Wash?.... Depends on the severity. Once the
pool becomes severely infected with algae there are no easy solutions.

 

[Bob F]

Danny D. wrote:

And, this Craftsman sump pump just impotently dribbles!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/14288460005_edd92c725c_z.jpg

It drives me crazy that 1/2 horsepower takes about an hour
to fill up a 5-gallon bucket when the inlet end is immersed
in water the entire time!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2902/14101791829_8be1770d6b_z.jpg

You'd think Craftsman tools would work better than that!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/14101828108/

NOTE: If you have any idea WHY that 1/2 Horsepower Craftsman
pump sucks so badly, please let me know (because it makes
maintenance manual when it should be automatic!).

First problem would be the size of the inlet hose. 1" or bigger would help a
lot. The inlet pipe to my shallow well points is 2", reduced to 1/ 1/4" as it
goes into the pump.

ANY air leak on the input side of the pump will drastically reduce the water it
can pump, or keep it from pumping at all.

My 1 HP sprinkler pump gives me about 15 GPM from 6 PVC well points about 15
feet into the ground, with the static water table maybe half that.