HPM inline power socket

[Sylvia Else]

I've attached any number of inline sockets and plugs in my life, and
never had the trouble I'm having with this. It seems impossible to fit.

The instructions talk about the "Easy wiring clamp terminals," but if
you try to do it the way they show, you get this result

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/T_hmpsocket2.jpg

and the wire pulls out easily even when the screw is done up as tight as
I can make it.

Inserting the wire from the other side (which is not how HPM indicate
it) doesn't do any better, and nor does attempting to wrap the wire
around the screw.

It probably doesn't help that part of the clamp is made from a springy
metal, so as to be able to grip the pin from a plug that's inserted.

Sylvia.

 

[kreed]

On Mar 3, 11:55 am, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

I've attached any number of inline sockets and plugs in my life, and
never had the trouble I'm having with this. It seems impossible to fit.

The instructions talk about the "Easy wiring clamp terminals," but if
you try to do it the way they show, you get this result

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/T_hmpsocket2.jpg

and the wire pulls out easily even when the screw is done up as tight as
I can make it.

Inserting the wire from the other side (which is not how HPM indicate
it) doesn't do any better, and nor does attempting to wrap the wire
around the screw.

It probably doesn't help that part of the clamp is made from a springy
metal, so as to be able to grip the pin from a plug that's inserted.

Sylvia.

Looks crap to me - maybe you need to put crimp "eye" terminals on the
cable


I have seen 3 pin plugs that have similar problems too.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 3/03/2011 2:28 PM, kreed wrote:

On Mar 3, 11:55 am, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
I've attached any number of inline sockets and plugs in my life, and
never had the trouble I'm having with this. It seems impossible to fit.

The instructions talk about the "Easy wiring clamp terminals," but if
you try to do it the way they show, you get this result

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/T_hmpsocket2.jpg

and the wire pulls out easily even when the screw is done up as tight as
I can make it.

Inserting the wire from the other side (which is not how HPM indicate
it) doesn't do any better, and nor does attempting to wrap the wire
around the screw.

It probably doesn't help that part of the clamp is made from a springy
metal, so as to be able to grip the pin from a plug that's inserted.

Sylvia.

Looks crap to me - maybe you need to put crimp "eye" terminals on the
cable

I thought about that. But how hard does this need to be?

I have seen 3 pin plugs that have similar problems too.

You mean like the HPM plug I bought at the same time?

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"kreed"

I have seen 3 pin plugs that have similar problems too.


** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in all
major respects.

Pretty much a closed back version of the now very hard to get 463 series
"piggy back" plugs.

Who remembers the disastrous clear ( acrylic?) version of the 463 that
fractured and exposed live bits so easily ??



..... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 3/03/2011 5:37 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"kreed"

I have seen 3 pin plugs that have similar problems too.


** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in all
major respects.

Pretty much a closed back version of the now very hard to get 463 series
"piggy back" plugs.

Who remembers the disastrous clear ( acrylic?) version of the 463 that
fractured and exposed live bits so easily ??

Any recommendation as to an in-line socket I can get instead?

Arlec make one, but there's no indication on their web site as to how
the wires are attached.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 3/03/2011 6:24 PM, kreed wrote:

On Mar 3, 4:43 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 3/03/2011 5:37 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"kreed"

I have seen 3 pin plugs that have similar problems too.

** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in all
major respects.

Pretty much a closed back version of the now very hard to get 463 series
"piggy back" plugs.

Who remembers the disastrous clear ( acrylic?) version of the 463 that
fractured and exposed live bits so easily ??

Any recommendation as to an in-line socket I can get instead?

Arlec make one, but there's no indication on their web site as to how
the wires are attached.

Sylvia.

Considering the high typical cost of these sockets, and depending on
what you are using it for, I would
buy a cheap extension cord from the supermarket, and cut the end off,
along with the required amount of cord, which
you then attach to whatever you want it to connect to.

The plug (male) end, you can always use as a plug and cord for your
next project.

Unfortunately, that's the process I'm pretty much in the middle of. I'd
bought a long extension cable to use with my generator, but having
decided to run the latter in a different place, find that the cable is
unmanageably long. So I thought I'd turn it into two extension cables.

I bought a plug and socket, but before I realise the problem I'd have
with the socket, I'd cut the cable such that I need to attach the socket
to get the length I want - the other piece is shorter.

Sylvia.

 

[kreed]

On Mar 3, 4:43 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

On 3/03/2011 5:37 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"kreed"

I have seen 3 pin plugs that have similar problems too.

** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in all
major respects.

That was a design failure - one of its features was that the back
would break straight off if anyone pulled on or tripped over the cord.

Pretty much a closed back version of the now very hard to get 463 series
"piggy back" plugs.

Who remembers the disastrous clear ( acrylic?) version of the 463 that
fractured and exposed live bits so easily ??


Any recommendation as to an in-line socket I can get instead?

Arlec make one, but there's no indication on their web site as to how
the wires are attached.

Sylvia.

 

[kreed]

On Mar 3, 4:43 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

On 3/03/2011 5:37 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"kreed"

I have seen 3 pin plugs that have similar problems too.

** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in all
major respects.

Pretty much a closed back version of the now very hard to get 463 series
"piggy back" plugs.

Who remembers the disastrous clear ( acrylic?) version of the 463 that
fractured and exposed live bits so easily ??

Any recommendation as to an in-line socket I can get instead?

Arlec make one, but there's no indication on their web site as to how
the wires are attached.

Sylvia.

Considering the high typical cost of these sockets, and depending on
what you are using it for, I would
buy a cheap extension cord from the supermarket, and cut the end off,
along with the required amount of cord, which
you then attach to whatever you want it to connect to.

The plug (male) end, you can always use as a plug and cord for your
next project.

 

[Phil Allison]

"kreed"
Phil Allison wrote:

** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in all
major respects.

That was a design failure - one of its features was that the back
would break straight off if anyone pulled on or tripped over the cord.

** Huh ??

The plug would pull right out of the socket first.


..... Phil

 

[kreed]

On Mar 3, 9:33 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"kreed"

 Phil Allison wrote:

** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in all
major respects.

That was a design failure - one of its features was that the back
would break straight off if anyone pulled on or tripped over the cord.

** Huh ??

The plug would pull right out of the socket first.

.... Phil

The only good thing about these plugs (IMHO) was that you could see at
a glance that the plug was wired correctly.

Sometimes they didn't pull out because the cord came out the side,
this could tilt the plug, sometimes causing the pins to "jam" in the
socket and not come out easily, under the right circumstances, like a
very sharp, sudden pull of the cord. From what I saw, the clear
plastic back cracked either in half or totally, this would put the
wires coming directly out back and the plug would then come out. The
clear plastic didn't seem to have the strength (and would crack rather
than flex) of the usual black/grey/white ones in use. These seemed
more flexible and wouldn't crack easily.

It may have taken many times this happening for it to finally break
for all I know.

After seeing plugs damaged like this on 2 occasions, one with a live
terminal exposed, and several others with cracks in the clear covers
that I suspected were caused by pulling out the plug by using the
cord, we never used them since and went to the Clipsal 439. These
always come out of the socket when the cord is pulled, as the cord
entry is in the centre of the back.

http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/ProductInformation.aspx?CatNo=439S&ref=

 

[Phil Allison]

"kreed"
"Phil Allison"

** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in
all
major respects.

That was a design failure - one of its features was that the back
would break straight off if anyone pulled on or tripped over the cord.

** Huh ??

The plug would pull right out of the socket first.

The only good thing about these plugs (IMHO) was that you could see at
a glance that the plug was wired correctly.

** They are made from white or grey plastic and very tough.

There is no clear version.

..... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 3/03/2011 12:55 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

I've attached any number of inline sockets and plugs in my life, and
never had the trouble I'm having with this. It seems impossible to fit.

The instructions talk about the "Easy wiring clamp terminals," but if
you try to do it the way they show, you get this result

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/T_hmpsocket2.jpg

and the wire pulls out easily even when the screw is done up as tight as
I can make it.

Inserting the wire from the other side (which is not how HPM indicate
it) doesn't do any better, and nor does attempting to wrap the wire
around the screw.

It probably doesn't help that part of the clamp is made from a springy
metal, so as to be able to grip the pin from a plug that's inserted.

Sylvia.

After a lot of fiddling, I've managed to achieve a workable attachment,
which will be OK given my intended use. However, there's no way I'd want
to give the resulting cable to someone else, because I'd have no
confidence that it will remain secure in the long term.

Sylvia.

 

[Metro]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8taooeFeipU2@mid.individual.net...

On 3/03/2011 12:55 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
I've attached any number of inline sockets and plugs in my life, and
never had the trouble I'm having with this. It seems impossible to fit.

The instructions talk about the "Easy wiring clamp terminals," but if
you try to do it the way they show, you get this result

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/T_hmpsocket2.jpg

and the wire pulls out easily even when the screw is done up as tight as
I can make it.

Inserting the wire from the other side (which is not how HPM indicate
it) doesn't do any better, and nor does attempting to wrap the wire
around the screw.

It probably doesn't help that part of the clamp is made from a springy
metal, so as to be able to grip the pin from a plug that's inserted.

Sylvia.

After a lot of fiddling, I've managed to achieve a workable attachment,
which will be OK given my intended use. However, there's no way I'd want
to give the resulting cable to someone else, because I'd have no
confidence that it will remain secure in the long term.

Sylvia.

Sylvia. Why don't you contact HPM and inform of your problem? Unless of
course you are too embarrassed. I and my colleagues have wired hundreds of
the bloody things. Agreed they could be a tad better, but really they are
not that much of a hassle. Each to his own. Tell you what though. The screw
looks that is upside down!!!

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 4/03/2011 3:51 PM, Metro wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8taooeFeipU2@mid.individual.net...
On 3/03/2011 12:55 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
I've attached any number of inline sockets and plugs in my life, and
never had the trouble I'm having with this. It seems impossible to fit.

The instructions talk about the "Easy wiring clamp terminals," but if
you try to do it the way they show, you get this result

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/T_hmpsocket2.jpg

and the wire pulls out easily even when the screw is done up as tight as
I can make it.

Inserting the wire from the other side (which is not how HPM indicate
it) doesn't do any better, and nor does attempting to wrap the wire
around the screw.

It probably doesn't help that part of the clamp is made from a springy
metal, so as to be able to grip the pin from a plug that's inserted.

Sylvia.

After a lot of fiddling, I've managed to achieve a workable attachment,
which will be OK given my intended use. However, there's no way I'd want
to give the resulting cable to someone else, because I'd have no
confidence that it will remain secure in the long term.

Sylvia.

Sylvia. Why don't you contact HPM and inform of your problem? Unless of
course you are too embarrassed. I and my colleagues have wired hundreds of
the bloody things. Agreed they could be a tad better, but really they are
not that much of a hassle. Each to his own. Tell you what though. The screw
looks that is upside down!!!

I have. I've also contacted the department of fair trading on the
question of whether the product should be withdrawn from sale as being
unsafe.

The screw is definitely in the correct orientation. Perhaps the ones
you've been wiring are different.

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

Stupider than Anyone Else

I have. I've also contacted the department of fair trading on the question
of whether the product should be withdrawn from sale as being unsafe.

** Waste of time with those pricks.

The product has been safety approved by a government sanctioned testing and
approvals lab - probably in China.

Only thing an ordinary citizen could do is have a lab here in Australia look
at it and get their opinion on whether it passes the Australian standards -
then ( assuming it is negative) show that info to Fair Trading and the
minister too.



..... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 4/03/2011 4:26 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

Stupider than Anyone Else

I have. I've also contacted the department of fair trading on the question
of whether the product should be withdrawn from sale as being unsafe.


** Waste of time with those pricks.

Could be. They got back to me, and asked for a bit more information, but
I'm not holding my breath.

Oh well, I've done as much as I can reasonably be expected to do on
seeing a safety issue.

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"kreed"
"Phil Allison"

** The Clipsal series 418 ( side entry ) 10amp plug is a good one in
all major respects.

That was a design failure - one of its features was that the back
would break straight off if anyone pulled on or tripped over the cord.

** Huh ??

The plug would pull right out of the socket first.

The only good thing about these plugs (IMHO) was that you could see at
a glance that the plug was wired correctly.

** They are made from white or grey plastic and very tough.

There is no clear version.

I just looked and the plug I referred to is indeed a 418 with a white
body and a clear plastic back. These would have been bought in the
1990s though and may have been discontinued since then.


** Must be rare birds.

I tried it in a socket, pulled firmly on the cord and it didn't come
out, it jammed the plastic back began to crack.

** Bad design.

I think I still have several new ones in the shed and am happy to send
you one if you want to test it.

** OK - I believe you, if it has a clear acrylic back it's a POS.


I have also seen the grey body & back version, and agree that they are
fine.

** The old piggy back 463s that were clear acrylic were very vulnerable to
someone yanking a plug in the back out sideways - that tended to rip the
back cover open around one or more or the pin holes.

Whatever approvals lab passed the horrible things needed a boot up the
backside.


...... Phil

 

[Metro]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8tbal1Fh32U1@mid.individual.net...

On 4/03/2011 3:51 PM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8taooeFeipU2@mid.individual.net...
On 3/03/2011 12:55 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
I've attached any number of inline sockets and plugs in my life, and
never had the trouble I'm having with this. It seems impossible to fit.

The instructions talk about the "Easy wiring clamp terminals," but if
you try to do it the way they show, you get this result

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/T_hmpsocket2.jpg

and the wire pulls out easily even when the screw is done up as tight
as
I can make it.

Inserting the wire from the other side (which is not how HPM indicate
it) doesn't do any better, and nor does attempting to wrap the wire
around the screw.

It probably doesn't help that part of the clamp is made from a springy
metal, so as to be able to grip the pin from a plug that's inserted.

Sylvia.

After a lot of fiddling, I've managed to achieve a workable attachment,
which will be OK given my intended use. However, there's no way I'd want
to give the resulting cable to someone else, because I'd have no
confidence that it will remain secure in the long term.

Sylvia.

Sylvia. Why don't you contact HPM and inform of your problem? Unless of
course you are too embarrassed. I and my colleagues have wired hundreds
of
the bloody things. Agreed they could be a tad better, but really they are
not that much of a hassle. Each to his own. Tell you what though. The
screw
looks that is upside down!!!



I have. I've also contacted the department of fair trading on the question
of whether the product should be withdrawn from sale as being unsafe.

The screw is definitely in the correct orientation.

How do you know?

I hate to say but I think you are wrong. The head of the screw always screws
down on to the clamp. Gives more surface area on the clamp for a start. And
for the life of me how do you get a driver into the head when it's
underneath the clamp without taking it all apart. Did you show HPM your
little piccy? What was their comment? DFT won't be much help as all HPM
stuff is submitted for test by the ASA. If they say OK then my friend it's
OK. Have you thought that the little chinaman on assembly got it wrong. I
believe if you really had shown HPM that plug top in that state they would
be on to it like a rocket.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 4/03/2011 4:42 PM, kreed wrote:

On Mar 4, 3:40 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 4/03/2011 4:26 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

Stupider than Anyone Else

I have. I've also contacted the department of fair trading on the question
of whether the product should be withdrawn from sale as being unsafe.

** Waste of time with those pricks.

Could be. They got back to me, and asked for a bit more information, but
I'm not holding my breath.

Oh well, I've done as much as I can reasonably be expected to do on
seeing a safety issue.

Sylvia.


If you were the average consumer, they would probably ignore, on the
basis that you weren't
qualified to wire it. ?

In what sense qualified? In NSW any consumer is permitted to attach a
socket to a cable as long as the cable is not part of fixed wiring. If
anything, this makes it even more of a safety issue. It should be
possible to achieve a safe attachment by following the instructions. It
is not.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 4/03/2011 4:46 PM, Metro wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8tbal1Fh32U1@mid.individual.net...
On 4/03/2011 3:51 PM, Metro wrote:
"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8taooeFeipU2@mid.individual.net...
On 3/03/2011 12:55 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
I've attached any number of inline sockets and plugs in my life, and
never had the trouble I'm having with this. It seems impossible to fit.

The instructions talk about the "Easy wiring clamp terminals," but if
you try to do it the way they show, you get this result

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/T_hmpsocket2.jpg

and the wire pulls out easily even when the screw is done up as tight
as
I can make it.

Inserting the wire from the other side (which is not how HPM indicate
it) doesn't do any better, and nor does attempting to wrap the wire
around the screw.

It probably doesn't help that part of the clamp is made from a springy
metal, so as to be able to grip the pin from a plug that's inserted.

Sylvia.

After a lot of fiddling, I've managed to achieve a workable attachment,
which will be OK given my intended use. However, there's no way I'd want
to give the resulting cable to someone else, because I'd have no
confidence that it will remain secure in the long term.

Sylvia.

Sylvia. Why don't you contact HPM and inform of your problem? Unless of
course you are too embarrassed. I and my colleagues have wired hundreds
of
the bloody things. Agreed they could be a tad better, but really they are
not that much of a hassle. Each to his own. Tell you what though. The
screw
looks that is upside down!!!



I have. I've also contacted the department of fair trading on the question
of whether the product should be withdrawn from sale as being unsafe.

The screw is definitely in the correct orientation.

How do you know?

I hate to say but I think you are wrong. The head of the screw always screws
down on to the clamp. Gives more surface area on the clamp for a start. And
for the life of me how do you get a driver into the head when it's
underneath the clamp without taking it all apart.

There's a hole there for the purpose.

Did you show HPM your
little piccy? What was their comment?

None yet.

DFT won't be much help as all HPM
stuff is submitted for test by the ASA.

It's possible that the design has been subtlely modified since it was
approved, or the component is just not manufactured in accordance with
the approval. For example, it would probably work better if the square
clamp were a tighter fit so that it didn't rotate so much and leave so
much of the conductor exposed.

If they say OK then my friend it's
OK. Have you thought that the little chinaman on assembly got it wrong. I
believe if you really had shown HPM that plug top in that state they would
be on to it like a rocket.

Oh ye of little faith.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/hpmSocketInstructions.jpg

Sylvia.