How Science Progresses...

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 12:49:20 PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:23:19 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

The global population is definitely heading for a correction. The shortages are just beginning to unfold. Quite a lot of the impending disasters are being blamed on global warming when they should be blamed on overpopulation.

The next big source of misery will be from consequences of the virus
lockdowns.

We were doing great before that. Poverty down, life spans up, food
production up, birth rates down, education up, mostly good stuff.

Not so. The \'consequences of the virus lockdowns\' don\'t produce widows and orphans
like a pandemic does, and they aren\'t in any sense \'next\' because that\'s current events.
We were NOT doing great before that; the birth rate in China was down because of
the one-child policy. Life spans dropped precipitously this year because crowds
propogated disease.

Food production got industrialized (i.e. dependent on a long chain of tech support)
so that the farmers had to invest heavily, and got overproduction and low prices-thus
cannot recover the investment. There were a LOT of farmers suiciding in India which does not have price support.

Education up sounds good, BUT technical training has been spotty, as lots of production
shifts from one nation to another, abandoning its roots. Good glassblowers and plasterers are
hard to find. So are comfortable leather shoes, and tasty little strawberries.
The paucity of good pay for young workers means they can\'t start families, and/or are advised
to get more schooling...

You\'ve neglected ozone holes and global warming, species vanishing, and polymer-trashed oceans.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 6:46:28 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:14:55 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 1:35:06 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 09:58:55 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 11:56:16 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:17:39 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

The latest vaccine technology using messenger RNA technology, mRNA, which is tentatively proving to be a very effective immunization for COVID-19, is based upon the cell chemistry of the ribosome. Ribosomes were first discovered by a Romanian born immigrant to America, George Palade.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1974/palade/facts/

Looks like quite a few \"non-Americans\" have made major contributions to the kinds of science and technology essential to overcoming the toughest challenges confronting mankind.

http://www.biology4kids.com/files/cell_ribos.html
Non-American? Palade did his post-doc research and Nobel work in the
US and was a US citizen by 1952.

LOL- did you miss the part about being born in 1912? Forty years isn\'t exactly overnight shipping.

He earned his M.D. in Romania. From the wiki \"early life\" section:
George Emil Palade was born on November 19, 1912 in Ia?i, Romania; his father was a professor of philosophy at the University of Ia?i and his mother was a high school teacher. George E. Palade received his M.D. in 1940 from the Carol Davila School of Medicine in Bucharest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Emil_Palade

No telling how he would have ended up as an American raised doctor- probably more high income practice oriented than basic research.






--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
Being American isn\'t about where you were born, it\'s about where you
decided to live and work.

I\'m pretty sure he wasn\'t going to return to Romania under Soviet occupation and exploitation:
\"Romania remained under the direct military occupation and economic control of the USSR until the late 1950s.\"
\"A 2006 Commission estimated the number of direct victims of the Communist repression at two million people.[\"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania#Communism
Prior to that \"Antonescu signed the Tripartite Pact of Germany, Italy and Japan on 23 November. [1940]\"
The place was in constant turmoil- a bloodbath of wars and repression.
That Wiki bio leaves out a lot of stuff- but it does say he came to U.S. in 1946. Sounds more like a refugee move than a personal choice.

He didn\'t choose Canada or France or Brazil.

He first enrolled in a post-doctoral program at NYU, but soon moved to Rockefeller University, a very prestigious research institution, and that probably had more to do with his choice than anything else. The Yale and UC stuff came much later. The research that earned him the Nobel Prize was done at Rockefeller U. \"At the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research, Palade used electron microscopy to study the internal organization of such cell structures as ribosomes, mitochondria, chloroplasts, the Golgi apparatus...\"

 

[server]

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:17:39 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

The latest vaccine technology using messenger RNA technology, mRNA, which is tentatively proving to be a very effective immunization for COVID-19, is based upon the cell chemistry of the ribosome. Ribosomes were first discovered by a Romanian born immigrant to America, George Palade.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1974/palade/facts/

Looks like quite a few \"non-Americans\" have made major contributions to the kinds of science and technology essential to overcoming the toughest challenges confronting mankind.

http://www.biology4kids.com/files/cell_ribos.html

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/danish-study-suggests-masks-do-little-stop-covid-iowa-gov-insists-there-evidence-both

\"Believe The Science\" is really liberating.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[Rickster C]

On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 11:26:15 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:17:39 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

The latest vaccine technology using messenger RNA technology, mRNA, which is tentatively proving to be a very effective immunization for COVID-19, is based upon the cell chemistry of the ribosome. Ribosomes were first discovered by a Romanian born immigrant to America, George Palade.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1974/palade/facts/

Looks like quite a few \"non-Americans\" have made major contributions to the kinds of science and technology essential to overcoming the toughest challenges confronting mankind.

http://www.biology4kids.com/files/cell_ribos.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/danish-study-suggests-masks-do-little-stop-covid-iowa-gov-insists-there-evidence-both

\"Believe The Science\" is really liberating.

Interesting contradiction...

While there is not absolute proof that wearing masks protects either the user or others around the user, there is adequate evidence of it and little reason to think they don\'t offer better protection than using nothing.

The real issue is why anyone would want to be in denial that this disease is dangerous and needs to be dealt with. Wearing masks is a very good way to remind us all to maintain distance and to make the effort to not continue to spread this disease... while the US shows the world how to not fight this disease and allow a significant portion of the population to die while waiting for a vaccine or some other technology based solution.

The good ol\' USA, a country without enough will to even fight a virus.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 18 November 2020 at 08:26:15 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
....

http://www.biology4kids.com/files/cell_ribos.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/danish-study-suggests-masks-do-little-stop-covid-iowa-gov-insists-there-evidence-both

\"Believe The Science\" is really liberating.
--
....

Yes, you ought to \"believe the science\".

\"Yet, the findings were inconclusive and cannot definitively exclude a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection of mask wearers in such a setting. It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in settings where social distancing and other public health measures are not in effect.\"

The results were basically inconclusive and did not test for source control, ie whether the wearer was likely to infect others which has been the main thrust of the public messaging.

kw

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 11:13:44 -0800 (PST), \"ke...@kjwdesigns.com\"
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 18 November 2020 at 08:26:15 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
...
http://www.biology4kids.com/files/cell_ribos.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/danish-study-suggests-masks-do-little-stop-covid-iowa-gov-insists-there-evidence-both

\"Believe The Science\" is really liberating.
--
...

Yes, you ought to \"believe the science\".

That\'s what\'s great; so much Science to choose from.

I think frightened people wear masks and stay at home hiding under
their beds, so get infected at a lower rate than normal folk. They
extend the tail of the infection curve. Maybe a vaccine will pay off
for them.

We have a friend who wears a mask in her own back yard. She rarely
leaves home. She won\'t enter our house any more. Sometimes she bakes
muffins, leaves them outside our door, rings the bell, and runs.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 18 November 2020 at 12:04:47 UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
....

Yes, you ought to \"believe the science\".
That\'s what\'s great; so much Science to choose from.

Not all science should get the same weighting though - opinions from \"cancer quacks\" with no expertise in the field are not worth the same as those from qualified researchers.

I think frightened people wear masks and stay at home hiding under
their beds, so get infected at a lower rate than normal folk. They
extend the tail of the infection curve. Maybe a vaccine will pay off
for them.

Even if it does just extend the tail, why not put it off the possibility of infection until the vaccination is available?

Given the choice between risking death or side-effects now (even at only 1-2% probability), or not facing that particular risk at all in the future where the incremental cost to me is negligible, seems like a simple decision.

We have a friend who wears a mask in her own back yard. She rarely
leaves home. She won\'t enter our house any more. Sometimes she bakes
muffins, leaves them outside our door, rings the bell, and runs.

I don\'t think I would want to enter your house either, you don\'t seem to want to suffer even a slight inconvenience for other people\'s sake and you just mock them.

kw

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 7:04:47 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 11:13:44 -0800 (PST), \"ke...@kjwdesigns.com\"
ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 18 November 2020 at 08:26:15 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
...
http://www.biology4kids.com/files/cell_ribos.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/danish-study-suggests-masks-do-little-stop-covid-iowa-gov-insists-there-evidence-both

\"Believe The Science\" is really liberating.

Yes, you ought to \"believe the science\".

That\'s what\'s great; so much Science to choose from.

John Larkin thinks that climate chance denial is based on science. If you haven\'t got a clue about what is and isn\'t scientific, you do have a much wider range of ideas to choose from

I think frightened people wear masks and stay at home hiding under
their beds, so get infected at a lower rate than normal folk.

Rational people wear masks when it makes sense, and don\'t hide under the bed (which doesn\'t help) and are also less likely to get infected.

> They extend the tail of the infection curve.

To infinity, if they do it right. If you don\'t get infected, you can\'t infect anybody else.

> Maybe a vaccine will pay off for them.

A vaccine that works will pay off for everybody, even anti-vaxxers.

We have a friend who wears a mask in her own back yard. She rarely
leaves home. She won\'t enter our house any more. Sometimes she bakes
muffins, leaves them outside our door, rings the bell, and runs.

Granting John Larkin\'s delusions about what is and isn\'t scientific, this is probably perfectly rational behavior.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 15:12:15 -0800 (PST), \"ke...@kjwdesigns.com\"
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 18 November 2020 at 12:04:47 UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
...
Yes, you ought to \"believe the science\".
That\'s what\'s great; so much Science to choose from.

Not all science should get the same weighting though - opinions from \"cancer quacks\" with no expertise in the field are not worth the same as those from qualified researchers.

I think frightened people wear masks and stay at home hiding under
their beds, so get infected at a lower rate than normal folk. They
extend the tail of the infection curve. Maybe a vaccine will pay off
for them.

Even if it does just extend the tail, why not put it off the possibility of infection until the vaccination is available?

Given the choice between risking death or side-effects now (even at only 1-2% probability), or not facing that particular risk at all in the future where the incremental cost to me is negligible, seems like a simple decision.

Let\'s ban bicycles and cigarettes and ice cream. Someone might die!

We have a friend who wears a mask in her own back yard. She rarely
leaves home. She won\'t enter our house any more. Sometimes she bakes
muffins, leaves them outside our door, rings the bell, and runs.

I don\'t think I would want to enter your house either, you don\'t seem to want to suffer even a slight inconvenience for other people\'s sake and you just mock them.

OK, be that way.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 18 November 2020 at 17:39:23 UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
....

Given the choice between risking death or side-effects now (even at only 1-2% probability), or not facing that particular risk at all in the future where the incremental cost to me is negligible, seems like a simple decision.
Let\'s ban bicycles and cigarettes and ice cream. Someone might die!

Don\'t be absurd - most rational cyclists use PPE in the form of helmets, to mitigate the risk to an acceptable level.

A mask when in proximity to others sounds a reasonable approach to help preserve public health.

You, of all people, should understand that we just need to reduce the gain slightly to avoid runaway. It\'s just an unstable system, we need to let it get to equilibrium.

With reported R values of 1.1 - 1.5 (https://rt.live) masking combined with other techniques only need to reduce the infectious rate by about 30% to allow the disease to die out (assuming a very simple model).

Of course we could just let it run rampant, after all with a fatality rate of around 1% that would only mean that 3 million people in the US would die prematurely, even if it was only 0.1% (to account for unreported cases) it would be another 300,000 people that would die.

With the overloading of medical facilities and burn-out of workers the fatality rate would probably be higher.
....
kw

 

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 8:26:15 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/danish-study-suggests-masks-do-little-stop-covid-iowa-gov-insists-there-evidence-both

\"Believe The Science\" is really liberating.

If you feel liberated, you aren\'t really seeing science. Science is tethered to real observations.
Chained, and manacled, really.

Because we don\'t do full-scale-virus-involved experiments on humans, the data that
really tells us about masking effectiveness is... sparse, spotty, or theoretical.

The theory says that lots of big wet particles will deposit on a mask before they deposit on
the membranes or alveoli of an individual, but only if the masks are in the path of breath.
So, wear a mask when with people.

Cherrypicking sparse data (and going halfway around the world, to Denmark, to do so)
is a fool\'s exercise. The paper DOES say there\'s no statistical significance to its result.
That is a hint. Take the hint. Its the chain, the manacle, that makes it science.

 

[server]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 18:54:58 -0800 (PST), \"ke...@kjwdesigns.com\"
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 18 November 2020 at 17:39:23 UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
...
Given the choice between risking death or side-effects now (even at only 1-2% probability), or not facing that particular risk at all in the future where the incremental cost to me is negligible, seems like a simple decision.
Let\'s ban bicycles and cigarettes and ice cream. Someone might die!

Don\'t be absurd - most rational cyclists use PPE in the form of helmets, to mitigate the risk to an acceptable level.

A mask when in proximity to others sounds a reasonable approach to help preserve public health.

You, of all people, should understand that we just need to reduce the gain slightly to avoid runaway. It\'s just an unstable system, we need to let it get to equilibrium.

With reported R values of 1.1 - 1.5 (https://rt.live) masking combined with other techniques only need to reduce the infectious rate by about 30% to allow the disease to die out (assuming a very simple model).

Of course we could just let it run rampant, after all with a fatality rate of around 1% that would only mean that 3 million people in the US would die prematurely, even if it was only 0.1% (to account for unreported cases) it would be another 300,000 people that would die.

With the overloading of medical facilities and burn-out of workers the fatality rate would probably be higher.
...
kw

You should join the ventilator project.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[bitrex]

On 11/17/2020 7:50 PM, whit3rd wrote:

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 3:44:21 PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

There are half a billion people in the world living on under $2 a day.
The absolute number is the lowest it\'s been in over 100 years.

So? The life of hunter-gatherer or herder or subsistence farmer is just fine without
currency. $2 a day sounds bad, but a herd or farm is worth BIG money,
and those investments pay off directly in food etc., without any cash changing
hands.

There are very few of that type of person left in the world, where money
actually has little meaning.

Global capitalism has reached almost everywhere, and the overwhelming
majority of people living on an income like that live in slums of some
of the world\'s largest cities in South America, Africa, and Asia, where
$2 US goes a bit further than it does in the US, but if you were to
visit these places you would have no doubt \"these people are some of the
poorest people on Earth.\"

 

[bitrex]

On 11/17/2020 6:44 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:59:07 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 11/17/2020 3:49 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:23:19 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 1:26:23 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 11/17/2020 1:16 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 11:29:57 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 11/17/2020 11:17 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
The latest vaccine technology using messenger RNA technology, mRNA, which is tentatively proving to be a very effective immunization for COVID-19, is based upon the cell chemistry of the ribosome. Ribosomes were first discovered by a Romanian born immigrant to America, George Palade.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1974/palade/facts/

Looks like quite a few \"non-Americans\" have made major contributions to the kinds of science and technology essential to overcoming the toughest challenges confronting mankind.

http://www.biology4kids.com/files/cell_ribos.html

Three years later:

https://youtu.be/0DaQ-QhKwtI?t=137

Some would say that\'s an improvement.

I kinda like other people a lot of the time, yeah sure they can be a
pain in the ass sometimes but I think I\'d miss having them around.
Particularly women, younger women, yeah I\'d definitely miss that.

Never had a dog or particularly wanted to. Dogs will love anyone, anyone
with a steak handy at least. All too easy.

The global population is definitely heading for a correction. The shortages are just beginning to unfold. Quite a lot of the impending disasters are being blamed on global warming when they should be blamed on overpopulation.

The next big source of misery will be from consequences of the virus
lockdowns.

We were doing great before that. Poverty down, life spans up, food
production up, birth rates down, education up, mostly good stuff.


Weren\'t a bunch of states sending Americans $600 a week unemployment
until they realized that was more money than 70% of Americans had ever
earned in their lives?

Median US household income is over $63K, over $1200 a week.

They don\'t send unemployment checks to households they send it to
individuals.

There are half a billion people in the world living on under $2 a day.
The absolute number is the lowest it\'s been in over 100 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty#/media/File:World-population-in-extreme-poverty-absolute.svg