how do I wire up a 30 amp circuit?

[Albm&ctd]

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:01:05 +1100, "Wayne Reid"
<REMOVEgokangas@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Albm&ctd" <alb_mandctdNOWMD@connexus.net.au> wrote in message
news:v97u20hh2tqkg045re7ohc232li6hvcl99@4ax.com...
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi,

Oh you're still alive. Guess the chemical experiments went OK then

I will be watching the channel 10 news with interest over the next few
weeks. The story will go something like, "residents of xxxxxx have had a
hair-raising experience in recent days, due to an unexplained alien
phonomenon. Neon lights glow when switched off, mobile phones have stopped
working and nylon underpants are throwing sparks. Even an act of flatulance
is likely to cause second degree burns due to spontaneous combustion. Locals
have reported a low hum and a strange glow coming from one property in xxxxx
street. A number of alien investigation teams have decended on the area,
claiming that the strange images on TV sets is a sign that intelligent life
from Mars is trying to make contact with us.

In other news, police suspect a canibal cult were disrupted before they
could eat the cooked body of Mr Arpit, a resident of the same suburb where
the alien activity was reported."

And Sandra's delivery will be straight-faced and deadpan as usual.

LOL that was mad and maybe we should write something together. Did you
read my 'Arse crack invaders from Mars'.

Al

2004 insult page awaits your contribution
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html

 

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:19:16 +1100, Mike Harding
<mike_harding1@nixspamhotmail.com> wrote:

You're quite correct, of course but nevertheless the UK (and
other countries) have allowed people to install their own
wiring since electricity was discovered and there is no
significant incidence of electrocution or electrical fires there.

And no doubt we'll have many 15Amp GPOs connected with 1.5mm cables
exposed on the exterior of the house connected to a 40A breaker for
the oven.

 

[Rod Speed]

<David Sauer> wrote in message news:e8a130lki2hk0iloslc7jvc4lsncgr5a3u@4ax.com...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:19:16 +1100, Mike Harding
mike_harding1@nixspamhotmail.com> wrote:

You're quite correct, of course but nevertheless the UK (and
other countries) have allowed people to install their own
wiring since electricity was discovered and there is no
significant incidence of electrocution or electrical fires there.

And no doubt we'll have many 15Amp GPOs connected with 1.5mm cables
exposed on the exterior of the house connected to a 40A breaker for
the oven.

Have fun explaining why that doesnt happen in pomland.

Or are you seriously attempting to suggest that
the poms are smarter than the worst of ours ?

 

[Rod Speed]

<mathew@spamtrap-spiesareus.yi.org> wrote in message news:slrnc30v3r.cu.mathew@alpha.spiesareus.yi.org...

On 2004-02-16, Mark Harriss <ningauble@removethis.bigpond.com> wrote:
Alex Gibson wrote:


Had a guy who I worked with years back
who gave himself bad RF burns.
Not that he realised what they were.

Came into work a few times with blisters, skin discolouration
and burn marks on his hands and arms.
One of his mates said he'd had that all over a couple of times.

Liked to play with his large coil a lot.
Supposedly was thrown by it a few times.

Got told he was investigated by local power companies
due to damage to neighbours electronic equipment
which the power company had to pay for.

I would be interesting to see if he is still alive and if so
is riddled with cancers or not(or has had any kids).

Alex


One of the guys on the American telsa coil group
mentioned a member gave himself nasty soft x-ray burns
while powering a valve off his tesla coil for x-ray experiments.
He had burns all over his face that could have been stopped
by even an aluminium metal shield (not even lead).

Mark Harriss

I hope the guy doesn't intend to have kids - he'll likely find that
difficult.

They'll just have two heads, nothing to worry about.

 

On 2004-02-16, Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

mathew@spamtrap-spiesareus.yi.org> wrote in message news:slrnc30v3r.cu.mathew@alpha.spiesareus.yi.org...
On 2004-02-16, Mark Harriss <ningauble@removethis.bigpond.com> wrote:
Alex Gibson wrote:


Had a guy who I worked with years back
who gave himself bad RF burns.
Not that he realised what they were.

Came into work a few times with blisters, skin discolouration
and burn marks on his hands and arms.
One of his mates said he'd had that all over a couple of times.

Liked to play with his large coil a lot.
Supposedly was thrown by it a few times.

Got told he was investigated by local power companies
due to damage to neighbours electronic equipment
which the power company had to pay for.

I would be interesting to see if he is still alive and if so
is riddled with cancers or not(or has had any kids).

Alex


One of the guys on the American telsa coil group
mentioned a member gave himself nasty soft x-ray burns
while powering a valve off his tesla coil for x-ray experiments.
He had burns all over his face that could have been stopped
by even an aluminium metal shield (not even lead).

Mark Harriss

I hope the guy doesn't intend to have kids - he'll likely find that
difficult.

They'll just have two heads, nothing to worry about.

He can send them to Tasmania, and down there they'll be none the wiser.

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GIT d- s: a--- C+++ UL++++ UB+++ P+ L++ W+ N++
w--- PGP++ t+ 5++ X++ tv b DI+ D++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

 

[Arpit]

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp circuit-
$500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm gonna do is to
get the next electrician who comes to my house to put a 32 amp outlet
on the cooking range circuit, next to the range, and just never use
the range and the outlet at the same time. I had a look in the
fusebox, and unscrewed the faceplate. It all seems really
straightforward, but the thought of climbing into the roof and fishing
really puts me off.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
<DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas

 

[Rod Speed]

Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas

 

[Arpit]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?
and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas

 

[Bushy]

put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,
Thats not legal, so they wont do that.
oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?

Because it does not meet Australian Wiring Regulations.

I'm not trying to be negative, but do you have any electrical training?

but the thought of climbing into the roof and fishing really puts me
off.

On second thoughts, you have already answered that!

And if you do manage to burn the house down, your insurance wont cover
that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.

With the level of forensic ability of most fire investigators, this has been
the case for over twenty years. It isn't rocket science to find where a fire
starts......

estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

And in Qld it is illegal to do anything on this side of the power point
without a licence.....

However it may be allowable to have a 30 amp outlet on the stove line if
there is a change-over switch rather than two on switches that could both be
switched on at the same time. I have not checked the regs on this.

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it?

Not on a thirty amp circuit, but a short duration like less than two seconds
for a motor start current may be OK. Sounds like you need to spend the money
to allow for this current. This may require you having your local
electricity supplier add extra capacity to your switchboard. They will not
permit unauthorised modifications and will disconnect your power until you
have corrected this. They will also require this to be corrected by a
licenced electrician.

Remember if you are causing interference to your neighbours TV reception or
there computer keeps going up in smoke, they will get the electricity
supplier to monitor the power in your street, suburb, city depending on the
level of interferance. What power factor is your consumption? I assume you
can calculate and measure this?

Just like the not council approved extension on the side of your house that
they will issue a demolition order for.....

So, yeah, any advice would be great,

Hope this helps,
Peter

 

[KLR]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
<DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Get more quotes

Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?

It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?

A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short

run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to

try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker

you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these

So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas

 

[Rod Speed]

Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message newsmid30d5u0q2lnc19truudrgs5ghgo6aef@4ax.com...

Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same time.

Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?

It aint legal to only work if you never use the range and the outlet at
the same time. It has to be possible to use them both at once legally.

I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas

 

[Ken Taylor]

<KLR> wrote in message news:tmne30hj7fh1sm6s4svk36asptipfc1h71@4ax.com...

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Get more quotes


Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?


It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove.
The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof,
and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because
of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best
to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?


A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short
run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to
try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker
you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these
So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas


Would he even be able to get another 30Amp (or more) circuit wired in?

Surely that would exceed what the supply will allow, unless he went three
phase.

The upshot is he is a danger to everyone else in the house as he clearly has
no idea of safety. To himself is his problem - explaining to the coroner how
and why he killed other people is another thing.

Ken

 

[Rod Speed]

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message news:scYZb.52340$9k7.1043206@news.xtra.co.nz...

KLR> wrote in message news:tmne30hj7fh1sm6s4svk36asptipfc1h71@4ax.com...
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Get more quotes


Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?


It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove.
The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof,
and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because
of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best
to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?


A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short
run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to
try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker
you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these
So, yeah, any advice would be great,

Would he even be able to get another 30Amp (or more) circuit wired in?

Probably.

Surely that would exceed what the supply
will allow, unless he went three phase.

Aint done like that anymore. They wont give you
3 phase unless you can show you really need it,
like with a substantial power 3 phase device.

They may require the line to the meterbox be upgraded.

The upshot is he is a danger to everyone else in the house as he
clearly has no idea of safety. To himself is his problem - explaining
to the coroner how and why he killed other people is another thing.

Its unlikely he would kill anyone else tho.

He might manage to burn the house down and then would have
a few problems explaining to his parents why he did what he did
that leaves them homeless when the insurance tells his parents
to take the claim and shove it where the sun dont shine.

Even then, he'd have to be pretty unlucky.

 

[Arpit]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:11:59 +1000, "Bushy" <please@reply.to.group>
wrote:

put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,
Thats not legal, so they wont do that.
oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?

Because it does not meet Australian Wiring Regulations.

I'm not trying to be negative, but do you have any electrical training?

no I don't.

but the thought of climbing into the roof and fishing really puts me
off.

On second thoughts, you have already answered that!

And if you do manage to burn the house down, your insurance wont cover
that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.

With the level of forensic ability of most fire investigators, this has been
the case for over twenty years. It isn't rocket science to find where a fire
starts......

yep, by the sounds of it getting an electrician to install a
plug/outlet when the next cooker gets put in seems like the best idea
at the moment.

estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

And in Qld it is illegal to do anything on this side of the power point
without a licence.....

However it may be allowable to have a 30 amp outlet on the stove line if
there is a change-over switch rather than two on switches that could both be
switched on at the same time. I have not checked the regs on this.

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it?

Not on a thirty amp circuit, but a short duration like less than two seconds
for a motor start current may be OK. Sounds like you need to spend the money
to allow for this current. This may require you having your local
electricity supplier add extra capacity to your switchboard. They will not
permit unauthorised modifications and will disconnect your power until you
have corrected this. They will also require this to be corrected by a
licenced electrician.

yeah, the main circuit breaker is only 35 amps, and the wire which

connects the pole-house wire to the switchboard is very skinny.

Remember if you are causing interference to your neighbours TV reception or
there computer keeps going up in smoke, they will get the electricity
supplier to monitor the power in your street, suburb, city depending on the
level of interferance. What power factor is your consumption? I assume you
can calculate and measure this?

heh, its just short term, 15 minutes at once at most. ANd I'm a bit

more concerned about my computer! I think i'll run it off an
inverter or just turn it off when I get my tesla coil going. At the
moment I am just playing around drawing arcs from 2 MOTs, and its
stood up to that fine.

Just like the not council approved extension on the side of your house that
they will issue a demolition order for.....

hm..... interesting you mention that, I needed to ring up the council
to find out if we needed a building permit for a pergola.

So, yeah, any advice would be great,

Hope this helps,
Peter


it did, thanks

 

[Arpit]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:16:28 +1000, KLR <> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Get more quotes


Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?


It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

good idea But in regards to the legeslation, how come that is
illegal, but wiring 2 10 amp power sockets to a 16 amp circuit is
legal? is it because with the cooker scenario, the cooker is wired
directly, and the fuse and wiring must be rated for max cooker drawing
plus max power socket rating? DOes this mean people can get around the
legeslation by installing a poorly rated socket and overloading it?
What are the implications for my cooker, which is actually rated at 45
amps with everything switched on, but is on a 32 amp circuit?

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

wow, nifty, I should have a look at that clipsal catalogue which

arrived in the mail today

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?


A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short
run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to
try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker
you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these
So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas

 

[Arpit]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:44:46 +1300, "Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote:

KLR> wrote in message news:tmne30hj7fh1sm6s4svk36asptipfc1h71@4ax.com...
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Get more quotes


Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?


It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove.
The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof,
and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because
of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best
to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?


A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short
run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to
try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker
you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these
So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas


Would he even be able to get another 30Amp (or more) circuit wired in?
Surely that would exceed what the supply will allow, unless he went three
phase.

yeah, the supply is only rated at 35 amps, so says the main circuit

breaker.I take it then that the supply doesn't need to be able to
source the current of all the circuits conencted to it simultaneously,
or else our systerm would be illegal.

The upshot is he is a danger to everyone else in the house as he clearly has
no idea of safety. To himself is his problem - explaining to the coroner how
and why he killed other people is another thing.
Well see, I don't think anything I was proposing was unsafe in itself.

It'd all be protected by fuse in case of accidental overload. I can
thus only think you are assuming I will make stupid wiring errors. WHy
you should do that I don't know.I don't do stuff I haven't done before
without research etc.

Ken

 

[Rod Speed]

"Arpit" <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:c0cm30ljhqhnv08n6pr8bbbn8jimcbj0eu@4ax.com...

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:16:28 +1000, KLR <> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Get more quotes


Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?


It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

good idea But in regards to the legeslation, how come that is
illegal, but wiring 2 10 amp power sockets to a 16 amp circuit is
legal?

Because its assumed that you wont be drawing 10 amps
from both at once and if you do, the breaker will trip.

Same with plug boards with say 12 sockets, you obviously
cant have 12 fan heaters plugged into that at once.

is it because with the cooker scenario, the cooker is
wired directly, and the fuse and wiring must be rated
for max cooker drawing plus max power socket rating?

The rules are certainly different with wired in devices and GPOs.

DOes this mean people can get around the legeslation
by installing a poorly rated socket and overloading it?

Nope, you arent sposed to take more
than 10A from a 10A socket for example.

What are the implications for my cooker, which is actually rated at
45 amps with everything switched on, but is on a 32 amp circuit?

Forget the detail there, but its possible that the stove
has been replaced later and the circuit not upgraded.

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

wow, nifty, I should have a look at that clipsal catalogue which
arrived in the mail today

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?


A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short
run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to
try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker
you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these
So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Arpit" <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:a7cm309ksjamm5hqj0obvbv1otj5fj4nb3@4ax.com...

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:44:46 +1300, "Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote:

KLR> wrote in message news:tmne30hj7fh1sm6s4svk36asptipfc1h71@4ax.com...
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the
range,

Get more quotes


Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?


It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the
16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring
without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well
leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2
options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire
to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove.
The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in.
ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some
sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof,
and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage
because
of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable
under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the
house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here?
what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable?
I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be
best
to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?


A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard
25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians
for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short
run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to
try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may
increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to
the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker
you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these
So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas


Would he even be able to get another 30Amp (or more) circuit wired in?
Surely that would exceed what the supply will allow, unless he went three
phase.

yeah, the supply is only rated at 35 amps, so says the main circuit
breaker.I take it then that the supply doesn't need to be able to
source the current of all the circuits conencted to it simultaneously,
or else our systerm would be illegal.

The upshot is he is a danger to everyone else in the house as he clearly
has
no idea of safety. To himself is his problem - explaining to the coroner
how
and why he killed other people is another thing.
Well see, I don't think anything I was proposing was unsafe in itself.
It'd all be protected by fuse in case of accidental overload. I can
thus only think you are assuming I will make stupid wiring errors. WHy
you should do that I don't know.I don't do stuff I haven't done before
without research etc.

Ken


Stupid accidents happen to the best of us, I'm afraid. That's why we have a

coroner.

Ken

 

[KLR]

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:09:21 +1100, Arpit
<DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:16:28 +1000, KLR <> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Get more quotes


Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?


It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

good idea But in regards to the legeslation, how come that is
illegal, but wiring 2 10 amp power sockets to a 16 amp circuit is
legal? is it because with the cooker scenario, the cooker is wired
directly, and the fuse and wiring must be rated for max cooker drawing
plus max power socket rating? DOes this mean people can get around the
legeslation by installing a poorly rated socket and overloading it?
What are the implications for my cooker, which is actually rated at 45
amps with everything switched on, but is on a 32 amp circuit?

With most cookers (I believe) they are designed so as you can't turn

on everything at once, for example with my old one you couldnt run
the oven and grill at the same time (or something like that). There
was some sort of "safety interlock" system that cut power to other
parts when big loads in the oven were turned on. The unit had a 35a
fuse on its circuit and it never blew.

Most cookers that I have seen actually have 2 separate 240v inputs -

in almost every case these get bridged together and connected to the
single 240 supply. I would imagine that in homes with 2 or 3 phase -
they would go to 2 separate phases to balance the load a bit and
reduce the current per phase to a lower level. (At this stage - if
there was an equal load on the 2 separate circuits of the cooker -
then the current flow would be from active to active - and be 415v -
thus reducing the current significantly for the same 240v load.)

Its possible that your cooker was replaced at some stage with a newer

one and no one took any care with the current ratings. (assuming it
didnt have safety interlock system to limit maximum current as
mentioned above) What rating fuse or circuit breaker is on the cooker
circuit ?) If the installation was originally using 6mm squared cable
though (which is typical for such circuits) - it would have been ample
to carry the 45a current. Theoretically it should be good for about
60 amp (but must be derated for distance of cable run, temperature
rise etc)

10 amp sockets are a different thing altogether.

Usually these are run using 2.5mm sq cable and you can have up to 10
sockets on the first circuit and up to 20 on each other power circuit
(note that a double PP counts as 2 sockets)

Frequently these circuits are each fused by a 20amp breaker so you can
safely draw close to that without problems. Remember that circuit
breakers are chosen to protect the cable as this is what will likely
overheat and burn and start a fire if overloaded.

The reason that there are so many allowed on a circuit is that most
general household appliances are low current. Go and look at
everything in your house, most plug in loads such as lamps, pedestal
fans, plugpacks, audio/video equipment, computers would only draw
around an amp or even much less and it would take a lot of these loads
to get to 10 amp limit of even a single power point.

Even microwave ovens, washers, dryers would be typcally under 10 amp -
and remember these aren't in continous use. same with other things
such as irons, frypans, kettles and so on. Usually you use these for
a relatively short time only - and usually not all at the same time.

If you find yourself needing loads of power boards and double adaptors
- or you are regularly blowing fuses - then its time to get a licensed
electician to pay a visit and install more points or more circuit(s) -
or balance the existing points on the available circuits better. Its
a lot cheaper than a fire.

With special sockets (15amp, 20, 25 and so on) these are usually put
in place for special dedicated power hungry appliances such as large
air con, welders, very large power/machine tools and motors, powering
caravans (which are really like another household power circuit on
their own) and so on.

These sort of appliances by their nature are pretty much always going
to need large currents close to the rating of the circuit, and this is
why they need special circuits of their own and why you cant buy 15a
double adaptors and power boards and so on. They would be impractical
and not much use at all. (though note that you can use a 10a power
board on a 15a socket to plug in multiple 10a loads if needed - but
what is the point ?)

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

wow, nifty, I should have a look at that clipsal catalogue which
arrived in the mail today

It might be HPM from memory. At the time only one company made them

and they had to be ordered in specially by Haymans. They were made
mainly for cookers.

The earth pin is " [ " shaped.

It's also possible that there are now larger rated ones being made
(and on special order)

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?
0
In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?


A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short
run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to
try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker
you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these
So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas

 

[Arpit]

ok, thanks for the answers yeah I kind of see thae point to strict
regulations, high amperage mains is dangerous, i remember being able
to draw 5cm arcs with 2 carbon electrodes in alligator clips and 2 fan
heaters in series with the mains. THings like that happening in the
walls when i wire fell loose would certainly be a bad thing. I
certainly think I should leave this to an electrician with that in
mind. FOr one thing, they know the wiring regulations, and secondly
ive got no experience with medium current medium voltage scenarios
like this. Ive done low voltage high current wiring before, and high
voltage low current, but never this many raw watts. Thanks again
oh and sorry for the por typoing, a 7 mm drill bit snapped and gouged
my middle left finger and its all swollen.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 06:31:01 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

"Arpit" <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:c0cm30ljhqhnv08n6pr8bbbn8jimcbj0eu@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:16:28 +1000, KLR <> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:05:41 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:52:13 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Arpit <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in
message news:6t7d30d4q0r3p1onq8bpi2j3p4v07kn50m@4ax.com...

Thanks everyone who replied. I got a quote for a new 30 amp
circuit - $500 dollars. Thats pretty steep for me, so what I'm
gonna do is to get the next electrician who comes to my house to
put a 32 amp outlet on the cooking range circuit, next to the range,

Get more quotes


Thats not legal, so they wont do that.

oh. I wasn't aware of that. How come its illegal?


It's illegal because there is nothing to stop you from turning on the
cooker (even accidentally) while there is something else plugged into
the 32 amp socket and overloading the circuit in question, overheating
the cable and/or blowing the fuse

The best way to get around this one cheaply and legally would be to
have a 32 amp socket installed to the cooker circuit - and have a 32
amp plug fitted to the cooker (I had this done when I bought my new
stove to allow it to be removable and to avoid having a cable through
a hole in the wall - that was providing access for mice)

good idea But in regards to the legeslation, how come that is
illegal, but wiring 2 10 amp power sockets to a 16 amp circuit is
legal?

Because its assumed that you wont be drawing 10 amps
from both at once and if you do, the breaker will trip.

Same with plug boards with say 12 sockets, you obviously
cant have 12 fan heaters plugged into that at once.

is it because with the cooker scenario, the cooker is
wired directly, and the fuse and wiring must be rated
for max cooker drawing plus max power socket rating?

The rules are certainly different with wired in devices and GPOs.

DOes this mean people can get around the legeslation
by installing a poorly rated socket and overloading it?

Nope, you arent sposed to take more
than 10A from a 10A socket for example.

What are the implications for my cooker, which is actually rated at
45 amps with everything switched on, but is on a 32 amp circuit?

Forget the detail there, but its possible that the stove
has been replaced later and the circuit not upgraded.

This way - you can unplug the cooker and plug in your 32amp load and
there can't then be any overload from both being on at once.

mind you - the cost of this job (including the special 32a plug and
socket) is probably going to well exceed $150 anyway. (note the
special 32a socket is backwards compatible with 20a 15a and 10a plugs
too.)

wow, nifty, I should have a look at that clipsal catalogue which
arrived in the mail today

On top of that - you will need another 32a plug and a length of round
flexible cable suitable for the current capability required vs the
distance of the cable run and the acceptable voltage drop - then
probably a socket etc at the other end of it.

It's not going to be a cheap project - and working with such heavy
cables and fittings is a real pain in the arse to the inexperienced


--------------------------------------

Another option is to get a 32a socket put into the fusebox and make up
an extension cable from it to the garage if you are only going to use
it occasionally.

The extension cable though might be a substantial weight if any length
- and not possible to just roll up and chuck in the shed when not in
use (unlike like a 10a household one)


Im starting to think that you should just get the electrician to wire
the 32amp socket(s) and a sub board etc as needed and just fork out
the money
usually this turns out to be the cheaper option in the long run and
you get what you want straight up.

putting in something like a 60a-80a circuit I think is also a good
idea as you can add to it later without having to re-run cables.
if you go too far - the electricity supplier may insist on you
installing 2 or 3 phase power - and this is costly.

and just never use the range and the outlet at the same
time. I had a look in the fusebox, and unscrewed the
faceplate. It all seems really straightforward,

Its not as straight forward as it looks.

but the thought of climbing into the
roof and fishing really puts me off.

And if you do manage to burn the house down,
your insurance wont cover that if they work out
what you have done, and that wont be hard.


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:15 +1100, Arpit
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Hi, in order to power some transformers im using to build a tesla
coil, I need a mains circuit which can provide more than just the 16
amps my normal power circuit is rated at. 30 amps seems a good
estimate. I'm aware that it is illegal to do permanent wiring without
a licence. I have a few questions though

- how much would an electrician charge to put a 60 amp circuit in,
with 4 power points in the garage ( 15 amps each) ? I say 60 amps,
because if I am going to pay someone to do it, I might as well leave
some room for increasing demands on the mains power.

If its going to be expensive, I'll do it myself. I've got 2 options,
either I can run a wire off the fusebox, or I can splice in a wire to
the wire which comes out of the wall and powers the kitchen stove. The
kitchen stove is on a 30 amp circuit. THe second option seems the
easiest, since I won't need to put a new circuit breaker in. ANyone
have any suggestions about which method I afdopt?

In order to run the cable to the garage, would it be all right to
leave the cable exposed? ( ie not inside the walls) but in some sort
of conduit? THis is because I don't want to go up into the roof, and
its impossible to run a cable under the floor to the garage because of
a brink underfloor partition. I could however , run the cable under
the floor for most of the way, and onlyy make it go outside the house
for the last bit. Are there safety issues I havent forseen here? what
type of conduit would I use?

Finally, how would I splice my cable into the cooking range cable? I
know i'll need to cut the cooking range cable, but would it be best to
solder then heatshrink, or use a junction box of sorts?


A large junction box and 35/50 amp 2 screw terminals would be the go,
but you may need to do this twice if there isnt enough slack in the
cable to insert the join - but of course this is purely academic
advice and you aren't going to try this.

What sort of cable would I use? I'd be reluctant to use standard 25
amp cable. Is there a standard durable cable used by electricians for
25 amp circuits?

For stuff like this 6mm squared would likely be used if its a short
run. if its a longer run - greater than 6mm squared - or 2 parallel
runs of it may be needed to avoid voltage losses due to cable
resistance and cable heating occuring, specially underground where the
cable will not have any free air to allow heat escape and also is
thermally insulated by being in a conduit blanketed by a couple of
feet or so of soil.

but of course this is purely academic advice and you arent going to
try this

For brief periods, like a minute or so, the current draw may increase
to 50 amps or so. This will be ok though, I take it? Similar to the
way I can run 2 10 amp fan heaters off the power circuit without
blowing the fuse.

depends on the overcurrent rating vs trip delay time of the breaker
you are using.

Most standard breakers if they are a few % over their rated current
may take an hour or so to trip - but under a second if its 300+% over
There are datasheets showing these times that will help more to answer
this, haymans etc should be able to show these
So, yeah, any advice would be great,

regards,
Arpit Thomas