Hong Kong becomes a dumping ground for US e-waste, research

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 15/02/2017 12:40 PM, Phoena Greene wrote:

"K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rpr7cpqpntsscmf1ocr33a9hi1tqvfql8@4ax.com...


It's supposed to be illegal in the U.S. to sell e-waste to
another country. But other countries keep buying it.


Well, what are we supposed to do with it. We can't keep turning e-waste
into
dildos. Even a slut like Raeanne will eventually find that she has enough
dildos, one for every occasion.

To quote the Bible:

Could American magicians turn all e-waste into bread?

--
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/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
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[K Wills (Shill #3)]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:15:57 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

On 15/02/2017 12:40 PM, Phoena Greene wrote:


"K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rpr7cpqpntsscmf1ocr33a9hi1tqvfql8@4ax.com...


It's supposed to be illegal in the U.S. to sell e-waste to
another country. But other countries keep buying it.


Well, what are we supposed to do with it. We can't keep turning e-waste
into
dildos. Even a slut like Raeanne will eventually find that she has enough
dildos, one for every occasion.

To quote the Bible:

Could American magicians turn all e-waste into bread?

Where within the Bible can this quote be found?
I'm going to go out on a limb and declare it's something you made
up.

--
Shill #3.
Strategic Writer, Psychotronic World Dominator and FEMA camp
counselor.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3618/5747904676_1e202191d3_b.jpg
All hail the taco! http://www.taconati.org/

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 9:09:49 AM UTC-5, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

On 15/02/2017 11:17 PM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:
I see we have yet another rat in the woodpile.

If electronic devices couldn't be repaired, then they had to be
recycled, so as not to poison your air, soil, seas, rivers and
underground water.

I think you need to acquaint yourself with the term "elsewhere pollution". When the US EPA started regulating dumping, air quality and water quality, and when individual states began to realize that they also had to control such activities within their borders, Industry reared up on its hind legs like a threatened virgin, and whined about the costs involved and how many jobs would be lost as a result.

And, it is true that some of the most polluting industries did reduce in scope and volume, with primary reference to primary commodity or commodity-based uses - coal, steel, mining in general and similar. But as a brief visit to West Virginia will show, the worst of it continues to this day without let-up - although low natural gas prices are reducing the volume.

BUT - and as it really happens: Most of the jobs actually lost are due to automation, increased efficiency and better technique. One example: Lukens Steel - now AcelorMittal - operates the longest continuously operating steel mill in the US (206 years of continuous operation). It has produced roughly the same amount of plate annually for about the last 40+ years, but gone from approximately 3,000 workers to less than 800 in that time. Automation and efficiency. It has gone from burning coal to one (1) electric arc furnace. Cleaner.

And that is only one (1) example.

One more tiny example: Glassphalt - a glass based asphalt that can use glass that would be otherwise difficult to recycle in sufficient volumes to be efficient. It is still in use, depending on local economics, stone costs and applications. Point being, that if the US had to handle its electronic waste in a non-polluting way, it would figure it out - and some prices would rise as a result. However, it need not do so as the economics around that waste create sufficient demand *elsewhere* to cover the costs of getting it there.

We are sending our pollution to the Far East, Africa and other locations both in primary production and waste. But it is not as if those destinations are not asking for it, they are actually demanding it. A country that burns lignite as a primary power source, and dumps chemical wastes in its rivers without any sort of regulation, and dislocates tens of thousands of its people for petty, short-term eyewash purposes will not be concerned with a little more cyanide or a little more tricholoethane in its soil or water, for now anyway.

And that is the way of the world. Nobody does anything *TO* a country economically, short of a shooting war, that the country does not invite or demand. And China is certainly no exception to this. Start at home and ask what home-grown forces are doing before whining about what the rest of the world is doing 'to you'.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 16/02/2017 5:38 AM, K Wills (Shill #3) wrote:

To quote the Bible:

Could American magicians turn all e-waste into bread?

Where within the Bible can this quote be found?
I'm going to go out on a limb and declare it's something you made
up.

Not an exact quote. Just google "turn stone to bread".


--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
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[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 15/02/2017 11:17 PM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:
> I see we have yet another rat in the woodpile.

If electronic devices couldn't be repaired, then they had to be
recycled, so as not to poison your air, soil, seas, rivers and
underground water.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 6:48:20 AM UTC-5, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

Hong Kong does not have that many scientists as in USA. The world is
depending on these clever, smart, brilliant scientists to recycle
e-waste.

I didn't know glass has asphalt.... so it's silly to blow glasses as a
job?

These smart, clever, brilliant scientists will solve that problem the moment that China, Africa et.al. stop buying it. Full stop.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

On 17/1/2017 1:09 AM, pf...@aol.com wrote:

And this is a surprise why? China is rapidly becoming the most polluted country, local and in general, in the history of > the planet. With a population of ~1,346,000,000 +/- and a need to "grow" the economy, a healthy environment is far, far > back in the needs list.
Were China to consume at the same rate as the US does alone (25% of the world's total energy resources), they would use
125% of what the world produces in energy today - that is from all sources, coal, oil, nuclear, solar, wind, geothermal > and more. Not to mention India.

Yet the further renewable energy r & d goes, providing more with less.

 

For example, 3% of sunshine in the Sahara desert is enough to power all of Europe.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 7:57:17 AM UTC-5, bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
> For example, 3% of sunshine in the Sahara desert is enough to power all of Europe.

Be careful what you wish for.

Today, the best solar panels at 2 square meters produce about 350 watts at high-noon. Let's be generous, and assume that this happens for all 12 hours of sunlight as every panel is on the equator. Total cost for a solar farm runs about US$2/watt, exclusive of land or storage - at utility levels. Smaller systems, or systems with substantial storage will run up to US$6/watt. All using SOTA equipment, and not race-for-the bottom junk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption

The European Union uses 2,771,000,000,000 kwh/year. To make that much power would (divided by 365 as needed each day) would require 21690802349 panels at 2 square meters each. Which would be 43,382 square km. Double that for access, cleaning, infrastructure and so forth. Comes to about 2% of the total land area of the EU.

Then we have storage for nights and bad days.

What it all comes down to is that solar power is practical under the following conditions:

a) Government Subsidies
b) Cheap land
c) Government Subsidies
d) Nearby infrastructure or consumers
e) Government Subsidies

The outside service life for a solar panel (rated to 80% of original flash rating) is about 25 years. At which point the degradation accelerates very quickly.

Now, a solar furnace using eutectic salts, THAT can cut the land area required by 80%, be easily scaled, and as a hybrid/cogen system has no storage issues. Couple a solar furnace with any sort of geothermal source or, for instance hydro-power, and you have a 100% renewable system that would cut the need for hydro-power by about 2/3 and have an indefinite service life. But, there is a lot of NIMBY involved with solar furnaces.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2045926/Solar-plant-generate-energy-night--glowing-lightbulb-tower-thats-hot-melt-salt.html

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[K Wills (Shill #3)]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 22:01:08 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

On 16/02/2017 5:38 AM, K Wills (Shill #3) wrote:

To quote the Bible:

Could American magicians turn all e-waste into bread?

Where within the Bible can this quote be found?
I'm going to go out on a limb and declare it's something you made
up.

Not an exact quote. Just google "turn stone to bread".

Why did you LIED and claim it was a quote when you knew it was
not a quote?

--
Shill #3.
Strategic Writer, Psychotronic World Dominator and FEMA camp
counselor.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3618/5747904676_1e202191d3_b.jpg
All hail the taco! http://www.taconati.org/

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 10:04:44 AM UTC-5, Allodoxaphobia wrote:

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:14 -0800 (PST), bruce2bowser@gmail.com wrote:
For example, 3% of sunshine in the Sahara desert is enough to power all of Europe.

CITE!

Easy enough. The Sahara is 3.629 million mi². Or about 9,000,000 square km.

Solar Energy (at the equator) is about 100 watts per square foot per day. Or about 600 watts (per 8-hour day) per square meter *ON AVERAGE* world wide from about 40 degrees north and 40 degrees south.

2,771,000,000,000 is the EU power consumption in KW, annually.

Each square KM contains 1,000 x 1,000 square meters (1,000,000).

Do the math. The amount of energy involved is staggering, but 3% is extremely conservative, as the actual number is a fraction of a single percent. 3% would be better defined as 'available energy with today's technology'.

 

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 17/02/2017 5:27 PM, K Wills (Shill #3) wrote:

Not an exact quote. Just google "turn stone to bread".

Why did you LIED and claim it was a quote when you knew it was
not a quote?

Only one word in that line was changed. Fair enough in my opinion.

Could you turn e-waste and dates (fruit) into bread?

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
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[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 16/02/2017 11:30 PM, pfjw@aol.com wrote:

And that is the way of the world. Nobody does anything *TO* a country economically, short of a shooting war, that the country does not invite or demand. And China is certainly no exception to this. Start at home and ask what home-grown forces are doing before whining about what the rest of the world is doing 'to you'.

Hong Kong does not have that many scientists as in USA. The world is
depending on these clever, smart, brilliant scientists to recycle
e-waste.

I didn't know glass has asphalt.... so it's silly to blow glasses as a
job?

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
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[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 17/02/2017 8:43 PM, bruce2bowser@gmail.com wrote:

Yet the further renewable energy r & d goes, providing more with less.

I am wondering about the POLLUTANTS that was CREATED by manufacturing
renewable energy products....

I am not a smart, clever, brilliant scientist, but I am being HONEST
about it.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
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[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 17/02/2017 8:57 PM, bruce2bowser@gmail.com wrote:
> For example, 3% of sunshine in the Sahara desert is enough to power all of Europe.

Sandstorm? Corrosion? Night time temperature? And other factors...Would
they all affect the costs?

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
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[Allodoxaphobia]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:14 -0800 (PST), bruce2bowser@gmail.com wrote:
> For example, 3% of sunshine in the Sahara desert is enough to power all of Europe.

CITE!

 

On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 11:38:18 AM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:

On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 10:04:44 AM UTC-5, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 04:57:14 -0800 (PST), bruce2bowser@gmail.com wrote:
For example, 3% of sunshine in the Sahara desert is enough to power all of Europe.

CITE!

Easy enough. The Sahara is 3.629 million mi². Or about 9,000,000 square km.

Solar Energy (at the equator) is about 100 watts per square foot per day. Or about 600 watts (per 8-hour day) per square meter *ON AVERAGE* world wide from about 40 degrees north and 40 degrees south.

2,771,000,000,000 is the EU power consumption in KW, annually.

Each square KM contains 1,000 x 1,000 square meters (1,000,000).

Do the math. The amount of energy involved is staggering, but 3% is extremely conservative, as the actual number is a fraction of a single percent. 3% would be better defined as 'available energy with today's technology'.

Some people do not realize that people who can actually do the math ARE the cite.

In passing though you have described why we are still addicted to fossil fuel. Nothing else is as cheap. Per watt, per horsepower, per whatever, there is good reason we fight wars over it and piss off most of the world. There is good reason it is called black gold.

We have gotten much better at burning it. A modern car idling, which they do alot because of traffic congestion, you can almost just breathe the exhaust. Almost. Feel the exhaust from a modern car, it doesn't even burn your hand. Of ocurse on acceleration the efficiency goes to hell, but if you drive like a truck driver you know how to maximize your profit on every drop of fuel. Conserve energy and so forth. I know truck drivers and they have a whole different way.

And the truck analogy fits quite well, take some solar panels and try to haul a 53 foot trailer full of steel. You might do it at 20 MPH but the boss and the customer will not like that at all. And if it is perishable produce, all the much worse. Then you got reefer units running 24/7 and the longer you take to get there the more fuel they use. They ised to have red dyed fuel that did not have road use taxes built in for reefers etc. but from what I hear these days is is damn hard to find. It might be different in like Texas where drivig across the state is a carreer, but up here I have never seen it.

The real future is in reusing all this shit. We produce and produce, and it all goes in a landfill. We are getting to the point where maybe it won't be necessary to build a new smartphone every six months because eventually software updates will keep the yuppies and millenials happy enough. Then they get replaced when such people bring them to my Man cave and after it rings three times I shoot it. Actually the threat is enough to make them go put the dammn thing in their car, I used to just get a bucket of water and threaten to drown the MF, but now they float ! I do have yet to see one with a bulletproof vest.

See, when you come to my cave the idea is we are together and there is no hanging up, signiong out or whatever and we can have a real argument. Almost always civil, only a few times has it gotten out of hand. But IF, and that is a big IF, I decide to play media, and that means a clip or a song or anything, it runs and STFU. Unlike many people (whom I can't stand) I do not run background music or anything. There is the piece, and then there is peace.

Anyway, off I am again on a tangent. So to the point of the OP.

countries like China, Hong Kong and whoever DESERVE to be a dumping ground, they got our money. They had no problem taking that money witht he government subsidising their labor and flooding our market with product we could never undersell and have a decent standard of living. And it costs almost nothing to ship shit here, but try to ship something there. the coists are staggering, and these politicians call that free trade ? Well it migth be free but it certainly is not fair.

Every scvhooled Keynsian and other ones who have gotten this country into this mess shun isolationism, and at one time so did I. But after working on alll kinds of things over the years I have changed my mind. And in fucking spades people, I mean I even include people.

To avoid being called racist, Trump should stop ALL immigration to the US. that means H1B visas as well, if you can find someojhe here to do it, then we can't do it. Stiff tariffs, stiff enough to fuck with the bottom line of these importers.

You know I was born in the morning but not this morning. I used to read magazines and in said magazines was touted the biggest opportunity you'll ever know. Imports. You know you can buy this piece of junk for $2.99 and sell it for "$12.99 ? What is that, a 400 % profit ? And people at it up. I didn't get into it because I saw all the shit they had for sale as junk. I could not really sell what I would not buy. Perhaps that is one of my shortcomings. If not, it is a virtue that will never pay off.

But really what I saw was stupid little toys like stuffed animals and such, and these were to be marketed to adults ? Well I know about the beanie baby craze and I swear I still think that eBay, which was established to trade those toys, got named because someone developing the site had a kid and the kid couldn't talk and said "EBAY" trying to say beanie baby. Total speculation on my part but highly plausible.

The other problem is I learned too late to sell that which is useless. Let's just use the beanie baby thing as an example. Some of them go for big money buy people have to have them, or did when they were in vogue. They would buy them by the shelf full. Seriously, they might have 100 of these useless pieces of shit, but now think, how many refrigerators do they have ? We have two refrigerators and two deep freezes and we use them to save money on food, in fact I just found an old Polish butchery that has beef tenderooins for $13 a pound. you can't even buy those in the supermarkets anymore around here.

But people will buy toys like they're going out of style, like Jay Leno buys cars. But at least I think he knows what he is getting, and could drop into most of them and drive down the street. All a beanie baby is good for is for your kid to piss on. That kills the collaector value, and the thing has NO other value. but people will buy them ad infinitum. I know a guy, a hard worker who does alright and takes care of his family, but his ditzy olady literallly has ten grand worth of those pieces of shit. I would have put my foot down about that but he doesn't have it in him, plus he likes some sort of harmony having kids and all. but those thousands of dollars might come in handy if work gets slow, and the dumb bitch gave that no thought as she whipped out the credit card HE PAYS. She doesn't work at all.

I have had two friends come to me with prospects, one off the wall one but almost viable was the perpetual generator. Of course they are not, they use a few tricks to actually drain high powered permanent magnets and generate electricity. It is no more magic nor against the laws of physics than a dryt cell battery. however, for the useful life and generating capacity they are completely useless. Let me run you the numbers - the unit will power your house for about seven years. It costs nearly a million dollars to build. Now divied your electric bill into 84 months and see what you get, and then divide the cost of this unit into those same months and you can see why they didn't even bother to patent them.

Like everything else, noting beats those old dinosaurs. Then there are the electric car people and I have personal experience with them as well. Well I had their generator on my bench and found that to make the bubbbles, and the guy had the wrong design because it gave out H and O2 at the same time instead of separating them which made the whole thing extremely dangerous, at least for in the house, I measured the wattage required to separate this water and it was substantial. I d onot remember the exact figures but I think it was pulloing like 14 amps at like eight volts. that was on a small battery charger, I was not confortable with hooking up my big power supply in the house, which wil do like 120 VDC at about 6 amps. Probaby would have blown the place up.

Generally, liberals with no basic math skills think we can just jump into being totaly green. All buy $80,000 new electric cars and all this shit. The problem with them, which is what got Trump elected (god damn) is that their plans simply do not work. We need to get down and dirty like China, we need to take back those blue collar jobs, even if they are not the best jobs in the world. They reduce imports and increase exports.

And numbers lie. unemployment is 5 % ? My ass, we only got 100 million or so who even file taxes and out of them a bunch get EIC n shit and get back more than they paid in. Over twqo thirds of the people on this country are disabled, too old or young to work ? I find that hard to believe. But the number spinsters have a solution for that now, there are about a half dozen figures for unemployment, M5, M2 and whatnot IIRC. All a bunch of bullshit. When you got people with college degrees applying for entry level jobs flipping burger there is something wrong.

In the past, when someone got out of college, there was no online resume' and all that, and fresh out of school, realists thought that their dream jhob might not just come around today, so they took stopgap jobs to simply pay bills and gasoline, whatever. When they had a masters degree but just needed money they would apply to McDonalds but leave out their degree because with that on their applicatiuon they would not get hired because they were "overqualified". remember those days ?

Sorry to seem so off track here but really, what I am describing is one of the very big reasons that we do not have the innovators we used to have. What's more, since the business system seems to be working for business, they are not supporting innovators.

What I see in the future ? I see Trump fucking some things up, but I also see that he wants that innovation back. We could not put a Man on the moon today, we can't even get up to our satellites without buying rockets from Russia. Ours blow up. And this is progress ?

And this has nothing to do with political afffiliation, both parties fucked this place up. the main problem is we keep electing people who never worked a fucking day int heir lives, but then those are the only candidates running.

Go ahead and say I got too political, but realize I have expounded on WHY this problem will not be solved anytime soon. They have alot of money in the staus quo, and they ain't done milking it.

And that is another reason we need oil. Dead dinosaurs. Black gold. Texas tea. In fact, the US dollar is so dependent upon other countries using it as an echange medium (ad we start wars to keep that going) that I would say that we pretty much traded the gold standard for the oil standard.

Now Trump is going for these pipelines, but that is nothing new. When I was youyng my Father worked on components for a pipeline. However I believe, to appease others like that tribe, he should imposde HUGE (yuge ? lol) fines for any leak. Like a million dollars per gallon. Tell them skinflints not to make the pipes out of paper mache' or whatever they're using.

But we do need cheap oil to even start any economy back up. Liberals seem to think that enough ads will do it, if they sell enough, but we don't make anything to fucking sell ! Go try to buy American, closest you get is Maxico, and some cars made in Canada.

Try to buy USian. You can't. You can buy wheat, and that is touted as our export, that we export more food than we import, but try to live on wheat. You want bananas and apples and most other things they are imported, maybe half of them.

By tonnage we export more, but not by value. Wheat is a raw resource used to make breads and cakes n shit. You cannot live on it. Try.

Unfortuinately, in my analysis, soemone in another country is going to be the innovator in the next level of energy production. What's more, when I was young I never studied about the bios of the onnovators in the US. Later I did and found that many of them were off the boat or second generation. I figure, since they were ot stupid, that they came here for the favorable intellectual property laws, if not for the vast market which would get them rich fast eough not to worry about patents and such. But those fierce laws are nearly inpossible to enforce with an open market, this free trade both sides of the politicians sold us. It is a bad deal and that is that. And look at other countries. Ship this electronic part to Norway for me, why is it that this used part that weighs nothing and it not really fragile costs $70 to ship there but when I bought a harddrive it goe shipped altogewther for $52 and was at my door the same month in which it was manufactuerd.

Does this sound like fair trade to you ?

I did not reach this conclusion lightly, and I know what we lose and it is alot. But the only thing that can get this country back up on its feet is protectionism. We have to learn to be self sufficient again.

Exporting new energy producing gizmos that we invent and make money off of would be grteat, but no big money will go into that because they don't see an emd to the dead dinosaurs.

Sorry to be so long.

 

Allodaxaphobia wrote:

CITE !

La Nación Apr 21, 2011 - “0.3% of Saharan Sun Enough To Power Europe” más que noticia es una cita histórica que data del año 2008.
-- http://blogs.lanacion.com.ar/ecologico/econoticias/un-dia-para-pensar-en-el-planeta/