HITACHI V-353F OSCILLOSCOPE V-353-F

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 8:57:35 AM UTC-4, Terry Schwartz wrote:

That seems unlikely, since they are "down under". Everything is backwards there -- water drips UP from the basement to the upper floors.

You have to wonder what would happen to it if a bunch of water from the second floor dripped down on it.

There is that!

But, one of the nice things about doing "this" as a hobby, is that I have plausible deniability when it comes to expertise. But, over the last 45+/- years, some stuff has stuck.

I have started a new job in a hospital/med-school setting. One of the researchers develops and makes artificial hearts - we had a long discussion on bearings the other day.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Terry Schwartz]

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 8:54:41 AM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 8:57:35 AM UTC-4, Terry Schwartz wrote:
That seems unlikely, since they are "down under". Everything is backwards there -- water drips UP from the basement to the upper floors.

You have to wonder what would happen to it if a bunch of water from the second floor dripped down on it.

There is that!

But, one of the nice things about doing "this" as a hobby, is that I have plausible deniability when it comes to expertise. But, over the last 45+/- years, some stuff has stuck.

I have started a new job in a hospital/med-school setting. One of the researchers develops and makes artificial hearts - we had a long discussion on bearings the other day.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Peter, if I ever need an artificial heart, please let the researcher know I want mine with good old Merican bearings. The Chinese bearings are of notoriously poor quality.

 

[Sofa Slug]

On 3/16/2018 5:06 PM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

A friend of mine sent me a rather cryptic message.
Apparently he's got one of these scopes that's decided it
doesn't have to do what its supposed to.

Not reading anything on the inputs
Then it will loose one channel

I guess for a start got a link for the manual?

Hi Jeff,

I'm obviously late to this party but I found something that might help.
The following link is to a manual for the Hitachi V-152F. Judging from
the front panel layout, I think it might be a stripped down 15 MHz
version of your friend's scope. A schematic is included:

<https://sonsofinvention.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/hitachi-v-152f-oscilloscope-operation-manual/>

SS

 

[Jeff Layman]

On 19/03/18 02:30, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 18 March 2018 03:46:12 UTC, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

30 years ago I was offered a 1940s scope for ÂŁ4. I said that was far too much.
ISTR they had 2 line speeds, nothing more than a pot to select vertical sensitivity, no graticule & plenty of distortion on a 2 or 3" round CRT etc. As basic as it gets.

I think I paid ÂŁ5 around 1963 for a Cossor 3339 (or maybe 339) from Z&I
Aero in Tottenham Court Road. It weighed a ton and I never did get it to
work.

--

Jeff

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <p8p191$rdt$1@dont-email.me>, jmlayman@invalid.invalid
says...

I think I paid Ł5 around 1963 for a Cossor 3339 (or maybe 339) from Z&I
Aero in Tottenham Court Road. It weighed a ton and I never did get it to
work.

Was that the one with the sloping top part of the front panel, like a
Mansard roof (or something)? I remember Z&I Aero too, though I don't
think I would have visited London much in the early 1960s, beyond
school-leaving interviews...

Mike.

 

>"I'm obviously late to this party but I found something that might help. The following link is to a manual for the Hitachi V-152F."

Might help. Engineers to not reinvent the wheel for every different model.

Why does that display like a Wordpress page when it is in Dropbox ? I dropped Dropbox because it is not compatible with my computers and because they did away with the simple "Get Public URL" which would take a browser directly to a file and in fact could be used to host webpages, which I did. Small, but pages with links nonetheless.

 

[John-Del]

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 4:09:43 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"I'm obviously late to this party but I found something that might help. The following link is to a manual for the Hitachi V-152F."

Might help. Engineers to not reinvent the wheel for every different model..

Why does that display like a Wordpress page when it is in Dropbox ? I dropped Dropbox because it is not compatible with my computers and because they did away with the simple "Get Public URL" which would take a browser directly to a file and in fact could be used to host webpages, which I did. Small, but pages with links nonetheless.

Here's a V -209 and a V-302. Not much to them:

https://elektrotanya.com/hitachi_v-302f_2x1mv_30mhz_oscilloscope_sm.pdf/download.html

https://elektrotanya.com/hitachi_v-209_oscilloscope.pdf/download.html

 

That might help. Looking at three of them can get you some insight into the engineer's head.

I will do that tomorrow. Right now I am pretty well inebriated.

No, actually drunk.

Tomorrow. owe I thinkI amaboutto get themunchies.

 

[Jeff Layman]

On 19/03/18 19:37, Mike Coon wrote:

In article <p8p191$rdt$1@dont-email.me>, jmlayman@invalid.invalid
says...

I think I paid ÂŁ5 around 1963 for a Cossor 3339 (or maybe 339) from Z&I
Aero in Tottenham Court Road. It weighed a ton and I never did get it to
work.

Was that the one with the sloping top part of the front panel, like a
Mansard roof (or something)? I remember Z&I Aero too, though I don't
think I would have visited London much in the early 1960s, beyond
school-leaving interviews...

Not as far as I remember. Picture of 339A here:
<http://www.thevalvepage.com/testeq/cossor/339a/339a.htm>

Manual here:
<http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/archive/4869_Cossor_339_Oscillograph_Manual.pdf>

Being a Londoner, I could spend quite a bit of time in Tottenham Court
Road (and Lisle Street). There were quite a few "government surplus"
shops selling WWII stuff, including some USA Tx and Rx units. I
remember buying something with acorn valves; IIRC, a BC-624 VHF Rx. This
was for 100 - 156MHz (or should I say Mc/s in old money?!). It was
bought to scrap; at the time I couldn't even find out what it needed to
operate, other than it had a socket marked "dynamotor".

Not much surplus around in the UK now, although a year or so ago I got
an ex-Vulcan Green Satin ground radar doppler unit as a Christmas
present for a Vulcan enthusiast. I wonder where it had been stored since
it was scrapped in 1984? No semiconductors, by the way - just submin
valves. No doubt better at surviving an EMP from a hydrogen bomb, but
would there be anywhere to land?

--

Jeff

 

Wow. I don't get like that often...

I'll play though until Fox gets back with that info.

My first scope was a huge Hickok, I could barely carry it and it had this teeny about 3" screen. I was barely a teenager, maybe 13 ? I got it from the Father of an older guy I used to hang around wqith. He was incorrigible, shoplifted, got us into porn places. Made m,oney stealing new car radios and boosters from stores. One time, me at 13, he got busted and being connected he got out quick on his own recognizance. A cop comes out and said I have to follow them to the police station, and gave me the keys. Luckily I knew how to drive a stick shift. In this family you learn to drive on a stickshift. Later at his house I noticed the greyscale was off on the TV and adjusted it and his Father gave me the scope. Not triggered, and the graticule was a stick on.

My Uncle was a tech specialist at IBM, came out of the air force after working on RADAR units. He gave me a set of three books about basic electronics.. They stated that there are only three circuits and everything is just a buch of them put together. Rectifiers, amplifiers and oscillators. I have yet to really disprove it. Later he gave me a Tek 310 which was much better, triggered sweep, more modern (LOL)and really cool because it opened up like a book for service. I thought it was the coolest thing on the planet. Then I bought a 422 used. I used that scope for over a decade. I fixed things nobody else could fix, one of them because a waveform was 1.1 volts not 1 volt P-P. then my Uncle gave me a 561A with a horizontal plugin that had dual time base. Now THAT was cool. I could enlarge the part of a video signal with the VIR/VITS and actually see it. At one point they started putting one line each of an NTSC color bar pattern, a multiburst and a stairstep in the vertical interval and I could see it all very clearly after I figured out how to work that thing. I actually had to RTFM ! Fancy that.

I am not sure, I might have had a scope before a good meter. I think I had a cheap VOM. My Father built a Heathkit VTVM and I wound up with that eventually because he didn't really take to electronics, he was a job shop machinist. Worked with the engineers sometimes and was on the team that built the first machine that produced floppy disks, and I mean the old huge ones.

I got a really early start in this and at 30 could actually claim 15 years experience because I quit school to go to work. Soon I was making as much as my Parents (each not put together) At 15 I had a 1970 Olds Toronado that was too fast, and despite giving Ma half my take home pay I could afford anything I wanted, including fuel for the gas guzzler. License ? Never heard of such a thing.

And now I am practically useless. Go figure.

 

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:46:09 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

Last but not least, those who say it is not worth your time, fukum. (well not really)

They have no idea what your time is worth to you.

They have no idea what your friendship is worth to you.

They have no idea what new knowledge and techniques are worth to you.

And, analog scopes are "the bomb" in contemporary vernacular. As you teach with one you slow down the sweep so they can actually see the trace move as you connect a battery, or a speaker output from an amp. I think the study of analog scopes should be mandatory in schools at least in the beginning when they learn the basics. If you can rig up simultaneous voltage and current sensing you can demonstrate reactance, power factor and all kinds of shit in real time. You can make them understand for real rather than just able to do the math. The young need this knowledge for all that is to come, and there is no better way to instill it. I will try to save almost any DC capable scope that has triggered sweep and a decent graticule.

I have a TEK 465B. When I was learning to use it I was really jazzed
when I watched the discharge of some capacitance in a CNC control I
was diagnosing. I don't know how well a digital scope would show that
as I have no experience with digital scopes.
Eric

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <7vc2bd9erbkjpuoqqrm7quqbpa414p41mj@4ax.com>,
etpm@whidbey.com says...

I have a TEK 465B. When I was learning to use it I was really jazzed
when I watched the discharge of some capacitance in a CNC control I
was diagnosing. I don't know how well a digital scope would show that
as I have no experience with digital scopes.
Eric

I have a 465B and one of the 200 MHz storage scopes. One thing the
storage scope will allow me to do is store a trace on the screen for a
one shot event.

One thing I can not get the storage scope to do is when I put signals
into the x and y axis display for a circle or rotating circle to compair
very close frequencies. The storage scope is very poor for that while
the old analog 465B works very well. Main reason for wanting to do this
is calibrating a time base at 10 MHz from a
RF service monitor to a GPS standard. I know there are several other
ways around this and have used them.

It may be because it is an inexpensive storage scope, a Hanteck one for
about $ 300. Not sure if a more expensive one would do better or not
for this.

 

"Not sure if a more expensive one would do better or not
for this. "

I think it is a limitation of the design. Digital scopes simply are not the same.

 

[Terry Schwartz]

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 9:14:44 PM UTC-5, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"Not sure if a more expensive one would do better or not
for this. "

I think it is a limitation of the design. Digital scopes simply are not the same.

That's crap. I can make my digital scope do anything an analog or storage scope can do, and much more, better, faster, and save the waveforms indefinitely. I can make it act exactly like an analog scope if I want, with much higher resolution, bandwidth, and I'm not limited to seeing one width of the screen. In every way including triggering, the digital scope is more sophisticated and capable. I frankly can't imagine a reason to go back and use an analog scope.

 

>'I can make it act exactly like an analog scope if I want,"

Oh yeah ? let's see the dot moving across the screen at 1 second per division and demonstrate it principle to students with a battery. I want to see it. A continuous dot moving slowly across the screen. I would bet a case of beer that you can't. Even a raster scan scope can't do it as far as I have seen.

Do you have a really special one ? If not, it will blip blip blip refreshing the display and will not give you the dot moving slowly across the screen.. If I am wrong, please supply me the make and model and I will reconsider and possibly retract.

 

[Terry Schwartz]

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:33:51 AM UTC-5, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

'I can make it act exactly like an analog scope if I want,"

Oh yeah ? let's see the dot moving across the screen at 1 second per division and demonstrate it principle to students with a battery. I want to see it. A continuous dot moving slowly across the screen. I would bet a case of beer that you can't. Even a raster scan scope can't do it as far as I have seen.

Do you have a really special one ? If not, it will blip blip blip refreshing the display and will not give you the dot moving slowly across the screen. If I am wrong, please supply me the make and model and I will reconsider and possibly retract.

One of my daily use digital scopes at work is an old Tek TDS460a, it'll scan across the screen as slow as 20 seconds/division. It's not a crude dot, it's a real digitized scan with infinite persistence. I can easily demonstrate your simple battery voltage test. It also has a 400 MHz bandwidth for doing actual useful things.

How is a moving dot superior to a captured scan that one can actually see even after the signal is gone, measure with cursors, perform math functions on, overlay onto other measurements, store as a reference for recall later, label the axis's, print out, convert to a datastream, export to a file, recreate on a PC,..... ????? This is a very old CRT digital scope, the more modern LCD scopes are even more capable.

Analog scopes had their day. That day is over. Test drive any modern digital scope and you'll never look back.

You could still drive a Model T cross country, but would you?

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <447b1c87-d1a1-49ca-b6f4-9867a4cd95ea@googlegroups.com>,
jurb6006@gmail.com says...

'I can make it act exactly like an analog scope if I want,"

Oh yeah ? let's see the dot moving across the screen at 1 second per division and demonstrate it principle to students with a battery. I want to see it. A continuous dot moving slowly across the screen. I would bet a case of beer that you can't. Even a raster scan scope can't do it as far as I have seen.

Do you have a really special one ? If not, it will blip blip blip refreshing the display and will not give you the dot moving slowly across the screen. If I am wrong, please supply me the make and model and I will reconsider and possibly retract.

My digital scope is an inexpensive Hantek and it draws a line like a
pencil going across the page. At very low sweep speeds like one second
or even less it makes it eaasy to see a waveform where the 465B with
just the blip going across makes it difficult to tell what the waveform
is.

Still my gripe is the Lissajous paterns will not display very well on
the digital scope.

As in most cases it is good to have a choice between analog and
digital test equipment. Sometimes one seems to suit the situation
better than another.

 

On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 17:56:47 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:

In article <447b1c87-d1a1-49ca-b6f4-9867a4cd95ea@googlegroups.com>,
jurb6006@gmail.com says...

'I can make it act exactly like an analog scope if I want,"

Oh yeah ? let's see the dot moving across the screen at 1 second per division and demonstrate it principle to students with a battery. I want to see it. A continuous dot moving slowly across the screen. I would bet a case of beer that you can't. Even a raster scan scope can't do it as far as I have seen.

Do you have a really special one ? If not, it will blip blip blip refreshing the display and will not give you the dot moving slowly across the screen. If I am wrong, please supply me the make and model and I will reconsider and possibly retract.



My digital scope is an inexpensive Hantek and it draws a line like a
pencil going across the page. At very low sweep speeds like one second
or even less it makes it eaasy to see a waveform where the 465B with
just the blip going across makes it difficult to tell what the waveform
is.

Still my gripe is the Lissajous paterns will not display very well on
the digital scope.

As in most cases it is good to have a choice between analog and
digital test equipment. Sometimes one seems to suit the situation
better than another.

I don't really need a digital scope, and from what I have read about
them 100 MHz is pretty low for a lot of work. But the Hantek ones do
get good reviews and are fairly cheap. So I might get one just for
fun.
Eric

 

>"
My digital scope is an inexpensive Hantek and it draws a line like a
pencil going across the page. At very low sweep speeds like one second
or even less it makes it eaasy to see a waveform where the 465B with
just the blip going across makes it difficult to tell what the waveform is"

As I told Terry S., I have never seen a digital scope do that. And emulating a variable persistence CRT, well that is cool as well. i still like the old scopes. If I were a billionaire I would but an older car. A 1960s or 70s high powered gas guzzling monster that should be licensed as a deadly weapon. My first car was a 1970 Olds Toronado, I still had passing gear at 105 MPH. I know newer cars with much smaller engines can go just as fast, but this thing did it effortlessly. P{ush a 4 cylinder to those limits and you are beating on it. Variable valve timing and direct cylinder injection is nice but it has thousands more moving parts. To move is to wear.

Maybe I am an old fuddy duddy, but I like it, and the old music. I welcome a lawsuit from RIAA because the gigs of music I downloaded used to be in public domain. In fact even movies. Everything I like is old. New and improved is an anethma to me.

 

>"One of my daily use digital scopes at work is an old Tek TDS460a, it'll scan across the screen as slow as 20 seconds/division."

In my albeit limited experience with sampling scopes I have never seen one do that. I also noticed like noise in the trace that was indiscernable which I thought would be on an analog scope.

I guess I'll have to test drive one. Speaking of driving :

>"You could still drive a Model T cross country, but would you? "

Yes I would and I would love every minute of it. But I admiot that it would not be a daily driver.

>"Analog scopes had their day. That day is over."

Not as long as they work. You know there are people who can't stand an LCD TV. I have read that some have a wider optical response to the spectrum, perhaps that is the reason. But they either stick with CRT TVs or buy a plasma, I guess because it is actually a phosphor screen.

But so far I have never met a digital scope I liked. Of course that may change in time.