Help with MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y chip please.

Hi,
First of all let me apologise for my ignorance of electronics, but
hopefully some kind sole out there may take pity on me and be able to
help me with my problem.
The problem I have is with the instrument cluster on my car which has
recently developed a fault. After a lot of Internet trawling I have
discovered that the fault is caused by the MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y chip,
this chip is responsible for driving all of the gauges, dials and
lamps etc.
The fault takes the form of the gauges & warning lamps pulsing &
flashing when the ignition is turned on. This fault condition can last
anywhere between 20 seconds & a few minutes before the instruments
return to normal operation. My research has turned up the fact that
the fault is temperature related & when it's cold the fault persists
for longer than it does when it is warmer.

Is it possible to read this chip if it were removed from the
instrument cluster?

I have read that the chip is code protected but then I have read of
them being read so I'm a bit confused?

If it can be read can I buy a new chip & programme the dump of the
defective chip (if it's possible to get one) onto the new chip?

What would sort of programmer would I need to do this?

Thank you & here's hoping for some advice with this problem.


Regards.

 

[Rich Webb]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:37:48 -0800 (PST), tel1e@hotmail.com wrote:

Hi,
First of all let me apologise for my ignorance of electronics, but
hopefully some kind sole out there may take pity on me and be able to
help me with my problem.
The problem I have is with the instrument cluster on my car which has
recently developed a fault. After a lot of Internet trawling I have
discovered that the fault is caused by the MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y chip,
this chip is responsible for driving all of the gauges, dials and
lamps etc.
The fault takes the form of the gauges & warning lamps pulsing &
flashing when the ignition is turned on. This fault condition can last
anywhere between 20 seconds & a few minutes before the instruments
return to normal operation. My research has turned up the fact that
the fault is temperature related & when it's cold the fault persists
for longer than it does when it is warmer.

Is it possible to read this chip if it were removed from the
instrument cluster?

I have read that the chip is code protected but then I have read of
them being read so I'm a bit confused?

If it can be read can I buy a new chip & programme the dump of the
defective chip (if it's possible to get one) onto the new chip?

Maybe. "A security feature discourages unauthorized reading of FLASH
locations while in monitor mode. The host can bypass the security
feature at monitor mode entry by sending eight security bytes that match
the bytes at locations $FFF6–$FFFD. Locations $FFF6–$FFFD contain
user-defined data."

Some links that you found during your trawling may help clarify, but I'd
normally bet against the uC itself as being the source of the problems,
especially if it's otherwise operating properly once everything warms
up. Could be temperature drift of the oscillator. May be from a
low-voltage reset, or something as simple as a bad solder joint.

What would sort of programmer would I need to do this?

Lots of hits on "MC68HC908 programmer."

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

On 19 Dec, 18:28, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:37:48 -0800 (PST), te...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First of all let me apologise for my ignorance of electronics, but
hopefully some kind sole out there may take pity on me and be able to
help me with my problem.
The problem I have is with the instrument cluster on my car which has
recently developed a fault. After a lot of Internet trawling I have
discovered that the fault is caused by the MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y chip,
this chip is responsible for driving all of the gauges, dials and
lamps etc.
The fault takes the form of the gauges & warning lamps pulsing &
flashing when the ignition is turned on. This fault condition can last
anywhere between 20 seconds & a few minutes before the instruments
return to normal operation. My research has turned up the fact that
the fault is temperature related & when it's cold the fault persists
for longer than it does when it is warmer.

Is it possible to read this chip if it were removed from the
instrument cluster?

I have read that the chip is code protected but then I have read of
them being read so I'm a bit confused?

If it can be read can I buy a new chip & programme the dump of the
defective chip (if it's possible to get one) onto the new chip?

Maybe. "A security feature discourages unauthorized reading of FLASH
locations while in monitor mode. The host can bypass the security
feature at monitor mode entry by sending eight security bytes that match
the bytes at locations $FFF6–$FFFD. Locations $FFF6–$FFFD contain
user-defined data."

Some links that you found during your trawling may help clarify, but I'd
normally bet against the uC itself as being the source of the problems,
especially if it's otherwise operating properly once everything warms
up. Could be temperature drift of the oscillator. May be from a
low-voltage reset, or something as simple as a bad solder joint.

What would sort of programmer would I need to do this?

Lots of hits on "MC68HC908 programmer."

--
Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi,
Thanks for your reply.

Apparently this chip is used in a lot of vehicle instrument clusters &
seems to cause a lot of problems.
In the article that I found where this chip was identified as the
culprit the guy testing his cluster was quite experienced with
electronics & stated that he was 100% sure that this was the cause of
the problem.

You can read the article here, its the first post...

http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55361&hilit=motorola+dashpod

If you look at page 3 of the thread you will see a reply from the
manufacturer of the chip (Freescale Semiconductors) explaining what
the problem could be....no doubt you will make more sense of it than
me.

Regards.

 

[Rich Webb]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:13:52 -0800 (PST), tel1e@hotmail.com wrote:

Apparently this chip is used in a lot of vehicle instrument clusters &
seems to cause a lot of problems.
In the article that I found where this chip was identified as the
culprit the guy testing his cluster was quite experienced with
electronics & stated that he was 100% sure that this was the cause of
the problem.

You can read the article here, its the first post...

http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55361&hilit=motorola+dashpod

If you look at page 3 of the thread you will see a reply from the
manufacturer of the chip (Freescale Semiconductors) explaining what
the problem could be....no doubt you will make more sense of it than
me.

From the linked discussion, it does seem that a "weak bit" leading to an
illegal instruction/address fault or infinite loop and subsequent COP
reset might be causing the problems. The chip's manual does have rather
a lot of warnings about using just the right programming algorithm --
not too much, not too little -- and that there is (was) a newer
generation of flash in the pipeline.

I'm not an HC08 jock, so you may also ask in comp.arch.embedded for
opinions, but it should be possible to at least try getting into monitor
mode (i.e., activate the chip's firmware serial monitor program). Then
IF the security bytes are unprogrammed it should be possible to read out
the contents.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Chungho@zongazonga.zip]

this chip is responsible for driving all of the gauges, dials and
lamps etc.
The fault takes the form of the gauges & warning lamps pulsing &
flashing when the ignition is turned on. This fault condition can last
anywhere between 20 seconds & a few minutes before the instruments
return to normal operation. My research has turned up the fact that
the fault is temperature related & when it's cold the fault persists
for longer than it does when it is warmer.

Before risking the chip to an unsure reading process, I would check
that the reset circuit is not sending multiple pulses to the chip.
The reset is responsible for setting the digital stuff to the
same sync point and initialize the startup values... If it's sending
multiple pulses, it can cause similar problems. Sometimes the reset
is simply a single small chip or Transistor-resistor-Capacitor-cmos gate
arrangement. A good logic probe or O-scope should help.

Cars power systems are very harsh... so there would mostlikely be a voltage
regulator for that chip somewhere near it. I would check that those parts
haven't degraded.. Flakey regulator, clamping diodes, capacitors can cause noise
on the PS lines. A Fast needle meter or O-scope should help here.



--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.8 Final
Web @ http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -

 

[Jamie]

tel1e@hotmail.com wrote:

On 20 Dec, 01:16, SloppyChoppy (Chun...@zongazonga.zip) wrote:


Before risking the chip to an unsure reading process, I would check
that the reset circuit is not sending multiple pulses to the chip.
The reset is responsible for setting the digital stuff to the
same sync point and initialize the startup values... If it's sending
multiple pulses, it can cause similar problems. Sometimes the reset
is simply a single small chip or Transistor-resistor-Capacitor-cmos gate
arrangement. A good logic probe or O-scope should help.

Cars power systems are very harsh... so there would mostlikely be a voltage
regulator for that chip somewhere near it. I would check that those parts
haven't degraded.. Flakey regulator, clamping diodes, capacitors can cause noise
on the PS lines. A Fast needle meter or O-scope should help here.

--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.8 Final
Web @http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -


Hi,
Thanks for your help....here's a few pictures of the circuit
board...can you see / direct me to any of the components you mention.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/on1wheel_2006/Picture001.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/on1wheel_2006/Picture007.jpg


Regards.
Get out your magnifying glass and look for cracked solder joints. Then,

with component coolant spray, after the board has heated up to the
working stage. Spray little area's to seek a failure spot..

Beyond that with your apparent skill set, I think you should pass it
on to some one else if you really want that board repaired. Other wise,
simply buy a new board.

Sorry if that wasn't the answer you were seeking for.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

On 20 Dec, 01:16, SloppyChoppy (Chun...@zongazonga.zip) wrote:

Before risking the chip to an unsure reading process, I would check
that the reset circuit is not sending multiple pulses to the chip.
The reset is responsible for setting the digital stuff to the
same sync point and initialize the startup values...  If it's sending
multiple pulses, it can cause similar problems.  Sometimes the reset
is simply a single small chip or Transistor-resistor-Capacitor-cmos gate
arrangement.  A good logic probe or O-scope should help.

Cars power systems are very harsh... so there would mostlikely be a voltage
regulator for that chip somewhere near it.  I would check that those parts
haven't degraded.. Flakey regulator, clamping diodes, capacitors can cause noise
on the PS lines.  A Fast needle meter or O-scope should help here.

--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.8 Final
Web @http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -

Hi,
Thanks for your help....here's a few pictures of the circuit
board...can you see / direct me to any of the components you mention.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/on1wheel_2006/Picture001.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/on1wheel_2006/Picture007.jpg


Regards.

 

On 20 Dec, 18:02, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:

te...@hotmail.com wrote:
On 20 Dec, 01:16, SloppyChoppy (Chun...@zongazonga.zip) wrote:

Before risking the chip to an unsure reading process, I would check
that the reset circuit is not sending multiple pulses to the chip.
The reset is responsible for setting the digital stuff to the
same sync point and initialize the startup values...  If it's sending
multiple pulses, it can cause similar problems.  Sometimes the reset
is simply a single small chip or Transistor-resistor-Capacitor-cmos gate
arrangement.  A good logic probe or O-scope should help.

Cars power systems are very harsh... so there would mostlikely be a voltage
regulator for that chip somewhere near it.  I would check that those parts
haven't degraded.. Flakey regulator, clamping diodes, capacitors can cause noise
on the PS lines.  A Fast needle meter or O-scope should help here.

--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.8 Final
Web @http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -

Hi,
Thanks for your help....here's a few pictures of the circuit
board...can you see / direct me to any of the components you mention.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/on1wheel_2006/Picture001.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/on1wheel_2006/Picture007.jpg

Regards.

Get out your magnifying glass and look for cracked solder joints. Then,
with component coolant spray, after the board has heated up to the
working stage. Spray little area's to seek a failure spot..

   Beyond that with your apparent skill set, I think you should pass it
on to some one else if you really want that board repaired. Other wise,
  simply buy a new board.

   Sorry if that wasn't the answer you were seeking for.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for that...

I did warn you that I was Dangerously under qualified for this
project...LOL

The guy in this thread done exactly what you suggested & found the
failure point to be the MC68HC908AZ60

Thanks.

 

On 20 Dec, 18:11, te...@hotmail.com wrote:

On 20 Dec, 18:02, Jamie





jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
te...@hotmail.com wrote:
On 20 Dec, 01:16, SloppyChoppy (Chun...@zongazonga.zip) wrote:

Before risking the chip to an unsure reading process, I would check
that the reset circuit is not sending multiple pulses to the chip.
The reset is responsible for setting the digital stuff to the
same sync point and initialize the startup values...  If it's sending
multiple pulses, it can cause similar problems.  Sometimes the reset
is simply a single small chip or Transistor-resistor-Capacitor-cmos gate
arrangement.  A good logic probe or O-scope should help.

Cars power systems are very harsh... so there would mostlikely be a voltage
regulator for that chip somewhere near it.  I would check that those parts
haven't degraded.. Flakey regulator, clamping diodes, capacitors can cause noise
on the PS lines.  A Fast needle meter or O-scope should help here.

--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.8 Final
Web @http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -

Hi,
Thanks for your help....here's a few pictures of the circuit
board...can you see / direct me to any of the components you mention.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/on1wheel_2006/Picture001.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p256/on1wheel_2006/Picture007.jpg

Regards.

Get out your magnifying glass and look for cracked solder joints. Then,
with component coolant spray, after the board has heated up to the
working stage. Spray little area's to seek a failure spot..

   Beyond that with your apparent skill set, I think you should pass it
on to some one else if you really want that board repaired. Other wise,
  simply buy a new board.

   Sorry if that wasn't the answer you were seeking for.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for that...

I did warn you that I was Dangerously under qualified for this
project...LOL

The guy in this thread done exactly what you suggested & found the
failure point to be the MC68HC908AZ60

Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55361&hilit=motor....

 

Anyone know where I would be able to buy a new MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y
chip from...don't seem to be able to find one anywhere?

Thanks.

 

[Rich Webb]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:38:54 -0800 (PST), tel1e@hotmail.com wrote:

Anyone know where I would be able to buy a new MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y
chip from...don't seem to be able to find one anywhere?

This document
<http://www.freescale.com/files/soft_dev_tools/doc/user_guide/HCO8MON08UG.pdf?fsrch=1>
seems to imply that the "2J74Y" specifies a particular mask applied to a
more general purpose part. They may no longer be available.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

tel1e@hotmail.com wrote:

Anyone know where I would be able to buy a new MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y
chip from...don't seem to be able to find one anywhere?

Thanks.

Do you have the software to program it & a programer a MC68HC908AZ60?
2J74Y is the production date code, not part of the part number. I have
programed these, a long time ago. You need to download and read the
Motorola book on the MC68HC908AZ60 before trying to replace it. The
only place you would find a programed, drop in replacment would be frpm
the OEM of that PC board, or an identical board. The book is 480 pages.
The MC68HC908AZ60 is not a simple MPU chip:


Features of the MC68HC908AZ60 include:
• High-Performance M68HC08 Architecture
• Fully Upward-Compatible Object Code with M6805, M146805, and M68HC05
Families
• 8.4 MHz Internal Bus Frequency
• 60 Kbytes of FLASH Electrically Erasable Read-Only Memory (FLASH)
• FLASH Data Security
• 1 Kbyte of On-Chip Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory
with Security Option (EEPROM)
• 2 Kbyte of On-Chip RAM
• Clock Generator Module (CGM)
• Serial Peripheral Interface Module (SPI)
• Serial Communications Interface Module (SCI)
• 8-Bit, 15-Channel Analog-to-Digital Converter (ADC-15)
• 16-Bit, 6-Channel Timer Interface Module (TIMA-6)
• Programmable Interrupt Timer (PIT)
• System Protection Features
– Computer Operating Properly (COP) with Optional Reset
– Low-Voltage Detection with Optional Reset
– Illegal Opcode Detection with Optional Reset
– Illegal Address Detection with Optional Reset
• Low-Power Design (Fully Static with Stop and Wait Modes)
• Master Reset Pin and Power-On Reset
• 16-Bit, 2-Channel Timer Interface Module (TIMB)
• 5-Bit Keyboard Interrupt Module
• MSCAN Controller (Motorola Scalable CAN) implements CAN
2.0b Protocol as Defined in BOSCH Specification September 1991

Features of the CPU08 include:

• Enhanced HC05 Programming Model
• Extensive Loop Control Functions
• 16 Addressing Modes (Eight More Than the HC05)
• 16-Bit Index Register and Stack Pointer
• Memory-to-Memory Data Transfers
• Fast 8´8 Multiply Instruction
• Fast 16/8 Divide Instruction
• Binary-Coded Decimal (BCD) Instructions
• Optimization for Controller Applications
• C Language Support


http://www.etlweb.com/doc/mc68hc908az60.pdf which is a 3,920,559 byte
file.


--
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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

On 22 Dec, 15:18, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

te...@hotmail.com wrote:

Anyone know where I would be able to buy a new MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y
chip from...don't seem to be able to find one anywhere?

Thanks.

   Do you have the software to program it & a programer a MC68HC908AZ60?
2J74Y is the production date code, not part of the part number.  I have
programed these, a long time ago. You need to download and read the
Motorola book on the MC68HC908AZ60 before trying to replace it.  The
only place you would find a programed, drop in replacment would be frpm
the OEM of that PC board, or an identical board.  The book is 480 pages..
The MC68HC908AZ60 is not a simple MPU chip:

Features of the MC68HC908AZ60 include:
• High-Performance M68HC08 Architecture
• Fully Upward-Compatible Object Code with M6805, M146805, and M68HC05
Families
• 8.4 MHz Internal Bus Frequency
• 60 Kbytes of FLASH Electrically Erasable Read-Only Memory (FLASH)
• FLASH Data Security
• 1 Kbyte of On-Chip Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory
with Security Option (EEPROM)
• 2 Kbyte of On-Chip RAM
• Clock Generator Module (CGM)
• Serial Peripheral Interface Module (SPI)
• Serial Communications Interface Module (SCI)
• 8-Bit, 15-Channel Analog-to-Digital Converter (ADC-15)
• 16-Bit, 6-Channel Timer Interface Module (TIMA-6)
• Programmable Interrupt Timer (PIT)
• System Protection Features
– Computer Operating Properly (COP) with Optional Reset
– Low-Voltage Detection with Optional Reset
– Illegal Opcode Detection with Optional Reset
– Illegal Address Detection with Optional Reset
• Low-Power Design (Fully Static with Stop and Wait Modes)
• Master Reset Pin and Power-On Reset
• 16-Bit, 2-Channel Timer Interface Module (TIMB)
• 5-Bit Keyboard Interrupt Module
• MSCAN Controller (Motorola Scalable CAN) implements CAN
2.0b Protocol as Defined in BOSCH Specification September 1991

Features of the CPU08 include:

• Enhanced HC05 Programming Model
• Extensive Loop Control Functions
• 16 Addressing Modes (Eight More Than the HC05)
• 16-Bit Index Register and Stack Pointer
• Memory-to-Memory Data Transfers
• Fast 8´8 Multiply Instruction
• Fast 16/8 Divide Instruction
• Binary-Coded Decimal (BCD) Instructions
• Optimization for Controller Applications
• C Language Support

http://www.etlweb.com/doc/mc68hc908az60.pdfwhich is a 3,920,559 byte
file.

--http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account:http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

No I haven't a programmer for this chip....I was hoping maybe one of
you guys would have & maybe you fancy a challange....LOL

From what I have read it's not the chip that's faulty, it's the way it
has been programmed.....have a read of this....

"it's the Motorola MC68HC908AZ60 and the chip was never faulty as such
- it was the way it was programmed. I think Magnetti Marelli are being
confused for Marconi here but the actual chip was made by Motorola
(now called Freescale Semiconductor)

The Motorola chip a FLASH device that stores programme code in on-chip
non-volatile memory which is electrically programmed in production.
The code is stored in the form of electrical charge in the memory
cells. If the timings used in signalling to the processor are
incorrect (like if it's done in a rush), then weak charge storage is
the result. This can cause the memory cells to be misread when the
chip is cold and as time goes by, the problem gets worse and more
frequent, with perhaps two or three years of functionality before the
problem gets so bad that the car is rendered immobile.

The areas affected are various but can cause:

* "dancing needles" - where the processor continually attempts to
restart without success until it warms up a little.

* Fuel, temperature and other gauge calibration issues - where even
attempts to re-calibrate the cal number stored in memory fail to have
an effect, suggesting that the programme is reading another memory
location in error due to the corruption.

* LCD image corruption - a strange artifact in a background bitmap
image was seen to change size and shape with time and temperature - a
rare glimpse of the corruption in action - presumably the area of code
where the bitmaps are stored.

There is no telling in which areas of code that the corruption starts.

Not all dashpod problems are down to this chip, but many were.
Reprogramming the chip correctly should cure it"

Regards.

 

[P.]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:37:48 -0800 (PST), tel1e@hotmail.com wrote:

Hi,
First of all let me apologise for my ignorance of electronics, but
hopefully some kind sole out there may take pity on me and be able to
help me with my problem.
The problem I have is with the instrument cluster on my car which has
recently developed a fault. After a lot of Internet trawling I have
discovered that the fault is caused by the MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y chip,
this chip is responsible for driving all of the gauges, dials and
lamps etc.
The fault takes the form of the gauges & warning lamps pulsing &
flashing when the ignition is turned on. This fault condition can last
anywhere between 20 seconds & a few minutes before the instruments
return to normal operation. My research has turned up the fact that
the fault is temperature related & when it's cold the fault persists
for longer than it does when it is warmer.

So it is temparature related. This is however often due to soldering
problems. Check all solderjoints with a magnifying glass first. And
then check what the power supply does during power up, and the rest of
the reset and data lines, with an oscilloscope. It can also be the PCB
itself.

Is it possible to read this chip if it were removed from the
instrument cluster?

I advise against this. Too early in your search.

The problem only seems to exists at a certain temperature. What you
can do is use a freezing spray. And carefully cool down parts of the
pcb. This will lead you to the cause of the problems.

Do not spray too much, you do not want condensed weater on the pcb,
only cool it down a little. Start with the bad chip.

Success,
P.

 

On 22 Dec, 19:07, P. <dit3_werkt_ook_n...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:37:48 -0800 (PST), te...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First of all let me apologise for my ignorance of electronics, but
hopefully some kind sole out there may take pity on me and be able to
help me with my problem.
The problem I have is with the instrument cluster on my car which has
recently developed a fault. After a lot of Internet trawling I have
discovered that the fault is caused by the MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y chip,
this chip is responsible for driving all of the gauges, dials and
lamps etc.
The fault takes the form of the gauges & warning lamps pulsing &
flashing when the ignition is turned on. This fault condition can last
anywhere between 20 seconds & a few minutes before the instruments
return to normal operation. My research has turned up the fact that
the fault is temperature related & when it's cold the fault persists
for longer than it does when it is warmer.

So it is temparature related. This is however often due to soldering
problems. Check all solderjoints with a magnifying glass first. And
then check what the power supply does during power up, and the rest of
the reset and data lines, with an oscilloscope. It can also be the PCB
itself.

Is it possible to read this chip if it were removed from the
instrument cluster?

I advise against this. Too early in your search.

The problem only seems to exists at a certain temperature. What you
can do is use a freezing spray. And carefully cool down parts of the
pcb. This will lead you to the cause of the problems.

Do not spray too much, you do not want condensed weater on the pcb,
only cool it down a little. Start with the bad chip.

Success,
P.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi,
The solder joints have all been checked & re-flowed just to make sure!

The chip has already been identified as causing the problem using the
method you describe....read the first post of this thread.... & the
first post on page 3

http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55361&hilit=motorola+dashpod&sid=3ae3bd46b83fe8e419c62719745970c4

The problem with my instruments only seems to happen when the
temperature is below 9 degrees C


It would appear that it is possible to read the chip.....Read
this.....

http://www.codecard.lt/electronic/car-electronic-repair-parts/renault-laguna-mc68hc908az60-2j74y-processor-already-programmed-for-repair-renault-laguna-2001-2004-dashboard-repair/prod_123.html

Maybe this company can supply me a chip with the correct mileage in
Miles & not km's.

From what I have read about this problem it seems that the chip has
originally been programmed out of spec...whatever that means....if the
chip is read at room temperature & them reprogrammed with the same
dump apparently it has a very good chance of fixing the problem.



Cheers.

 

On 22 Dec, 23:25, te...@hotmail.com wrote:

On 22 Dec, 19:07, P. <dit3_werkt_ook_n...@hotmail.com> wrote:





On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:37:48 -0800 (PST), te...@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First of all let me apologise for my ignorance of electronics, but
hopefully some kind sole out there may take pity on me and be able to
help me with my problem.
The problem I have is with the instrument cluster on my car which has
recently developed a fault. After a lot of Internet trawling I have
discovered that the fault is caused by the MC68HC908AZ60 2J74Y chip,
this chip is responsible for driving all of the gauges, dials and
lamps etc.
The fault takes the form of the gauges & warning lamps pulsing &
flashing when the ignition is turned on. This fault condition can last
anywhere between 20 seconds & a few minutes before the instruments
return to normal operation. My research has turned up the fact that
the fault is temperature related & when it's cold the fault persists
for longer than it does when it is warmer.

So it is temparature related. This is however often due to soldering
problems. Check all solderjoints with a magnifying glass first. And
then check what the power supply does during power up, and the rest of
the reset and data lines, with an oscilloscope. It can also be the PCB
itself.

Is it possible to read this chip if it were removed from the
instrument cluster?

I advise against this. Too early in your search.

The problem only seems to exists at a certain temperature. What you
can do is use a freezing spray. And carefully cool down parts of the
pcb. This will lead you to the cause of the problems.

Do not spray too much, you do not want condensed weater on the pcb,
only cool it down a little. Start with the bad chip.

Success,
P.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi,
The solder joints have all been checked & re-flowed just to make sure!

The chip has already been identified as causing the problem using the
method you describe....read the first post of this thread.... & the
first post on page 3

http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55361&hilit=motor...

The problem with my instruments only seems to happen when the
temperature is below 9 degrees C

It would appear that it is possible to read the chip.....Read
this.....

http://www.codecard.lt/electronic/car-electronic-repair-parts/renault...

Maybe this company can supply me a chip with the correct mileage in
Miles & not km's.

From what I have read about this problem it seems that the chip has
originally been programmed out of spec...whatever that means....if the
chip is read at room temperature & them reprogrammed with the same
dump apparently it has a very good chance of fixing the problem.

Cheers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So have none of you out there reading this got a programmer or
anything that would read this chip ?

 

[Clint Sharp]

In message
<3539308b-6c3d-468b-90da-b85660a8df1d@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
tel1e@hotmail.com writes

So have none of you out there reading this got a programmer or
anything that would read this chip ?
I would suspect that whatever security devices were built into the chip

by Motorola will have been enabled when the device was programmed by
whoever built the dashboard originally to prevent people reading the
code out.

It's highly likely that the mileage is stored in the EEPROM area of the
chip, not the main program flash and the companies that offer 'mileage
correction' are just reading and altering that area, having nothing to
do with program code.

As for the fault you have, it's more likely that whatever supply voltage
is used for your device has become marginal or the clock oscillator has
changed enough that the device can't start at lower temperatures,
possibly a combination of the two. If the device is mounted on a
flexible membrane then I'd suggest cracked tracks as another possiblity.

It's unlikely (but not impossible) that the device is faulty.


--
Clint Sharp

 

On 28 Dec, 09:19, Clint Sharp <cl...@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message
3539308b-6c3d-468b-90da-b85660a8d...@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
te...@hotmail.com writes>So have none of you out there reading this got a programmer or
anything that would read this chip ?

I would suspect that whatever security devices were built into the chip
by Motorola will have been enabled when the device was programmed by
whoever built the dashboard originally to prevent people reading the
code out.

It's highly likely that the mileage is stored in the EEPROM area of the
chip, not the main program flash and the companies that offer 'mileage
correction' are just reading and altering that area, having nothing to
do with program code.

As for the fault you have, it's more likely that whatever supply voltage
is used for your device has become marginal or the clock oscillator has
changed enough that the device can't start at lower temperatures,
possibly a combination of the two. If the device is mounted on a
flexible membrane then I'd suggest cracked tracks as another possiblity.

It's unlikely (but not impossible) that the device is faulty.

--
Clint Sharp

Hi,
Clint if you look at post #6 in this thread you can see 2 links to
pictures of the chip on the circuit board.

Yeah I believe the mileage is stored in the EEPROM area of the
chip.

Regards.

 

Found this....

http://www.etlweb.com/prod_prog_mc68hc908az60.html

Reading through the programmers user guide (PDF) it appears that the
protection code on the chip can be bypassed so that you can read
it...or that's how I read it...what do you think?


Cheers.

 

[Rich Webb]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:42:38 -0800 (PST), tel1e@hotmail.com wrote:

Found this....

http://www.etlweb.com/prod_prog_mc68hc908az60.html

Reading through the programmers user guide (PDF) it appears that the
protection code on the chip can be bypassed so that you can read
it...or that's how I read it...what do you think?

Well, there are 8 bytes that make up the security code. A brute force
approach has to contend with 2^64 possible combinations. The ROM monitor
that accepts (or not) the security bytes communicates at up to 28.8
KBaud. Each byte is echoed back, so the effective max rate is 14.4 KB.
With 2^64 combinations, and 8*(1+8+1) bits per combination (send 8 bytes
with start & stop bits, look for a break char, if not seen then reset
and try again), a worst-case condition would require 80*2^64/14400
seconds, or 102.5E15 seconds or about 1.2E12 days, not counting reset
time or testing for a break condition. If the expected value is half of
that, it's about 1.6E9 years.

At least, that's how I read the datasheet.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA