Heat seaking radar !

[Pooh Bear]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:55:11 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:43:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:44:20 +0100, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

in yet another episode of this epic series ( now screened in the UK too
) about America's most stupid examples of how to use a Police car .....
Sheriff John Bunnell referred to the use of helicopters with * heat
seeking radar * !

Now, what are the cops keeping from the military here ?

Graham

There _is_ thermal-imaging radar.


There is?

John

Yep. What do you think is in a lot of our small air-to-air and
ground-to-air missiles?

And, night-vision goggles are thermal imaging.

Optical stuff Jim. Not radio frequency. Incidentally ISTR that germanium makes
good IR lenses.


Graham

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 00:57:00 +0100, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:55:11 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:43:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:44:20 +0100, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

in yet another episode of this epic series ( now screened in the UK too
) about America's most stupid examples of how to use a Police car .....
Sheriff John Bunnell referred to the use of helicopters with * heat
seeking radar * !

Now, what are the cops keeping from the military here ?

Graham

There _is_ thermal-imaging radar.


There is?

John

Yep. What do you think is in a lot of our small air-to-air and
ground-to-air missiles?

And, night-vision goggles are thermal imaging.

Optical stuff Jim. Not radio frequency. Incidentally ISTR that germanium makes
good IR lenses.

Good, *expensive* lenses.

John

 

[keith]

On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:08:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:33:12 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 18:30:29 GMT, Mac <foo@bar.net> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 10:48:46 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]

Heat-seeking radar is _called radar_, but is not radar in the classic
sense of the name.

...Jim Thompson

OK, I think I get it. You are saying that the term "heat-seeking radar"
is in use, and is reasonably well-defined among those who use it, even if
it makes purists cringe.

Would that be a fair characterization of your position?

--Mac

Yep.

...Jim Thompson


The term "Heat-seeking radar" is rare, because it's wrong.

I'd suggest that it possibly would be called passive LIDAR, after the
(also wrong) passive SONAR, but RADAR? Where's the "ranging" part?

--
Keith

 

[keith]

On Tue, 31 May 2005 15:34:51 +0000, Jim Yanik wrote:

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in
news:f1vo91h9qf4qffjvqt8urvhhrlho9o6hoq@4ax.com:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:55:11 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:43:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:44:20 +0100, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

in yet another episode of this epic series ( now screened in the UK
too ) about America's most stupid examples of how to use a Police
car ..... Sheriff John Bunnell referred to the use of helicopters
with * heat seeking radar * !

Now, what are the cops keeping from the military here ?

Graham

There _is_ thermal-imaging radar.


There is?

John

Yep. What do you think is in a lot of our small air-to-air and
ground-to-air missiles?

Staring or scanning video cameras and signal processing.


And, night-vision goggles are thermal imaging.

...Jim Thompson

Uh,radar -transmits- a radio signal that is reflected and received;the
thermal imagers are just passive viewing of radiation emitted BY an
object;thus not a "radar".Otherwise,any video camera would be a "radar".
LIDAR is a laser-based "radar".

And night-vision goggles are NOT "thermal" imaging,they are LOW-LIGHT
amplifying.They use whatever light levels exists.They have responses down
into the IR region,though.Some are expressly filtered to only respond to
near-IR wavelengths.But still use reflected existing light,not what's
emitted as heat from the object.

Really? I remember the warm engines of the Iraqi tanks showing up in the
videos of Desert Storm. I thought they went well into the body-heat
threshold. Hell, even IR gates do that (and get stubborn when it gets to
95F).

--
Keith

 

[Jim Yanik]

keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in
newsan.2005.06.01.01.51.45.855984@att.bizzzz:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 15:34:51 +0000, Jim Yanik wrote:

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in
news:f1vo91h9qf4qffjvqt8urvhhrlho9o6hoq@4ax.com:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:55:11 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:43:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:44:20 +0100, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

in yet another episode of this epic series ( now screened in the
UK too ) about America's most stupid examples of how to use a
Police car ..... Sheriff John Bunnell referred to the use of
helicopters with * heat seeking radar * !

Now, what are the cops keeping from the military here ?

Graham

There _is_ thermal-imaging radar.


There is?

John

Yep. What do you think is in a lot of our small air-to-air and
ground-to-air missiles?

Staring or scanning video cameras and signal processing.


And, night-vision goggles are thermal imaging.

...Jim Thompson

Uh,radar -transmits- a radio signal that is reflected and
received;the thermal imagers are just passive viewing of radiation
emitted BY an object;thus not a "radar".Otherwise,any video camera
would be a "radar". LIDAR is a laser-based "radar".

And night-vision goggles are NOT "thermal" imaging,they are LOW-LIGHT
amplifying.They use whatever light levels exists.They have responses
down into the IR region,though.Some are expressly filtered to only
respond to near-IR wavelengths.But still use reflected existing
light,not what's emitted as heat from the object.

Really? I remember the warm engines of the Iraqi tanks showing up in
the videos of Desert Storm. I thought they went well into the
body-heat threshold. Hell, even IR gates do that (and get stubborn
when it gets to 95F).

But were they showing you thermal imaging or night-vision displays?
I suspect they were thermal imagers.They even make handheld,uncooled
thermal imagers now,for firemen to use inside burning buildings,to see
through smoke.(using microbolometer arrays)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

"Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message
news:v9Ume.168091$Cq2.160579@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

Its always the "high rate of speed" that irritates me no end.

"High speed of rate" actually seems correct.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add
2 more zeros and remove the obvious.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 1 Jun 2005 14:22:20 -0700, "Andy" <andysharpe@juno.com> wrote:

Andy replies:

I did the same search as Richard Henry. I did not find any
"reputable" source that even used the term. I thought perhaps
that I might have missed something over the several decades
that I was involved with this. It happens. But not this time.....

[snip]

Google on "heat seeking radar", spelling "seeking" correctly), and you
get 85 English hits.

But I guess those aren't "reputable" ?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Richard Henry]

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:htcs91tnfaa28cijh4tr5iat7sb67me25l@4ax.com...

On 1 Jun 2005 14:22:20 -0700, "Andy" <andysharpe@juno.com> wrote:

Andy replies:

I did the same search as Richard Henry. I did not find any
"reputable" source that even used the term. I thought perhaps
that I might have missed something over the several decades
that I was involved with this. It happens. But not this time.....

[snip]

Google on "heat seeking radar", spelling "seeking" correctly), and you
get 85 English hits.

But I guess those aren't "reputable" ?

The content ismore important than the count.

The first page I got are from a European press agency, the American Medical
Directors Association, a political flack-house, defense-update.com (which is
a false hit - the quote is "...various tupes of heat-seeking, radar guided
and command to line of sight guided missiles...", slate magazine, an
off-hand remark in an article titled "The Lack of Fiscal Management in
Existing Salmon Recovery Programs", soulfulliving.com, etc, etc, etc.

Either non-reputable, or not germane.

 

[keith]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:56:19 +0000, Jim Yanik wrote:

keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in
newsan.2005.06.01.01.51.45.855984@att.bizzzz:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 15:34:51 +0000, Jim Yanik wrote:

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in
news:f1vo91h9qf4qffjvqt8urvhhrlho9o6hoq@4ax.com:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:55:11 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 07:43:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:44:20 +0100, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

in yet another episode of this epic series ( now screened in the
UK too ) about America's most stupid examples of how to use a
Police car ..... Sheriff John Bunnell referred to the use of
helicopters with * heat seeking radar * !

Now, what are the cops keeping from the military here ?

Graham

There _is_ thermal-imaging radar.


There is?

John

Yep. What do you think is in a lot of our small air-to-air and
ground-to-air missiles?

Staring or scanning video cameras and signal processing.


And, night-vision goggles are thermal imaging.

...Jim Thompson

Uh,radar -transmits- a radio signal that is reflected and
received;the thermal imagers are just passive viewing of radiation
emitted BY an object;thus not a "radar".Otherwise,any video camera
would be a "radar". LIDAR is a laser-based "radar".

And night-vision goggles are NOT "thermal" imaging,they are LOW-LIGHT
amplifying.They use whatever light levels exists.They have responses
down into the IR region,though.Some are expressly filtered to only
respond to near-IR wavelengths.But still use reflected existing
light,not what's emitted as heat from the object.

Really? I remember the warm engines of the Iraqi tanks showing up in
the videos of Desert Storm. I thought they went well into the
body-heat threshold. Hell, even IR gates do that (and get stubborn
when it gets to 95F).


But were they showing you thermal imaging or night-vision displays?
I suspect they were thermal imagers.They even make handheld,uncooled
thermal imagers now,for firemen to use inside burning buildings,to see
through smoke.(using microbolometer arrays)

Perhaps we're getting into definitions now, but it was video from the
"nigh-vision" goggles (hmm) of the helicopter crews. In the latest
invastion the embedded news people had similar video.

--
Keith

 

[Pooh Bear]

keith wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:08:49 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:33:12 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 18:30:29 GMT, Mac <foo@bar.net> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 10:48:46 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]

Heat-seeking radar is _called radar_, but is not radar in the classic
sense of the name.

...Jim Thompson

OK, I think I get it. You are saying that the term "heat-seeking radar"
is in use, and is reasonably well-defined among those who use it, even if
it makes purists cringe.

Would that be a fair characterization of your position?

--Mac

Yep.

...Jim Thompson

The term "Heat-seeking radar" is rare, because it's wrong.

I'd suggest that it possibly would be called passive LIDAR, after the
(also wrong) passive SONAR, but RADAR? Where's the "ranging" part?

What's wrong about passive sonar ?

Towed passive sonar arrays are frequently used by yours and ours nuclear subs.

Graham

 

[Mac]

On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:33:12 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 18:30:29 GMT, Mac <foo@bar.net> wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 10:48:46 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]

Heat-seeking radar is _called radar_, but is not radar in the classic
sense of the name.

...Jim Thompson

OK, I think I get it. You are saying that the term "heat-seeking radar"
is in use, and is reasonably well-defined among those who use it, even if
it makes purists cringe.

Would that be a fair characterization of your position?

--Mac

Yep.

...Jim Thompson

In that case, I will try to do my cringing in private in the future. ;-)

--Mac

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:22:20 -0700, Andy wrote:

Andy replies:
I did the same search as Richard Henry. I did not find any
"reputable" source that even used the term. I thought perhaps that I
might have missed something over the several decades that I was involved
with this. It happens. But not this time.....

As a RADAR designer for many years for Texas Instruments
and Raytheon, I have more than a passing familiarity with the subject,
since most of my work was with the DOD. I also have extensive experience
with infrared imaging systems for tanks, jet aircraft, and sniper
rifles........

RADAR stands for Radio Distance And Ranging. It sends out

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. It's "Radio Detection and Ranging."
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aradar

energy and uses signal processing to determine both RANGE and DISTANCE. It

Now, you've completely gone and lost it:
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Arange
a couple of excerpts:
- in radar meteorology, the straight-line distance from the radar
k12.ocs.ou.edu/teachers/glossary/r.html
- Distance from the radar antenna. The WSR-88D radar has a range for
velocity products out to 124 nm and reflectivity products out to 248 nm.
www.srh.weather.gov/jetstream/append/glossary_r.htm

In other words, 'RANGE' _IS_ 'DISTANCE'.

Sorry, Andy, but you've blown this one.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:53:17 -0700, Andy wrote:

Andy replies:

You're absolutely correct , Rich. But it was not an "error",
rather a "flag".

I was interested in seeing whether anyone who "critiqued" my
post bothered to read it . Believe me, anyone who has any knowledge of
radar KNOWS what R A D A R stands for. If you re-read that
couple of lines, you will find glaring misstatements, that actually
have nothing to do with the point I was making. Not an accident
or a missprint....

Misprint? ;-D
....

Of course, I could be wrong. Have you, in your effort to critique
every detail in my post, located any manufacturer of "heat seeking
radar" ???? I'd really like to see something more useful here
than technical sniping. It's easy to prove me wrong --- just
show a website that has a description of heat seeking radar and
I'll have learned something....

Heck, we all may have learned something.....

Well, I did do a google on "heat-seeking radar", and a lot of people

use the term, but I did get an impression that it's used mainly as
marketing hype or to make some kind of point, by people who have
no idea what they're talking about. It _does_ sound like a logical
thing to your typical layman.

Like others have said, it gets used in the press release for some
new military airplane once or twice, but they're written by market
droids, so really doesn't mean anything.

Apologies if I came on a little too ham-fisted.

Now I'm on a crusade to inform people that ionization doesn't
necessarily automagically cause ozone!

Thanks!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:33:16 -0700, Andy wrote:

Andy replies :

RE: Missprint
Since I compose on the fly, I occasionally type a word
that belongs later on, and I may not catch it when I proof it.
.... and sometimes I don't proof it. So THAT'S what I mean
by missprint. " DISTANCE and RANGE" was not a missprint,
since I meant to state it that way, as I have said before.
It was amusing to me that out of a fairly large and comprehensive
post, someone took the time to reply to the post on an
insignificant word or two in the first couple of lines, that had
essentially NOTHING to do with the point of the post, .....which
was to disavow the accuracy of the term "heat seeking radar".....

Sigh. My pointing out of "Missprint" by responding "Misprint?" was
an attempt at an acknowledgement of your other replay explaining
to me that you did, in fact, intentionally obfuscate the issue to
filter out those who comment without sufficient technical background
to challenge your expertise effectively.

In other words, it was a joke in kind, which seems to have fallen
flat on its face.

Perhaps you are retired also.???

Well, I'm working on it ?:-}

If so, we should be able
to spend many happy hours swapping posts. :&gt)))

Oh, no problemomeemoomah on that item!

However, I am not good at spotting missplaced commas and
typos, so my critique will probably deal with other aspects
that you might present.... :&gt)))))

Hmmmm......

RE: Crusade

"Now I'm on a crusade to inform people that ionization doesn't
necessarily automagically cause ozone! "

Well, I am curious about this. Assuming that the ionization
occurs in the presence of oxygen, howcum you don't
get ozone every time ??????? (Perhaps a new thread
would be in order ) :&gt))

As a matter of fact, there's already a thread, but since, as Guy
Macon has so poignantly noted, people are posting about room ozone
vs. air ionizers in a thread whose subject is something so far
unrelated that I wouldn't be able to track it down, even though
I'm one of the trollers in it. I wouldn't be able to direct you
to it. Just keep nexting through threads - you're bound to land
on it eventually.

Cheers!
Rich
[Parse DIS!]

 

[doug dwyer]

Makes me cringe and im not too pure


In message <pan.2005.05.31.18.30.27.105601@bar.net>, Mac <foo@bar.net>
writes

OK, I think I get it. You are saying that the term "heat-seeking radar"
is in use, and is reasonably well-defined among those who use it, even
if it makes purists cringe.

Would that be a fair characterization of your position?

--Mac

--
dd