Grid Dip Meter

[Michael Black]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Ian Field wrote:

"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1512011406150.9753@darkstar.example.org...
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Ian Field wrote:



"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:yoSdnR6J8fwKZsHLnZ2dnUU7-IudnZ2d@supernews.com...
On 11/30/2015 08:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:05:02 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca
wrote:

It seemed like the Tunnel Diode got a lot of press in the sixties
in the hobby magazines, but much of it wsa novelty.

For good reason. Tunnel diodes flew in most of the early satellites
up to about 1990 because it was the only reliable microwave device
available at the time.

I can't remember anything where some other device couldn't be
used. I suppose when the Heathkit GDO came out, the Tunnel Diode
might have had better bandwidth, though I don't remember that GDO
has having great VHF and UHF coverage. But while neat things were
shown, that tunnel diode FM broadcast receiver was more unique
becuase of the low IF and pulse counting detector than that it
used a tunnel diode as a mixer/oscillator down to that low IF.

I believe you're referring to the HW-10 GDO:
http://tubularelectronics.com/Heath_Manual_Collection/Heath_Manuals_H-HM/HM-10a/



http://tubularelectronics.com/Heath_Manual_Collection/Heath_Manuals_H-HM/HM-10a/HM-10A.gif
No pulse counting detector but rather a simple half wave RF rectifier
followed by 3 stages of DC amplification. As I vaguely recall, I had
difficulties getting a clean dip because the tunnel diode was
probably oscillating on multiple frequencies at the same time.

I may have an HW-10 GDO somewhere in my junk pile. I dropped it from
about 60ft up during an antenna raising party. It landed in some
bushes and did not appear to be damaged, but failed to function
afterwards. I also have a few new TEK tunnel diodes.

There were uses for tunnel diodes that hobbyists generally didn't
see, and those at least took advantage of the device at the time,
but the time passed pretty fast before other things didn't do most
of what a tunnel diode could do.

Tektronix also used tunnel diodes in their oscilloscope trigger
circuitry: <http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Tunnel_diodes> I use one
testing scope rise time:
https://richardsears.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/tunnel-diode-pulser/
GE Tunnel Diode Manual (1961):
http://w140.com/Ge1961TunnelDiodeManual.pdf> Today,
Aeroflex/Cobham/Metelics currently sell tunnel diode detectors and
use them in their instruments:
http://ams.aeroflex.com/metelics/micro-metelics-prods-TD-MTD.cfm
http://ams.aeroflex.com/metelics/micro-metelics-prods-TD-MBD.cfm
Sorry, but tunnel diodes are not quite dead and obsolete.

So I think the Heathkit tunnel diode dipper was mostly for novelty
sake.

Nope. During the 1960's, the big draw for Heathkit was that kits
were much cheaper than labor intensive assembled products. Heathkit
had to do something to keep the price down on their products. Cheap
was the order of the day and tunnel diodes were CHEEEEEEP.




I've never used one, but I suspect that part of the reason that tunnel
diode dippers are inferior is that you can't run a high-Z tank without
tapping the TD way way down, so that you need an impractically large
split variable capacitor.

Nuvistors are really good for that, over a pretty wide frequency range.

There's a low voltage 8056 Nuvistor in my bits box waiting for a *VERY*
elusive round-tuit.
I'd forgotten about those. The only time I remember seeing them mentioned
(and this was after the fact) was one or two converters that used them, no
need to have a high voltage power supply.

Nuvistors came in just on the cusp of transistors taking off. So other
than tv set front ends, they didn't see a lot of use, people going after
transistors instead.

Mine came from an old Sealy TV that someone left in the bin room at the
flats.

It didn't suit the UK standard so I just pulled the back off to look for
interesting bits.

Apparently there was a time that most remote garage door openers had a
Nuvistor of some description.

I've never heard of that, but it's possible. There were those subminiature
tubes (the leads were generally laid out in parallel with each other, and
the leads were relatively low gauge wire) seen in hearing aids and some
portable radios. I think those came early enough that they had a longer
span, but they too were whiped out by transistors.

Michael

 

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 at 5:23:03 PM UTC-8, Michael Black wrote:

On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Ian Field wrote:

Apparently there was a time that most remote garage door openers had a
Nuvistor of some description.

I've never heard of that, but it's possible. There were those subminiature
tubes (the leads were generally laid out in parallel with each other, and
the leads were relatively low gauge wire) seen in hearing aids and some
portable radios.

I've heard those called 'pencil tubes'; the ones in hybrid walkie-talkies
(for the transmitter) didn't get replaced with semiconductors until mid-to-late
seventies.
Nuvistors were ceramic-metal base, metal envelope tubes, very rugged,
and much less microphonic than other vacuum tubes. There was a long
period when they were the best fast-slewing amplifiers around, and for
HV handling (like electrostatic deflection in CRTs) very hard to replace
with silicon.

 

[Michael Black]

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, whit3rd wrote:

On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 at 5:23:03 PM UTC-8, Michael Black wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Ian Field wrote:


Apparently there was a time that most remote garage door openers had a
Nuvistor of some description.

I've never heard of that, but it's possible. There were those subminiature
tubes (the leads were generally laid out in parallel with each other, and
the leads were relatively low gauge wire) seen in hearing aids and some
portable radios.

I've heard those called 'pencil tubes'; the ones in hybrid walkie-talkies
(for the transmitter) didn't get replaced with semiconductors until mid-to-late
seventies.

I dont' think anything much new got released after a certain point. But
those tubes did offer the chance to make equipment smaller, and certainly
in the early days of transistors, the tubes had better high frequency
response. I had one of those hybrid lunch box walkie talkies, never used
it, and if I recall properly the transmitter was all tube, the receiver
had a diode mixer (no rf stage ahead of it) and a tube oscillator and
multiplier chain, with the transistors in the IF strip and audio.

But by the end of the sixties, you could get Motorola handie talkies like
the HT-200, which were all solid state. Hearing aids must have made the
transition to transistors by then, and you could get portable radios that
used transistors.

Nuvistors were ceramic-metal base, metal envelope tubes, very rugged,
and much less microphonic than other vacuum tubes. There was a long
period when they were the best fast-slewing amplifiers around, and for
HV handling (like electrostatic deflection in CRTs) very hard to replace
with silicon.

But at the time, top end test equipment wasn't as well known to the
hobbyist. It was only later that I learned the Tek 454? (the mostly solid
state one, not the one from 1959 with the plugins) used nuvistors.

Michael

 

[Ian Field]

"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1512021325170.11559@darkstar.example.org...

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015, whit3rd wrote:

On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 at 5:23:03 PM UTC-8, Michael Black wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Ian Field wrote:


Apparently there was a time that most remote garage door openers had a
Nuvistor of some description.

I've never heard of that, but it's possible. There were those
subminiature
tubes (the leads were generally laid out in parallel with each other,
and
the leads were relatively low gauge wire) seen in hearing aids and some
portable radios.

I've heard those called 'pencil tubes'; the ones in hybrid walkie-talkies
(for the transmitter) didn't get replaced with semiconductors until
mid-to-late
seventies.
I dont' think anything much new got released after a certain point. But
those tubes did offer the chance to make equipment smaller, and certainly
in the early days of transistors, the tubes had better high frequency
response.

They didn't have any transistors in WW2 - but they needed a crude doppler
radar for proximity shells that could be fired out of an anti-aircraft gun.

AFAIK: they used what were basically ruggedised hearing aid valves potted in
wax to stop them bouncing about.

 

[M Philbrook]

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1512012024220.10269@darkstar.example.org>,
et472@ncf.ca says...

Nuvistors came in just on the cusp of transistors taking off. So other
than tv set front ends, they didn't see a lot of use, people going after
transistors instead.

Mine came from an old Sealy TV that someone left in the bin room at the
flats.

It didn't suit the UK standard so I just pulled the back off to look for
interesting bits.

Apparently there was a time that most remote garage door openers had a
Nuvistor of some description.

I've never heard of that, but it's possible. There were those subminiature
tubes (the leads were generally laid out in parallel with each other, and
the leads were relatively low gauge wire) seen in hearing aids and some
portable radios. I think those came early enough that they had a longer
span, but they too were whiped out by transistors.

Michael

Yup, I have a drawer full of unused/new

Jamie