GPS Question

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:39:25 -0600, john wrote:

In <pan.2004.10.25.20.11.37.798083@example.net>, on 10/25/04
at 08:06 PM, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> said:

As should those who covertly attach spying equipment to a respectable,
private individual's car...

Or any individual's car, in a country where the constitution is still in
force.


I am not aware of any country where the Constitution is still in force.
Can you enlighten us as to which ones you refer to?

Nah, it's just a hypothetical[0] question. But I can dream, can't I?

Thanks,
Rich

[0] Or should that be 'rhetorical'?

 

[Country Loon]

"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:417D1074.4030001@nospam.com...

Tom Seim wrote:
Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<ahcnn0ljrtc3nd0gh0o6vae902og97u7rh@4ax.com>...

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:07:45 -0500, "Dave VanHorn"
dvanhorn@cedar.net> wrote:


My gps unit had it's antenna mag-mounted to the top of the in-dash
radio.
worked fine.

Theft prevention is, of course, a jolly good thing. However, like all
these advances in technology, there's a potential for misuse. Any
malifactor can attach one of these devices to a car and use it to
track a person's movements. Terrorists, potential kidnappers, private
detectives, Big Brother, could be anyone for any reason. That's why
GPS jammers are becoming increasingly readily available. There are
several sites on the internet where schematics for them can also be
downloaded. Long live freedom!


Be aware that in the U.S., and many other countries, you will be
violating federal law by using these jammers. Worse, you could
interfere with aircraft navigational equipment. Thousands of U.S.
airports have GPS instrument approaches. The consequences of jamming
this equipment are horrific.

Right- right, clueless, moron. So now every terrorist in the world knows
had to bring the unprotected US ATC to its knees- thnx to Bush. You are
nothing but a grade A idiot.

Ok but can somebody please explain why the Iraqis did not jam the GPS for

the cruise missiles? Or is it that they have a back up system ie a terrain
following guidance system.Or is the GPS the back-up?

Tom

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Tom Seim wrote:

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<417D1074.4030001@nospam.com>...

Tom Seim wrote:

Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ahcnn0ljrtc3nd0gh0o6vae902og97u7rh@4ax.com>...


On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:07:45 -0500, "Dave VanHorn"
dvanhorn@cedar.net> wrote:



My gps unit had it's antenna mag-mounted to the top of the in-dash radio.
worked fine.

Theft prevention is, of course, a jolly good thing. However, like all
these advances in technology, there's a potential for misuse. Any
malifactor can attach one of these devices to a car and use it to
track a person's movements. Terrorists, potential kidnappers, private
detectives, Big Brother, could be anyone for any reason. That's why
GPS jammers are becoming increasingly readily available. There are
several sites on the internet where schematics for them can also be
downloaded. Long live freedom!


Be aware that in the U.S., and many other countries, you will be
violating federal law by using these jammers. Worse, you could
interfere with aircraft navigational equipment. Thousands of U.S.
airports have GPS instrument approaches. The consequences of jamming
this equipment are horrific.

Right- right, clueless, moron. So now every terrorist in the world knows
had to bring the unprotected US ATC to its knees- thnx to Bush. You are
nothing but a grade A idiot.


I will let others decide who is the CLUELESS, MORONIC, IDIOTIC between
the two of us, fredfraud.

Right- well hold an election, retard boy. So far all anyone sees from
you is a bunch of trivial sorry-assed excuses for OnT posts- not very
convincing or impressive stuff.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Tom Seim wrote:

hamilton <hamilton@deminsional.com> wrote in message
news:<417d23a7$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>...

Fred Bloggs wrote:


Right- right, clueless, moron. So now every terrorist in the
world knows had to bring the unprotected US ATC to its knees-
thnx to Bush. You are nothing but a grade A idiot.



Fred, Fred, chill out man, have a homebrew.

Every terrorist are not the idiots you believe them to be. They are
engineers as well. They can do the math themselves. Our discussion
here will do very little in helping the next terrorist attack.

Good Russian technology will help them more then we ever will.


Ah, a breath of reason amongst a ward of lunatics. It is like
smelling a bouquet of roses after walking thru a rendering factory.

You just stated that GPS jammers were illegal because of the risk of
disruption:"Be aware that in the U.S., and many other countries, you
will be violating federal law by using these jammers. Worse, you could
interfere with aircraft navigational equipment. Thousands of U.S.
airports have GPS instrument approaches. The consequences of jamming
this equipment are horrific."
Then you make some idiotic remark about roses and a rendering plant.
Anyone who has been through a rendering plant will be smelling you for
the next week- roses or no roses, flower boy.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:25:46 -0700, Tom Seim wrote:

I will let others decide who is the CLUELESS, MORONIC, IDIOTIC between
the two of us, fredfraud.

You both are, Tom Ass. But Bloogs is less worse because he's less nazi.
Still way fucking stupid, however.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:29:40 +0000, Fred Bloggs wrote:

Right- well hold an election, retard boy. So far all anyone sees from
you is a bunch of trivial sorry-assed excuses for OnT posts- not very
convincing or impressive stuff.

And you're no better than he is, unless you're secretly acknowledging
that you love the mud, and are just exercising his Will To Live or
some arcane shit.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:57:45 +1300, "Country Loon"
<fitlikemin@mearns.fairmers.co.uk> wrote:

Ok but can somebody please explain why the Iraqis did not jam the GPS for
the cruise missiles? Or is it that they have a back up system ie a terrain
following guidance system.Or is the GPS the back-up?

There's more than one GPS frequency. The commercially available
jammers only wipe out the domestic GPS systems. The military stuff is
about 400Mhz away from that. Of course that wouldn't stop someone who
knew what they were doing from making a military band jammer, but
you're unlikely to see one of those on open sale!
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[Paul Burridge]

On 26 Oct 2004 13:24:37 GMT, Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

What the hell is "coding gain"?

Go and look up "spread spectrum" in your encyclopedia.

I know what spread rectum is. That wasn't the question. I repeat:
what's "coding gain"?

However, it's very likely an installation will end up with spurs emitted
exceeding this signal strength.

"Spurs" as in field lobes or as in short for spurious?

Even if it's only 200m that you're screwing up others navigation systems
to, that is still unacceptable.

Anyone who doesn't know where they're going shouldn't be on the road!

--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[Ian Stirling]

Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:

On 26 Oct 2004 13:24:37 GMT, Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk
wrote:

What the hell is "coding gain"?

Go and look up "spread spectrum" in your encyclopedia.

I know what spread rectum is. That wasn't the question. I repeat:
what's "coding gain"?

Go and look up "spread spectrum", then look down until you find what coding
gain is.
If you don't know what coding gain is, you haven't understood spread spectrum.

 

[Roger Hamlett]

"Country Loon" <fitlikemin@mearns.fairmers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1098575449.411801@ftpsrv1...

There are GPS systems in cars available where you can check its location
if
stolen.
I have a GPS unit and find it difficult to get a fix in my house.I have
to
hold it outside for a while and quite high to get any form of signal
lock.
So how therefore can a hidden GPS receiver get any signal? After all,
hiding
it under the dash will just screen the signal.

Tom
Generally, the 'dash', won't screen the signal. Most modern cars, use

plastics here, and this is 'clear' to the frequencies concerned. However
there are problems, with cars having heated front screens. There are some
very 'covert' GPS repeater antennae, which have a combined GPS antenna,
and mobile phone antenna, in one casing, and 'repeat' the GPS signal
inside the car.

Best Wishes

 

[Clarence]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2004.10.25.20.14.14.715966@example.net...

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:17:55 +0000, Clarence wrote:


"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:417d036e$0$80659$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:
On 24 Oct 2004 13:53:35 -0700, soar2morrow@yahoo.com (Tom Seim) wrote:

Be aware that in the U.S., and many other countries, you will be
violating federal law by using these jammers. Worse, you could
interfere with aircraft navigational equipment. Thousands of U.S.
airports have GPS instrument approaches. The consequences of jamming
this equipment are horrific.

Yessiree! I've just seen a bunch of them for sale in Exchange & Mart
(a UK publication) for 299 quid a piece. They're stated as 10mW output
@ approx. 1.5Ghz and not licensable in the UK. This is the type of
device which would be *ideal* to 'install-and-forget' in your own car
to thwart the snoopers. 10mW is just about enough to create a cloud of
RF 'noise' around your car and prevent any GPS-based device attached
to it from being able to sense and report your position. At the same
time, the power level is sufficiently low enough not to cause any
undue interference beyond a few tens of yards from the vehicle
(depending on antenna efficiency, mounting position and so forth).

Anyone using one of these should be prosecuted to the fullest possible
extent of the law.

GPS transmitters are about 50W for a whole hemisphere.
The civilian transmission ones have a coding gain of 1024, so that's
an equivalent power of 50Kw.
Now, the area of a circle with radius 6000Km is about 3*10^13m^2.
Or an equivalent power density of 8nW/m^2 (unless I've blown off
some units).
Now, 10mW/8nW = 1.2 million square meters, or a hemisphere about a
kilometer in radius.

So it is even more effective than expected?

Yeah, Clarence. Set a GPS jammer on top of your car so the fanatical
liberal nazi democrats can't track you down and use their mind rays
to zombize you into voting for Kerry. And stay close to your local
FBI office with your jammer, so they can protect you from the liberal
menace.

Good Luck!
Rich

Thanks for the suggestion, I shall consider it for what it's worth!

 

[Ian Stirling]

Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:

On 25 Oct 2004 13:45:20 GMT, Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk
wrote:

Anyone using one of these should be prosecuted to the fullest possible
extent of the law.

As should those who covertly attach spying equipment to a respectable,
private individual's car...

GPS transmitters are about 50W for a whole hemisphere.
The civilian transmission ones have a coding gain of 1024, so that's
an equivalent power of 50Kw.

What the hell is "coding gain"?

Go and look up "spread spectrum" in your encyclopedia.

Now, the area of a circle with radius 6000Km is about 3*10^13m^2.
Or an equivalent power density of 8nW/m^2 (unless I've blown off
some units).
Now, 10mW/8nW = 1.2 million square meters, or a hemisphere about a
kilometer in radius.

Nonsense. Your power density calculation may or may not be correct,
but unless you know the efficiency of the installation to the vehicle,
you can't rely on that calculated figure. It's likely to be *much*
lower. This is 1.5Ghz, remember, so placement is critical to the
radiated field. You're hardly likely to want or need the thing mounted
on the vehicle's roof, afterall.

However, it's very likely an installation will end up with spurs emitted
exceeding this signal strength.

Even if it's only 200m that you're screwing up others navigation systems
to, that is still unacceptable.

 

[dd]

In message <41830412.5020001@nospam.com>, Fred Bloggs
<nospam@nospam.com> writes

Well- you just told them that they could cause major disruption by
disrupting GPS. It's not like GPS communications is a secret. You have
confirmed a vulnerability with your reckless verbiage- a vulnerability
neglected by the Bush administration.
A head in sand posture is not pretty.

--
dd