Godamned 0603...

[server]

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 18:39:24 +0100, olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

#10 wire is 0.1\" diameter and 1 milliohm per foot. #20 is 10
mohms/foot. #30, 100 mohms. Easy to remember.

Only if you have a feeling what a \"foot\" is.

Olaf

I have two!



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[Robert Latest]

David Brown wrote:

It is not just important that you use a precise scale - some imperial
scales are as precise as metric. (An inch is formally defined as 25.4
mm.)

Which is sad. They should\'ve made it 2.56mm, then all those power-of-two
fractions would divide beautifully into mm.

 

[server]

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 18:07:48 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-02-19 17:45, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
[...]

measure inches as accurately as you can measure centimeters.

Does anybody use centimeters? Seems like an orphan unit.

[...]

We don\'t think of centimeters as a unit. The unit is the
meter. Centi is just a prefix meaning 1/100th. Engineers
tend to use mostly prefixes that are powers of 1000.

There are some weird exceptions. You\'ll see hPa because it
happens to be close to 1mbar. You\'ll see daN because it
happens to be near the downward force of a 1kg mass.

Jeroen Belleman

The metric scales on most rulers here are in cm. I always convert to
mm.

What do you use for tire pressure? We use PSI, ballpark 30.

The old english units are physically handy. Most common things work
out to be 1 or 2-digit integers, probably because worker-guys have
used them for centuries.

I ordered some cognac in Paris and the bartender asked me how many
milliliters I wanted. I had no clue so I said \"medium\" and he grunted
and poured.

In the US, whiskey is measured in \"jiggers.\" A sensible bartender
holds the jigger over the glass, pours until it\'s full, lets it
overflow for a while, then dumps it in. Good for tips.





--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 21.11.52 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 18:07:48 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jer...@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-02-19 17:45, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
[...]

measure inches as accurately as you can measure centimeters.

Does anybody use centimeters? Seems like an orphan unit.

[...]

We don\'t think of centimeters as a unit. The unit is the
meter. Centi is just a prefix meaning 1/100th. Engineers
tend to use mostly prefixes that are powers of 1000.

There are some weird exceptions. You\'ll see hPa because it
happens to be close to 1mbar. You\'ll see daN because it
happens to be near the downward force of a 1kg mass.

Jeroen Belleman
The metric scales on most rulers here are in cm. I always convert to
mm.

What do you use for tire pressure? We use PSI, ballpark 30.

The old english units are physically handy. Most common things work
out to be 1 or 2-digit integers, probably because worker-guys have
used them for centuries.

I ordered some cognac in Paris and the bartender asked me how many
milliliters I wanted. I had no clue so I said \"medium\" and he grunted
and poured.

30ml or more common 3cl, for something like cognac about the same
amount of alcohol as a beer or a glass of wine

In the US, whiskey is measured in \"jiggers.\" A sensible bartender
holds the jigger over the glass, pours until it\'s full, lets it
overflow for a while, then dumps it in. Good for tips.

jiggers are everywhere for making drinks, it\'s what\'s in recipes

the more \"commercial\" bars/clubs/pubs around here use electronics ones.
They are mounted on the bottles with a tamper seal, to pour you stick on
a gadget connect to the register that triggers it, out comes an exact amount

https://scan-drink.dk/41-medium_default/kodeprop-nr-1.jpg
https://scan-drink.dk/86-medium_default/dc-707-spiritusanlaeg.jpg

so at the end of the night the owner knows exactly how much what have been
poured, and how much money should be in the register, so no cheating

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

olaf wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

Surprisingly, some big aerospace companies still use pounds and slugs
and BTUs and things. Creeps me out.

Yes, it must be a strange live there. We have in our measurement
devices a huge list to calculate the units for US customers. When you
read this it is very strange that they claim to reach the moon. :-D

Newton proved his gravity equation by calculating the motion of the moon
in inches, so we can too.

But I and practically everyone with any technical inclination uses
metric in all cases except when an object is involved which was cut in
English units by someone else.


--
Defund the Thought Police

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:39:22 PM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

olaf wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

Surprisingly, some big aerospace companies still use pounds and slugs
and BTUs and things. Creeps me out.

Yes, it must be a strange live there. We have in our measurement
devices a huge list to calculate the units for US customers. When you
read this it is very strange that they claim to reach the moon. :-D
Newton proved his gravity equation by calculating the motion of the moon
in inches, so we can too.

But I and practically everyone with any technical inclination uses
metric in all cases except when an object is involved which was cut in
English units by someone else.

Yeah, we don\'t want no one telling us what units to measure in or to wear masks to keep from dying of a pandemic. Both have worked well for everyone in this country... except for 959,000.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

fredag den 18. februar 2022 kl. 09.32.02 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:

I\'ve got a board made that includes pads for some 0603 smds.

How was I expected to know that 0603 is used for both imperial and
metric sizes? No wonder there\'s no way I can put my imperial 0603
components onto the metric 0603 landing pads.

0603 appears to be the only size where this trap arises, and I fell
right into it.

also 0402 metric which is 01005 imperial

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2022-02-18 11:11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

fredag den 18. februar 2022 kl. 09.32.02 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:
I\'ve got a board made that includes pads for some 0603 smds.

How was I expected to know that 0603 is used for both imperial and
metric sizes? No wonder there\'s no way I can put my imperial 0603
components onto the metric 0603 landing pads.

0603 appears to be the only size where this trap arises, and I fell
right into it.

also 0402 metric which is 01005 imperial

Designed to confuse. Why do people do that?

Jeroen Belleman

 

[olaf]

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

>Designed to confuse. Why do people do that?

Marketing! There is a special caliber to check that
and you should by it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtjwHiStjPQ

(at 24:00)

Olaf

 

[server]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:lv701hhvq2t75d9dkh16budkb2b8ljiedd@4ax.com:

In the US, machinists usually say thou and engineers most often say
mils, both meaning 0.001 inches.

Nope, machinists say \"10 mils\" or \"10 thousandths\" interchangeably,
and when they are doing metric, they say the full mm number and
divisor, as in 4 tenths of a millimeter, or 4 hundredths of a
millimeter, because length representations in metric are usually based
against the full meter or centimeters and we do not use deci or Deci
very often here. In weights they (we) say tenths or hundredths of a
gram, and then \'milligrams\' for thousandths of a gram.

We rarely use prefixes like deca or Deca, or deci and Deci, but do
use centi. For liquid it would be against the liter for the base.

Some of us, however know many of the prefixes and stating a measure
using it is correct, but sometimes gets questioned to convey clarity.
All it takes is experience, just like muscle memory for physical things
like tossing a swish in in basketball.

 

[server]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:b7e01hpa2jnjni5qtt8dvqu8urqliqm2af@4ax.com:

Most DEC computers were octal, even the 16-bit PDP-11. I can still
assemble some octal instructions from memory.

We had a DEC Writer at one company I was at, and they had a Burroughs
mainframe too. We could not find a guy who could rewrite the mainframe
applications in a language and app we could then use on a PC. This was
back in the days of the XT and first 286 boxes. That was for the
accounting and inventory system.

In the lab we used AutoCAD rev like 2.1 or such to do 4X PCB layouts,
and plot them with a big HP pen plotter along with 4X tapes and rings,
etc. Those were the days... circa \'85 -\'86.
I was even pumping numbers into a very early Lotus 123 app on a
monochrome XT and printing out dot matrix printed graphs.

That job triggered my desire to get into personal computers. And it
has been all downhill since.

 

[server]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:b7e01hpa2jnjni5qtt8dvqu8urqliqm2af@4ax.com:

What\'s amazing is that the 6th finger actually works, has veins and
nerves and muscles and tendons and stuff.

Some pianists joke that playing some of the works of Rachmaninoff
requires 6 fingered hands.

It was a testament to how difficult to play some of his stuff was.

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:39:22 PM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
olaf wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

Surprisingly, some big aerospace companies still use pounds and
slugs and BTUs and things. Creeps me out.

Yes, it must be a strange live there. We have in our measurement
devices a huge list to calculate the units for US customers. When
you read this it is very strange that they claim to reach the moon.
:-D
Newton proved his gravity equation by calculating the motion of the
moon in inches, so we can too.

But I and practically everyone with any technical inclination uses
metric in all cases except when an object is involved which was cut
in English units by someone else.

Yeah, we don\'t want no one telling us what units to measure in or to
wear masks to keep from dying of a pandemic. Both have worked well
for everyone in this country... except for 959,000.

I recall saying 2 years ago that everyone could keep going to work if
they wore masks, and I recall you saying it would not be adequate.


--
Defund the Thought Police

 

[server]

olaf <olaf@criseis.ruhr.de> wrote in
news:8db6ei-auc.ln1@criseis.ruhr.de:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

Surprisingly, some big aerospace companies still use pounds and
slugs and BTUs and things. Creeps me out.

Yes, it must be a strange live there. We have in our measurement
devices a huge list to calculate the units for US customers. When
you read this it is very strange that they claim to reach the
moon. :-D

Oh boy... another fucking retarded flat earther who thinks that we
did not go to the Moon.

BTUs come from BRITAIN, you dopey putz. And \"a slug\" was also a
BRITISH unit. Could have been the poundal.

You been at the Pub drinking PINTS or something?

Oh..and it is one of the reason why american cars are not so
popular in Germany.

US cars are metric, dipshit. Especially their Euro offerings.

People wonder how to repair them with strange
threads and unusual tools.

Idiots, perhaps. I\'ll bet that REAL repair shops over there know
exactly what to use and where.

Whenever I read about AWG, 0.5oz copper or number drill sizes I
have to shake my head.

Olaf

You ain\'t real bright then. Derivations are easy. Any sixth
grader can learn and use conversions for any units of measure.

I have drill indexes with all the \'races\' represented. And if you
have trouble with a PCB cladding moniker you shoud probably not
attempt PCB layouts.

 

[server]

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:aa59638f-4edb-4430-830d-da377476f9c9n@googlegroups.com:

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 6:17:25 AM UTC-5, David Brown
wrote:
On 18/02/2022 23:36, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 1:51:04 PM UTC-5, whit3rd
wrote:
On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:45:50 AM UTC-8,
You mean why do people use the measuring system that everyone
else in their country use? I guess this is a more pointed
question at the US community. I remember working with a
mechanical engineer at a military contractor and was
surprised they still did everything using inches. 90% of
electronic components are in mm as the primary unit. I guess
I expect the mechanical community would have converted by
now, but, no.
Pre-NATO, all US military machinery would have been inches;
even now, NATO has standard 7.62 mm ammo, which is just a
soft-conversion from .30 caliber...

I would hope you\'d understand the difference in changing
nomenclature

and changing measurement systems. Caliber is not an actual
measurement of anything, rather a nominal use. Same as 12 inch
wafers or a 19 inch rack cabinet. I guess something on a 19
inch rack cabinet is actually 19 inches, but in reality, it\'s
just a name we use.

I think a key point on units is whether you need to convert them
or not,

and how they are compared to different measurements. If you need
to convert things into real lengths, weights, or whatever, then
metric is the only sane choice. But often you don\'t need
conversions.

It doesn\'t matter if a .44 calibre bullet is 0.44 inches wide or
long, 0.44 kg in weight, or whatever - it\'s just a name, and as
long as you match up the name used on the gun and the ammo,
you\'re fine.

It doesn\'t matter what width a 19\" rack is - it just matters that
everyone follows the same standard size. You don\'t measure the
height of the rack in centimetres - you measure it in \"units\"
because everything that goes in the rack is an integer number of
\"units\" in height. If you want to know if your new 4 unit server
will fit in your rack, you count the number of units of space you
have left - conversion

to millimetres or measuring with an inchtape would be silly.

On the other side, the size of your pcb tracks and footprints, or
screw

threads, or mechanical drawings, all need to be as accurate as
practically possible, and all need to be specified in a precise
scale -

metric.

That is an error. There is nothing more precise about metric than
imperial units. It\'s just a matter of convenience. For some
metric is more convenient because it\'s what they are used to, but
also the advantages of a decimal based system with few conversion
factors. For others imperial is what they are used to and need to
learn the conversion factors... many conversion factors... many,
many conversion factors. But both are equally precise.

Yep... 60 degree threads are 60 degree threads. Same in both
instances.

Maybe he has a 60 degree fever.

 

[David Brown]

On 19/02/2022 15:53, Rick C wrote:

BTW, you need to understand precision.

I do understand the term - and I do appreciate that it is obviously
independent of the scale. But I have been making a bit of a dog\'s
breakfast in what I wrote, so I\'ll stop there.

 

[David Brown]

On 19/02/2022 21:01, Robert Latest wrote:

David Brown wrote:
It is not just important that you use a precise scale - some imperial
scales are as precise as metric. (An inch is formally defined as 25.4
mm.)

Which is sad. They should\'ve made it 2.56mm, then all those power-of-two
fractions would divide beautifully into mm.

Yes. But it had to match up with the length of three barley corns.
(The barleycorn is of course still used in shoe sizes.)

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 6:18:26 AM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Rick C wrote:
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 8:39:22 PM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
olaf wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

Surprisingly, some big aerospace companies still use pounds and
slugs and BTUs and things. Creeps me out.

Yes, it must be a strange live there. We have in our measurement
devices a huge list to calculate the units for US customers. When
you read this it is very strange that they claim to reach the moon.
:-D
Newton proved his gravity equation by calculating the motion of the
moon in inches, so we can too.

But I and practically everyone with any technical inclination uses
metric in all cases except when an object is involved which was cut
in English units by someone else.

Yeah, we don\'t want no one telling us what units to measure in or to
wear masks to keep from dying of a pandemic. Both have worked well
for everyone in this country... except for 959,000.
I recall saying 2 years ago that everyone could keep going to work if
they wore masks, and I recall you saying it would not be adequate.

And it has not been adequate. What is your point? You did see the sarcasm in my statement, no?

The mistake I made was thinking there was ever a prayer of hope that people would actually do what was needed or that we could \"get \'er done\" around the world. As it turns out not only are masks not sufficient, vaccines are not sufficient. With new strains showing up every few months, we can expect this pandemic to be with us for a long time. It may turn out that there is selective pressure to be less virulent, in which case it may end up being no worse than the flu. At the moment the US is approaching 1 million dead which is far, far worse than any flu since I was born.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 8:26:38 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:

On 19/02/2022 21:01, Robert Latest wrote:
David Brown wrote:
It is not just important that you use a precise scale - some imperial
scales are as precise as metric. (An inch is formally defined as 25.4
mm.)

Which is sad. They should\'ve made it 2.56mm, then all those power-of-two
fractions would divide beautifully into mm.

Yes. But it had to match up with the length of three barley corns.
(The barleycorn is of course still used in shoe sizes.)

Barleycorns aside, it was more about matching the inch. The definition of the inch has a long and tortuous history, but in 1866 the US defined it as 39.37 to a meter, just off from 2.54 cm by about two ppm. Not many uses were impacted by two ppm, so 2.54 cm to the inch was later adopted largely because it had become commercial practice.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Clive Arthur]

On 19/02/2022 17:07, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

<snip>

There are some weird exceptions. You\'ll see hPa because it
happens to be close to 1mbar.

It\'s exactly that, by definition.

We use hectares too. Also, hectogrammes (\'hetti\') are used as
convenient measures for some foodstuffs in Italy at least.

[IMO the \'Are\' should have been one square metre (and the \'Vol\' one
cubic meter), but hey ho.]

Still base 60 is handy, and there are 60 ohm-farads in a minute.

--
Cheers
Clive