Getting started with FPGA

[rupertlssmith@googlemail.]

What about books? Can anyone recommend a good book to get started
with? I like books that are not too dry and start simple then build up
the complexity of the subject in a hands on tutorial way. There are
lots of books on Amazon, but not many of them have reviews, which
makes it hard to choose. I guess the readership of these books is not
so huge that lots of reviews get written.

 

[Michael Kellett]

<rupertlssmith@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:2557f9e5-e8ed-451a-b716-1e7954f56f39@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 18, 2:56 pm, Gabor <ga...@alacron.com> wrote:

However if you are going
to get started without hardware and using a simulator as your primary
design entry platform, you need to understand the difference between
sythesizable and non-synthesizable code, or you will have a big
shock the first time you decide to try your design out in hardware.

Ok, thanks for pointing that out. I guess that's why its important to
have a hands on approach.

These books seems to get a lot of god reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/FPGA-Prototyping-VHDL-Examples-Spartan-3/dp/0470185317/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282133861&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/FPGA-Prototyping-Verilog-Examples-Spartan-3/dp/0470185325/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282133861&sr=8-8

As for development boards, if you don't need too much I/O to
start with you might look at the XP2 Brevia kit from Lattice.

Only $29!

My experience with Lattice and their tools has been good. They now bundle
the Aldec simulator which I must like since I have the paid for version
(many $k).
The Brevia kit looks very good value to start but the JTAG adaptor needs
your PC to have a real parallel port. I've always used Windows for FPGA
development so I can't comment on how well Lattice tools will work with
Linux.

Michael Kellett

 

[Gabor]

On Aug 18, 8:07 am, "rupertlssm...@googlemail.com"
<rupertlssm...@googlemail.com> wrote:

What about books? Can anyone recommend a good book to get started
with? I like books that are not too dry and start simple then build up
the complexity of the subject in a hands on tutorial way. There are
lots of books on Amazon, but not many of them have reviews, which
makes it hard to choose. I guess the readership of these books is not
so huge that lots of reviews get written.

I wish I could. I have found that there are books on Verilog and VHDL
that don't clearly delineate what can be synthesized and what can't.
Having started from a hardware background in the pencil and paper
design days and starting with programmable devices using PALASM,
I already had an idea about hardware design methodology and just
bought the books for language reference. However if you are going
to get started without hardware and using a simulator as your primary
design entry platform, you need to understand the difference between
sythesizable and non-synthesizable code, or you will have a big
shock the first time you decide to try your design out in hardware.

As for development boards, if you don't need too much I/O to
start with you might look at the XP2 Brevia kit from Lattice.
You can download the free ispLever starter software from Lattice
and a branded version of Aldec's simulation environment. I
think more people are used to Modelsim for simulation, though.

Regards,
Gabor

 

[rupertlssmith@googlemail.]

On Aug 18, 2:56 pm, Gabor <ga...@alacron.com> wrote:

However if you are going
to get started without hardware and using a simulator as your primary
design entry platform, you need to understand the difference between
sythesizable and non-synthesizable code, or you will have a big
shock the first time you decide to try your design out in hardware.

Ok, thanks for pointing that out. I guess that's why its important to
have a hands on approach.

These books seems to get a lot of god reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/FPGA-Prototyping-VHDL-Examples-Spartan-3/dp/0470185317/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282133861&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/FPGA-Prototyping-Verilog-Examples-Spartan-3/dp/0470185325/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282133861&sr=8-8

As for development boards, if you don't need too much I/O to
start with you might look at the XP2 Brevia kit from Lattice.

Only $29!

 

[Anssi Saari]

Dinçay Akçören <dincay@gmail.com> writes:

terasIC's MAX boards have CPLD, not FPGA.

Good point. In fact, there seems to be a shortage of Cyclone III
boards in the market, at least cheap ones with some devices on board.
Terasic's DE0 seems to be the only one? Then there is Arrow's Bemicro
which is certainly cheap (at least in the US), but all it has are a
few LEDs. Good thing is that there's an 80-pin edge connector on the
board, but again very little to plug into it.

 

[Tim Wescott]

On 08/18/2010 01:38 AM, rupertlssmith@googlemail.com wrote:

On Aug 17, 8:43 pm, Jonathan Bromley<s...@oxfordbromley.plus.com
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:07:45 -0700 (PDT),

rupertlssm...@googlemail.com wrote:
I'm interested in learning more about FPGAs

Wow. I think this thread reminds me why it's still
kinda nice to hang out on comp.arch.fpga (and
comp.lang.vhdl, .verilog).

You get three seriously expert people, with distinctly
different viewpoints and distinctly different positions,
each giving a clearly expressed and nuanced take on
a bunch of issues (X vs A, Verilog vs VHDL) that
could so easily degenerate into a schoolyard scrap.

And the OP gets spot-on advice too.

Hard to beat. Thanks to all the contributors for
their time and their generously shared expertise.
--
Jonathan Bromley

Yes, some excellent advice, thanks very much.

I hadn't really appreciated that I can download Xilinx ISE or Altera
Quartus web editions for free and that both run on Linux. Also that I
can run simulations of designs without having a chip to program them
onto, so it looks like I can at least have a play around with the
basics at no cost at all.

Is a development environment like Xilinx ISE or Altera Quartus
necessary? or are there standalone Verilog or VHDL compilers available
that can be used?

As mentioned, the ISE environment is a shell for the command-line tools.
One thing I like about it is that with a bit of digging you can find
the command line used to invoke the tool, which means that you can use
ISE to help you write your makefile when you get serious about
production code.

The term 'compiler' means something different in HDL than in a
programming language. With HDL you either simulate or synthesize. They
are different and essential steps.

Simulation is just that -- there's a tool that runs the HDL or that
compiles it to a runnable program, that simulates the design on your
workstation. Simulation isn't just a cool geeky thing -- it's an
essential step to making sure your design is working.

There are open-source simulators out there, but the FPGA companies are
pretty tight with their synthesis algorithms (and even the mapping
between the bit files and the FPGA functions), so you won't find any
open-source synthesizers.

Synthesis takes the HDL that it can understand and do something with --
and that isn't all of the HDL -- and makes a design that will do what
the HDL specifies. It usually needs an additional "constraint file"
that lets it know about timing constraints, what signal goes to what
pin, etc. In software build terms the constraint file is sorta kinda
maybe a linker script, only different. Synthesis takes a _long_ time,
and the result is a file that goes onto the FPGA where many informative
signals are obscured -- hence the usefulness of the simulation step.

I'm a bit unclear as to the process of going from
the source code to writing the design onto the chip. The development
boards generally have an FPGA chip that is removable, and one removes
it and inserts it into a 'programmer' to burn in the design? or is the
FPGA chip fixed onto the dev board and gets programmed in place?

The FPGA is soldered down to the board. During early development you
fire things up and write bit files directly to the chip (at least in the
Xilinx workflow) with a JTAG programmer. FPGA chips (at least those
that don't have on-board PROM) are capable of loading configurations
from EEPROM, and most development boards will have a suitable EEPROM
that you can load your bit file onto so the board will come up by itself.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

rupertlssmith@googlemail.com <rupertlssmith@googlemail.com> wrote:

What about books? Can anyone recommend a good book to get started
with? I like books that are not too dry and start simple then build up
the complexity of the subject in a hands on tutorial way. There are
lots of books on Amazon, but not many of them have reviews, which
makes it hard to choose. I guess the readership of these books is not
so huge that lots of reviews get written.

In learning to use FPGAs, you need to learn both logic design
and (usually) either verilog or VHDL. They are often described
in different books, but you need both.

If you already know logic design (maybe from the 74xx TTL days)
then you need a good book on either verilog or VHDL.

Unfortunately I don't know any logic design books to recommend,
but maybe others do.

-- glen

 

[John Adair]

You don't need to spend a lot of money to start with. Take your choice
of 4 FPGA vendors on our Polmaddie series
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/polmaddie/polmaddie_family.html which are
supported by either free or low cost tools from the relevant vendor.
You can do some practical playing before you move on to something more
advanced.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On 17 Aug, 18:07, "rupertlssm...@googlemail.com"
<rupertlssm...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I'm interested in learning more about FPGAs in a hands on way. Can
anyone recommend an inexpensive set of tools to get started with? My
wishlist is: I'd like to develop on Linux, I'd like to spend no more
than a few hundred $ on a starter kit, I'd like to learn using the
tools and up-to-date skills that are relevant to the more high end set
ups available. Which is better to start with, Xilinx or Altera or
something else? Is there a choice between Verilog and VHDL to be made,
or can both be tried out just as easily?

At the moment I am not too bothered about specific applications, just
if I can get some hands on experience, whatever i/o ports are
available on whatever board I use, I will think of some little project
to try out using them.

Thanks for your recommendations.

Rupert

 

[Symon]

On 8/17/2010 8:43 PM, Jonathan Bromley wrote:

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:07:45 -0700 (PDT),
rupertlssmith@googlemail.com wrote:

I'm interested in learning more about FPGAs

Wow. I think this thread reminds me why it's still
kinda nice to hang out on comp.arch.fpga (and
comp.lang.vhdl, .verilog).

For every nice reply, it's important to have a dissenting one. The OP

post's IP (NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.15.253.202) resolves to something
called IBM regus UK. Whatever that is. Seems to be some kind of
training. I would suggest that 'Rupert' could be best served by asking
his trainers the answer to his query. Especially if the prices listed
match the course 'Rupert' is on. Anyway, IBM regus has gotta be better
than Doulos, right?

Cheers, Syms.

 

[Andrew Feldhaus]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:54:45 +0100, Michael Kellett wrote:

rupertlssmith@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:2557f9e5-e8ed-451a-
b716-1e7954f56f39@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
These books seems to get a lot of good reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/FPGA-Prototyping-VHDL-Examples-Spartan-3/
dp/0470185317/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282133861&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/FPGA-Prototyping-Verilog-Examples-Spartan-3/
dp/0470185325/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282133861&sr=8-8

I have a copy of Pong Chu's "FPGA Prototyping by VHDL Examples -
(Spartan-3 version)" mentioned above (ISBN: 987-0-470-18531-5) and it
seems to be a pretty thorough starting point for a newcomer with
synthesis aspirations. It's perhaps a little narrow, and focusses on
Xilinx examples but it's probably what I'd have started with if I'd
spotted it at the time.

I started out with the well-known "VHDL Programming by Example" (ISBN:
978-0-07-049944-7) by Douglas Perry which is a more thorough explanation
of VHDL (i.e. not limited to the subset of VHDL that may be synthesised
as Chu's book tends to be). That said, it is slower going. Its index is
rather better than the Chu (which is one page), making it handier for
looking up bits of syntax.

I have also been reading "Reconfigurable Computing" -- essentially a
collection of contributions from many authors on the subject, covering
everything from the internal processes of FPGA synthesisers (at length)
to application design techniques all the way to advanced topics like
genetic design and the future of FPGAs and nanotechnology. It's edited
by Scott Huack and AndrĂŠ Dehon (ISBN 978-0-12-370522-8). It's a bit of a
tome but very, very broad.

So IMVHO (YMMV), plump for the Chu (VHDL version .


Andrew
0xADF

 

[rupertlssmith@googlemail.]

On Aug 19, 1:17 am, Symon <symon_bre...@hotmail.com> wrote:

For every nice reply, it's important to have a dissenting one. The OP
post's IP (NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.15.253.202) resolves to something
called IBM regus UK. Whatever that is. Seems to be some kind of
training. I would suggest that 'Rupert' could be best served by asking
his trainers the answer to his query. Especially if the prices listed
match the course 'Rupert' is on. Anyway, IBM regus has gotta be better
than Doulos, right?

Cheers, Syms.

I work in an office rented in a building owned by Regus (in Manchester
in the UK), no idea what IBM has to do with Regus, but there you go.

I've nothing to hide. I work as a Java programmer for a company that
produces software for stock markets and traders, an area where FPGAs
are gaining ground if and when they can provide a speed advantage. Its
a bit of an arms race really; why all this need to go faster? to beat
the competition. As I said in my OP, I'm not looking into FPGAs with a
specific application in mind. Maybe somewhere down the line it might
become a work project, if it could be proved to give a speed
advantage, if there's the time and funding to do it and so on. In that
case, I would likely still be on the software side and someone who
knows what they are doing would do the hardware.

For now, I just want to take it up as a hobby and learn something
about it and have some fun doing it.

 

[rupertlssmith@googlemail.]

On Aug 18, 7:21 pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
....

There are open-source simulators out there, but the FPGA companies are
pretty tight with their synthesis algorithms (and even the mapping
between the bit files and the FPGA functions), so you won't find any
open-source synthesizers.
....
The FPGA is soldered down to the board.  During early development you
fire things up and write bit files directly to the chip (at least in the
Xilinx workflow) with a JTAG programmer.  FPGA chips (at least those
that don't have on-board PROM) are capable of loading configurations
from EEPROM, and most development boards will have a suitable EEPROM
that you can load your bit file onto so the board will come up by itself.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for this introductory overview of the process, very helpful
indeed.

One question about the specifics on programming the synthesized data
onto the chip: This is generally achieved through a JTAG port, with a
cable that goes from the USB port (serial/parallel ports on older
models), through a box of tricks, and out onto a JTAG connector. Is
this cable specific to each vendor or is the USB -> JTAG conversion
standard accross all? If I buy a cable from Xilinx, will it work on
all boards with Xilinx chips, no matter where I buy the board? I
notice that some of the sites offering prototyping boards also sell a
cable. The cables are a significant cost, so I'd like to make sure I
get the right cable with the maximum usability across different
boards.

Rupert

 

[Symon]

On 8/19/2010 10:03 AM, rupertlssmith@googlemail.com wrote:

On Aug 19, 1:17 am, Symon<symon_bre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
For every nice reply, it's important to have a dissenting one. The OP
post's IP (NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.15.253.202) resolves to something
called IBM regus UK. Whatever that is. Seems to be some kind of
training. I would suggest that 'Rupert' could be best served by asking
his trainers the answer to his query. Especially if the prices listed
match the course 'Rupert' is on. Anyway, IBM regus has gotta be better
than Doulos, right?

Cheers, Syms.

I work in an office rented in a building owned by Regus (in Manchester
in the UK), no idea what IBM has to do with Regus, but there you go.

I've nothing to hide. I work as a Java programmer for a company that
produces software for stock markets and traders, an area where FPGAs
are gaining ground if and when they can provide a speed advantage. Its
a bit of an arms race really; why all this need to go faster? to beat
the competition. As I said in my OP, I'm not looking into FPGAs with a
specific application in mind. Maybe somewhere down the line it might
become a work project, if it could be proved to give a speed
advantage, if there's the time and funding to do it and so on. In that
case, I would likely still be on the software side and someone who
knows what they are doing would do the hardware.

For now, I just want to take it up as a hobby and learn something
about it and have some fun doing it.

I take it all back!

 

[Nial Stewart]

I take it all back!

All of the sarcy comments, ever?




Nial.

 

[Symon]

On 8/19/2010 1:36 PM, Nial Stewart wrote:

I take it all back!

All of the sarcy comments, ever?




Nial.


No, only last night's drunken paranoia!

 

[Bryan]

On Aug 18, 8:07 am, "rupertlssm...@googlemail.com"
<rupertlssm...@googlemail.com> wrote:

What about books? Can anyone recommend a good book to get started
with?

This is not an HDL book but provides an overview of the Xilinx design
process. Free to download at:
http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/boards_and_kits/ug500.pdf

Xilinx also has an in-depth tutorial which is good to start with:
http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/dt_ise12-2_tutorials.htm

There should also be introductory tutorials for whatever board that
you buy. Check out the board documentation first before you buy.

My favorite book is HDL Chip Design by Douglas J. Smith. It has both
Verilog and VHDL code side-by-side and often shows a circuit
representation of how the code synthesizes. It's more of an example
book then a reference book, but I like it.

Bryan