Germany identifies a secure way to deal with spam

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

Thomas K <thom...@iceland.freeshell.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote

Does anybody else think that this is a poorly concealed attempt
at Government snooping on who's communicating with whom
(and possibly even what they're communicating about)?

Only the mindlessly paranoid.

Why? Because governments don't do that sort of thing?

http://www.techeye.net/mobile/rim-buckles-on-indias-blackberry-encryp...

The ministry's reasoning for snooping was, as usual, potential
terrorist threats. A terrorist could use BlackBerry email and
messaging services to coordinate and plot attacks as information
exchanged on these channels couldn't be monitored at the time.

After reinstating services the government ordered RIM to come
up with something that would give intelligence agencies
complete access to all services offered on its handsets by
October. This would include RIM being forced to hand over the
encryption keys and codes of its corporate mail and messaging
services. The extension to January 2011 was given after RIM
pushed for a timeframe of 23 weeks in August, while it worked
out how to cooperate without breaching data protection laws.

Terrorist threats that are largely staged by governments

Mindlessly silly. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

(or allowed to happen)

Even sillier. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

in order to justify this sort or rubbish for other reasons,
such as stripping away people's rights.

Completely off with the fucking fairys, as always.

Both parties do it. Look at Obama, except for a crock of
left wing bullshit thrown in it is just GWB's 3rd term in office.

How odd that the he hasnt staged even a single event like 9/11.

You're completely off with the fucking fairys.

 

[David Eather]

On 6/03/2011 8:08 AM, N wrote:

On 6/03/2011, David Eather wrote:
On 6/03/2011 7:53 AM, N wrote:
On 6/03/2011, David Eather wrote:


Charging for each e-mail doesn't work because most spam is sent by
zombies.

Using port 25. All data connections to SMTP servers come from IP
addresses and can tracked.

The problem is that it's like shutting the gate after the horse has
bolted. If the ISPs had started out with a small cost per email and
maybe lower general fees, it would have been accepted just like SMS is
charged separately for mobiles.



I was saying that the owner of the zombie did not intend to send the
spam - in all cases other than gross negligence it would be unfair to
charge them for the spam (how many people have never had a computer
virus?)

That's no excuse. Look at the people being hit with mobile phone bills
and ISP bills when they go over their limits.

yes - when *they* use it and go over their limits. If your car is stolen
and used in a robbery you aren't an accessory.

 

[kreed]

On Mar 6, 2:52 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:

kreed wrote



Thomas K <thom...@iceland.freeshell.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote
Does anybody else think that this is a poorly concealed attempt
at Government snooping on who's communicating with whom
(and possibly even what they're communicating about)?
Only the mindlessly paranoid.
Why? Because governments don't do that sort of thing?
http://www.techeye.net/mobile/rim-buckles-on-indias-blackberry-encryp....
The ministry's reasoning for snooping was, as usual, potential
terrorist threats. A terrorist could use BlackBerry email and
messaging services to coordinate and plot attacks as information
exchanged on these channels couldn't be monitored at the time.
After reinstating services the government ordered RIM to come
up with something that would give intelligence agencies
complete access to all services offered on its handsets by
October. This would include RIM being forced to hand over the
encryption keys and codes of its corporate mail and messaging
services. The extension to January 2011 was given after RIM
pushed for a timeframe of 23 weeks in August, while it worked
out how to cooperate without breaching data protection laws.
Terrorist threats that are largely staged by governments

Mindlessly silly. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

(or allowed to happen)

Even sillier. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

in order to justify this sort or rubbish for other reasons,
such as stripping away people's rights.

Completely off with the fucking fairys, as always.

Both parties do it.  Look at Obama, except for a crock of
left wing bullshit thrown in it is just GWB's 3rd term in office.

How odd that the he hasnt staged even a single event like 9/11.

Hmm,, underwear bomber, christmas tree bomber etc.

All complete with more laws to come down hard on the average person.

> You're completely off with the fucking fairys.

 

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
kreed wrote
Thomas K <thom...@iceland.freeshell.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote

Does anybody else think that this is a poorly concealed attempt
at Government snooping on who's communicating with whom
(and possibly even what they're communicating about)?

Only the mindlessly paranoid.

Why? Because governments don't do that sort of thing?

http://www.techeye.net/mobile/rim-buckles-on-indias-blackberry-encryp...

The ministry's reasoning for snooping was, as usual, potential
terrorist threats. A terrorist could use BlackBerry email and
messaging services to coordinate and plot attacks as information
exchanged on these channels couldn't be monitored at the time.
After reinstating services the government ordered RIM to come
up with something that would give intelligence agencies
complete access to all services offered on its handsets by
October. This would include RIM being forced to hand over the
encryption keys and codes of its corporate mail and messaging
services. The extension to January 2011 was given after RIM
pushed for a timeframe of 23 weeks in August, while it worked
out how to cooperate without breaching data protection laws.

Terrorist threats that are largely staged by governments

Mindlessly silly. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

(or allowed to happen)

Even sillier. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

in order to justify this sort or rubbish for other reasons,
such as stripping away people's rights.

Completely off with the fucking fairys, as always.

Both parties do it. Look at Obama, except for a crock of
left wing bullshit thrown in it is just GWB's 3rd term in office.

How odd that the he hasnt staged even a single event like 9/11.

Hmm,, underwear bomber, christmas tree bomber etc.

None done by Obummer, fool.

All complete with more laws to come down hard on the average person.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

There were NO new laws after those two clown.

You're completely off with the fucking fairys.

He's right.

Yes, I know it was me.

 

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
kreed wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
kreed wrote
Thomas K <thom...@iceland.freeshell.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote

Does anybody else think that this is a poorly concealed attempt
at Government snooping on who's communicating with whom
(and possibly even what they're communicating about)?

Only the mindlessly paranoid.

Why? Because governments don't do that sort of thing?

http://www.techeye.net/mobile/rim-buckles-on-indias-blackberry-encryp...

The ministry's reasoning for snooping was, as usual, potential
terrorist threats. A terrorist could use BlackBerry email and
messaging services to coordinate and plot attacks as information
exchanged on these channels couldn't be monitored at the time.
After reinstating services the government ordered RIM to come
up with something that would give intelligence agencies
complete access to all services offered on its handsets by
October. This would include RIM being forced to hand over the
encryption keys and codes of its corporate mail and messaging
services. The extension to January 2011 was given after RIM
pushed for a timeframe of 23 weeks in August, while it worked
out how to cooperate without breaching data protection laws.

Terrorist threats that are largely staged by governments

Mindlessly silly. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid,
London, Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

(or allowed to happen)

Even sillier. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

in order to justify this sort or rubbish for other reasons,
such as stripping away people's rights.

Completely off with the fucking fairys, as always.

Both parties do it. Look at Obama, except for a crock of
left wing bullshit thrown in it is just GWB's 3rd term in office.

How odd that the he hasnt staged even a single event like 9/11.

Hmm,, underwear bomber, christmas tree bomber etc.

None done by Obummer, fool.

All complete with more laws to come down hard on the average person.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

There were NO new laws after those two clown.

naked body scanners and patdown grope searches ?

Those werent laws and werent done as a result of either of those two clowns either.

You're completely off with the fucking fairys.

He's right.

Yes, I know it was me.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

kreed wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
kreed wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
kreed wrote
Thomas K <thom...@iceland.freeshell.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote

Does anybody else think that this is a poorly concealed
attempt at Government snooping on who's communicating with
whom (and possibly even what they're communicating about)?

Only the mindlessly paranoid.

Why? Because governments don't do that sort of thing?

http://www.techeye.net/mobile/rim-buckles-on-indias-blackberry-encryp...

The ministry's reasoning for snooping was, as usual, potential
terrorist threats. A terrorist could use BlackBerry email and
messaging services to coordinate and plot attacks as information
exchanged on these channels couldn't be monitored at the time.
After reinstating services the government ordered RIM to come
up with something that would give intelligence agencies
complete access to all services offered on its handsets by
October. This would include RIM being forced to hand over the
encryption keys and codes of its corporate mail and messaging
services. The extension to January 2011 was given after RIM
pushed for a timeframe of 23 weeks in August, while it worked
out how to cooperate without breaching data protection laws.

Terrorist threats that are largely staged by governments

Mindlessly silly. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid,
London, Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

(or allowed to happen)

Even sillier. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.

in order to justify this sort or rubbish for other reasons,
such as stripping away people's rights.

Completely off with the fucking fairys, as always.

Both parties do it. Look at Obama, except for a crock of
left wing bullshit thrown in it is just GWB's 3rd term in office.

How odd that the he hasnt staged even a single event like 9/11.

Hmm,, underwear bomber, christmas tree bomber etc.

None done by Obummer, fool.

All complete with more laws to come down hard on the average person.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

There were NO new laws after those two clown.

naked body scanners and patdown grope searches ?

Those werent laws and werent done as a result of either of those two clowns either.

And they didnt 'come down hard on the average person' either.

You're completely off with the fucking fairys.

He's right.

Yes, I know it was me.

 

[kreed]

On Mar 6, 6:33 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:

kreed wrote



Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
kreed wrote
Thomas K <thom...@iceland.freeshell.org> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote
Does anybody else think that this is a poorly concealed attempt
at Government snooping on who's communicating with whom
(and possibly even what they're communicating about)?
Only the mindlessly paranoid.
Why? Because governments don't do that sort of thing?
http://www.techeye.net/mobile/rim-buckles-on-indias-blackberry-encryp....
The ministry's reasoning for snooping was, as usual, potential
terrorist threats. A terrorist could use BlackBerry email and
messaging services to coordinate and plot attacks as information
exchanged on these channels couldn't be monitored at the time.
After reinstating services the government ordered RIM to come
up with something that would give intelligence agencies
complete access to all services offered on its handsets by
October. This would include RIM being forced to hand over the
encryption keys and codes of its corporate mail and messaging
services. The extension to January 2011 was given after RIM
pushed for a timeframe of 23 weeks in August, while it worked
out how to cooperate without breaching data protection laws.
Terrorist threats that are largely staged by governments
Mindlessly silly. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.
(or allowed to happen)
Even sillier. That isnt what happened with 9/11, Madrid, London,
Mumbai, Bali etc etc etc.
in order to justify this sort or rubbish for other reasons,
such as stripping away people's rights.
Completely off with the fucking fairys, as always.
Both parties do it. Look at Obama, except for a crock of
left wing bullshit thrown in it is just GWB's 3rd term in office.
How odd that the he hasnt staged even a single event like 9/11.
Hmm,, underwear bomber, christmas tree bomber etc.

None done by Obummer, fool.

All complete with more laws to come down hard on the average person.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

There were NO new laws after those two clown.

naked body scanners and patdown grope searches ?

You're completely off with the fucking fairys.

He's right.

Yes, I know it was me.

 

[Thomas K]

In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Thomas K wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote
Does anybody else think that this is a poorly concealed attempt
at Government snooping on who's communicating with whom
(and possibly even what they're communicating about)?

Only the mindlessly paranoid.

Why?

Because its only the mindlessly paranoid that 'think' like that.

I heard you the first time. Care to explain yourself rather than
repeat yourself?

Are you suggesting that it is paranoid to suspect that governments
want to spy on the citizenry for self-serving rather than altruistic
ends? Or perhaps that it's paranoid to suspect that they're up to no
good when it's under the name of such a good and honourable cause as
cutting down on spam? (Of course, I consider both to be justified.)

Because governments don't do that sort of thing?

Not like that they dont, because they dont need to do it like that.

You dont SERIOUSLY believe that no govt is doing anything
about checking for terrorists communicating right now do you ?

Of course not. They're doing everything they can. As much as they love
their security theatre which reassures their people that the bad guys
are being kept out so they can win elections, they'll jump at the
chance to get any data which might actually be useful for
counter-terrorism. I have no doubts about that.

They dont need that sort of hare brained scheme to snoop as much as they like.

Actually, they do. Even if the German government already monitors all
email transactions on their own ISPs, a lot will be sent via dedicated
servers in datacentres in other countries or via cloud-based or
web-based services so the details of emails coming and going are not
transparent.

They are also unable to break the encryption. I'm not quite yet ready
to swallow a conspiracy theory that the SHA-3 contest is all a sham to
produce algorithms which are already broken.

So it is very difficult for Germany to monitor something like https
google apps, or a company with a VPN to a mailserver in the US.

This applies to more than email, but email is a valuable point to
target for intelligence if you want to make a focused effort.

http://www.techeye.net/mobile/rim-buckles-on-indias-blackberry-encryption-pressure

Just because those fools couldnt work out how to snoop at the time proves nothing.

End-to-end encryption works. And they _have_ figured out to do it --
ask for the keys. I suspect it wouldn't slide in Germany though.

*snip*

Just because those fools couldnt work out how to snoop at the time proves nothing.

You have a sticky yank key.

--
thomask@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

 

[Rod Speed]

Thomas K wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Thomas K wrote

Does anybody else think that this is a poorly concealed attempt
at Government snooping on who's communicating with whom
(and possibly even what they're communicating about)?

Only the mindlessly paranoid.

Why?

Because its only the mindlessly paranoid that 'think' like that.

I heard you the first time.

Cretins usually do benefit from repetition, it takes time to get thru their ear to ear bone.

Care to explain yourself

Just did.

rather than repeat yourself?

I did both.

Are you suggesting that it is paranoid to suspect that governments
want to spy on the citizenry for self-serving rather than altruistic ends?

Yes it is when its so easy for them to do that if they want to without
bothering to try to get people to use some hare brained govt email system.

Or perhaps that it's paranoid to suspect that they're up to no good
when it's under the name of such a good and honourable cause as
cutting down on spam?

Or perhaps not.

(Of course, I consider both to be justified.)

More fool you. But then you are one of the mindlessly paranoid.

Because governments don't do that sort of thing?

Not like that they dont, because they dont need to do it like that.

You dont SERIOUSLY believe that no govt is doing anything
about checking for terrorists communicating right now do you ?

Of course not. They're doing everything they can.

And clearly when they have caught so many of them, it must be working.

As much as they love their security theatre which reassures
their people that the bad guys are being kept out

They clearly have avoided another 9/11 or worse.

so they can win elections,

Or they prefer to not have another 9/11. Radical, I know.

they'll jump at the chance to get any data which might actually be useful for counter-terrorism.

They dont get any more than they can currently get with the existing email systems.

I have no doubts about that.

More fool you. But then you are one of the mindlessly paranoid.

They dont need that sort of hare brained scheme to snoop as much as they like.

Actually, they do.

Actually, they dont.

Even if the German government already monitors all email
transactions on their own ISPs, a lot will be sent via dedicated
servers in datacentres in other countries or via cloud-based or
web-based services so the details of emails coming and going
are not transparent.

Those arent going to use de-mail, stupid.

And it isnt hard to snoop on those other approaches anyway.

They are also unable to break the encryption.

Those that currently encrypt their emails can keep doing that with de-mail, stupid.

I'm not quite yet ready to swallow a conspiracy theory that the SHA-3
contest is all a sham to produce algorithms which are already broken.

So it is very difficult for Germany to monitor something like https google apps,

Wrong, as always. And de-mail wont do anything about that anyway.

or a company with a VPN to a mailserver in the US.

Wrong, as always. And de-mail wont do anything about that anyway.

This applies to more than email, but email is a valuable point
to target for intelligence if you want to make a focused effort.

Anyone who wants to do that is doing that already. Dont need de-mail to do that.

http://www.techeye.net/mobile/rim-buckles-on-indias-blackberry-encryption-pressure

Just because those fools couldnt work out how to snoop at the time proves nothing.

End-to-end encryption works.

Yes, and de-mail wont have any effect on that.

And they _have_ figured out to do it -- ask for the keys.

Doesnt work when those with the keys make an obscene
gesture in your general direction when asked for them.

I suspect it wouldn't slide in Germany though.

Yep, they tend to be a bit paranoid about police states.

Cant imagine why for the life of me.

*snip*

Just because those fools couldnt work out how to snoop at the time proves nothing.

You have a sticky yank key.

You're the only one wanking all over your keyboard, child.