GAL16V8D pal what does it do ?

[mark krawczuk]

hi, can some one tell me what this GAL16V8D pal chip actually does ? in a
simple way........?
i have downloaded the data sheet , but it doesnt make much sense to me ,
hopefull some one can explain it in a basic way ?


thanks,
mark k

 

[JW]

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:09:04 +0930 "mark krawczuk" <krawczuk65@dodo.com.au>
wrote in Message id:
<468c8078$0$36717$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>:

hi, can some one tell me what this GAL16V8D pal chip actually does ? in a
simple way........?

Nothing. Until it's programmed, anyway.

i have downloaded the data sheet , but it doesnt make much sense to me ,
hopefull some one can explain it in a basic way ?

Basic way? Depending on how it's programmed, applying certain inputs
affects the state of it's outputs.

 

[Eeyore]

mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, can some one tell me what this GAL16V8D pal chip actually does ? in a
simple way........?
i have downloaded the data sheet , but it doesnt make much sense to me ,
hopefull some one can explain it in a basic way ?

It's a programamble chip, intended to replace typical 'glue logic'.

If you're trying to fathom what one does in a piece of equipment you're trying
to reverse engineer, you're stuck without the programming details.

Graham

 

[mark krawczuk]

hi, thats sorta what im trying to do . what exactly do you mean by the
programming details. ?

this is the situation :

i have a eprom for a cars ecu that has been modified for perfromance, and
the eprom has been removed from the carrier , and a " pal security board "
has been soldered in which contains a GAL 16V8D .and then the eprom
plugs on top of the board .

i removed the eprom , read it and burnt it to another , but it wont work
( engine wont run) .

it looks like the eprom wont start the car unless its plugged on to the
pal security board, and from what i have found out so far , the , eprom
looks for teh security board every so often and if it aint there the car
wont run.

any body know how i can go about modifying the data so teh car will run
without the pal board ?
any links, ideas etc...

thanks,

mark k



"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:468CD305.F5332DF4@hotmail.com...

mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, can some one tell me what this GAL16V8D pal chip actually does ?
in a
simple way........?
i have downloaded the data sheet , but it doesnt make much sense to me ,
hopefull some one can explain it in a basic way ?

It's a programamble chip, intended to replace typical 'glue logic'.

If you're trying to fathom what one does in a piece of equipment you're
trying
to reverse engineer, you're stuck without the programming details.

Graham

 

[Gary Tait]

"mark krawczuk" <krawczuk65@dodo.com.au> wrote in
news:468d0e11$0$41303$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net:

it looks like the eprom wont start the car unless its plugged on to
the pal security board, and from what i have found out so far , the
, eprom looks for teh security board every so often and if it aint
there the car wont run.

any body know how i can go about modifying the data so teh car will
run without the pal board ?
any links, ideas etc...

Short answer, buy another security board form the vendor you obtained the
first from. They are using the PAL to protect their copyright to the
modified code therein.

 

[mark krawczuk]

at $280 for each board , i think not .
the whole setup to tune your car about $1400 plus , u buy the equipment , u
do the tuning and u still have to spend $280 EACH time u want to tune a car
, EVEN THOUGH u OWN the tuning hardware.
mark k


"Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns996493C767A98wonkynillmailnil@142.77.1.194...

"mark krawczuk" <krawczuk65@dodo.com.au> wrote in
news:468d0e11$0$41303$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net:

it looks like the eprom wont start the car unless its plugged on to
the pal security board, and from what i have found out so far , the
, eprom looks for teh security board every so often and if it aint
there the car wont run.

any body know how i can go about modifying the data so teh car will
run without the pal board ?
any links, ideas etc...

Short answer, buy another security board form the vendor you obtained the
first from. They are using the PAL to protect their copyright to the
modified code therein.

 

On Jul 4, 9:39 pm, "mark krawczuk" <krawczu...@dodo.com.au> wrote:

hi, can some one tell me what this GAL16V8D pal chip actually does ? in a
simple way........?
i have downloaded the data sheet , but it doesnt make much sense to me ,
hopefull some one can explain it in a basic way ?

thanks,
mark k

Crude, short answer: it's a tree (or grid, or array) of logic AND's
and OR's, which can be programmed as to where the AND's and the OR's
are connected between inputs and outputs.

 

[Heinz Liebhart]

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:09:04 +0930, "mark krawczuk"
<krawczuk65@dodo.com.au> wrote:

hi, can some one tell me what this GAL16V8D pal chip actually does ? in a
simple way........?

A GAL is a programmable logic circuit. Several (N)ANDs (N=ORs can be
simply replaced by one single circuit, saving place, supply current,
and, additionally, it makes it more flexible.

I have used a GAL16V8 for address decoding logic in a single board
system:
-----------------
ROM RAM LCD DIN1 DIN2 DOUT1 DOUT2
/AHH X x 1 1 1 1 1
/AHL X x 1 1 1 1 1
/PSEN 0 1 1 1 1 1 1
A7 A A 1 1 1 1 1
A6 A A 1 1 1 1 1
A5 A A 1 1 1 1 1
A4 A A 1 1 1 1 1
A3 A A 0 1 0 1 0
A2 A A 0 0 1 0 1
/RD 0 X X 0 0 x x
/WR X X X X x 0 0
Resulting
Range From 0x0000 0x0000 0xFFF0 0xFFF8 0xFFF4 0xFFF8 0xFFF4
To 0xFFFF 07FEF 0xFFF3 0xFFFC 0xFFF7 0xFFFC 0xFFF7
-----------------

This follows to a boolean algebra like this:
-----------------

lcden = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * /a3 * /a2 * /wr +
psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * /a3 * /a2 * /rd

/din1 = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * a3 * /a2 * /rd

dout1 = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * a3 * /a2 * /wr

/din2 = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * /a3 * a2 * /rd

dout2 = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * /a3 * a2 * /wr

/csrom = /psen * /rd

/csram = psen * /rd * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * a3 * a2 +
psen * /wr * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * a3 * a2
-----------------

Finally the programming of these ANDs and ORs can be made with a text
editor, a GAL ASM compiler translating the logic needs into a
programmable file. Finally u put this file with a GAL programmer into
the circuit.

title ADDRESS DECODER V2
pattern MOGAv10a
revision A
author Heinz Liebhart
company private
date 05/01/1999

chip MOGAv10a GAL16V8

;pin 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10

; IN IN IN IN IN IN IN
IN IN SUPPLY

ahh ahl a7 a6 a5 a4 a3
a2 rd gnd

;pin 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20

; IN IN OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT
OUT OUT SUPPLY

psen wr lcden din1 din2 dout1 dout2
csram csrom vcc

equations
lcden = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * /a3 * /a2 * /wr +
psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * /a3 * /a2 * /rd
/din1 = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * a3 * /a2 * /rd
dout1 = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * a3 * /a2 * /wr
/din2 = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * /a3 * a2 * /rd
dout2 = psen * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * /a3 * a2 * /wr
/csrom = /psen * /rd
/csram = psen * /rd * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * a3 * a2 +
psen * /wr * /ahh * /ahl * a7 * a6 * a5 * a4 * a3 * a2

-----------------

Aaah, we already know this equations ;-)

The GAL ASM "compiler" is producing a jedec file for programming the
chip and a log file, which e.g. looks like that:

-----------------

EQN2JED - Boolean Equations to JEDEC file assembler (Version V003)
Copyright (R) National Semiconductor Corporation 1990,1991
Document file for MOGAv10a.eqn
Device: 16V8

$LABELS 20 ahh ahl a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 rd gnd psen wr lcden din1 din2
dout1 dout2 csram csrom vcc

Pin Label Type
--- ----- ----
1 ahh com input
2 ahl com input
3 a7 com input
4 a6 com input
5 a5 com input
6 a4 com input
7 a3 com input
8 a2 com input
9 rd com input
10 gnd ground pin
11 psen com input
12 wr com input
13 lcden pos,com output
14 din1 neg,com output
15 din2 neg,com output
16 dout1 pos,com output
17 dout2 pos,com output
18 csram neg,com output
19 csrom neg,com output
20 vcc power pin

EQN2JED - Boolean Equations to JEDEC file assembler (Version V003)
Copyright (R) National Semiconductor Corporation 1990,1991

Device Utilization:

No of dedicated inputs used : 10/10 (100.0%)
No of feedbacks used as dedicated inputs : 1/6 (16.7%)
No of dedicated outputs used : 2/2 (100.0%)
No of feedbacks used as dedicated outputs : 5/6 (83.3%)

------------------------------------------
Pin Label Terms Usage
------------------------------------------
19 csrom 1/8 (12.5%)
18 csram 2/8 (25.0%)
17 dout2 1/8 (12.5%)
16 dout1 1/8 (12.5%)
15 din2 1/8 (12.5%)
14 din1 1/8 (12.5%)
13 lcden 2/8 (25.0%)
------------------------------------------
Total 9/64 (14.1%)
------------------------------------------

EQN2JED - Boolean Equations to JEDEC file assembler (Version V003)

Copyright (R) National Semiconductor Corporation 1990,1991

Chip diagram (DIP)

._____ _____.
| \__/ |
ahh | 1 20 | vcc
ahl | 2 19 | csrom
a7 | 3 18 | csram
a6 | 4 17 | dout2
a5 | 5 16 | dout1
a4 | 6 15 | din2
a3 | 7 14 | din1
a2 | 8 13 | lcden
rd | 9 12 | wr
gnd | 10 11 | psen
|______________|


-----------------

Finally this means for your (reverse) engineering:
- Find out which pins are input, which are output.
- Check which in combinations can occur.
- Check the out values for these in.
Then you can do your reverse engineering.
A simple binary counter connected to the inpus might be useful ;-)

Hope this helps,
Heinz

 

[Gary Tait]

"mark krawczuk" <krawczuk65@dodo.com.au> wrote in
news:468d7055$0$36722$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net:

at $280 for each board , i think not .
the whole setup to tune your car about $1400 plus , u buy the
equipment , u do the tuning and u still have to spend $280 EACH time
u want to tune a car , EVEN THOUGH u OWN the tuning hardware.
mark k

Its called software licensing. Their terms are you pay them $280 per car to
use their tuning hardware. The PAL is just there to protect their right to
that $280 per car.

 

[Werty]

Its programmable logic .

Today , it can pck up the stuff not in

the ARM cpu's , such as ultra H.S.

serial to parallel "path" into the cpu .

You can use another cpu , cause they

dont have the serial inputs , a PLD has .

PLDs can do many RLL serial streams

in parallel , CPU's can't .

Some CPU's have USB 2.0 Hi-Speed , which

is Run-Length-Limited , but only one channel .

PLD's can also preprocess the serial , to

allow the CPU to read 1 32 bit word of priorty

info , alllowing CPU to switch tasks quicker .

This 32bit can be the address into the routines .

Thus the PLD is actually redirecting the flow .















..

 

[mark krawczuk]

hi , no u dont pay the money each time to use their tuning hardware ,
cause u already have to buy the tuning hardware at a cost of $1000 !!! then
u have to pay the 280 $


"Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns996B89864D64Bwonkynillmailnil@142.77.1.194...

"mark krawczuk" <krawczuk65@dodo.com.au> wrote in
news:468d7055$0$36722$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net:

at $280 for each board , i think not .
the whole setup to tune your car about $1400 plus , u buy the
equipment , u do the tuning and u still have to spend $280 EACH time
u want to tune a car , EVEN THOUGH u OWN the tuning hardware.
mark k


Its called software licensing. Their terms are you pay them $280 per car
to
use their tuning hardware. The PAL is just there to protect their right to
that $280 per car.