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server
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Corvid
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-------- Forwarded Message --------
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From: John Doe <always.look@message.header>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: OT: Items in a metal box are cooler?
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 07:58:58 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Metal is cooler than ambient temperature?
Is the temperature inside of a metal box cooler than ambient
temperature?
I need to look. If that is so. Can be used for storing medicine and
maybe other things.
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From: John Doe <always.look@message.header>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: OT: Items in a metal box are cooler?
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 07:58:58 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Metal is cooler than ambient temperature?
Is the temperature inside of a metal box cooler than ambient
temperature?
I need to look. If that is so. Can be used for storing medicine and
maybe other things.
R
Ricketty C
Guest
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 1:29:26 PM UTC-4, Corvid wrote:
Oh yeah, in fact you can put a metal box inside a metal box and get even more cooling. This can be continued ad infinitum. But you can\'t get down to absolute zero, that would violate laws of thermodynamics.
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Oh yeah, in fact you can put a metal box inside a metal box and get even more cooling. This can be continued ad infinitum. But you can\'t get down to absolute zero, that would violate laws of thermodynamics.
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
J
Jeroen Belleman
Guest
On 2020-08-05 19:29, Corvid wrote:
No, of course not.
Jeroen Belleman
No, of course not.
Jeroen Belleman
J
John Doe
Guest
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
Have you ever tried?
If you sit something down on an aluminum flat bar, the aluminum very
likely will dissipate heat from the object.
Metal is much cooler than ambient temperature. I know that for a fact.
It\'s not just to the touch, it\'s actually measured much cooler.
Sometimes people are dismissive of new ideas, especially common things
they should have thought of themselves. Hopefully it\'s a telltale sign
that the idea has never been tried.
--
I originally posted that in the metalworking group. My entourage (a
little upset that I expose its nym-shifting) posted it here for some
strange reason, maybe because I was thinking of doing so? Perhaps it\'s
an alter ego of mine...
Have you ever tried?
If you sit something down on an aluminum flat bar, the aluminum very
likely will dissipate heat from the object.
Metal is much cooler than ambient temperature. I know that for a fact.
It\'s not just to the touch, it\'s actually measured much cooler.
Sometimes people are dismissive of new ideas, especially common things
they should have thought of themselves. Hopefully it\'s a telltale sign
that the idea has never been tried.
--
I originally posted that in the metalworking group. My entourage (a
little upset that I expose its nym-shifting) posted it here for some
strange reason, maybe because I was thinking of doing so? Perhaps it\'s
an alter ego of mine...
J
John Doe
Guest
I posted the content to the metalworking group, not here.
This original post of my content is by a nym-shifting stalker who
doesn\'t like the fact I expose its nym-shifting on USENET, maybe
aided by being drunk at the time, and thinks its mischief will
dissuade me (that\'s a laugh).
see also...
=?UTF-8?B?8J+QriBDb3dzIGFyZSBOaWNlIPCfkK4=?= <nice@cows.moo>
Banders <snap@mailchute.com>
Corvid <bl@ckbirds.org>
Cows Are Nice <cows@nice.moo>
Cows are nice <moo@cows.org>
Cows are Nice <nice@cows.moo>
dogs <dogs@home.com>
Great Pumpkin <pumpkin@patch.net>
Jose Curvo <jcurvo@mymail.com>
Local Favorite <how2recycle@palomar.info>
Sea <freshness@coast.org>
Standard Poodle <standard@poodle.com>
and others...
--
Corvid <bl@ckbirds.org> wrote:
This original post of my content is by a nym-shifting stalker who
doesn\'t like the fact I expose its nym-shifting on USENET, maybe
aided by being drunk at the time, and thinks its mischief will
dissuade me (that\'s a laugh).
see also...
=?UTF-8?B?8J+QriBDb3dzIGFyZSBOaWNlIPCfkK4=?= <nice@cows.moo>
Banders <snap@mailchute.com>
Corvid <bl@ckbirds.org>
Cows Are Nice <cows@nice.moo>
Cows are nice <moo@cows.org>
Cows are Nice <nice@cows.moo>
dogs <dogs@home.com>
Great Pumpkin <pumpkin@patch.net>
Jose Curvo <jcurvo@mymail.com>
Local Favorite <how2recycle@palomar.info>
Sea <freshness@coast.org>
Standard Poodle <standard@poodle.com>
and others...
--
Corvid <bl@ckbirds.org> wrote:
R
Ricketty C
Guest
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 2:15:03 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
This shows you don\'t understand the basic laws of thermodynamics and also you don\'t understand the rather simple reasoning behind them.
If the metal was cooler than ambient, why would the heat from the ambient not flow into the metal and warm it up? If the heat from the ambient can\'t flow into the metal, how will it cool anything else?
This shows your state of mind which would seem to be... well, I\'ll just leave it at odd.
--
Rick C.
+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
This shows you don\'t understand the basic laws of thermodynamics and also you don\'t understand the rather simple reasoning behind them.
If the metal was cooler than ambient, why would the heat from the ambient not flow into the metal and warm it up? If the heat from the ambient can\'t flow into the metal, how will it cool anything else?
This shows your state of mind which would seem to be... well, I\'ll just leave it at odd.
--
Rick C.
+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
J
John Doe
Guest
I\'m trying to take advantage of the FACT metal is much cooler than
ambient room temperature. The concept I posted, or something
similar, is reasonable.
Some close-minded people tend to dismiss new ideas outright...
--
Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
ambient room temperature. The concept I posted, or something
similar, is reasonable.
Some close-minded people tend to dismiss new ideas outright...
--
Ricketty C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
D
Dave Platt
Guest
In article <rgev3q$gkh$1@dont-email.me>,
John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:
What \"FACT\" is this? Under what set of conditions do you believe it
will be true?
In the general case, if a metal object is sitting in a room where the
room temperature is stable, the metal object will come into thermal
equilibrium with the rest of the room. They\'ll be at the same
temperature. Heat energy will enter, and leave the metal object at
the same rate. (If you want them to have different temperatures, you
have to add work to the system to supply heat, or to \"pump\" it away
somehow.)
If you touch the object then, it can quite easily _feel_ cooler than
whatever it\'s sitting on, or cooler than the room air, even though
they\'re at the same temperature. This has to do with the fact that
your body\'s temperature is higher than the metal, and the metal will
conduct energy away from you body faster than the air (or the table).
As this happens, the metal will warm up to a higher temperature than
the ambient, and if you\'ve put something inside it, that object will
also heat up.
Now, there are definitely conditions under which a metal object can
_temporarily_ be cooler or hotter than the ambient air. For example,
if you place a dark-colored metal object outdoors in the afternoon,
and wait until the sun goes down and the sky becomes dark, the metal
will cool down faster than the air does. This happens because it\'s an
efficient radiator of infra-red, and radiates its internal heat away
into the (dark) sky quite efficiently. The metal can drop well below
the air temperature, and if it cools enough, water from the air will
condense on its surface as dew.
The opposite thing happens in the morning, when the sun comes up - the
metal will absorb sunlight efficiently and will heat up faster than
the air does.
So, you can make a refrigerator of sorts - a well-insulated box with a
set of heat-radiator fins on it. During the day, keep the box
well-covered and insulated. When the sun goes down, remove the
insulating cover, and let heat radiate away into the dark sky. Won\'t
work as well if the sky is cloudy at night, though.
This trick doesn\'t require metal, of course. Solar pool-heating
systems can be used to cool a pool by running water through the
(plastic) panels at night - this is sometimes done in hot climates to
provide a cooler pool during the day.
John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:
What \"FACT\" is this? Under what set of conditions do you believe it
will be true?
In the general case, if a metal object is sitting in a room where the
room temperature is stable, the metal object will come into thermal
equilibrium with the rest of the room. They\'ll be at the same
temperature. Heat energy will enter, and leave the metal object at
the same rate. (If you want them to have different temperatures, you
have to add work to the system to supply heat, or to \"pump\" it away
somehow.)
If you touch the object then, it can quite easily _feel_ cooler than
whatever it\'s sitting on, or cooler than the room air, even though
they\'re at the same temperature. This has to do with the fact that
your body\'s temperature is higher than the metal, and the metal will
conduct energy away from you body faster than the air (or the table).
As this happens, the metal will warm up to a higher temperature than
the ambient, and if you\'ve put something inside it, that object will
also heat up.
Now, there are definitely conditions under which a metal object can
_temporarily_ be cooler or hotter than the ambient air. For example,
if you place a dark-colored metal object outdoors in the afternoon,
and wait until the sun goes down and the sky becomes dark, the metal
will cool down faster than the air does. This happens because it\'s an
efficient radiator of infra-red, and radiates its internal heat away
into the (dark) sky quite efficiently. The metal can drop well below
the air temperature, and if it cools enough, water from the air will
condense on its surface as dew.
The opposite thing happens in the morning, when the sun comes up - the
metal will absorb sunlight efficiently and will heat up faster than
the air does.
So, you can make a refrigerator of sorts - a well-insulated box with a
set of heat-radiator fins on it. During the day, keep the box
well-covered and insulated. When the sun goes down, remove the
insulating cover, and let heat radiate away into the dark sky. Won\'t
work as well if the sky is cloudy at night, though.
This trick doesn\'t require metal, of course. Solar pool-heating
systems can be used to cool a pool by running water through the
(plastic) panels at night - this is sometimes done in hot climates to
provide a cooler pool during the day.
L
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Guest
onsdag den 5. august 2020 kl. 20.51.43 UTC+2 skrev John Doe:
what magic stops the ambient from heating the metal until the temperature
is equalized?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
what magic stops the ambient from heating the metal until the temperature
is equalized?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Wed, 05 Aug 2020 19:47:11 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
Human senses are amazing, and one can pretty well estimate the thermal
conductivity of a surface by touching it. Metal feels cooler than
paper, even when both are settled at ambient.
Fingers are amazing at sensing textures, too.
Of course a metal box doesn\'t make itself cooler than a plastic one.
That would violate COE and the box would get all drippy.
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
Human senses are amazing, and one can pretty well estimate the thermal
conductivity of a surface by touching it. Metal feels cooler than
paper, even when both are settled at ambient.
Fingers are amazing at sensing textures, too.
Of course a metal box doesn\'t make itself cooler than a plastic one.
That would violate COE and the box would get all drippy.
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 18:21:38 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:
There are millions of people that you can do battle with.
<always.look@message.header> wrote:
There are millions of people that you can do battle with.
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 2020-08-05 15:09, John Larkin wrote:
worries.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
But if you had a big enough chunk of metal it would solve all our energy
worries.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
J
John Robertson
Guest
On 2020/08/05 11:14 a.m., John Doe wrote:
So you have checked your hypothesis by using thermal probes - several in
an enclosed space containing a certain volume of air, and several probes
bonded to various metal surfaces that are in the same enclosed spacer
with the metal supported to avoid contact as much as possible with the
surface of the container.
Then you close off the box (watch out for stray IR, etc.) and watch the
meters that were set up by someone else in a double-blind method of
testing. Leave it for X number of hours to have the temperature stable
in the container (insulated?).
Then send the results out in a paper with a description of all the tools
used so others could try to replicate the process.
Then try it in open air, but you have to control water vapour,
temperature, etc. some how.
I\'d say it was amazing that everyone missed this so far - thermal probes
have been around since the 1800s...
Look up Maxwell\'s Daemon if you want some real cooling...
John ;-#)#
So you have checked your hypothesis by using thermal probes - several in
an enclosed space containing a certain volume of air, and several probes
bonded to various metal surfaces that are in the same enclosed spacer
with the metal supported to avoid contact as much as possible with the
surface of the container.
Then you close off the box (watch out for stray IR, etc.) and watch the
meters that were set up by someone else in a double-blind method of
testing. Leave it for X number of hours to have the temperature stable
in the container (insulated?).
Then send the results out in a paper with a description of all the tools
used so others could try to replicate the process.
Then try it in open air, but you have to control water vapour,
temperature, etc. some how.
I\'d say it was amazing that everyone missed this so far - thermal probes
have been around since the 1800s...
Look up Maxwell\'s Daemon if you want some real cooling...
John ;-#)#
J
John Doe
Guest
John Larkin wrote:
A nym-shifting troll posted that content here, not me.
I was going by two temperature readings inside of my 3D printer, but
apparently one of those readings is caused by some electronics heating
up even before something is printed.
I would have figured out what was going on before posting that content
here. My entourage jumped the gun.
A nym-shifting troll posted that content here, not me.
I was going by two temperature readings inside of my 3D printer, but
apparently one of those readings is caused by some electronics heating
up even before something is printed.
I would have figured out what was going on before posting that content
here. My entourage jumped the gun.
J
John Doe
Guest
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote:
> So you have checked your hypothesis by using thermal probes
The difference in readings was probably caused by some electronics
heating up inside of the 3D printer. I should have noticed (and would
have noticed before posting here) that the one reading was much higher
than ambient temperature, therefore probably caused by some electronics
apart from the extruder heating process. If my theory were correct, one
reading would be much lower, not much higher.
The content was posted by a nym-shifting troll who is stalking me
because it\'s upset that I have exposed its nym-shifting. I would have
noticed the simple mistake before posting that content to this group.
> So you have checked your hypothesis by using thermal probes
The difference in readings was probably caused by some electronics
heating up inside of the 3D printer. I should have noticed (and would
have noticed before posting here) that the one reading was much higher
than ambient temperature, therefore probably caused by some electronics
apart from the extruder heating process. If my theory were correct, one
reading would be much lower, not much higher.
The content was posted by a nym-shifting troll who is stalking me
because it\'s upset that I have exposed its nym-shifting. I would have
noticed the simple mistake before posting that content to this group.
P
Pimpom
Guest
On 8/5/2020 11:44 PM, John Doe wrote:
heat more quickly /from/ your body, but that\'s only if the metal
is at a lower temperature than your body. Have you ever touched
metal when the temp is at 40°C or more? It feels hotter than
those other materials because it transfers heat more easily /to/
your body.
I remember a time long ago when I was attending special summer
classes in a place where temps regularly exceeded 45°C. When I
got back from class in the afternoon, I had to pull out a
handkerchief to hold the lock on my hostel room. No problem
holding the wooden door.
Metal *feels* cooler than air, plastic, etc because it conducts
heat more quickly /from/ your body, but that\'s only if the metal
is at a lower temperature than your body. Have you ever touched
metal when the temp is at 40°C or more? It feels hotter than
those other materials because it transfers heat more easily /to/
your body.
I remember a time long ago when I was attending special summer
classes in a place where temps regularly exceeded 45°C. When I
got back from class in the afternoon, I had to pull out a
handkerchief to hold the lock on my hostel room. No problem
holding the wooden door.
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 12:55:19 -0700, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:
Polished metals, especially copper and brass, are excellent reflectors
at thermal wavelengths. Plastics are nearly black in the thermal IR.
So if there is a radiant heat source around, the metal will feel
cooler than some other things.
Unless you paint it.
Platt) wrote:
Polished metals, especially copper and brass, are excellent reflectors
at thermal wavelengths. Plastics are nearly black in the thermal IR.
So if there is a radiant heat source around, the metal will feel
cooler than some other things.
Unless you paint it.
J
Jasen Betts
Guest
On 2020-08-05, Corvid <bl@ckbirds.org> wrote:
No, mainly it\'s cooler than your fingertips and a good conductor of heat.
--
Jasen.
No, mainly it\'s cooler than your fingertips and a good conductor of heat.
--
Jasen.
J
Jasen Betts
Guest
On 2020-08-05, John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:
If you want to fail attempt an assault on the laws of
thermodynamics.
--
Jasen.
If you want to fail attempt an assault on the laws of
thermodynamics.
--
Jasen.