No real vehicle comes anywhere near averaging freeway speeds over it's
6idnVqzaun2_rTXnZ2dnUVZ_gJi4p2d@giganews.com...Don't know much about stepper motors, do you?
A track that works in real weather and is compatible with existing roads
You lost me there---I'm in favor of using perfectly conventional
The picture is just so people can visualize the possible
Again you've lost me---you are obviously misinterpreting what I said.
True. Thanks for the affirmation, Bill.
Speaking of offloading wheel weight, this is an inboard disk brake setup
The #1 and 2 lanes are for those who have already charged up in the #3
Is that $10 million per mile or mile lane?
By your numbers rebuilding the entire Eisenhower system would be 2.1
Well, I've designed control systems and drivers for them, but I haven't"Bill Ward" <bward@ix.REMOVETHISnetcom.com> wrote in message
news
On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:48:31 -0700, tgdenning wrote:
On Jun 5, 11:26 am, John Stafford <jstaff...@winona.edu> wrote:
On 6/5/09 7:52 AM, in article
a187370d-0d8a-4565-8cb8-407364942...@d31g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
"tgdenn...@earthlink.net" <tgdenn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Jun 5, 8:13 am, john joseph <nowh...@nowhere.nl> wrote:
tgdenn...@earthlink.net wrote:
On Jun 4, 8:58 pm, john joseph <nowh...@nowhere.nl> wrote:
It is very simple. Think of motors in a wheel bouncing down the
road. Heavy is not good because too much energy is fed right
back to them because the suspension cannot transfer it quickly
enough to some putative absorber in the chassis.
However, if one distributes the total desired power among four
wheels, then each will be lighter and life is good again.
My friend, I have been building race setups for forty years. I
know this shit.
Glad to hear it. I like to talk to people who know what they are
talking about. However, my point does not change---the benefit of
4 electric motors is pretty much the same even if they are
'mounted inboard'. I am not interested in worrying about what you
call them.
Never seen "inboard" mounted wheels on an autombile. What would
they look like?
http://teslamotorsclub.com/technical/303-hub-motors-dual-motors.html
That is not an inboard hub motor. It is not a hub motor at all. It is
a perfectly conventional motor. A hub motor is inside the wheel, not
just something that drives the hub. There are no motors or engines
that drive the wheel anywhere but to the hub. None drive at the rim
of the wheel (except for a couple exotic show motorcycles that are
impractical. Citations available.)
You lost me there---I'm in favor of using perfectly conventional
motors if that works.
If I were home I'd shoot some pics of the Porsche's IRS and you would
see it's connected to the transmission just like that illustration
done by the would-be impressionistic, unlearned contributor to the
site in question.
The picture is just so people can visualize the possible
configuration. I don't see anything wrong with it.
So, let's stick to real-world terms. I would not use the post in
question as a source of any authority.
Scroll down to number 8 I think. I would dispense with disc brakes
on the wheel and put some very simple parking-brake device on the
inboard side as a 'final ultimate' emergency stopping option,
relying on electric braking.
Old hat. We have been mounting disc brakes on drive shafts for many
years. I think Lotus does it. I have done it. You can't turn a disc
brake into a generator. Its lack of a flywheel effect and radius make
it impractical, and also consider that all electric motors are also
generators, but not particularly powerful.
Again you've lost me---you are obviously misinterpreting what I said.
Braking is done by the electric motor; for most of the braking period
you are recovering the kinetic energy, which is why it is called
regenerative braking. The ultimate implementation would have no disc
brakes at all. If you need further explanation please let me know.
Motor/generators are transducers, not brakes. That means you can only
slow down, not come to a complete stop. If the electronic controller
failed, you couldn't even slow down. How big a market do you expect
for cars without brakes?
Remember, everything looks easy to the guy who doesn't actually have to
do it.
Don't know much about stepper motors, do you?
The question was about the size of the market. I'd want disk brakes, or
Here's a clue for you:
If it is cheaper in the long run, yes.
No matter what you do today, we will still have to for at least 10 years.
Have you ever heard of bearings?
Well it's certainly better than two really heavy wheels and two normal
Do the numbers. That's half a million miles or one year 24/7/52 at
The same as for ICE:
But it vastly increases reliability.
Oil and tar sand recovery from domestic sources would be economical
OK, take the batteries out of a Tesla and put it on a slot car track
No answer?
You think the U. S. would continue to import a half trillion dollars a
Actually AFDC has been reduced from it's Reagan era high of 0.5% of
It's a good thing we have alert readers here to debunk regenerative
I feel like I just missed a mountain curve, went over the guard rail
Chrysler did pretty well with their Voyager. When the ABS went out,
That's why we pay the guy who actually does it.
The issue was motor failure.
But motors can be reversed, and so you can certainly come to a
Just because you've never seen it doesn't make it a negative requirement,On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 19:35:02 +0100, Androcles wrote:
"Bill Ward" <bward@ix.REMOVETHISnetcom.com> wrote in message
news
On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:48:31 -0700, tgdenning wrote:
On Jun 5, 11:26 am, John Stafford <jstaff...@winona.edu> wrote:
On 6/5/09 7:52 AM, in article
a187370d-0d8a-4565-8cb8-407364942...@d31g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
"tgdenn...@earthlink.net" <tgdenn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Jun 5, 8:13 am, john joseph <nowh...@nowhere.nl> wrote:
tgdenn...@earthlink.net wrote:
On Jun 4, 8:58 pm, john joseph <nowh...@nowhere.nl> wrote:
It is very simple. Think of motors in a wheel bouncing down the
road. Heavy is not good because too much energy is fed right
back to them because the suspension cannot transfer it quickly
enough to some putative absorber in the chassis.
However, if one distributes the total desired power among four
wheels, then each will be lighter and life is good again.
My friend, I have been building race setups for forty years. I
know this shit.
Glad to hear it. I like to talk to people who know what they are
talking about. However, my point does not change---the benefit of
4 electric motors is pretty much the same even if they are
'mounted inboard'. I am not interested in worrying about what you
call them.
Never seen "inboard" mounted wheels on an autombile. What would
they look like?
http://teslamotorsclub.com/technical/303-hub-motors-dual-motors.html
That is not an inboard hub motor. It is not a hub motor at all. It is
a perfectly conventional motor. A hub motor is inside the wheel, not
just something that drives the hub. There are no motors or engines
that drive the wheel anywhere but to the hub. None drive at the rim
of the wheel (except for a couple exotic show motorcycles that are
impractical. Citations available.)
You lost me there---I'm in favor of using perfectly conventional
motors if that works.
If I were home I'd shoot some pics of the Porsche's IRS and you would
see it's connected to the transmission just like that illustration
done by the would-be impressionistic, unlearned contributor to the
site in question.
The picture is just so people can visualize the possible
configuration. I don't see anything wrong with it.
So, let's stick to real-world terms. I would not use the post in
question as a source of any authority.
Scroll down to number 8 I think. I would dispense with disc brakes
on the wheel and put some very simple parking-brake device on the
inboard side as a 'final ultimate' emergency stopping option,
relying on electric braking.
Old hat. We have been mounting disc brakes on drive shafts for many
years. I think Lotus does it. I have done it. You can't turn a disc
brake into a generator. Its lack of a flywheel effect and radius make
it impractical, and also consider that all electric motors are also
generators, but not particularly powerful.
Again you've lost me---you are obviously misinterpreting what I said.
Braking is done by the electric motor; for most of the braking period
you are recovering the kinetic energy, which is why it is called
regenerative braking. The ultimate implementation would have no disc
brakes at all. If you need further explanation please let me know.
Motor/generators are transducers, not brakes. That means you can only
slow down, not come to a complete stop. If the electronic controller
failed, you couldn't even slow down. How big a market do you expect
for cars without brakes?
Remember, everything looks easy to the guy who doesn't actually have to
do it.
Don't know much about stepper motors, do you?
Well, I've designed control systems and drivers for them, but I haven't
ever seen one used for vehicle propulsion or regeneration. Please tell
us more about that. An example or app note would be nice.
Such as regenerative braking, perhaps?
Nothing wrong with belt and suspenders or wearing a parachute if you plan