First Computer...

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 6:13:30 PM UTC-5, RichD wrote:

On January 24, bitrex wrote:
In WW2 there were electromechanical gun laying computers, the analog
computer could continually integrate the position from radar data to get
a target\'s velocity vector, and along with the range compute an
appropriate gun super elevation.
Here\'s a video series that shows how they worked, the mechanical
ball-integrator was an ingenious contraption:
https://youtu.be/lr1uK24SND8
I recall reading about submarine warfare in the Pacific. The boat had
a gizmo, the \"is was\", which somehow computed the aim of the torpedo
barrel. \"the triangle of sub tactics\"

The captain read the target\'s co-ordinates, through the periscope.
Presumably the speed was simply dx/dt, probably timed with a
wrist watch. Unclear how they estimated its range.

Submarines could do that with a standard optical approach.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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[Phil Hobbs]

Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 2:23:58 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:15:21 AM UTC-5, Jeff Layman
wrote:
On 24/01/2023 15:08, Dean Hoffman wrote:
I was watching the show Mail Call. It talks of anything
military. Guns, artillery, ships, whatever. The narrator
claimed the first computer might\'ve been on the USS
Missouri. It aimed the guns on the ship. Is there such a
thing as the first computer?
It depends what you mean by \"computer\". Isn\'t an abacus a
type of computer?!

It\'s pretty widely accepted that the first computer - as
perhaps most would use the term - was Colossus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
As you say, you first have to define what you are talking
about.

\"the world\'s first programmable, electronic, digital computer\"
is how Wikipedia talks about Colossus. It was not a stored
program computer, being programmed by switches and plugs.

Code breaking drove a branch of computing technology. Another
branch that was also desperately needed in the war, was
finding targeting solutions. I don\'t recall the name, but there
was a computer designed to be airborne, that was pretty
interesting. I can\'t seem to find it on the web. I thought it
was WWII vintage and used rather archaic components like delay
lines. Maybe not.

The \"targeting\" solution was done by analog in a gyro stabilized
bombsight, which also took control of the aircraft to fly it
steady and constant speed. The primary sensor was an optical
sight, making the whole idea of it a total piece of crap. Who
would have thought anyone would encounter cloud cover in northern
Europe, or that there would be a requirement for nighttime
bombings, and high altitude drops? Can we say morons? And the
product was the culmination of at least 15 years of development.
You can give a moron all the time and money in the world, and in
the end you\'re still left with a moron.
The pre-war doctrine was that B17s in combat box formation were
self-defending, and so could be used for daylight precision
bombing.

\'T\'weren\'t so, but it wasn\'t the Sperry or Norden folks\' fault.
The Sperry in particular was a beautiful piece of kit for its day.

That has nothing to do with the horrendously poor accuracy of the
bombsight even under ideal conditions. They were lucky to get within
miles of the target.

Yer cracked. But we knew that.

They used the bombsight for the A-bomb drops,
and both were off target by 2-3 miles.

Ya can\'t blame a bomb sight for somebody dropping when the target isn\'t
even in the field of view.

And the accuracy was much better than that, especially in Nagasaki. A
20-kT bomb isn\'t that dangerous if it\'s two or three miles away.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(Who lives exactly the wrong distance from Manhattan if there\'s a real
nuclear war.)

 

[piglet]

On 24/01/2023 9:04 pm, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 2:23:58 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:15:21 AM UTC-5, Jeff Layman
wrote:
On 24/01/2023 15:08, Dean Hoffman wrote:
I was watching the show Mail Call. It talks of anything
military. Guns, artillery, ships, whatever. The narrator
claimed the first computer might\'ve been on the USS Missouri.
It aimed the guns on the ship. Is there such a thing as the
first computer?
It depends what you mean by \"computer\". Isn\'t an abacus a type
of computer?!

It\'s pretty widely accepted that the first computer - as perhaps
most would use the term - was Colossus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
As you say, you first have to define what you are talking about.

\"the world\'s first programmable, electronic, digital computer\" is
how Wikipedia talks about Colossus. It was not a stored program
computer, being programmed by switches and plugs.

Code breaking drove a branch of computing technology. Another
branch that was also desperately needed in the war, was finding
targeting solutions. I don\'t recall the name, but there was a
computer designed to be airborne, that was pretty interesting. I
can\'t seem to find it on the web. I thought it was WWII vintage and
used rather archaic components like delay lines. Maybe not.

The \"targeting\" solution was done by analog in a gyro stabilized
bombsight, which also took control of the aircraft to fly it steady
and constant speed. The primary sensor was an optical sight, making
the whole idea of it a total piece of crap. Who would have thought
anyone would encounter cloud cover in northern Europe, or that there
would be a requirement for nighttime bombings, and high altitude
drops? Can we say morons? And the product was the culmination of at
least 15 years of development. You can give a moron all the time and
money in the world, and in the end you\'re still left with a moron.
The pre-war doctrine was that B17s in combat box formation were
self-defending, and so could be used for daylight precision bombing.

\'T\'weren\'t so, but it wasn\'t the Sperry or Norden folks\' fault. The
Sperry in particular was a beautiful piece of kit for its day.

That has nothing to do with the horrendously poor accuracy of the bombsight even under ideal conditions. They were lucky to get within miles of the target. They used the bombsight for the A-bomb drops, and both were off target by 2-3 miles. The CEP for raids over Europe was something like 10 miles.
The AA guns shot down more bombers than fighters IIRC.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Speaking of horrendously poor accuracy the British Royal Air Force
calculated that only 1% of their bombs landed within a mile of the
intended target. I once met a RAF WW2 navigator/bomb aimer who said some
nights their designated target was the letter \"R\" - meaning where R was
within the word BERLIN on their charts. He later flew with Mosquito
pathfinders using Gee/Oboe navaids and H2S RADAR so although his bomb
placement improved he seriously doubted the accuracy of main force that
followed.

piglet

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 3:57:33 PM UTC-6, erichp...@hotmail.com wrote:

On 24/01/2023 9:04 pm, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 2:23:58 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:15:21 AM UTC-5, Jeff Layman
wrote:
On 24/01/2023 15:08, Dean Hoffman wrote:
I was watching the show Mail Call. It talks of anything
military. Guns, artillery, ships, whatever. The narrator
claimed the first computer might\'ve been on the USS Missouri.
It aimed the guns on the ship. Is there such a thing as the
first computer?
It depends what you mean by \"computer\". Isn\'t an abacus a type
of computer?!

It\'s pretty widely accepted that the first computer - as perhaps
most would use the term - was Colossus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
As you say, you first have to define what you are talking about.

\"the world\'s first programmable, electronic, digital computer\" is
how Wikipedia talks about Colossus. It was not a stored program
computer, being programmed by switches and plugs.

Code breaking drove a branch of computing technology. Another
branch that was also desperately needed in the war, was finding
targeting solutions. I don\'t recall the name, but there was a
computer designed to be airborne, that was pretty interesting. I
can\'t seem to find it on the web. I thought it was WWII vintage and
used rather archaic components like delay lines. Maybe not.

The \"targeting\" solution was done by analog in a gyro stabilized
bombsight, which also took control of the aircraft to fly it steady
and constant speed. The primary sensor was an optical sight, making
the whole idea of it a total piece of crap. Who would have thought
anyone would encounter cloud cover in northern Europe, or that there
would be a requirement for nighttime bombings, and high altitude
drops? Can we say morons? And the product was the culmination of at
least 15 years of development. You can give a moron all the time and
money in the world, and in the end you\'re still left with a moron.
The pre-war doctrine was that B17s in combat box formation were
self-defending, and so could be used for daylight precision bombing.

\'T\'weren\'t so, but it wasn\'t the Sperry or Norden folks\' fault. The
Sperry in particular was a beautiful piece of kit for its day.

That has nothing to do with the horrendously poor accuracy of the bombsight even under ideal conditions. They were lucky to get within miles of the target. They used the bombsight for the A-bomb drops, and both were off target by 2-3 miles. The CEP for raids over Europe was something like 10 miles.
The AA guns shot down more bombers than fighters IIRC.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
Speaking of horrendously poor accuracy the British Royal Air Force
calculated that only 1% of their bombs landed within a mile of the
intended target. I once met a RAF WW2 navigator/bomb aimer who said some
nights their designated target was the letter \"R\" - meaning where R was
within the word BERLIN on their charts. He later flew with Mosquito
pathfinders using Gee/Oboe navaids and H2S RADAR so although his bomb
placement improved he seriously doubted the accuracy of main force that
followed.

piglet

There\'s a little bit here about Operation Starfish. The British set big bonfires away from actual cities to confuse German night bombers. It did work.
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2286276/Extraordinary-story-WW2s-Starfish-Sites-designed-look-like-burning-cities-saved-2-500-lives.html>

 

[RichD]

On January 25, erichp...@hotmail.com wrote:

Speaking of horrendously poor accuracy the British Royal Air Force
calculated that only 1% of their bombs landed within a mile of the
intended target.

But on D Day and afterward, the Luftwaffe was invisible. The most
reasonable explanation is that their industrial sector had been wrecked.

The aerial bombing campaign was effective, evidently.

--
Rich