Film capacitor as power-supply filter

On Saturday, 19 October 2019 15:42:51 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:37:00 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

Steve Lunatic Wilson wrote:

----------------------------


Why measure past the rated voltage? You are never going to operate there.
You simply risk damaging the capacitor for no good reason.

The curve shown in fig. 4 is a generic curve. The actual curves are
different for each capacitor, and depend on variables such as those
described above. So it is impossible to represent all capacitors at once.

You need to also try measuring the capacitor voltage with a constant
current source. That could give valuable new information.



** This fuckwit troll is a pernicious false arguer and incorrigible context shifter.

He is delusional to the extent he literally believes his own bullshit.

Prefect candidate for the "Church of Scientology" don't you think ?

If he ain't one already that is ...



He argues out of emotion rather than reason. I have several anti-fans
here who are dying to show me wrong, and will commit any bogus mental
contortion in that cause.

This is amusing, because I'm really interested in how people reason
toward truth, and especially how they don't.

IME some people seek truth, some want nothing to do with it. The latter are childish time wasters.


NT

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2019-10-20 12:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:04:51 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 20:10:27 -0700, jlarkin wrote:

Unless a part is very expensive, may as well test it to destruction.

With some parts, the first indication of impending breakdown is failure.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nxm7m2q3j3buvc/ExFets.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpc169hj1ilp6xa/
photo01x_exploded_resistors.jpg?dl=0

That resistor pic is actually by Win, but he used my exploder machine.


Nowadays you're supposed to warn people before showing distressing images
like those, given the number of snowflakes there are these days.

If you've been emotionally affected by clicking on the above links, you
can find support here: http://www.im-in-crisis.org/

Linked to from Im-a-sad-wuss.myomy


There. That's the proper way.

Have a good cry and move on.



Scope trigger warning.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2019-10-20 03:44, Steve Wilson wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Unless a part is very expensive, may as well test it to destruction.

Be careful doing that with electrolytics. The process of generating Al2O3
gives off hydrogen gas:

2Al + 3H2O --> Al2O3 + 3H2 (Gas) + 3e

At high rates this can exceed the capacity of the capacitor to reabsorb and
the hydrogen is released outside the capacitor. If the cap is in an enclosed
space, a dangerous buildup of hydrogen gas can provide the basis for an
explosion.

A second problem is high current can cause heating which can boil the water
in the electrolyte. The buildup of steam can rupture the case and result in
an explosion.

I had the unfortunate experience of an electrolytic explosion once. The cap
was failing but I didn't know about it since the unit was in its case. When
the cap blew, it left a dent in the 1/16 inch lid that clearly outlined the
top of the capacitor. The inside of the unit was a mess of electrolyte and
shredded aluminum foil. This was in the old days when the electrolyte was
liquid and would slosh around when shaken. But don't underestimate the power
of a steam explosion, and beware of caps that start to get hot.

Old time electros were known as "confetti generators" for that reason.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2019-10-20 11:15, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 01:00:26 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

Steve Wilson wrote:

------------------------

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Unless a part is very expensive, may as well test it to destruction.


** JL has no empathy for small components.

Few EEs do.

One must die so the many may live. I think Spock said that.

I expect he was riffing of Caiaphas:

John 11:49-51: But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year,
said to them, "You know nothing at all; you do not understand that it is
expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the
whole nation should not perish."
He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year
he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 16:59:46 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2019-10-20 12:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:04:51 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 20:10:27 -0700, jlarkin wrote:

Unless a part is very expensive, may as well test it to destruction.

With some parts, the first indication of impending breakdown is failure.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nxm7m2q3j3buvc/ExFets.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpc169hj1ilp6xa/
photo01x_exploded_resistors.jpg?dl=0

That resistor pic is actually by Win, but he used my exploder machine.


Nowadays you're supposed to warn people before showing distressing images
like those, given the number of snowflakes there are these days.

If you've been emotionally affected by clicking on the above links, you
can find support here: http://www.im-in-crisis.org/

Linked to from Im-a-sad-wuss.myomy


There. That's the proper way.

Have a good cry and move on.



Scope trigger warning.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

No, seriously, abs max ratings can be way off in either direction.
Like schottky diodes rated for 2 volts max reverse. Or DPAK mosfets
rated for 160 amps and 160 watts.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Phil Allison]

Nutcase Thornton hiding behind tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

IME some people seek truth, some want nothing to do with it.
The latter are childish time wasters.


NT

** Then there are desperate egomaniacs like Thornton, who try to bury the truth under huge piles of bullshit invented for that purpose.

Such people are pure evil.



...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

------------------------------------------

Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.

** A pretentious claim that simply has no basis in reality.

JL loves to post them, passes for wisdom on planet Larkin.



...... Phil

 

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 16:21:12 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

------------------------------------------


Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.



** A pretentious claim that simply has no basis in reality.

JL loves to post them, passes for wisdom on planet Larkin.

Design something that works. Post it here.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

---------------------------------------

Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.



** A pretentious claim that simply has no basis in reality.

JL loves to post them, passes for wisdom on planet Larkin.



Design something that works. Post it here.

** How to get rid of 10 pounds of ugly fat ?

Cut your head off.



..... Phil

 

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 16:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

---------------------------------------



Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.



** A pretentious claim that simply has no basis in reality.

JL loves to post them, passes for wisdom on planet Larkin.



Design something that works. Post it here.



** How to get rid of 10 pounds of ugly fat ?

Cut your head off.



.... Phil

This group is like a tennis group where nobody plays tennis, or a
fishing group where nobody has ever fished.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

---------------------------------------

Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.



** A pretentious claim that simply has no basis in reality.

JL loves to post them, passes for wisdom on planet Larkin.



Design something that works. Post it here.



** How to get rid of 10 pounds of ugly fat ?

Cut your head off.


This group is like a tennis group where nobody plays tennis, or a
fishing group where nobody has ever fished.

** More of JL's fake wisdom plus a context shift = complete nonsense.



FYI to all:

In nearly 20 years I have not seen even ONE original design posted here, complete with schematics, photos and justifications for each component choice and topology used. So I am not gonna be the one to break with that grate tradition.

Cos that is NOT what this NG is for.

Folk, mostly trolls and students, come here with design QUESTIONS riddled with ambiguities and false assumptions.

They get a lot of terrible replies and few good ones - but are unable to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Most never come back - good.

I've done numerous project and other special designs, 8 of them published in Australia's leading electronic magazine for payment. Then the mag collapsed in 2002.

Me let JL and his ilk pour scorn and invent fake issues with them ?

Not Bloody Likely.



...... Phil

 

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 19:25:06 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

---------------------------------------


Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.



** A pretentious claim that simply has no basis in reality.

JL loves to post them, passes for wisdom on planet Larkin.



Design something that works. Post it here.



** How to get rid of 10 pounds of ugly fat ?

Cut your head off.


This group is like a tennis group where nobody plays tennis, or a
fishing group where nobody has ever fished.


** More of JL's fake wisdom plus a context shift = complete nonsense.



FYI to all:

In nearly 20 years I have not seen even ONE original design posted here, complete with schematics, photos and justifications for each component choice and topology used. So I am not gonna be the one to break with that grate tradition.

I've posted scores of original schematics, and scores of photos of
real stuff I've designed, and scores of Spice sims. Others have
posted, freely given away, as many. Have you seen Win's HV amps, or
Phil Hobbs low-noise circuits, posted recently?

I don't furnish detailed "justifications"; I assume that competent
engineers can look at a schematic and figure out what's going on, and
improve any idea that they want to.

You are complaining that posters here do not treat you like a beginner
that needs everything explained. Guilty. There is a Basics group for
beginners.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

-------------------------------------------

Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.


** A pretentious claim that simply has no basis in reality.

JL loves to post them, passes for wisdom on planet Larkin.



Design something that works. Post it here.



** How to get rid of 10 pounds of ugly fat ?

Cut your head off.

** That one went over JL's head like a Scud missile ....

This group is like a tennis group where nobody plays tennis, or a
fishing group where nobody has ever fished.


** More of JL's fake wisdom plus a context shift = complete nonsense.



FYI to all:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

In nearly 20 years I have not seen even ONE original design posted here, complete with schematics, photos and justifications for each component choice and topology used. So I am not gonna be the one to break with that great tradition.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I've posted scores of original schematics,

** LOL - hand drawn fragments of ideas are not "designs".

You asked for a "DESIGN" - fuckhead.

Published DESIGNS contain all the things I mentioned and more.

What project have you had published and been paid for?

Care to post a link?

You *maliciously* snipped all reference to the ones I had published.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

and scores of photos of real stuff I've designed,

** Again, no-one can sensibly judge a design from a pic of some a PCB.

and scores of Spice sims.

** Nothing faintly like a "design".

Sims are all 99% worthless.

Others have posted, freely given away, as many.

** But no complete designs one could sensibly construct.

Have you seen Win's HV amps, or
Phil Hobbs low-noise circuits, posted recently?

** Spice listing are NOT designs.

Win's HV lab amp looks like a nightmare.

Plus, the complete nonsense he posted about a on-line design that was in fact NOT mine was absurd. I shot it to pieces and so he ignored me.

Wot an utter ass.


> I don't furnish detailed "justifications";

** Cos you haven't got nay.

The reasoning behind a design decision is usually non obvious to outsiders and crucial - cos it may be very good or very bad. A simple fact JLs raging ASD and pig arrogance prevents him from knowing.

The fool has no credible theory of thought - you see.

I assume that competent
engineers can look at a schematic and figure out what's going on, and
improve any idea that they want to.

** That barking mad idea is exactly what I am saying is 100% WRONG !!

Especially false if you were so stupid as to post it on a NG full of nasty, incompetent, bullshitting trolls - like sci.electronics.design.

You are complaining that posters here do not treat you like a beginner

** I am of course complaining of the direct opposite.

JL just goes on proving, over and over, what a thoroughly nasty asshole and scumbag he really is.




..... Phil

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:51:12 PM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 19:25:06 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

---------------------------------------


Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.



** A pretentious claim that simply has no basis in reality.

JL loves to post them, passes for wisdom on planet Larkin.

Design something that works. Post it here.

And have it pirated by John Larkin?

** How to get rid of 10 pounds of ugly fat ?

Cut your head off.

This group is like a tennis group where nobody plays tennis, or a
fishing group where nobody has ever fished.

** More of JL's fake wisdom plus a context shift = complete nonsense.

He does a lot of that, and imagines that nobody notices.

FYI to all:

In nearly 20 years I have not seen even ONE original design posted here, complete with schematics, photos and justifications for each component choice and topology used. So I am not gonna be the one to break with that grate tradition.

I've posted scores of original schematics, and scores of photos of
real stuff I've designed, and scores of Spice sims. Others have
posted, freely given away, as many. Have you seen Win's HV amps, or
Phil Hobbs low-noise circuits, posted recently?

I don't furnish detailed "justifications"; I assume that competent
engineers can look at a schematic and figure out what's going on, and
improve any idea that they want to.

The fact that John Larkin isn't great at detailed justification may have more to do with his recitence in that area.

You are complaining that posters here do not treat you like a beginner
that needs everything explained. Guilty. There is a Basics group for
beginners.

Nobody is going to treat Phil Allison as a beginner. He's not complaining about not having his hand held, but rather the absence of proper documentation.

He may be asking a bit much. Proper documentation is bulky.

Sloman A.W., Buggs P., Molloy J., and Stewart D. “A microcontroller-based driver to stabilise the temperature of an optical stage to 1mK in the range 4C to 38C, using a Peltier heat pump and a thermistor sensor” Measurement Science and Technology, 7 1653-64 (1996)

was ten pages long, but still includes apologies for incomplete documentation of the circuits involved. It now has 24 citation - only two of them mine - so it was probably detailed enough to be useful.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 5:04:00 AM UTC+11, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, 19 October 2019 15:42:51 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:37:00 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

Steve Lunatic Wilson wrote:

----------------------------


Why measure past the rated voltage? You are never going to operate there.
You simply risk damaging the capacitor for no good reason.

The curve shown in fig. 4 is a generic curve. The actual curves are
different for each capacitor, and depend on variables such as those
described above. So it is impossible to represent all capacitors at once.

You need to also try measuring the capacitor voltage with a constant
current source. That could give valuable new information.



** This fuckwit troll is a pernicious false arguer and incorrigible context shifter.

He is delusional to the extent he literally believes his own bullshit.

Prefect candidate for the "Church of Scientology" don't you think ?

If he ain't one already that is ...



He argues out of emotion rather than reason. I have several anti-fans
here who are dying to show me wrong, and will commit any bogus mental
contortion in that cause.

This is amusing, because I'm really interested in how people reason
toward truth, and especially how they don't.

IME some people seek truth, some want nothing to do with it. The latter are childish time wasters.

That's NT - and out of his own mouth.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 5:13:26 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:03:56 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, 19 October 2019 15:42:51 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:37:00 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

Steve Lunatic Wilson wrote:

----------------------------


Why measure past the rated voltage? You are never going to operate there.
You simply risk damaging the capacitor for no good reason.

The curve shown in fig. 4 is a generic curve. The actual curves are
different for each capacitor, and depend on variables such as those
described above. So it is impossible to represent all capacitors at once.

You need to also try measuring the capacitor voltage with a constant
current source. That could give valuable new information.



** This fuckwit troll is a pernicious false arguer and incorrigible context shifter.

He is delusional to the extent he literally believes his own bullshit.

Prefect candidate for the "Church of Scientology" don't you think ?

If he ain't one already that is ...



He argues out of emotion rather than reason. I have several anti-fans
here who are dying to show me wrong, and will commit any bogus mental
contortion in that cause.

This is amusing, because I'm really interested in how people reason
toward truth, and especially how they don't.

IME some people seek truth, some want nothing to do with it. The latter are childish time wasters.

Truth, in this newsgroup, is designing electronic circuits that work.

There's an element of explaining why they work, which John Larkin discounts, because he isn't very good at it.

Explaining why particular circuits don't work - or don't work very well - is another aspect of the group's activities. There John Larkin plays an even less prominent role.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Allison]

Bill Sloman wrote:

-------------------

Nobody is going to treat Phil Allison as a beginner.

** Happens here daily by Win, John and Phil H.

The Three Stooges.

He's not complaining about not having his hand held,
but rather the absence of proper documentation.

** Not complaining about anything like that.

Just the ingenuous nature of JLs malicious trap request.

He may be asking a bit much. Proper documentation is bulky.

** Have you *never* seen a published project in a magazine or on line ?

Ones I did for EA magazine consisted of 2 to 3 thousand words, colour pics, a PCB pattern and component layout, specifications list, block diagrams and of course a full schematic with parts list and where to get any oddball parts.

A prototype had to be supplied too, so the mag's staff could see that it worked and take their own pics.

Enough info was needed for a hobbyist and others to build one and for parts dealers to make up kits. The cost of such had to be less than any similar commercial offering - a major hurdle.

One was forbidden to use exotic, hard to get parts or expect builders to own more than a DMM.

The article had to interesting reading in it own right, to help sell the magazine when sitting on seller stands.

I seriously doubt any the Three Stooges would have a clue how to do the same.



..... Phil






..... Phil








..... Phil

Sloman A.W., Buggs P., Molloy J., and Stewart D. “A microcontroller-based driver to stabilise the temperature of an optical stage to 1mK in the range 4C to 38C, using a Peltier heat pump and a thermistor sensor” Measurement Science and Technology, 7 1653-64 (1996)

was ten pages long, but still includes apologies for incomplete documentation of the circuits involved. It now has 24 citation - only two of them mine - so it was probably detailed enough to be useful.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Allison]

Phil Allison wrote:

-------------------

** Not complaining about anything like that.

Just the ingenuous nature of JLs malicious trap request.

** Ooops - should be "disingenuous" .

 

[Steve Wilson]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

The issue was series strings of electrolytic caps, where the total
supply voltage is more than the rated voltage of the caps. Film caps
can blow up in that situation. What do lytics do?

Answer: their IV curves make them safely self-equalize.

How does self-equalization work, and why does the I-V curve have to be
exponential?

 

[Steve Wilson]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 07:44:01 -0000 (UTC), Steve Wilson <no@spam.com
wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Unless a part is very expensive, may as well test it to destruction.

Be careful doing that with electrolytics. The process of generating
Al2O3 gives off hydrogen gas:

2Al + 3H2O --> Al2O3 + 3H2 (Gas) + 3e

At high rates this can exceed the capacity of the capacitor to reabsorb
and the hydrogen is released outside the capacitor. If the cap is in an
enclosed space, a dangerous buildup of hydrogen gas can provide the
basis for an explosion.

Conservation of energy says that the explosion won't liberate more
joules than I pushed into the cap. None of my bench supplies can
deliver explosive amounts of energy in any reasonable time.

My cap test used a wonderful old HP 6212A power supply with the
current limit set to maybe 10 mA. The cap never got warm.

I was replying to your statement "Unless a part is very expensive, may as
well test it to destruction."

Be careful doing that with electrolytics.