Fanless or near fanless PC 2014 ? (sub 5 watts)

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Monday, September 8, 2014 12:25:21 AM UTC, Skybuck Flying wrote:

But please do share.. you mentioned a "simple" water cooling heat sink ? Do

tell us more... why would this be "simple" ?



The idea of leakage while the system is running is enough to "scare me

stiff" lol... get it ? like the pinball machine lol "scared stiff"



Bye,

Skybuck

Simple as I made it from stuff I had lying around. A couple of pieces of copper flashing. One piece shaped by hammering it over a bit of wood. A couple of pieces of copper tubing . All soldered together to make a hollow piece with the tubing to let water in and out. An aquarium pump and a large peanut butter jar. The pump took water from the jar and delivered it to the heat sink and then the water went back to the jar. No radiator or milled passages in the heat sink.

I did this at least six year ago so do not remember the details very well. It was a lot quieter than the heat sink with a fan. You could probably design it as a thermal siphon and have it dead quiet.

Dan

 

[rickman]

On 9/8/2014 4:13 PM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 12:25:21 AM UTC, Skybuck Flying wrote:





But please do share.. you mentioned a "simple" water cooling heat sink ? Do

tell us more... why would this be "simple" ?



The idea of leakage while the system is running is enough to "scare me

stiff" lol... get it ? like the pinball machine lol "scared stiff"



Bye,

Skybuck

Simple as I made it from stuff I had lying around. A couple of pieces of copper flashing. One piece shaped by hammering it over a bit of wood. A couple of pieces of copper tubing . All soldered together to make a hollow piece with the tubing to let water in and out. An aquarium pump and a large peanut butter jar. The pump took water from the jar and delivered it to the heat sink and then the water went back to the jar. No radiator or milled passages in the heat sink.

I did this at least six year ago so do not remember the details very well. It was a lot quieter than the heat sink with a fan. You could probably design it as a thermal siphon and have it dead quiet.

Thermal siphon = Heat pipe

--

Rick

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Monday, September 8, 2014 8:44:43 PM UTC, rickman wrote

Thermal siphon = Heat pipe


Rick

Not really. A heat pipe is a tube which has some liquid in it. At the heat source the liquid changes to gas. The gas goes to the cool end of the tube where it condenses. The condensed liquid is transported by capillary
action to the hot end of the tube.

A thermal siphon is all liquid. The liquid at the warm end expands and rises to the cool end where it gets denser. It then goes down a separate tube to the hot end.

Heat pipe one tube. Thermal siphon two tubes.

Dan

 

[rickman]

On 9/8/2014 9:33 PM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 8:44:43 PM UTC, rickman wrote




Thermal siphon = Heat pipe


Rick


Not really. A heat pipe is a tube which has some liquid in it. At the heat source the liquid changes to gas. The gas goes to the cool end of the tube where it condenses. The condensed liquid is transported by capillary
action to the hot end of the tube.

A thermal siphon is all liquid. The liquid at the warm end expands and rises to the cool end where it gets denser. It then goes down a separate tube to the hot end.

Heat pipe one tube. Thermal siphon two tubes.

Yes, you are correct.

The main difference I believe is that the heat tube works pretty well.
How well does the thermal siphon work? I thought about trying this once
but I couldn't make myself believe it would move much water. I also had
trouble figuring out how it would get started. I figured the heat
source or the radiator needed to be in one of the riser tubes, best if
one is in each. If the source and sink are both equally positioned over
the two risers there would be equal pressure and not much flow if any.
Will random fluctuations get it started? Will longer risers make it
work better?

--

Rick

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

Den tirsdag den 9. september 2014 03.33.18 UTC+2 skrev dca...@krl.org:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 8:44:43 PM UTC, rickman wrote









Thermal siphon = Heat pipe





Rick





Not really. A heat pipe is a tube which has some liquid in it. At the heat source the liquid changes to gas. The gas goes to the cool end of the tube where it condenses. The condensed liquid is transported by capillary

action to the hot end of the tube.

the capillary action is really only needed when the pipe isn't vertical

-Lasse

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 2:58:17 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

The main difference I believe is that the heat tube works pretty well.

How well does the thermal siphon work? I thought about trying this once

but I couldn't make myself believe it would move much water. I also had

trouble figuring out how it would get started. I figured the heat

source or the radiator needed to be in one of the riser tubes, best if

one is in each. If the source and sink are both equally positioned over

the two risers there would be equal pressure and not much flow if any.

Will random fluctuations get it started? Will longer risers make it

work better?


Rick

Thermal siphons also work well or at least well enough for many things. No one ever said that a thermal siphon needs or should be symmetrical.

Dan

 

[rickman]

On 9/9/2014 10:50 PM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 2:58:17 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

Thermal siphons also work well or at least well enough for many things. No one ever said that a thermal siphon needs or should be symmetrical.

I'm asking about the symmetry. I gave thought to building one and
realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to
give a push to the initial flow. I believe it is the difference in
pressure in the two columns that create the flow so that taller columns
should work better. If I ever get back to cooling a desktop I may give
this a try.

--

Rick

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

Dan

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 00:48:54 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> Gave us:

On 9/9/2014 10:50 PM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 2:58:17 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

Thermal siphons also work well or at least well enough for many things. No one ever said that a thermal siphon needs or should be symmetrical.

I'm asking about the symmetry. I gave thought to building one and
realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to
give a push to the initial flow. I believe it is the difference in
pressure in the two columns that create the flow so that taller columns
should work better. If I ever get back to cooling a desktop I may give
this a try.

Just add a peltier plate to it.


<http://www.amazon.com/SODIAL-Beverage-Precision-Pollution--Power-Consumption/dp/B00LHKTFCQ/>

 

[rickman]

On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

--

Rick

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[rickman]

On 9/12/2014 6:25 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

Until the flow has started, which pipe is the hot pipe?

--

Rick

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On 12 Sep 2014 22:25:37 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> Gave us:

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

Reminds me of Rutger Hauer making "pattern".

Well... the machine they used anyway.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0631300/?ref_=tt_ep_ep3

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:37:07 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> Gave us:

Until the flow has started, which pipe is the hot pipe?

Usually, the esophagus.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/12/2014 6:25 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

Until the flow has started, which pipe is the hot pipe?

the one that initially goes up the steepest.

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[josephkk]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:37:07 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/12/2014 6:25 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

Until the flow has started, which pipe is the hot pipe?

The one headed up from the heat source. Density change starts the flow.

?-)

 

[rickman]

On 9/12/2014 9:10 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/12/2014 6:25 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

Until the flow has started, which pipe is the hot pipe?

the one that initially goes up the steepest.

And if they both go straight up? That was my point. The fluid circuit
needs to be designed with an asymmetry to assure that the thing will
start up ok.

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 9/12/2014 9:18 PM, josephkk wrote:

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:37:07 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/12/2014 6:25 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

Until the flow has started, which pipe is the hot pipe?

The one headed up from the heat source. Density change starts the flow.

Ok, I see. One pipe is "up" from the heat source and the other pipe is
"down" from the cold sink. So how does the unit tell which I intended
to be up and which is down?

--

Rick

 

On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 03:04:04 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/12/2014 9:10 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/12/2014 6:25 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

Until the flow has started, which pipe is the hot pipe?

the one that initially goes up the steepest.

And if they both go straight up? That was my point. The fluid circuit
needs to be designed with an asymmetry to assure that the thing will
start up ok.

Sounds like you're trying to design-out metastability.

 

[josephkk]

On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 03:05:25 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/12/2014 9:18 PM, josephkk wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:37:07 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/12/2014 6:25 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-09-12, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/10/2014 7:50 AM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 4:48:54 AM UTC, rickman wrote:

I gave thought to building one and

realized it may need to have the heating and cooling sinks arranged to

give a push to the initial flow.


Rick

It needs to have the heating and cooling arranged so that it gives a push at all times. Longer tubes do help as well as bigger diameter tubes.

I'm talking about getting it started. Just like an induction motor has
a small number of coils which give the initial push to a stationary
rotor, the heat source and cold source need to be a little offset so one
chimney fills with the warm fluid and the other fills with the cold
fluid. Otherwise it may not start up. But once in motion the hot and
cold fluid will obviously follow the flow and continue the siphon.

As long as the hot pipe goes up at the start, and more than it does down, it will start.

Until the flow has started, which pipe is the hot pipe?

The one headed up from the heat source. Density change starts the flow.

Ok, I see. One pipe is "up" from the heat source and the other pipe is
"down" from the cold sink. So how does the unit tell which I intended
to be up and which is down?

The up pipe is top on both heat exchangers.

?-)