fake "body fat" scales from Jaycar

[Mike]

Somebody is perpetrating a fraud on consumers here.

I ordered a set of those "body fat" weight-scales from Jaycar.
The idea is that by passing a small high-frequency current through
the body, you can measure fat/water proportion, and compensate
for hydration level.
But the readings looked wrong. So I drank a lot of water, and found
the "% body fat" reading went up, not down! More tests confirmed that
the fat reading is based solely on weight, and the age/height/sex data
that you enter. The electric fat reading is faked.

This is the old-model "satrue sbf-2003a". Is the new one any different?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM7249

The website is carefully-worded, but the packaging clearly claims that
it electrically measures fat.

I suppose Jaycar will refund it, but this makes me mad. Maybe they
will be shocked at my news, and initiate a product recall. Yeah, pigs
might fly - or am I too cynical? Advice please?

(BTW, it was a dumb impulse buy. I should just measure my waistline.
Am trying to reverse the middle-age spread.)

 

[David L. Jones]

Mike wrote:

Somebody is perpetrating a fraud on consumers here.

I ordered a set of those "body fat" weight-scales from Jaycar.
The idea is that by passing a small high-frequency current through
the body, you can measure fat/water proportion, and compensate
for hydration level.
But the readings looked wrong. So I drank a lot of water, and found
the "% body fat" reading went up, not down! More tests confirmed that
the fat reading is based solely on weight, and the age/height/sex data
that you enter. The electric fat reading is faked.

This is the old-model "satrue sbf-2003a". Is the new one any different?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM7249

The website is carefully-worded, but the packaging clearly claims that
it electrically measures fat.

I suppose Jaycar will refund it, but this makes me mad. Maybe they
will be shocked at my news, and initiate a product recall. Yeah, pigs
might fly - or am I too cynical? Advice please?

(BTW, it was a dumb impulse buy. I should just measure my waistline.
Am trying to reverse the middle-age spread.)

Can you actually put a scope on the conductive feet strips and see
anything?

The Jaycar wording is:

"Do you know how much excess body fat you are carrying, or are you one
of the lucky few who are within healthy limits. Find out with our 'Body
Fat Scales'. Ordinary scales can only measure body weight, they can't
give you any indication of the amount of body fat you are actually
carrying, and it's body fat that counts. These scales can be calibrated
for use by 8 different people and requires just their height & sex to
be entered & stored. The scales can also calculate your body fat
percentage if all the relevant data is entered."

This clearly says that body fat can be *calculated* if you enter the
relative data. Nothing about measurement at all.
Although if it's on the box then that's a different story.

If there ain't no signal coming out the feet strips, take it back.
Or just take it back anyway! :->

The professional models are quite good and are based on lots of
research, but all these cheap ones that have flooded that market in the
last couple of years are little more than toys.

Dave

 

[Lord Garth]

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139456278.859412.270240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

The Jaycar wording is:

"Do you know how much excess body fat you are carrying, or are you one
of the lucky few who are within healthy limits. Find out with our 'Body
Fat Scales'. Ordinary scales can only measure body weight, they can't
give you any indication of the amount of body fat you are actually
carrying, and it's body fat that counts. These scales can be calibrated
for use by 8 different people and requires just their height & sex to
be entered & stored. The scales can also calculate your body fat
percentage if all the relevant data is entered."

This clearly says that body fat can be *calculated*

But not by what... ;-)

 

[Ross Marchant]

"Mike" <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43eaa188$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

Somebody is perpetrating a fraud on consumers here.

I ordered a set of those "body fat" weight-scales from Jaycar.
The idea is that by passing a small high-frequency current through
the body, you can measure fat/water proportion, and compensate
for hydration level.
But the readings looked wrong. So I drank a lot of water, and found
the "% body fat" reading went up, not down! More tests confirmed that
the fat reading is based solely on weight, and the age/height/sex data
that you enter. The electric fat reading is faked.

This is the old-model "satrue sbf-2003a". Is the new one any different?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM7249

The website is carefully-worded, but the packaging clearly claims that
it electrically measures fat.

I suppose Jaycar will refund it, but this makes me mad. Maybe they
will be shocked at my news, and initiate a product recall. Yeah, pigs
might fly - or am I too cynical? Advice please?

(BTW, it was a dumb impulse buy. I should just measure my waistline.
Am trying to reverse the middle-age spread.)

Like the electronic scales I bought from ebay.

I thought they were really accurate for a while because if one got off and
on a few times the scales still came up with the same mass i.e. 76.8kg
76.8kg 76.8kg etc etc until I discovered it just stored the previous reading
in memory and if the next reading was within 0.5 kg the scales would simply
display the previous reading.

Ross

 

[The Real Andy]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:49:48 +1000, "Ross Marchant"
<rossm@NOexceltech.SPAMcom.au> wrote:

"Mike" <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43eaa188$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
Somebody is perpetrating a fraud on consumers here.

I ordered a set of those "body fat" weight-scales from Jaycar.
The idea is that by passing a small high-frequency current through
the body, you can measure fat/water proportion, and compensate
for hydration level.
But the readings looked wrong. So I drank a lot of water, and found
the "% body fat" reading went up, not down! More tests confirmed that
the fat reading is based solely on weight, and the age/height/sex data
that you enter. The electric fat reading is faked.

This is the old-model "satrue sbf-2003a". Is the new one any different?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM7249

The website is carefully-worded, but the packaging clearly claims that
it electrically measures fat.

I suppose Jaycar will refund it, but this makes me mad. Maybe they
will be shocked at my news, and initiate a product recall. Yeah, pigs
might fly - or am I too cynical? Advice please?

(BTW, it was a dumb impulse buy. I should just measure my waistline.
Am trying to reverse the middle-age spread.)

Like the electronic scales I bought from ebay.

I thought they were really accurate for a while because if one got off and
on a few times the scales still came up with the same mass i.e. 76.8kg
76.8kg 76.8kg etc etc until I discovered it just stored the previous reading
in memory and if the next reading was within 0.5 kg the scales would simply
display the previous reading.

Ross

If you want a decent set of personal scales, the buy the AND uc321

http://www.andmercury.com.au/scales/uc321.htm

Cause they can be calibrated and do show real weight. BE prepared to
spen $300 AU dollars plus though. IF you dont want to spend that
money, then dont complain.

 

[GB]

Mike <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in news:43eaa188$1
@quokka.wn.com.au:

Somebody is perpetrating a fraud on consumers here.

No they're not. Google for phrases like "mere puff" and
"Carbolic Smokeball Company". You've got Buckley's of
demonstrating that you bought in to anything other than
entertainment. Take Jaycar's reputation, the wording of
the advertisement (what was written on the box is irrelevant,
you purchased on the strength of the puf^H^H^Hadvertisement,
not the box). You know that line about snowballs and hell?
That's where you stand. This is first year undergraduate law,
and not a smidgin more!


GB

 

[Fred]

Mike wrote:

Somebody is perpetrating a fraud on consumers here.

I ordered a set of those "body fat" weight-scales from Jaycar.
The idea is that by passing a small high-frequency current through
the body, you can measure fat/water proportion, and compensate
for hydration level.
But the readings looked wrong. So I drank a lot of water, and found
the "% body fat" reading went up, not down! More tests confirmed
that the fat reading is based solely on weight, and the
age/height/sex data that you enter. The electric fat reading is faked.

This is the old-model "satrue sbf-2003a". Is the new one any
different? http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM7249

The website is carefully-worded, but the packaging clearly claims that
it electrically measures fat.

I suppose Jaycar will refund it, but this makes me mad. Maybe they
will be shocked at my news, and initiate a product recall. Yeah, pigs
might fly - or am I too cynical? Advice please?

(BTW, it was a dumb impulse buy. I should just measure my waistline.
Am trying to reverse the middle-age spread.)

If you are taking steps to lose weight then a set of scales is necessary to
monitor your progress. It not so important that the scales are perfectly
accurate but they can help monitor *changes* in you body fat. This shows you
how successful your weight loss program is. Gives you an idea if you are
heading in the right direction.
I weigh myself at the same time each day, wearing the same clothing because
my weight varies so much through the course of a day.
Here is a bit of a guide that might help you to use those scales.
http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/bodyfatscales.html

 

[Lord-Data]

I've not used the Jaycar one, but a similar model Target sells ..

It actually *CALCULATES* your BMI (Body Mass Index) which is your body fat
percetage, and only needs weight, height, sex and age to do so. The
electrical part measures Hydration levels, which if its anything like the
Target scales, it should also show.

Mine flash up weight, BMI, Hydration %

The Hydration % is what it measures electronically, the BMI is calculated.
The wording on the website even implies this also.

"Mike" <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43eaa188$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

Somebody is perpetrating a fraud on consumers here.

I ordered a set of those "body fat" weight-scales from Jaycar.
The idea is that by passing a small high-frequency current through
the body, you can measure fat/water proportion, and compensate
for hydration level.
But the readings looked wrong. So I drank a lot of water, and found
the "% body fat" reading went up, not down! More tests confirmed that
the fat reading is based solely on weight, and the age/height/sex data
that you enter. The electric fat reading is faked.

This is the old-model "satrue sbf-2003a". Is the new one any different?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM7249

The website is carefully-worded, but the packaging clearly claims that
it electrically measures fat.

I suppose Jaycar will refund it, but this makes me mad. Maybe they
will be shocked at my news, and initiate a product recall. Yeah, pigs
might fly - or am I too cynical? Advice please?

(BTW, it was a dumb impulse buy. I should just measure my waistline.
Am trying to reverse the middle-age spread.)

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.consumers on Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:26:56 +1100
Lord-Data <webmaster@vidguide.com> wrote:

I've not used the Jaycar one, but a similar model Target sells ..

It actually *CALCULATES* your BMI (Body Mass Index) which is your body fat
percetage, and only needs weight, height, sex and age to do so. The

Nitpick - the BMI is no such thing.

It is the old height weight charts under another name, with no
possibility of range based on body type.

Zebee

 

[David L. Jones]

Lord-Data wrote:

I've not used the Jaycar one, but a similar model Target sells ..

It actually *CALCULATES* your BMI (Body Mass Index) which is your body fat
percetage, and only needs weight, height, sex and age to do so. The
electrical part measures Hydration levels, which if its anything like the
Target scales, it should also show.

Mine flash up weight, BMI, Hydration %

The Hydration % is what it measures electronically, the BMI is calculated.
The wording on the website even implies this also.

Hydration % isn't the same as Body Fat %, and BMI is essentially
worthless.

All of these cheap devices are nothing but toys, only good for weight
measurement.
If you want true body fat % you have to spend some $$$ for a more
professional unit, and prefereably one with handgrips too so it can
take measurements from different points..

Dave

 

[Mike]

Michael C wrote:

Actually these scales must be doing something because they don't work if
you've got shoes on.

Quite right, they do have electrical sensors. But the reading is faked.

My guess is that the hardware was designed to do it properly, but didn't
work, so they did a software "fix" to fake it. But thats just speculation.

 

[Mike]

The Real Andy wrote:

Cause they can be calibrated and do show real weight. BE prepared to
spen $300 AU dollars plus though. IF you dont want to spend that
money, then dont complain.

Sure the accurate ones need calibration, and are expensive.
Most people just want bathroom scales that are reasonably
*consistent*, and thats much easier.

So I should have been suspicious of the $50 price tag?
The same day I ordered a DVD-player with MPEG-4 for the
same price, and it works fine. It is much more complex
than a set of scales, and includes components of considerably
higher precision. All from China, of course.

 

[Mike]

David L. Jones wrote:

Can you actually put a scope on the conductive feet strips and see
anything?

It will give an error if you wear shoes, so it does something.

This clearly says that body fat can be *calculated* if you enter the
relative data. Nothing about measurement at all.
Although if it's on the box then that's a different story.

yes, and yes. The website is careful, so I assume jaycar knows,
but they havn't changed the packaging.

If there ain't no signal coming out the feet strips, take it back.
Or just take it back anyway! :-

Oh I am. I might try the $90 model, and exchange if its any good.
I'll watch out for the fake consistency that Ross mentioned too.
e.g. weigh myself, pick up a known weight, and try again.

The professional models are quite good and are based on lots of
research, but all these cheap ones that have flooded that market in the
last couple of years are little more than toys.

The thing with this one is that is actively deceptive. And they appear
to know it. Its cheaper to give a few refunds, than to change the labels
and manuals, I guess.

 

[The Real Andy]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:44:48 +1000, "Ross Marchant"
<rossm@NOexceltech.SPAMcom.au> wrote:

"The Real Andy" <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote

snip

I suggest only a fat fuck will complain. I am
getting kinda fat these days, but i dont need any toy to tell me. Get
a life you dickhead, if you are stupid enough to beleive it then you
deserve to be ripped off.

AHAHAHA what a hypocrite.

P.S. Don't believe your missus when she says she doesn't mind the gut.

At least i am still sub 100kg, not overly fat for a 6' lad. It still
does not make me stupid enough to buy tele-trader fat scales.

Sounds like you are worried cause your missus cant see you tiny penis
underneath your fat rolls

 

[GB]

The Real Andy <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote in
news:4imou1d6l2rpa3mq1v953gjhjqa57mn16d@4ax.com:

When you can find me a reasonably well machined, accurate cheap

No no! You get to choose any two, not all three!

GB

 

[Michael C]

"Mike" <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43ec2c75@quokka.wn.com.au...

Quite right, they do have electrical sensors. But the reading is faked.

My guess is that the hardware was designed to do it properly, but didn't
work, so they did a software "fix" to fake it. But thats just speculation.

As a comparison, what are the reading you got? Mine was 83.2kgs, 187cm and
27% fat.

Michael

 

[Mike]

GB wrote:

Now that's just out and out cynical. You bought junk from a
business that is widely known for buying up cheap junk

I guess I'm learning. So jaycar are like "Red Dot" or Oakley Electronics?

that you're so surprised that you didn't get a precision instrument?

I'm not at all surprised at the poor precision. Its about +/- 400g for
weight. If it came anywhere near that for fat%, I'd be happy. The claim
is 0.5% precision. Readout is to the 1/10%.

 

[David L. Jones]

GB wrote:

Mike <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in news:43ec7c96
@quokka.wn.com.au:
GB wrote:
Now that's just out and out cynical. You bought junk from a
business that is widely known for buying up cheap junk
I guess I'm learning. So jaycar are like "Red Dot" or Oakley Electronics?

Jaycar are like "The Reject Shop" or "Everything's $2". A
substantial (and growing) portion of their business involves
buying up whatever is (1) vaguely electronics related and (2)
cheap from distress sales, dodgy importers, etc and on selling
it to their retail customers. That portion of the business
has a constantly rotating stock that, once sold, you'll probably
not see again. They've probably got a container load of these
scales to shift, and when they're gone, they're gone. (Of course,
I think the exception to the rule is in the 'Aura Interactor'
audio/physical feedback things. I think they got a whole boat-
load of those, they've been pushing them for years!)

I love those Aura Interactor things! We extract the shaker mechanism
and use it in all sorts of custom built vibration test equipment for
geophysical gear. Very useful!

Dave

 

[Peter Parker]

"Mike" <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43ec30eb$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

David L. Jones wrote:

Can you actually put a scope on the conductive feet strips and see
anything?

It will give an error if you wear shoes, so it does something.

So it won't work with an open circuit.

Has anyone with one tried:

1a. soaking your feet in a saltwater solution before jumping onto the scales
(resistance)
1b. using the scales before and after jogging (resistance)
2. putting a thin bit of rubber between your feet and the scales
(capacitance)
3. tried to simulate the above with resistors and capacitors of various
values

Peter

 

[Ray]

In article <43ed022f$1@news.comindico.com.au>,
g.b@sonicresearch.mailme.org says...

Jaycar are like "The Reject Shop" or "Everything's $2".
8
(Of course,
I think the exception to the rule is in the 'Aura Interactor'
audio/physical feedback things. I think they got a whole boat-
load of those, they've been pushing them for years!)

Terminology correction: Ship-load