F-plug need to be fully tightened?

[Peto]

I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
entering my cable modem.

http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

 

[Steve]

"Peto" <peto@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B1A7EBD9C40B37E1A@unknown.sj.astraweb.com...

I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
entering my cable modem.

http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

Hand tight is sufficient, yes. Its rare I would tighten them up any more
than hand tight for most jobs,

 

[TT_Man]

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

Hand tight is sufficient, yes. Its rare I would tighten them up any more
than hand tight for most jobs,


Yep. a hand job is just the biz.......

 

[Palindrome]

Peto wrote:

I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
entering my cable modem.

http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

Yep, for what you have in mind.

You can also, IIUC, get adapters to go on the end of the F plug and turn
it into "push on". Which will probably give a more reliable result as
"loose hand tight" could very easily turn into "fallen off -lying on the
floor".

--
Sue

 

[Jamie]

TT_Man wrote:

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

Hand tight is sufficient, yes. Its rare I would tighten them up any more
than hand tight for most jobs,



Yep. a hand job is just the biz.......


Man of experience!

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

[GoldIntermetallicEmbrittl]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:30:23 -0400, "Tim Perry"
<timperry@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:

Grease is not commonly used on F connector threads. Some weather tight
models exude a sealer when crimped... but not on the threads.

Not true. There are several cities where the cable contractors followed
the CORRECT methodology of SEALING their fittings with an
anti-oxidant/moisture barrier.

This has NOTHING to do with U/G coax cabling, which has a liquid
sealant layer between the sheath (jacket) and the first braid or foil
layer.

That's the threads, AND the "stinger". From a man hour POV, it is
easier to simply plop a wad of it in the fitting, then the center
conductor as well as the threads get the application. The media does not
damage the connector or ANY fitting it gets mated with.

Cable companies are SUPPOSED to cut back their fittings every ten years
and place a new, properly treated fitting.
THAT is what the original plan called for, and is also what SHOULD BE
practiced. A ten year old uncoated fitting will have far more losses (can
have) than one which has had anti-oxidant treatment after a ten year
span.

So, in a PROPERLY implemented cable system, treatment IS the common
practice and teaching.

Where did I learn this? Cincinnati's Time Warner (formerly CUBE) cable
system. Way back in the early 80's. That was a DUAL system, so every
run was twice the number of fittings. Every hard line run was twice the
number. Dual taps at every node. All sealed from moisture.

 

[Peto]

On Tue 16 Sep08 01:08, GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
<GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement@youdontknowjack.org> wrote in
<news:b2ttc4ph6l9acth9m4de75i9lskcts0bgo@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:30:23 -0400, "Tim Perry"
timperry@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:

Grease is not commonly used on F connector threads. Some weather
tight models exude a sealer when crimped... but not on the
threads.


Not true. There are several cities where the cable contractors
followed the CORRECT methodology of SEALING their fittings
with an anti-oxidant/moisture barrier.

This has NOTHING to do with U/G coax cabling, which has a
liquid sealant layer between the sheath (jacket) and the
first braid or foil layer.

That's the threads, AND the "stinger". From a man hour POV, it
is easier to simply plop a wad of it in the fitting, then the
center conductor as well as the threads get the application.
The media does not damage the connector or ANY fitting it gets
mated with.

Cable companies are SUPPOSED to cut back their fittings every
ten years and place a new, properly treated fitting. THAT is
what the original plan called for, and is also what SHOULD BE
practiced.
A ten year old uncoated fitting will have far more losses (can
have) than one which has had anti-oxidant treatment after a ten
year span.

So, in a PROPERLY implemented cable system, treatment IS the
common practice and teaching.

Where did I learn this? Cincinnati's Time Warner (formerly
CUBE) cable system. Way back in the early 80's. That was a
DUAL system, so every run was twice the number of fittings.
Every hard line run was twice the number. Dual taps at every
node. All sealed from moisture.

Hi, I am the OP. I can see that the threads of the plug and socket
would grip one another and probably make good electrical contact.

However, I can't see the wire centre connector necessarily making
electrical contact through that grease.

Does the centre conductor actually have to make electrical contact or
is 240 MHz RF able to propagate properly across the plug/socket join
even if the centre conductor is not electricially continuous?

IYSWIM.

 

[GoldIntermetallicEmbrittl]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:30:23 -0400, "Tim Perry"
<timperry@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:

Likewise any modification or adaptor you add will bear the brunt of blame in
any "discussion" with tech support or field service.

The "techs" that "assist" you online are typically VERY DUMB.

Constant plugging and unplugging of a F connector is not recommended because
the jack is likely to wear out making the center conductor connection
intermittent.

Yes, cable terminations can be very damaging to the female connectors
they mate with.


Most cable companies use a cable with a copper clad center conductor
which is steel. First off, it is very bad for your side cutters.

The second effect is that the center conductor ends up with a squared
off "nose" (end) that is of a very hard material. This means that
insertion into a female "f" connection WILL badly abrade on the two
spring loaded "wipers" that get pushed aside by the center conductor when
inserted. At that point, the two wipers become the connection to the
center conductor.

Several things happen with this cable type. First, the copper cladding
on it is barely thick enough to even call cladding. So it wears off, or
can wear fairly quickly. But a good hundred in and outs are likely not a
problem

Secondly is the abrasion on those two wipers. They can also "catch" on
the nose of the center conductor and get deformed as it tries to
literally push them out of the way. If the wipers are SPC (silver plated
copper) then the abrasion leading to poorer performance can be a mere few
insertion cycles. If it is brass or such, it may survive all 100
insertions, and still yield the same loss.

I have actually tried to round off the nose of my center conductor
before and found it inserted easier. If one has a pure copper center
conductor type cable, wear will not be an issue on the cable end, but it
could still abrade or deform the female fitting internal parts. I have
rounded those ends as well, but we are talking about severe overkill,
considering that one only desires to insert these things a couple of
times in their life.

 

[GoldIntermetallicEmbrittl]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:01:23 -0400, "Tim Perry"
<timperry@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:

"GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement"
GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement@youdontknowjack.org> wrote in message
news:b2ttc4ph6l9acth9m4de75i9lskcts0bgo@4ax.com...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:30:23 -0400, "Tim Perry"
timperry@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:

Grease is not commonly used on F connector threads. Some weather tight
models exude a sealer when crimped... but not on the threads.


Not true. There are several cities where the cable contractors followed
the CORRECT methodology of SEALING their fittings with an
anti-oxidant/moisture barrier.


You have a choice between conductive gunk which will tend to short out the
connection or non-conductive gunk which will tend to block the flow of
electrons where you would like them to flow. Take your pick. I pick neither.

You obviously have very little grasp of RF terminations.

First off, NOBODY EVER uses a conductive medium to dress a cable
fitting.

If they do, then they must be as dumb as any idiot that thinks they do.

Time Warner in new York picks neither also, as least as far as far as indoor
instillations go.

T/W in NY is what? Queens? No, I do not give the folks in NY ANY
credence on their capacity to know what the industry does or recommends
gets done (more like their capacity to FOLLOW the method).

They are the epitome of slam it, cram it, ram it, and jam it mentality,
and no, they would not ever do anything that takes up extra time,
regardless of whether it is the way one is supposed to do it, NOR would
they ever CONSIDER the customer when doing it.

They epitomize the term CABLE TRASH inasmuch as they cut a fitting and
move on. Since it works, they could give a shit that it starts dropping
dBs within a few months of termination without preparation.

Given the OP's constant unplugging of the cable I doubt oxidization will
ever be a problem for him.

The wiper does not scrape the stinger in the same spot each time, and
relying on an insertion move to "clean" one's connection is just plain
retarded.

It is far easier to replace the female "barrel connector" that most
cable runs end up termination into. That way, all the insertions in the
world can be made "brand new" by putting a new barrel fitting in the
line. Still, the cream/paste/gel whatever is still going to be the best
defense against oxidation.

ANY freshly scraped wipers or stingers, etc. are going to actually be
vulnerable to oxidation even quicker due to the bare metals, and
dissimilar metals in the connection. The anti-oxidant keeps said
oxidation from happening, and NO, it does NOT EVER "inhibit electron
flow" as you have declared.,

Hearing that from you makes one wonder if you know ANY electronics at
all.

Seeing your posts here in the past, I know that is not true, therefore,
you must have latched on to some lame urban myth. What you should have
relied on is your common sense.

 

[GoldIntermetallicEmbrittl]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:49:00 +0100, Peto <peto@invalid.com> wrote:

On Tue 16 Sep08 01:08, GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement@youdontknowjack.org> wrote in
news:b2ttc4ph6l9acth9m4de75i9lskcts0bgo@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:30:23 -0400, "Tim Perry"
timperry@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:

Grease is not commonly used on F connector threads. Some weather
tight models exude a sealer when crimped... but not on the
threads.


Not true. There are several cities where the cable contractors
followed the CORRECT methodology of SEALING their fittings
with an anti-oxidant/moisture barrier.

This has NOTHING to do with U/G coax cabling, which has a
liquid sealant layer between the sheath (jacket) and the
first braid or foil layer.

That's the threads, AND the "stinger". From a man hour POV, it
is easier to simply plop a wad of it in the fitting, then the
center conductor as well as the threads get the application.
The media does not damage the connector or ANY fitting it gets
mated with.

Cable companies are SUPPOSED to cut back their fittings every
ten years and place a new, properly treated fitting. THAT is
what the original plan called for, and is also what SHOULD BE
practiced.
A ten year old uncoated fitting will have far more losses (can
have) than one which has had anti-oxidant treatment after a ten
year span.

So, in a PROPERLY implemented cable system, treatment IS the
common practice and teaching.

Where did I learn this? Cincinnati's Time Warner (formerly
CUBE) cable system. Way back in the early 80's. That was a
DUAL system, so every run was twice the number of fittings.
Every hard line run was twice the number. Dual taps at every
node. All sealed from moisture.


Hi, I am the OP. I can see that the threads of the plug and socket
would grip one another and probably make good electrical contact.

However, I can't see the wire centre connector necessarily making
electrical contact through that grease.

The "grease" should NOT be your choice of simple petroleum jelly. It is
a specific medium. It does not inhibit OR push back against anything, so
it would not keep the wiper from gliding into the proper, connected
position... ever.

Does the centre conductor actually have to make electrical contact or
is 240 MHz RF able to propagate properly across the plug/socket join
even if the centre conductor is not electricially continuous?

With the proper medium it will not ever be kept from making said
contact. It does not have the same consistency or viscosity as PJ does.

 

[GoldIntermetallicEmbrittl]

On 16 Sep 2008 03:50:43 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:

In alt.engineering.electrical Steve <80977969755483@mail2me.net> wrote:

| "Peto" <peto@invalid.com> wrote in message
| news:Xns9B1A7EBD9C40B37E1A@unknown.sj.astraweb.com...
|> I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
|> entering my cable modem.
|
|> http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg
|
|> --------
|
|> I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
|> threads with a smear of vaseline.
|
|> At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
|> electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
|> enough?
|
|> Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?
|
| Hand tight is sufficient, yes. Its rare I would tighten them up any more
| than hand tight for most jobs,

Tell that to the cable guy. They always tighten those things to the extreme.
Maybe that's a good thing outside. But I've had to use big wrenches to get
them off after the cable guy leaves. Maybe they think its a means to keep
me from using a pirate box?

No. There is an actual torque range spec for the fitting class.

Also, a connection IS required. There is no "jumping the gap" at any
frequency. RF lines are not your car's spark plug wires.


The torques:

For an SMA connection, it is between 7 and 11 in//lbs. An F fitting is
slightly more than that.

Hand tightening can yield about 3 to 5 in/lbs on a good day.

There is an actual tool they use. It can easily be fashioned with the
right tools.

It is a snap-on six point (important) 7/16", deep length impact socket
that has had the neck turned down to a diameter just greater than the 6
points by about a millimeter or less. This allows access inside the
security "bells" that are so often used to keep us out. Then, the socket
needs to have a coax (number 6) wide slot cut into the entire length of
the socket with a dremel cut-off tool, since the socket is hardened
steel, you will not be able to use a hack saw or other steel based
cutting device without going through a few of them.

The socket sits on the cable, and slides up onto the fitting, and
VIOLA! One can properly torque the fitting on or off, and also can
access the security prevention devices incorporated into some system
installations.

Finger tight is NOT enough on a cable that gets hooked up long term as
a simple flexure of the cable can result in a loose connection.

For a hook-up that you are going to be using over and over again, finger
tight is fine as long as you know it is tight, the connection it good.
Just remember that even the slightest cable flexure can twist it loose.

So, if you are always "eyes on" then you should be alright because you
know it is still tight.

 

[Burton Bradstock]

GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement wrote:

Also, a connection IS required. There is no "jumping the gap" at any
frequency. RF lines are not your car's spark plug wires.

In Peter Wright's book Spycatcher, he describes a technique for
remotely bugging the phones of the day - 1950s - by using an RF
carrier to bridge the hookswitch by means of its innate capacitance
and therefore activate the microphone. A dim memory suggests it used a
frequency somewhere around Medium Wave - about the same as ADSL.

 

[GoldIntermetallicEmbrittl]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:41:45 +0100, Burton Bradstock
<nospam@here.invalid> wrote:

GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement wrote:

Also, a connection IS required. There is no "jumping the gap" at any
frequency. RF lines are not your car's spark plug wires.

In Peter Wright's book Spycatcher, he describes a technique for
remotely bugging the phones of the day - 1950s - by using an RF
carrier to bridge the hookswitch by means of its innate capacitance
and therefore activate the microphone. A dim memory suggests it used a
frequency somewhere around Medium Wave - about the same as ADSL.

It barely worked on SOME susceptible phones at the time, and for a time
after that, but none of the modern ISDN switched phones do, and the
construction is different now as well.

Then, all hook switches were exposed, just like the old pinball
machines. Most are sealed switches these days. Still, there are far
more and better ways of surveilling someone's activities.

But sure... that was one "genius'" "discovery". Again, it required a
specific set of circumstances to work. The main one likely being a
warrant.

 

[Blarp]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:27:32 +0100, Peto <peto@invalid.com> wrote:

I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
entering my cable modem.

http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

In the lab I used to check various sat-tv receivers. On the end of the
sat feed we had an F connector with a special connector screwed in -
it was spring loaded with a solid smooth centerpin. It could be
pushed on and off without actually using the threads.

No idea what it was called, but it was a stock item at the time.


--
- Blarp the Enigmatic

 

[Palindrome]

Blarp wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:27:32 +0100, Peto <peto@invalid.com> wrote:

I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
entering my cable modem.

http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

In the lab I used to check various sat-tv receivers. On the end of the
sat feed we had an F connector with a special connector screwed in -
it was spring loaded with a solid smooth centerpin. It could be
pushed on and off without actually using the threads.

No idea what it was called, but it was a stock item at the time.


Erm, I think that you will find that they are called "push on F plug

adaptors". .

I mentioned them earlier in the thread.

--
Sue

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:

Tell that to the cable guy. They always tighten those things to the extreme.
Maybe that's a good thing outside. But I've had to use big wrenches to get
them off after the cable guy leaves. Maybe they think its a means to keep
me from using a pirate box?

Another field you don't know anything about, Phil. I worked as the
engineer for a major MSO years ago. I was responsible for all the
electronics in CATV systems scattered all over the US. You are a ham
radio operator, and should be familiar with CFR 47. There are a lot of
regulations in there concerning CATV equipment & installations. CATV
systems share some frequencies with airports and commercial airliners.

It is required by the FCC. The cable company is responsible for any
RF radiation from their system, from their antennas, to every TV they
provide their service to. Most commercial grade 'F' connectors had a
specification of 1/8 to 1/6 turn after finger tight to meet the
radiation & ingression specification. If they detect leakage they have
to find the source. If it is from inside your house and you either
aren't home or won't let them in, they are required to disconnect your
service until all repairs are made.

--
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listed, or I will not see your messages.

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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Tim Perry wrote:

"GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement"
GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement@youdontknowjack.org> wrote in message
news:b2ttc4ph6l9acth9m4de75i9lskcts0bgo@4ax.com...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:30:23 -0400, "Tim Perry"
timperry@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:

Grease is not commonly used on F connector threads. Some weather tight
models exude a sealer when crimped... but not on the threads.


Not true. There are several cities where the cable contractors followed
the CORRECT methodology of SEALING their fittings with an
anti-oxidant/moisture barrier.


You have a choice between conductive gunk which will tend to short out the
connection or non-conductive gunk which will tend to block the flow of
electrons where you would like them to flow. Take your pick. I pick neither.

Time Warner in new York picks neither also, as least as far as far as indoor
instillations go.

Given the OP's constant unplugging of the cable I doubt oxidization will
ever be a problem for him.

There is no reason to keep disconnecting the cable modem.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

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your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Blarp wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:27:32 +0100, Peto <peto@invalid.com> wrote:

I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
entering my cable modem.

http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

In the lab I used to check various sat-tv receivers. On the end of the
sat feed we had an F connector with a special connector screwed in -
it was spring loaded with a solid smooth centerpin. It could be
pushed on and off without actually using the threads.

No idea what it was called, but it was a stock item at the time.

That is a 'G' connector, and is intended for test only. They do not
meet the FCC requirements for CATV systems.

<http://www.amphenolrf.com/search.asp?sid=48CEF7001FD9E17F&N=55>

<http://www.surplussales.com/communications/catv-3.html> near the bottom
on the right hand column has the usual 'f' to 'G' adapter that was used
on service benches. they describe it as "F" Quick Connect Adapter (CRF)
F-QC "F" quick connect adapter converts 'screw-on' male to 'push-on'
male. As usual, their descriptions are vague.

<http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Communications/catv/crf-f-qc.jpg> is
a direct link to the photo.


--
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your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Palindrome wrote:

Blarp wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:27:32 +0100, Peto <peto@invalid.com> wrote:

I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
entering my cable modem.

http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

In the lab I used to check various sat-tv receivers. On the end of the
sat feed we had an F connector with a special connector screwed in -
it was spring loaded with a solid smooth centerpin. It could be
pushed on and off without actually using the threads.

No idea what it was called, but it was a stock item at the time.


Erm, I think that you will find that they are called "push on F plug
adaptors". .

I mentioned them earlier in the thread. Marketing types use that term, but the manufactuers don't.

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

tinnews@isbd.co.uk wrote:

In uk.telecom.broadband Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Blarp wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:27:32 +0100, Peto <peto@invalid.com> wrote:

I'm in the UK. I have the usual F-series connector on the coax
entering my cable modem.

http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/catalog/images/200-045.jpg

--------

I need to remove the connector every now and then so I lubed the
threads with a smear of vaseline.

At these RF frequencies (about 340 MHz) do I need to have true
electrical contact between the plug and socket or is close proximity
enough?

Would loose "hand tight" be sufficent?

In the lab I used to check various sat-tv receivers. On the end of the
sat feed we had an F connector with a special connector screwed in -
it was spring loaded with a solid smooth centerpin. It could be
pushed on and off without actually using the threads.

No idea what it was called, but it was a stock item at the time.


That is a 'G' connector, and is intended for test only. They do not
meet the FCC requirements for CATV systems.

So what, this is a UK group!

No, it is crossposted to three groups:

alt.engineering.electrical
sci.electronics.components
uk.telecom.broadband

The UK has the same type of regulations, even if it isn't called the
FCC. It used to be the post office?


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