Extension Lead Test

[Phil Allison]

** Hi to all my friends,

following on from the "Appliance lead" thread - I was motivated to test a
length of nominal 10 amp extension lead, the kind you buy at a K-Mart store
or similar and marked as using 3 x 1.0 sq mm conductors with a 75C temp
rating.

I used a 300VA toroidal tranny modified with a heavy gauge overwind that
produces 3 volts rms at 30 amp continuous to drive current into a 1.1 metre
length of the above cable, with the blue and brown conductors linked at one
end. A Variac allowed the current to be adjusted from zero upwards to about
50 amps (short term only).

Finally I tied the head of a K type thermocouple lead tightly onto the
outside of the above cable it's mid point.

With the 1.1 metre length of cable lying on the bench, I increased the AC
current in steps until the thermocouple meter read 75C - it took half an
hour or so to finally stabilise.

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.



..... Phil

 

[Baron]

Phil Allison Inscribed thus:

** Hi to all my friends,

following on from the "Appliance lead" thread - I was motivated to
test a length of nominal 10 amp extension lead, the kind you buy at a
K-Mart store or similar and marked as using 3 x 1.0 sq mm conductors
with a 75C temp rating.

I used a 300VA toroidal tranny modified with a heavy gauge overwind
that produces 3 volts rms at 30 amp continuous to drive current into a
1.1 metre length of the above cable, with the blue and brown
conductors linked at one end. A Variac allowed the current to be
adjusted from zero upwards to about 50 amps (short term only).

Finally I tied the head of a K type thermocouple lead tightly onto the
outside of the above cable it's mid point.

With the 1.1 metre length of cable lying on the bench, I increased the
AC
current in steps until the thermocouple meter read 75C - it took
half an hour or so to finally stabilise.

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.



.... Phil

25 to 30 amps.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Swanny]

Phil Allison wrote:

** Hi to all my friends,

following on from the "Appliance lead" thread - I was motivated to test a
length of nominal 10 amp extension lead, the kind you buy at a K-Mart store
or similar and marked as using 3 x 1.0 sq mm conductors with a 75C temp
rating.

I used a 300VA toroidal tranny modified with a heavy gauge overwind that
produces 3 volts rms at 30 amp continuous to drive current into a 1.1 metre
length of the above cable, with the blue and brown conductors linked at one
end. A Variac allowed the current to be adjusted from zero upwards to about
50 amps (short term only).

Finally I tied the head of a K type thermocouple lead tightly onto the
outside of the above cable it's mid point.

With the 1.1 metre length of cable lying on the bench, I increased the AC
current in steps until the thermocouple meter read 75C - it took half an
hour or so to finally stabilise.

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.



.... Phil

A guess, based on the probability that it is a no-name Chinese cable,
about 16A.

 

[David Eather]

On 17/06/2010 12:33 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

** Hi to all my friends,

following on from the "Appliance lead" thread - I was motivated to test a
length of nominal 10 amp extension lead, the kind you buy at a K-Mart store
or similar and marked as using 3 x 1.0 sq mm conductors with a 75C temp
rating.

I used a 300VA toroidal tranny modified with a heavy gauge overwind that
produces 3 volts rms at 30 amp continuous to drive current into a 1.1 metre
length of the above cable, with the blue and brown conductors linked at one
end. A Variac allowed the current to be adjusted from zero upwards to about
50 amps (short term only).

Finally I tied the head of a K type thermocouple lead tightly onto the
outside of the above cable it's mid point.

With the 1.1 metre length of cable lying on the bench, I increased the AC
current in steps until the thermocouple meter read 75C - it took half an
hour or so to finally stabilise.

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.



.... Phil


7.5A

 

[Metro]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:hvanbl$34i$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...

** Hi to all my friends,

following on from the "Appliance lead" thread - I was motivated to test
a length of nominal 10 amp extension lead, the kind you buy at a K-Mart
store or similar and marked as using 3 x 1.0 sq mm conductors with a 75C
temp rating.

I used a 300VA toroidal tranny modified with a heavy gauge overwind that
produces 3 volts rms at 30 amp continuous to drive current into a 1.1
metre length of the above cable, with the blue and brown conductors linked
at one end. A Variac allowed the current to be adjusted from zero upwards
to about 50 amps (short term only).

Finally I tied the head of a K type thermocouple lead tightly onto the
outside of the above cable it's mid point.

With the 1.1 metre length of cable lying on the bench, I increased the AC
current in steps until the thermocouple meter read 75C - it took half
an hour or so to finally stabilise.

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.



.... Phil

I don't know the answer.You must remember thought that the 75c cable rating

is the highest temperature of the environment that a cable of that rating
can be used. Could you explain what the rating of your cable has to do with
your project. Presumably you didn't have any protection for your cable
otherwise it would have tripped.

Metro

 

[Phil Allison]

"David Eather"
Phil Allison wrote:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.



7.5A

** You think Chinese copper has more ohms than others ??


..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Baron"

Phil Allison Inscribed thus:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.


25 to 30 amps.

** Close - the cable stabilised at 75 C when passing 24 amps.

Temp rise above room ambient was 50 degrees C.

At this temp, the cable itself is still perfectly safe to use but the
possibility remains that the plug and socket may get rather hot if the pins
are not reasonably free of tarnish.

Fact is though that 24 amps will soon trip a 16 amp or even 20 amp breaker
in the AC supply circuit.



..... Phil

 

[David]

On 17/06/2010 12:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Baron"

Phil Allison Inscribed thus:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.


25 to 30 amps.


** Close - the cable stabilised at 75 C when passing 24 amps.

Temp rise above room ambient was 50 degrees C.

At this temp, the cable itself is still perfectly safe to use but the
possibility remains that the plug and socket may get rather hot if the pins
are not reasonably free of tarnish.

Fact is though that 24 amps will soon trip a 16 amp or even 20 amp breaker
in the AC supply circuit.

Fact is Phil has no idea. Take a guess at how long a 20A circuit breaker
will take to trip at 24A? For extra credit, how long will a 16A circuit
breaker take to trip at 24A?

At least Phil has acknowledged he was wrong last time when he was
talking about 15A breakers, and has used the correct ratings.

Note that the current rating for flexible cable subject to flexing is
taken for a maximum temperature of 60C (ambient 40C). Where flexible
cords are used as fixed wiring, higher temperature rise is permitted (ie
higher current).

David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David the Psychotic Autistic Pedant"

** Close - the cable stabilised at 75 C when passing 24 amps.

Temp rise above room ambient was 50 degrees C.

At this temp, the cable itself is still perfectly safe to use but the
possibility remains that the plug and socket may get rather hot if the
pins
are not reasonably free of tarnish.

Fact is though that 24 amps will soon trip a 16 amp or even 20 amp
breaker
in the AC supply circuit.

Fact is Phil has no idea.

** So says a grossly autistic, anonymous, lying lunatic pedant.

BTW:

The only good pedant is a DEAD one.

I do sincerely hope David the Pedant's death is not soon -

but rather as long and agonising as possible.




...... Phil

 

[Metro]

"David" <david@usenet.com> wrote in message
news:4c199c8c$0$13266$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

On 17/06/2010 12:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Baron"

Phil Allison Inscribed thus:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.


25 to 30 amps.


** Close - the cable stabilised at 75 C when passing 24 amps.

Temp rise above room ambient was 50 degrees C.

At this temp, the cable itself is still perfectly safe to use but the
possibility remains that the plug and socket may get rather hot if the
pins
are not reasonably free of tarnish.

Fact is though that 24 amps will soon trip a 16 amp or even 20 amp
breaker
in the AC supply circuit.

Fact is Phil has no idea. Take a guess at how long a 20A circuit breaker
will take to trip at 24A? For extra credit, how long will a 16A circuit
breaker take to trip at 24A?

At least Phil has acknowledged he was wrong last time when he was talking
about 15A breakers, and has used the correct ratings.

Note that the current rating for flexible cable subject to flexing is
taken for a maximum temperature of 60C (ambient 40C). Where flexible cords
are used as fixed wiring, higher temperature rise is permitted (ie higher
current).

David

One wonders why Phil in his project twisted the blue and brown cores

together? He should have bared the ends and held each end between finger and
thumb. He would then easily find out at what amperage the breaker would
trip. 'nough said really.

 

[David Eather]

On 17/06/2010 12:50 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"David Eather"
Phil Allison wrote:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.



7.5A


** You think Chinese copper has more ohms than others ??


.... Phil

No, but I buy a lot of stuff from China. My experience is just because
the manufacturer says it has "whatever" specification there is no
guarantee as to the truth of the mater if the market is competitive or
an extra dollar can be made - examples might be fake pharmaceuticals,
pet food filled with melamine because it improves the result of fixed
nitrogen tests and 200Amp jumper cables with lots of plastic but less
copper than a single 10 amp conductor (not kidding - "Supercheap" got
stuck with thousands of them)

My experience is about 70% of stuff is as spec, 20% is usable but
deficient in some way eg missing features, missing accessory, lower
rating etc, and 10% is just crap. Which means you either have to always
deal with shipping agencies and companies you have found reliable or
always know that your taking a chance of your money disappearing in
return for nothing of value.

 

[David]

On 17/06/2010 3:04 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Phil the Psychotic"



** Close - the cable stabilised at 75 C when passing 24 amps.

Temp rise above room ambient was 50 degrees C.

At this temp, the cable itself is still perfectly safe to use but the
possibility remains that the plug and socket may get rather hot if the
pins
are not reasonably free of tarnish.

Fact is though that 24 amps will soon trip a 16 amp or even 20 amp
breaker
in the AC supply circuit.


Fact is Phil has no idea. Take a guess at how long a 20A circuit breaker will take to trip at 24A? For extra credit, how long will a 16A circuit breaker take to trip at 24A?

At least Phil has acknowledged he was wrong last time when he was talking about 15A breakers, and has used the correct ratings.

Note that the current rating for flexible cable subject to flexing is taken for a maximum temperature of 60C (ambient 40C). Where flexible cords are used as fixed wiring, higher temperature rise is permitted (ie higher current).

David

Whats up Phil?

Unable to answer a simple question about a circuit breaker?

How long will it take to trip to trip a 20A circuit at 24A? Not a really
difficult question if you have any idea about circuit protection.

How long is "soon"?

You really should have tried to complete Uni. You might have learnt a
little bit about electricity. Fuse and circuit breaker behaviour was
probably covered in third year subject.

Come on Phil, you must have an some idea. Go out an buy one if you must.
Be careful though you don't blow the one fuse supplying power to your
apartment.

David

Hint. Think hours rather than seconds.

 

[Baron]

Phil Allison Inscribed thus:

"Baron"

Phil Allison Inscribed thus:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.


25 to 30 amps.


** Close - the cable stabilised at 75 C when passing 24 amps.

Temp rise above room ambient was 50 degrees C.

At this temp, the cable itself is still perfectly safe to use but the
possibility remains that the plug and socket may get rather hot if the
pins are not reasonably free of tarnish.

That mirrors my experience ! The contact faces are the weak points...
Phenolic stinks.

Fact is though that 24 amps will soon trip a 16 amp or even 20 amp
breaker in the AC supply circuit.



.... Phil

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David Eather"
Phil Allison wrote:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.


7.5A


** You think Chinese copper has more ohms than others ??


No, but I buy a lot of stuff from China. My experience is just because the
manufacturer says it has "whatever" specification there is no guarantee as
to the truth of the mater ...

** Wot a lot of piffle.

Anyone can check and see if the conductors are really 1 sq mm copper inside
or simply compare the self heating with another known lead connected in
series.

If that lead had really reached 75C with only 7.5 amps - I would have
notified the relevant safety authority and all hell would then break loose
with product recalls and the lot.



..... Phil

 

[Metro]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:8800tsFea9U1@mid.individual.net...

If that lead had really reached 75C with only 7.5 amps - I would have
notified the relevant safety authority and all hell would then break loose
with product recalls and the lot.

You must remember though that the 75c cable rating
is the highest temperature of the environment that a cable of that rating
can be used. It has nothing to do with the amperage of the conductor. It is
the insulation
that is the rating. It is the job of the breaker or overload to control the
load.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Metro the Masturbator "


** Get back to perusing your fat chick porn sites.

You vile, know nothing, fuckwit TROLL !!





....... Phil

 

[David Eather]

On 18/06/2010 11:35 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

"David Eather"
Phil Allison wrote:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.


7.5A


** You think Chinese copper has more ohms than others ??


No, but I buy a lot of stuff from China. My experience is just because the
manufacturer says it has "whatever" specification there is no guarantee as
to the truth of the mater ...


** Wot a lot of piffle.

Anyone can check and see if the conductors are really 1 sq mm copper inside
or simply compare the self heating with another known lead connected in
series.

Yes, anyone *can* - but mostly they don't, that is until someone gets
burnt (no puns intended) or some external force points out in an
undeniable public way that there is already a fly in the ointment.

If that lead had really reached 75C with only 7.5 amps - I would have
notified the relevant safety authority and all hell would then break loose
with product recalls and the lot.

I have no doubt that you would (and it is the right thing to do of
course) and there would be recalls.

But, you might be surprised that if you were their employee, many larger
companies would not thank you for your diligence. Finding such a problem
would point out failures in the management and control structures (hence
faults with the top management) and a string of incompetences all down
the management line and now that the problem has been pointed out (ie
they are aware of it) they are liable for damages caused if they don't
take steps to fix the problem.

This is much worse than if there becomes a public problem (like someone
else's home burning down), when they are not liable because the product
was properly certified as complying to Australian standards and it is
not their fault that some overseas dodgy supplier lied and cheated
(hence the various pushes to get supplier certified).

.... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"David Eather"
Phil Allison wrote:

** You think Chinese copper has more ohms than others ??


No, but I buy a lot of stuff from China. My experience is just because
the
manufacturer says it has "whatever" specification there is no guarantee
as
to the truth of the mater ...


** Wot a lot of piffle.

Anyone can check and see if the conductors are really 1 sq mm copper
inside
or simply compare the self heating with another known lead connected in
series.


Yes, anyone *can* - but mostly they don't,

** Only takes ONE consumer to notice the BLOODY OBVIOUS and report it to
the safety authority.

You are deliberately IGNORING the facts of this * particular * situation
and fabricating a false argument.

I suspect nothing I say will stop you from continuing to do so.

The bee in your bonnet is indeed a very busy one .......

If that lead had really reached 75C with only 7.5 amps - I would have
notified the relevant safety authority and all hell would then break
loose
with product recalls and the lot.

I have no doubt that you would (and it is the right thing to do of course)
and there would be recalls.

** Thing is, the makers and suppliers of such extension leads are also well
aware of the VERY SERIOUS repercussions of the blatant and CRIMINAL type
fraud you blithely imagine can easily be happening.

My comment about 'all hell breaking loose' was meant quite literally.

But, you might be surprised that if you were their employee, many larger
companies would not thank you for your diligence.

** True enough - but irrelevant to the issue here.

On more than a few occasions and while acting as a concerned outsider - I
have felt compelled to inform particular businesses & companies in Australia
that they were making, selling, advertising or publishing things in a way
that was VERY FAR outside of what is fair or legally acceptable practice.

For my trouble, I have received in consequence threatening letters from the
culprit's lawyers, several very hostile phone calls, an attempted smear
campaign against myself and my own small business in one case a direct
threat against my personal safety.

The culprits involved are mostly very well known to readers of this
newsgroup.

You don't need to tell me anything.



..... Phil

 

[kreed]

On Jun 18, 9:54 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"David Eather"



 Phil Allison wrote:

**  You think Chinese copper has more ohms than others ??

No, but I buy a lot of stuff from China. My experience is just because
the
manufacturer says it has "whatever" specification there is no guarantee
as
to the truth of the mater ...

** Wot a lot of piffle.

Anyone can check and see if the conductors are really 1 sq mm copper
inside
or simply compare the self heating with another known lead connected in
series.

Yes, anyone *can* - but mostly they don't,

** Only takes  ONE  consumer to notice the  BLOODY OBVIOUS and report it to
the safety authority.

You are deliberately IGNORING  the facts of this * particular *  situation
and fabricating a false argument.

I suspect nothing I say will stop you from continuing to do so.

The bee in your bonnet is indeed a very busy one  .......

If that lead had really reached 75C with only 7.5 amps  -  I would have
notified the relevant safety authority and all hell would then break
loose
with product recalls and the lot.

I have no doubt that you would (and it is the right thing to do of course)
and there would be recalls.

**  Thing is, the makers and suppliers of such extension leads are also well
aware of the  VERY  SERIOUS  repercussions of the blatant and CRIMINAL type
fraud you blithely imagine can easily be happening.

My comment about 'all hell breaking loose' was meant quite literally.

But, you might be surprised that if you were their employee, many larger
companies would not thank you for your diligence.

** True enough  -  but irrelevant to the issue here.

On more than a few occasions and while acting as a concerned outsider  -  I
have felt compelled to inform particular businesses & companies in Australia
that they were making, selling, advertising or publishing things in a way
that was VERY  FAR  outside of what is fair or legally acceptable practice.

For my trouble,  I have received in consequence threatening letters from the
culprit's lawyers, several very hostile phone calls, an attempted smear
campaign against myself and my own small business in one case a direct
threat against my personal safety.

Regardless of what you may think of Phil,
I fully believe this and would advise others to consider this advice
carefully before any action.

& would add that with QLD state government, they don't just threaten,
they act.
Assuming other states are as bad, be very careful if you start on a
gov department,
especially if they tell you they aren't interested in your complaint
(no matter how legit).

Personally now know 2 people who have tried this, and one paid a very
high price..

The culprits involved are mostly very well known to readers of this
newsgroup.

Yes, I remember cases of this type being exposed on this group going
back to at least 2002.
IEC leads.
I still remember a certain dickhead who despite the technical facts,
continued to argue the point.

You don't need to tell me anything.

....  Phil

 

[Amigo]

"David" <david@usenet.com> wrote in message
news:4c199c8c$0$13266$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

On 17/06/2010 12:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Baron"

Phil Allison Inscribed thus:

How many amps did it take to reach 75C ??

Take a guess.


25 to 30 amps.


** Close - the cable stabilised at 75 C when passing 24 amps.

Temp rise above room ambient was 50 degrees C.

At this temp, the cable itself is still perfectly safe to use but the
possibility remains that the plug and socket may get rather hot if the
pins
are not reasonably free of tarnish.

Fact is though that 24 amps will soon trip a 16 amp or even 20 amp
breaker
in the AC supply circuit.

Fact is Phil has no idea. Take a guess at how long a 20A circuit breaker
will take to trip at 24A? For extra credit, how long will a 16A circuit
breaker take to trip at 24A?

At least Phil has acknowledged he was wrong last time when he was talking
about 15A breakers, and has used the correct ratings.

Note that the current rating for flexible cable subject to flexing is
taken for a maximum temperature of 60C (ambient 40C). Where flexible cords
are used as fixed wiring, higher temperature rise is permitted (ie higher
current).

David


I think you are being a pedant, David.

One thing I do believe is that Phil A is pretty competent and knowledgeable
with electronics/electrical and I wouldn't hesitate to ask him to work on
gear of my if he would do so.