Expert Opinion Required !

[JeffM]

University of California, Seventeenth and Bristol? ;-D
Rich The Newsgropup Wacko

UC Santa Barbara, you know, the Party School?
Charles Edmondson

Rich was referring to Santa Ana (junior) College
which, according to Watt Sun,
is in the process of divesting itself of technical courses.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:32:55 -0600, Scott Stephens
<scottxs@comcast.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

But no doubt the worthless 3rd generation aristocrats select the
best and brightest peasants they can find to hide themselves among.

Ooh, do I detect a hint of bitterness?

More than a hint. I am bitter over being deceived that the "American
Way", the "American Dream", "morality", was premised on the creation and
exchange of value, rather than a zero-sum lottery played with loaded dice.

Poor baby.

John

 

[keith]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:46:21 +0000, Rich The Philosophizer wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:52:27 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:58:31 -0500, the renowned keith
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:10:59 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

Or minimizing the pain function.

...and forcing that pain on others, multiplied. Only the ultimate cowards
would go there.

True about forcing pain on others, but I don't think it's our place to
judge what internal pain such a demented soul might be in. I don't
think it's imaginable without being there.

Keith seems to be invested in blame.

Blame? You are an idiot, Rich.

The pain had by God _better_ be imaginable, if you expect to live:
http://www.godchannel.com/pain.html

Not on your best day would I go there.

--
Keith

 

[keith]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:08:06 -0800, Charles Edmondson wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:22:06 -0600, Scott Stephens
scottxs@comcast.net> wrote:


John Larkin wrote:


Going to a serious university is a pretty big bet too, bigger because
of the time and expense and difficulty,

No doubt thousands of other colleges, even public ones, turn out
millions of graduates that can't understand why the knowledge & skill
they acquired is not appreciated or valued. Supply & demand. But that
doesn't make one any less disappointed.

and because it pitts one

against the best and brightest from around the world.

One would hope, but with so many legacy, race and other preferences I
really wonder. Somewhere I heard skill or test scores are only half the
points. Not that motivations, persistence, creativity and
extra-curricular factors should be ignored, I just find the idea of the
state reverse-discriminating against me because I'm a white European
male offensive.



Seems to me that the reason to go to any school is to learn stuff and
get good at something. Once you venture into the real world, the name
of the college, the degree, and the grades fade away, and what matters
is what you can actually do. There's nothing about being white or
European that stops you from learning stuff and getting very good at
something.

The problem here in California is that the asian kids are so smart
they're coming in with 4.2 averages and 1500 SATs and crowding
everybody else out of the good high schools and colleges, and the
white and black and hispanic people are calling for race quotas.
Funny.


But no doubt the worthless 3rd generation aristocrats select the best
and brightest peasants they can find to hide themselves among.


Ooh, do I detect a hint of bitterness?

John

Yes, but that can help...

A decade ago I decided to go back and get an engineering degree. I had
a BS in psychology, so wanted to get a BS in EE. No Can Do! I tried
every decent college in southern California (wanted to go to UCSB) but
they all said no. They had no slots available for second bachelor
students unless you had a 4.0 GPA, and your father/uncle/godfather was
one of the regents...

So, moved out to Albeqe, and started at UNM. First day in class, sat
next to a guy, and find out he is a grad student in EE. Then find out
his bachelor's is in journalism! Light bulb goes on! Give UCSB a call,
and ask about GRADUATE admissions. Seems that they don't get enough US
applications, and that if I meet certain standards (the hardest is 90th
percentile on the GRE) I can get in. They have mostly a foreign
application pool, so they NEED US applicants.

A year later, I start at UCSB...

Oh, my! It took you that long to figure it out. Even when I was in
school (early '70s) a second BS (or BA) was next to impossible. I know
people who lied about their previous degrees to get into undergraduate
school. Hell, it was next to impossible to go from an AAS to a BS program.
Once one had a BS, it was easy to switch specialties though (assuming
minimal qualifications). They were all in the "graduate college".

--
Keith

 

[Scott Stephens]

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 01:09:11 -0600, Scott Stephens
scottxs@comcast.net> wrote:


John Larkin wrote:


On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:32:55 -0600, Scott Stephens
scottxs@comcast.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

Fair trade: neither of us will whine to the other. OK?

"Life is tough".

Actually, in this place and time, it isn't, very.

We've been there and discussed that. Depends if your ox is getting gored
or not.

Neurosis happens. Self-pity happens.

So does indifference. My accounts don't invalidate your accounts, nor
yours mine, and though my enemy is my friend's friend, he is still my enemy.

Scott

--
**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

**********************************

 

[Robert Baer]

Luhan Monat wrote:

Dave Boland wrote:
Charles Edmondson wrote:

happyasaclam007@yahoo.ca wrote:

Hello All,

I would be most grateful to receive some expert advice\opinion on the
subject of electronics education.

I'm seriously considering taking the AAS Degree program offered by CIE
( Cleveland Institute of Electronics ). As this represents a sizeable
investment in both time and money, some expert industry opinion would
be of great help.

How do you people in the industry feel about the quality of this
program as compared to say a technologists program from a community
college?

They claim that their grads are in great demand, but so do most
colleges and universities.
Has anyone hired one of their grads ( or know someone who has ), and if
so, how would you rate them against an traditional college grad ?

Lastly, is there a demand for people who specialize in micro controller
programing or PLC's?

With much thanks,
Rob M

Hi Rob,
So, you like programming micros and PLCs, but you want to get some
education that PROVES you know how to do it, RIGHT?

My take on these things is this - If you already know how to do this
stuff because you are a hobbiest, and have have been playing around in
your workshop with it for a few years, then MAYBE these programs will
help.

Most of these programs work at the most basic level. Their purpose is
to raise money for the schools by offering hope to lots of poor
students that they can get high paying technology jobs by taking a few
courses. Most students drop out (after paying their fees) or finish
the classes and are still flipping burgers. The ones who succeed are
the ones that already knew this stuff before going in, and just
learned a little more about what they wanted, but especially now have
certification that maybe they now know something about the field.

Back a few years ago, I had the task for hiring a few techs to help
install and maintain some fairly complex computer systems. I had
several applicants with ITT and DeVry 'degrees' come in, but only one
was worth the paper his resume was printed on. That one was a
hobbiest, the others were Bill Gates wannabes that thought just
knowing how to turn on a computer and play video games was enough to
get a job in computers. This stuff is HARD! You have to have a love
for it, or you will never be any good at it.

So, yes, it can be worth it, but you are better off going to your
state university and getting a BS:EE if you really want to make any
money.


Is an education in electronics/software really worth the effort and
cost? I ask the question in light of all of the off-shoring that is
going on, and more to come. My take is that the earning potential for
these degrees is going to go down over time, while the cost of the
education is skyrocketing.

Just my 2 cents.

Dave,

Hi,

I see mostly software jobs going off-shore. Companies still seem to
like their hardware/microcontroller designs done in-house. Then there
is 'support engineering' - keeping production, testing, and QC going.
That is not about to be outsourced either.

Finally, there's prostitution - let's see 'em outsource that one!

--
Luhan Monat (luhanis 'at' yahoo 'dot' com)
"The future is not what it used to be..."
http://members.cox.net/berniekm

About 40 years ago, when submitting my chosen classes toward a BSEE,
the "counselor" tried to talk (badgering is a closer term) me into going
for an ASS (oops!) AAS degree.
Not *one* unit for the AAS was acceptable towards a BSEE! And is most
likely the same now.
Most companies (then) hiring electronic techs view mail-order
"degrees" as being worse than useless and give the applicant a
*negative* count toward any "score" they silently give to them.
And ASS (oops!) degrees are not viewed to be much better.

Either jump in now, with no background and learn while working, or go
for a real education and work during summers to replenish school funds
and learn while working.
There may even still be some companies that offer work-study programs.
Theory alone is not of a lot of value, unless that is all you will be
working with.
Practice counts; the theory helps in tough situations.