experience

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Winfield Hill]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get
a lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books,
is what we should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps
you to do things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him
do something hard and creative now.

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:qnl20m0n5s@drn.newsguy.com:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to
get
a lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me
thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books,
is what we should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps
you to do things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him
do something hard and creative now.

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.

Founder. The term is founder. Then, some idiot came along and
spoke about the fish laying (or flopping) on its side. And it got
into usage. So eventually both were 'recognized' as correct. Does
not make it truly so though. Just like folks referring to a cell as
a battery when only one CELL is present.

So, it's OK, Win. It is 'considered' correct. But the right
term... the truly correct term... is FOUNDER.

I am sure your ribs will not bruise.

 

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 11:55:11 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

I have come to the opinion that the most important skill an engineer possesses is the ability to know when something is bad, when it is good , when it needs improvement and when it needs to be abandoned. Everything else can be overcome.
This is a very difficult skill set.

It really is not that different than the gambling song about hold'em fold'em

 

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:41:57 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 11:55:11 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

I have come to the opinion that the most important skill an engineer possesses is the ability to know when something is bad, when it is good , when it needs improvement and when it needs to be abandoned. Everything else can be overcome.
This is a very difficult skill set.

It really is not that different than the gambling song about hold'em fold'em

Along this line it is important to define (I believe in writing) the criteria on which something is deemed adequate.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 09/10/19 16:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.

Throwing someone in at the deep end can be successful, but it
can be a failure.

A company I worked at (Cambridge Concultants) used to throw
its engineers into very unfamiliar territory: the deep end
of customer engagement, proposal writing and project management.
It usually worked well because:
1 there was a "project book" outlining the
- principal stages
- what needed to be considered at each stage
- sets of sample legal clauses
- indications of what had and hadn't worked in the past

2 an atmosphere where asking good questions and asking
for help was seen as a strength not a weakness

3 checks and balances to try and catch things before they
fell through cracks in the floorboards

4 complete flexibility to do whatever seemed right in
the circumstances. A simple example is that I had my
boss working for me on a project. On one axis I was
the project manager and he was a team member, on the
other axis he was the group leader and I was a group
member. Simple.

5 the belief that people wouldn't be allowed to drown

That was a great, zany place to work.

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 11:55:11 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.

Throwing someone into the deep end can create scars that last a lifetime. I actually know people who had that done to them and they will never be comfortable around water the rest of their lives.

Isn't it better to take them in a bit more gradually from the shallow end? Failure is only a teacher if it is an outcome of reaching too far, not so much if you end up struggling to survive. But then I seriously doubt you will actually throw anyone in the deep end. More likely you will give the person training wheels and be standing beside to keep them from falling hard..

--

Rick C.

- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

blocher@columbus.rr.com wrote in
news:714a6148-82fa-47f6-97fe-a372f52049de@googlegroups.com:

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 11:55:11 AM UTC-4,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to
get a lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me
thinking about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong
lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is
what we should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to
do things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do
something hard and creative now.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

I have come to the opinion that the most important skill an
engineer possesses is the ability to know when something is bad,
when it is good , when it needs improvement and when it needs to
be abandoned. Everything else can be overcome. This is a very
difficult skill set.

It really is not that different than the gambling song about
hold'em fold'em

Referrences to gambling is what got us the shitpot despot we have
now.

I prefer Peter Gabriel and "I Have The Touch". (Security Album).

[Verse 1]
The time I like is the rush hour, 'cause I like the rush
The pushing of the people, I like it all so much
Such a mass of motion, do not know where it goes
I move with the movement and I have the touch

[Verse 2]
I'm waiting for ignition, I'm looking for a spark
Any chance collision and I light up in the dark
There you stand before me, all that fur and all that hair
Oh, do I dare? I have the touch

[Chorus]
Wanting contact, I'm
Wanting contact, I'm
Wanting contact with you
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Give me the thing I understand
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Shake hands, shake hands

[Verse 3]
Any social occasion, it's "Hello, how do you do?"
All those introductions, I never miss my cue
So before a question, so before a doubt
My hand moves out and I have the touch

[Chorus]
Wanting contact, I'm
Wanting contact, I'm
Wanting contact with you
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Give me the thing I understand
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Shake those hands, shake those hands
Shake those hands, shake those hands

[Bridge]
Pull my chin, stroke my hair, scratch my nose, hug my knees
Try drink, food, cigarette, tension will not ease
I tap my fingers, fold my arms, breathe in deep, cross my legs
Shrug my shoulders, stretch my back, but nothing seems to please

[Outro]
I need contact
I need contact
Nothing seems to please
I need contact
Oh, I need contact
Yes, I need contact
Tact-tact-tact-contact
Tact-tact-tact-contact
Tact-taca-tact-contact

 

[Martin Brown]

On 09/10/2019 16:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

It is a good starting point at least until you can think of something
better.

> 2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

Depends why it didn't work. Our lab had a black museum of things people
who should have known better made that self immolated on first use.

> 3. Things improve in small steps.

Incremental improvements to an existing design can get you a long way
100 independent 1% improvements is 170% better than the original. The
Japanese car makers demonstrated this approach convincingly.

Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

Even so you are looking for what is this problem most like based on past
experience and similar problems you have solved or seen solutions to.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.

That's a bit harsh. Like asking someone to run a marathon or swim the
channel but without bothering to do any fitness training first.

Challenging problems are fine but they need to be chosen so that the
student or apprentice you give it to stands some chance of delivering.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote in news:qnl2jq$kvl$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:qnl20m0n5s@drn.newsguy.com:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to
get
a lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me
thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books,
is what we should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps
you to do things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him
do something hard and creative now.

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.


Founder. The term is founder. Then, some idiot came along and
spoke about the fish laying (or flopping) on its side. And it got
into usage. So eventually both were 'recognized' as correct. Does
not make it truly so though. Just like folks referring to a cell
as
a battery when only one CELL is present.

So, it's OK, Win. It is 'considered' correct. But the right
term... the truly correct term... is FOUNDER.

I am sure your ribs will not bruise.

After all.... just look at the topic header.

Folks bash the grammar guys. What you should all be doing is
embracing it, not the stupid millennial dork's text language and
declarations of laughing out loud or rolling on floors.

Good thing folks cannot write out the texts from speaking in
tongues.

 

[amdx]

On 10/9/2019 11:41 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:qnl20m0n5s@drn.newsguy.com:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to
get
a lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me
thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books,
is what we should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps
you to do things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him
do something hard and creative now.

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.


Founder. The term is founder. Then, some idiot came along and
spoke about the fish laying (or flopping) on its side. And it got
into usage. So eventually both were 'recognized' as correct.

Very interesting.
> https://writingexplained.org/founder-vs-flounder-difference

Mikek

 

[amdx]

On 10/9/2019 11:31 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get
a lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books,
is what we should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps
you to do things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him
do something hard and creative now.

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.

Ya, don't ruin his future by discouraging him.
I was a good baseball player when I started little league.
The first year I did good, the second year they moved me to the majors.
This ruined me, I ended the year with a 52 batting average, I got to
play the mandatory two innings every game. I didn't try out the next year.
My dad actually warned me at the try outs, he said, "don't be to good,
they will bump you to the majors."
I coulda been a star with Al Kaline and Norm Cash! Just kidding, I
wasn't that good and it would have been a few year after them.
Mikek

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:41:57 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 11:55:11 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

I have come to the opinion that the most important skill an engineer possesses is the ability to know when something is bad, when it is good , when it needs improvement and when it needs to be abandoned. Everything else can be overcome.
This is a very difficult skill set.

I don't think this is so much a skill as it is judgement. Judgement comes from experience which seems to be the thing JL feels is not of much value.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 09:41:53 -0700 (PDT), blocher@columbus.rr.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 11:55:11 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

I have come to the opinion that the most important skill an engineer possesses is the ability to know when something is bad, when it is good , when it needs improvement and when it needs to be abandoned. Everything else can be overcome.
This is a very difficult skill set.

It really is not that different than the gambling song about hold'em fold'em

But before you can evaluate an idea, you need an idea.

 

[John Larkin]

On 9 Oct 2019 09:31:18 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get
a lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books,
is what we should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps
you to do things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him
do something hard and creative now.

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.

He certainly has AoE. If a new hire doesn't, I give her a copy.

We brainstorm and review designs a lot here, so he wouldn't drown
alone. But I want to encourage him to have ideas now, not 5 years from
now.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:41:46 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 10/9/2019 11:41 AM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:qnl20m0n5s@drn.newsguy.com:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to
get
a lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me
thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books,
is what we should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps
you to do things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him
do something hard and creative now.

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.


Founder. The term is founder. Then, some idiot came along and
spoke about the fish laying (or flopping) on its side. And it got
into usage. So eventually both were 'recognized' as correct.

Very interesting.
https://writingexplained.org/founder-vs-flounder-difference

Mikek

Out here we like the sand dabs.

 

[Phil Allison]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

------------------------------------------
..

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.


Founder. The term is founder.

** "Founder" as a noun refers to a person who begins an organisation OR as a verb to something that sinks to the bottom or otherwise drop out of sight.

OTOH - "Flounder" as a verb refers to something or someone in difficulty, trashing about in mud or confusion.

Then there is the fish:

https://anglr.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Flounder-Fishing.png

Win just left out the non essential word "about".

So, it's OK, Win. It is 'considered' correct. But the right
term... the truly correct term... is FOUNDER.

** Errr - no it isn't.



...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

-------------------------------------------

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

3. Things improve in small steps.


Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.

So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.

** Told you Larkin was a horrible boss - an asshole and a bully.

Hope the "kid" realises he is being set up to fail and walks out.



> lunatic fringe electronics

** No joke and no lie.

It's run by a sicko.


..... Phil

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 4:58:27 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

------------------------------------------
.

One thing that comes with experience is knowledge. And
more important, relevant knowledge. One can't always
get the needed knowledge from Google or Wikipedia. If
he flounders, maybe throw him a lifeline? Oh, and give
him a copy of AoE.


Founder. The term is founder.


** "Founder" as a noun refers to a person who begins an organisation OR as a verb to something that sinks to the bottom or otherwise drop out of sight.

OTOH - "Flounder" as a verb refers to something or someone in difficulty, trashing about in mud or confusion.

Then there is the fish:

https://anglr.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Flounder-Fishing.png

Win just left out the non essential word "about".


So, it's OK, Win. It is 'considered' correct. But the right
term... the truly correct term... is FOUNDER.


** Errr - no it isn't.



..... Phil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2c9-LDP0t0

 

[George Herold]

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 11:55:11 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I was talking to a young engineer who is assuming that he has to get a
lot of experience before he can design stuff. That got me thinking
about experience. It teaches a lot of people the wrong lessons:

1. What worked before, by self or by other people in books, is what we
should do now.

Yeah I think copying something done before is the best place to start.
What I remember most is copying something, having it not work,
and then figuring out what you did wrong. And of course explaining
how it works to someone else is the real test of understanding.

2. If something didn't work once, never try that again.

Well I find that it can be useful to understand why it didn't work.
That usually teaches me something.

3. Things improve in small steps.

I will never forget replacing some lenses and getting a factor
of 5 in signal! That doesn't happen very often.

George H.

Seem to me that experience is most valuable when it helps you to do
things that you have never done before.


So I'm going to throw the kid into the deep end, make him do something
hard and creative now.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics