EV charging on GFCI...

[Eddy Lee]

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?

The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive?

Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet?

 

[Don Y]

On 8/6/2023 7:51 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?

The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive?

Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet?

Check the quality of the supply-side connections to the outlet and your load.
Anything that\'s not snug can cause the GFCI to trip.

 

[server]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?

Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.


>The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive?

Mains EMC filter capacitors will let some current flowing from L to
PE. If the capacitors are too large, this can trigger the GFCI.


>Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet?

In countries with unpolarized mains sockets try turning the plug
around. The leakage might be slightly smaller from the other pole to
PE and not trigger the GFCI.

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?

The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive?
Mains EMC filter capacitors will let some current flowing from L to
PE. If the capacitors are too large, this can trigger the GFCI.
Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet?
In countries with unpolarized mains sockets try turning the plug
around. The leakage might be slightly smaller from the other pole to
PE and not trigger the GFCI.

I have tried both ways. I might be able to wire a non GFCI socket directly to the main breaker box for now, but that\'s not always possible.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 10:51:54 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?

The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive?

Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet?

It\'s your charger producing excessive leakage to the GND wire. Doesn\'t take much for a GFCI, something like 5mA. For safety purposes you want to leave the GND wiring intact, actually your output DC should be referenced to GND.. It\'s the L_N at the plug entrance to the charger that\'s usually the problem. The MOVs from each L and N to GND are potential problems, one of them is defective or has more than 5mA leakage. It\'s your call how to fix it.

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 7:53:05 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 10:51:54 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?

The 15A power extension is fine. I have used this charger on another house before. Is the GFCI outlet too sensitive?

Anyway to deal with this? Temporary bypassing the GFCI outlet?
It\'s your charger producing excessive leakage to the GND wire. Doesn\'t take much for a GFCI, something like 5mA. For safety purposes you want to leave the GND wiring intact, actually your output DC should be referenced to GND. It\'s the L_N at the plug entrance to the charger that\'s usually the problem. The MOVs from each L and N to GND are potential problems, one of them is defective or has more than 5mA leakage. It\'s your call how to fix it.

OK, i\'ll open it up to take a look later. I need to replace my axle and hub bearing first.

 

[server]

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 06:35:46 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42?AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?

That is pretty dangerous. An internal ground fault could put full
mains voltage to the car chassis for a long time. Only when barefoot
touching the car would trip the GFCI (assuming it works properly).I
dog might not like the small electric shock when sniffing or pissing
on your car .

If you sometimes use this modified mains cord into a socket without
GFCI (or faulty GFCI) and there is a real ground fault in the car, the
car can be at the full mains potential even when touching the car
chassis, possibly killing people.

A better solution is using a non-GFCI socket and use
full (L+N+PE) cord. If there is a real ground short in the car, it
will blow the mains fuse in a few seconds.

One solution is to use an insulation transformer 120/120 V (or 230/230
V depending on country).

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:34:29 AM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 06:35:46 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42?AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
That is pretty dangerous. An internal ground fault could put full
mains voltage to the car chassis for a long time.

Then by all means, cut the ground wire. I\'m sure that will give the best result for everyone.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?

Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf

 

[Don Y]

On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf

Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when
you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just
washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet,
instead?)

[If you\'re like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT
the outlet]

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf
Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when
you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just
washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet,
instead?)

[If you\'re like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT
the outlet]

Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.06.41 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf
Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

afaik RCDs are mandatory in EU, at least it is here. Though they are not like the US, they are at
the fuse panel and ~30mA. So I\'m sure the manufacturers have thought about it

VFDs and other big switchers are notorious for tripping RCDs, they don\'t like DC

 

[Don Y]

On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf
Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when
you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just
washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet,
instead?)

[If you\'re like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT
the outlet]

Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.

So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed?

Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they
designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL
be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly,
someone didn\'t understand their application!

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:23:31 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf
Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when
you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just
washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet,
instead?)

[If you\'re like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT
the outlet]

Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.
So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed?

Not needed with external GFCI.
Needed for raw outlet.
So, switching is an option.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf
Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when
you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just
washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet,
instead?)

[If you\'re like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT
the outlet]

Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.
So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed?

Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they
designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL
be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly,
someone didn\'t understand their application!

his \"charger\" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf
Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when
you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just
washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet,
instead?)

[If you\'re like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT
the outlet]

Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.
So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed?

Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they
designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL
be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly,
someone didn\'t understand their application!
his \"charger\" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum

No, it\'s a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together?

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.32.35 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid....@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf
Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when
you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just
washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet,
instead?)

[If you\'re like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT
the outlet]

Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.
So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed?

Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they
designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL
be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly,
someone didn\'t understand their application!
his \"charger\" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum
No, it\'s a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together?

isn\'t it the GFCI in the house that trips?

 

[Ricky]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:25:23 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?
Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf

\"the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play well together\"

That is some sort of official statement???

Can anyone explain why this would be? My understanding is the GFCI is just a toroid with both power leads wound through it so that is is sensitive to the difference in current only. This is sensed by an amplifier and used to control a relay. I can\'t see how cascading these would cause any problem..

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:34:12 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.32.35 UTC+2 skrev Eddy Lee:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:27:15 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
tirsdag den 8. august 2023 kl. 18.23.31 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 8/8/2023 9:15 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:06:41 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/8/2023 8:25 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:10:48 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:35 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:42:42 AM UTC-7, upsid....@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am using the portable charger on friend\'s house, but it\'s tripping the GFCI circuit. How is that possible if the vehicle is isolated from the ground with four rubber tires?
Is the charger connected to a grounded mains socket ? Any current
leaking from the L to PE can cause CFCI problems. You do not need a
direct physical leakage to surrounding ground.

Yes, would it be better not to connect the ground wire?
Yeah, silly third wire no doubt put there just to allow
electricians to charge more for each fixture they install.
Likewise, those pesky *fuses*!

The GFCI is telling you something. Why not *listen*?

Q: WHAT’S THE PROBLEM with outlets on GFCI breakers – aside from cost?
A: About 60% of the time, we find that EV chargers WILL NOT WORK on a GFCI breaker (true of
both wall mount and “mobile connectors”). In those cases, when an EV charger is plugged in,
the breaker trips (and won’t reset with the unit plugged in). This is because all EVSE already
have GFCI technology built-in, and the two devices (GFCI breaker and GFCI charger) don’t play
well together. This is an extreme version of the problem known as “nuisance tripping.”

https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf
Duh. You aren\'t supposed to cascade GFCI\'s. (And, actually, AFCI\'s are
now the new norm)

The fact that the folks designing the chargers haven\'t realized that
ALL OUTDOOR/GARAGE OUTLETS ARE EXPECTED TO BE GFCI PROTECTED and
designed their chargers accordingly sure seems like a colossal fuckup!

Remove the GFCI from your garage. Then, wait to get electrocuted when
you plug in your vacuum cleaner to finish cleaning the car you just
washed. Ooops! (Maybe you should plug your charger into a BEDROOM outlet,
instead?)

[If you\'re like us, your GFCI protection is in the load center, NOT
the outlet]

Yes, this will come up again in another house. I am going to try to add a switch to by-pass the internal GFCI.
So, YOU have decided that the internal GFCI is not needed?

Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them why they
designed a product that in 99% of usage models WILL
be connected to a GFCI yet trips unexpectedly? Clearly,
someone didn\'t understand their application!
his \"charger\" is probably a pile of random electronic scrap held together with zipties and chewing gum
No, it\'s a commercial sealed unit. You think i would bother with GFCI if I put scraps together?
isn\'t it the GFCI in the house that trips?

Yes, because the GFCI in the charger is leaking.