Ethical question.

[Jeffrey Angus]

Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
and knock a little sense back into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.

Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....

So what do you do?
(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
for the humor impaired.)

Act like nothing happened?

Congratulate them on their tastes?

Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and
give it back to them?

Spin up the drive separately and bang it against
the desk repeatedly until you knock a head loose?

Make copies for yourself?

Hand it over to the local police?

Give it back to the customer and turn them in
after a few weeks?

Charge the customer extra and demand payment to
keep quiet?

The two things that bother me the most are the
police have a terrible track record on anonymous
and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
there.

So, what to do?

Jeff

 

[Michael Gross]

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

So, what to do?

Jeff

Give it to the first nigger you see and say, "Here, trade this for da
rock homey."

 

[D Yuniskis]

On 1/6/2011 10:58 AM, Jeffrey Angus wrote:

Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
and knock a little sense back into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.

Ah, well that's your *first* mistake! :-(

Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....

So what do you do?
(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
for the humor impaired.)

Act like nothing happened?

Congratulate them on their tastes?

Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and
give it back to them?

Spin up the drive separately and bang it against
the desk repeatedly until you knock a head loose?

Make copies for yourself?

Hand it over to the local police?

Give it back to the customer and turn them in
after a few weeks?

Charge the customer extra and demand payment to
keep quiet?

The two things that bother me the most are the
police have a terrible track record on anonymous
and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
there.

So, what to do?

Of course, that depends on what you found.

Pix of "him" (?) spanking his neighbor's wife? <shrug>

Pix of "him" pouring cement over Jimmy Hoffa's body...?

To get *it* into the hands of police, you have
already given up any chance of anonymity -- even if
you shipped it to them in an unmarked envelope.

"Hey, I came in to pick up my laptop... What do
you *mean* 'you don't have it'? Where did it go???"

There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The customer brought in the computer to be repaired -- not to be searched by
a nosy serviceman. You are obliged, if only by common courtesy, not to poke
your snout where it doesn't belong.

Unless you have good reason to believe someone's life is in danger, you
should keep your trap shut.

If this is kiddie porn, you might contact the police anonymously and ask
them what they recommend doing.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Jeffrey Angus <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:

Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
and knock a little sense back into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.

Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....

So what do you do?
(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
for the humor impaired.)

Act like nothing happened?

if you can't resist snooping, try to make up for being nosey by keeping
your mouth shut. Unless their files are corrupt, it's not your job to
snoop, judge then tattle if you don't like what you found.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:58:21 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
<jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:

So what do you do?
(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
for the humor impaired.)

Ignore the porno. Literally every machine I've worked on has had at
least some porn on it. You won't be disappointed if you dig around on
mine. Basically, you have an obligation to respect the privacy of the
customer, and digging through their stuff is not exactly what I call
ethical. I've only had one situation where I had to deal with this
directly, and that's when some hacker turned the customers office
machine into a porno server complete with internet access, bbs style
login, etc. Instead of serving spam, it was serving porno. So, I
asked the customer what to do, and if he wanted the stuff saved. He
wanted to look at it before I erased it so I burned a DVD for him.

Act like nothing happened?

Yep.

Congratulate them on their tastes?

Nope.

Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and
give it back to them?

That would be vandalism. Presumably, the machine is being used for
something other than collecting porno and has his email, bookmarks,
and documents scattered all over the place. Bad idea.

Spin up the drive separately and bang it against
the desk repeatedly until you knock a head loose?

I use a bulk mag tape eraser or old magnetron magnet.

Make copies for yourself?

Only if it matches your favorite fetish. If there's any good poetry
in there, send it this way.

Hand it over to the local police?

They'll probably arrest you for running a child porn distribution
service. I know of one local case where something like that happened.
The business owner wanted to sue the former employee that was
collecting the porno on his machine. The police dragged over a
computah forensics expert, who performed an analysis. In the report,
he indicated that there was some child pornography present. So,
instead of arresting the former employee, who was long gone by then,
they file a complaint with (I guess) the state attorney generals
office, who was going to issue a warrant. Common sense eventually
prevailed. The lesson is obvious. You cannot rely on the authorities
to do the obvious or right thing.

Give it back to the customer and turn them in
after a few weeks?

The first question you'll be asked is why did you wait. Have a good
excuse ready. You'll need it.

Charge the customer extra and demand payment to
keep quiet?

If they have friends in high places, or are of a criminal persuasion,
this is a rather bad idea. They could arrange to have you charged
with blackmail and/or extortion. With the prices you probably charge,
I suspect extortion would be easy to prove.

The two things that bother me the most are the
police have a terrible track record on anonymous
and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
there.

Anonymous is a myth.

So, what to do?

When in doubt, do nothing.

Jeff

Remind me to send you an invoice for the free advice.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Meat Plow]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:58:21 -0600, Jeffrey Angus wrote:

Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics and knock a little sense back
into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the pictures folder to see what
their kinks are.

Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....

So what do you do?
(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek for the humor impaired.)

Act like nothing happened?

Congratulate them on their tastes?

Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and give it back to them?

Spin up the drive separately and bang it against the desk repeatedly
until you knock a head loose?

Make copies for yourself?

Hand it over to the local police?

Give it back to the customer and turn them in after a few weeks?

Charge the customer extra and demand payment to keep quiet?

The two things that bother me the most are the police have a terrible
track record on anonymous and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
there.

So, what to do?

Jeff

I'll assume you found some child porn. If it were me I would hand it over
to the cops. Can't say I really hate much about the world but child abuse
and those who do the abuse would be 1 of the few things I hate.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[Charlie]

"Jeffrey Angus" <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:4d2602bc$0$5566$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...

Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
and knock a little sense back into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.

Isn't that an nvasion of privacy? Did you have a search warrant?
Do you open yourself up to a lawsuit?

Advice I one got from an attorney. You never want to be in the witness box.
And you don't know the ansewer until the judge tells you.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.

Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....

So what do you do?
(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
for the humor impaired.)

Absoultely nothing. To be blunt if the word gets out that you did look,
you will NEVER get another computer to fix. While not everyone has a something
to hide, everyone has something they don't want you to see. Whether it's tax
records, letters home from their kid's teachers, or pictures of them, barnyard
animals and interesting approaches, everyone values their privacy at some level.

In fact, I hope for your sake, this is an alias, or the person, or any other
of your customers have no clue about usenet.

With that said, I want to point out a real life experience. A friend of ours
died a few years ago. She was fairly famous in the Jewish community, to the
point that although she lived in Jerusalem, a California community newspaper
had done an interview of her a few years before.

My wife did a web search on her and found that interview. When she brought it
up some porn flashed on the screen for 2-3 seconds. She asked me to look at it,
and to make a long story short, I found that of over 15,000 pages of articles
at that website, well over 2000 had hidden porn links.

The porn ranged from just people without clothes to videos best described as
"Dog and Pony shows" Tiajuana style. It was so well organized that you could
tell all of this without downloading any of these links just by the directory
structure of the file servers they were on, all of which were also "hacked".

Anyone who ever went to this news site had a one in ten chance of having
accessed and downloaded to their cache some porn, and frequent or long term
visitors would have been loaded with it.

I called the owner of the site and explained the situation to him. He had no
idea that not only was his site hacked, but that he had to check it often.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[D Yuniskis]

On 1/6/2011 1:00 PM, Charlie wrote:

"Jeffrey Angus"<jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:4d2602bc$0$5566$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
and knock a little sense back into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.

Isn't that an nvasion of privacy?

Well, "it depends"... if you deliberately went snooping
around, yes. OTOH, if you happen to open something in
the course of repairing/verifying the machine's operation,
you can justifiably claim innocence.

E.g., I routinely am called on by friends/neighbors
to fix broken laptops. Usually, it's a software issue.
Regardless, I often end up having to image the disk
or do other triage to try to salvage as much of their
"stuff" as is possible. Almost always, this requires
looking at the "stuff" (is this something they downloaded
and can potentially re-download? or, is it something they
created that can't be replicated -- like photos, email, etc.).

I *always* come across something that the owner would
rather not let others know about. Especially kids not
wanting their parents to know what they do when Mom/Dad
aren't watching.

To date, I have never even *flinched* when handing the
repaired laptop back to the owner. Even if they *know*
I may have seen their tax returns, bank statements,
"private photos", personal correspondence, etc. It's
just not "professional" and definitely not what a "friend"
would do.

OTOH, had I found a photo of one of the neighbor *kids*
engaging in some outrageous behavior, you can bet I would
approach *them* about it -- even if they were minors.

Did you have a search warrant?

I don't think the police are bound by that if the materials
come to them from a "third party". I.e. *you* may be subject
to civil (even criminal?) prosecution but I don't think
that taints the authorities' use of the materials.

Do you open yourself up to a lawsuit?

Probably. Especially if you can demonstrate financial
losses as a result of those actions (reputation, loss
of employment opportunity, etc.)

In some situations, you might also open yourself up
to criminal prosecution as an accomplice after the
fact.

Advice I one got from an attorney. You never want to be in the witness box.
And you don't know the ansewer until the judge tells you.

Best advice is not to go looking for things -- as you have
no control over what you might *find*! E.g., you *don't*
want to know where Hoffa is buried...

 

[jeff_wisnia]

D Yuniskis wrote:

On 1/6/2011 10:58 AM, Jeffrey Angus wrote:

Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
and knock a little sense back into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.


Ah, well that's your *first* mistake! :-(

Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....

So what do you do?
(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
for the humor impaired.)

Act like nothing happened?

Congratulate them on their tastes?

Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and
give it back to them?

Spin up the drive separately and bang it against
the desk repeatedly until you knock a head loose?

Make copies for yourself?

Hand it over to the local police?

Give it back to the customer and turn them in
after a few weeks?

Charge the customer extra and demand payment to
keep quiet?

The two things that bother me the most are the
police have a terrible track record on anonymous
and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
there.

So, what to do?


Of course, that depends on what you found.

Pix of "him" (?) spanking his neighbor's wife? <shrug

Pix of "him" pouring cement over Jimmy Hoffa's body...?

To get *it* into the hands of police, you have
already given up any chance of anonymity -- even if
you shipped it to them in an unmarked envelope.

"Hey, I came in to pick up my laptop... What do
you *mean* 'you don't have it'? Where did it go???"

There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...

I remembered that it was her *box*. <G>

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

 

[D Yuniskis]

On 1/6/2011 2:28 PM, jeff_wisnia wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...

I remembered that it was her *box*. <G

Actually, that is a mistranslation. It was, in fact, *jar*

 

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 1/6/2011 3:23 PM, Meat Plow wrote:

Owner says he has no knowledge of the contraband and
that he had it repaired not long ago and the contra-
band must have been placed their by the repair person.

Glad to see you paid attention to the original posting.

I wrote:

and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it there.

To answer the point of invasion of privacy.
You have no expectation of privacy if you hand your
laptop to someone.

I find the "I would never...." answers humorous. You
don't have to try and prove to me that your morals
are un-impeachable. "Me thinks you doth protest too much."

Unfortunately, with the current state of affairs these
days, it makes it almost mandatory for you to check any
media for illegal material and report it.

And yes, I don't doubt for a minute that the RIAA
would like nothing more than to hang you up by the
balls for failing to report pirated music as well.

But child abuse and child pornography are both very
high up on the "witch hunt" scale right now, and
anyone even remote connected with it, accidentally
or otherwise has to consider the potential damage
to yourself by getting sucked into that situation.

You really have only two options.
1. Deliver the laptop to the police and prepare to
have to testify in court as to who's laptop it is,
what you found on it, and why you had access to it.

2. Cause a physical failure to the drive and return
it to the customer, "Sorry, drive failed can't fix
it, unless you want a new hard drive. But you're
data is gone."

If you're lucky, customer will know why the drive
"failed" and accept that. Of course, if they're total
assholes, which is typical, they'll want to sue you
for losing their "valuable company data they didn't
back up." And you really don't want to have to explain
in civil court why you didn't turn them in to the
authorities.

Jeff
Oh and to the other Jeff, thanks for the consult,
you're check's in the mail.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Charlie <left@thestation.com> wrote:

"Jeffrey Angus" <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:4d2602bc$0$5566$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
and knock a little sense back into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.

Isn't that an nvasion of privacy? Did you have a search warrant?
Do you open yourself up to a lawsuit?

Advice I one got from an attorney. You never want to be in the witness box.
And you don't know the ansewer until the judge tells you.

this is good advice.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:06:55 +0000, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Charlie <left@thestation.com> wrote:

"Jeffrey Angus" <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:4d2602bc$0$5566$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"

So you do the usual amount of diagnostics and knock a little sense
back into the machine.

Being nosy of course, you check out the pictures folder to see what
their kinks are.

Isn't that an nvasion of privacy? Did you have a search warrant? Do
you open yourself up to a lawsuit?

Advice I one got from an attorney. You never want to be in the witness
box. And you don't know the ansewer until the judge tells you.

this is good advice.

Let's say the computer is returned with no mention of contraband. Down
the road the owner is arrested, computer seized and contraband found.
Owner says he has no knowledge of the contraband and that he had it
repaired not long ago and the contraband must have been placed their by
the repair person. You are served taken in to be questioned. Do you now
lie about having knowledge about the contraband? What if you are called
to testify? Do you purger yourself and deny knowledge?

Just some food for thought.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[D Yuniskis]

On 1/6/2011 2:44 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...

jeff_wisnia wrote:

I remembered that it was her *box*.<G

It was a jar. According to the wikipedia, it was mistranslated (around
500 years ago) as box and that has stuck in some places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box

Ah! I forget how many little bits of tid wikipedia hordes!

In my case, Greek friends set me (and a few teachers)
straight on this decades ago (along with "pea" vs. "pie",
"mee" vs. "mew", etc.)

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

D Yuniskis wrote:
There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...

jeff_wisnia wrote:

I remembered that it was her *box*. <G

It was a jar. According to the wikipedia, it was mistranslated (around
500 years ago) as box and that has stuck in some places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

Unfortunately, with the current state of affairs these
days, it makes it almost mandatory for you to check any
media for illegal material and report it.

Who the fuck gave you these powers?



Bottom line, you are a Snooper. You are invading peoples' privacy, and thus
behaving totally unethically.

 

[JeffM]

Meat Plow wrote:

I'll assume you found some child porn.

....while snooping somewhere where you weren't authorized.

If it were me I would hand it over to the cops.

Now you have a reputation

not only as someone who does unauthorized snooping
but as a nark.

Word gets out that you are a jerk
and people immediately stop bringing you their work.
Another jackass out of the business. Good.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:17:46 -0800, JeffM wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:
I'll assume you found some child porn.

...while snooping somewhere where you weren't authorized.

If it were me I would hand it over to the cops.

Now you have a reputation
not only as someone who does unauthorized snooping but as a nark.

Word gets out that you are a jerk
and people immediately stop bringing you their work. Another jackass out
of the business. Good.

A NARC is urban slang for someone who squeals on narcotics dealers.

I will report child porn all day long. But it's nice to see that you
support child porn by not reporting it.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse