engineers as heroes...

[bitrex]

On 12/9/2020 2:36 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 5:10:56 PM UTC+11, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 7:36:51 AM UTC+11, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 11/29/2020 12:13 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:46:12 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net
wrote:

On 11/29/2020 11:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trust-me-im-doctor-britains-most-least-respected-professions




America\'s would read like:

1. Some guy on the Internet
2. Heavily-armed police with unlimited power
3. Journalists paid by the Cato Institute who tell me what I want
to hear 4. Former game-show hosts/TV personalities
5. Spiritual leaders who tell me God wants me to be rich
6. ZeroHedge author

etc.

Snark and nonsense. You just hate America and yourself.

When JL heard \"When tyranny comes to America, it will be wrapped in
the flag and carrying a cross\" he thought they was writing an
instruction manual.

It\'s always wrapped in a flag, but the cross can be many things, like
global warming. And you do hate the US.

Bitrex clearly doesn\'t hate the US, even if he thinks it could be
improved. Tom Del Rosso and John Larkin seem to think that the USA is
absolutely perfect just the way it is - which is a trifle unrealistic
- and interpret any desire for change as a desire to damage that
perfection, which has to be motivated by hatred. It\'s silly.

Wrong on every point.

Pity that you don\'t address any of them.

It\'s the left that assumes that hatred drives opposition to gay
marriage, and that \"we have to ask why they hate us\" after 911 because
they assumed it must be the motive.

Where did gay marriage get into the discussion? And what has 9/11 got to do with with your assertion that Bitrex hates the US?

Yes it is stupid and childish. So is the left\'s frequent use of \"fair\"
and \"fairness\", which are words children use even more often than hate,
because they don\'t understand that fairness is subjective.

The right seems to think that fairness is subjective, because they can\'t bring themselves to see that certain traditional ways of behaving are unfair.

But Bitrex has expressed clear hatred for traditional Americans, often
on trival grounds like mocking rural people for stocking up for natural
disasters, by implying that it\'s really biblical armageddon they\'re
worried about.

Mocking people isn\'t actually expressing hatred.. It\'s just not taking them very seriously. Hatred directs you actually damage them - \"sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me\" which isn\'t strictly true, but close enough.

Can\'t say I remember this instance. Was it about multiple-convicted
scam-artist Jim Bakker selling buckets of food on TV for the end times?
Yes it\'s a terrible idea for any purpose as any actual survivalist could
tell you and he is a habitual scam-artist.

I don\'t know if Mormons count as \"traditional Americans\" but if other
types of \"traditional Americans\" want to do it properly they should ask
them.

Larkin probably agrees with me that our constitution is as perfect as
humanly possible, and the country would be too if we followed it.

That\'s what I was saying you thought. It\'s obviously untrue - lots of people have written constitutions modelled on the US constitution, but there are features - like the electoral college and the right to bear arms 2nd amendment - which nobody has bothered to copy for fairly obvious reasons

Any desire for change should follow the procedure for amendment, instead of ignoring what it says as written - a very non-trivial distinction that the left can\'t wrap their heads around.

Nobody ignores what it says as written, but most people have enough sense to realise that the US constitution was written by a particular set of fallible human beings who clearly didn\'t get everything right.

You might be able to amend it into something better, but there are better constitutions around these days, and you\'d do better to start off from one of them.

 

[bitrex]

On 12/9/2020 1:10 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 7:36:51 AM UTC+11, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 11/29/2020 12:13 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:46:12 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net
wrote:

On 11/29/2020 11:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trust-me-im-doctor-britains-most-least-respected-professions




America\'s would read like:

1. Some guy on the Internet
2. Heavily-armed police with unlimited power
3. Journalists paid by the Cato Institute who tell me what I want
to hear 4. Former game-show hosts/TV personalities
5. Spiritual leaders who tell me God wants me to be rich
6. ZeroHedge author

etc.

Snark and nonsense. You just hate America and yourself.

When JL heard \"When tyranny comes to America, it will be wrapped in
the flag and carrying a cross\" he thought they was writing an
instruction manual.

It\'s always wrapped in a flag, but the cross can be many things, like
global warming. And you do hate the US.

Bitrex clearly doesn\'t hate the US, even if he thinks it could be
improved. Tom Del Rosso and John Larkin seem to think that the USA is
absolutely perfect just the way it is - which is a trifle unrealistic
- and interpret any desire for change as a desire to damage that
perfection, which has to be motivated by hatred. It\'s silly.


Wrong on every point.

It\'s the left that assumes that hatred drives opposition to gay
marriage, and that \"we have to ask why they hate us\" after 911 because
they assumed it must be the motive.

Yes it is stupid and childish. So is the left\'s frequent use of \"fair\"
and \"fairness\", which are words children use even more often than hate,
because they don\'t understand that fairness is subjective.

But Bitrex has expressed clear hatred for traditional Americans, often
on trival grounds like mocking rural people for stocking up for natural
disasters, by implying that it\'s really biblical armageddon they\'re
worried about.

Larkin probably agrees with me that our constitution is as perfect as
humanly possible, and the country would be too if we followed it.

Any desire for change should follow the procedure for amendment, instead
of ignoring what it says as written - a very non-trivial distinction
that the left can\'t wrap their heads around.

The Constitution says nothing on many topics. It\'s OK to be a \"strict
textualist\" but then falling back to \"tradition\" as the next adjudicator
in line on legal issues the Constitution is silent on is the cop-out of
all cop-outs. You is either a textualist, or you ain\'t.

 

[David Brown]

On 09/12/2020 07:10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 7:36:51 AM UTC+11, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 11/29/2020 12:13 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:46:12 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net
wrote:

On 11/29/2020 11:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trust-me-im-doctor-britains-most-least-respected-professions




America\'s would read like:

1. Some guy on the Internet
2. Heavily-armed police with unlimited power
3. Journalists paid by the Cato Institute who tell me what I want
to hear 4. Former game-show hosts/TV personalities
5. Spiritual leaders who tell me God wants me to be rich
6. ZeroHedge author

etc.

Snark and nonsense. You just hate America and yourself.

When JL heard \"When tyranny comes to America, it will be wrapped in
the flag and carrying a cross\" he thought they was writing an
instruction manual.

It\'s always wrapped in a flag, but the cross can be many things, like
global warming. And you do hate the US.

Bitrex clearly doesn\'t hate the US, even if he thinks it could be
improved. Tom Del Rosso and John Larkin seem to think that the USA is
absolutely perfect just the way it is - which is a trifle unrealistic
- and interpret any desire for change as a desire to damage that
perfection, which has to be motivated by hatred. It\'s silly.


Wrong on every point.

It\'s the left that assumes that hatred drives opposition to gay
marriage,

I suspect the main driving forces for opposition to gay marriage are
ignorance and fear. The hatred is probably a result of the fear and
ignorance, rather than the cause.

and that \"we have to ask why they hate us\" after 911 because
they assumed it must be the motive.

You shouldn\'t have to ask why \"they\" hate you - it\'s obvious. Bush (as
quoted by bitrex) got it completely wrong, but he was never the smartest
in the Bush family.

Yes it is stupid and childish. So is the left\'s frequent use of \"fair\"
and \"fairness\", which are words children use even more often than hate,
because they don\'t understand that fairness is subjective.

One of the defining differences of the left/right distinction is that
the left side wants to be \"fair\", while the right side wants \"might
makes right\". The terms may be hard to define well, and may be somewhat
subjective, but the principle is clear.

But Bitrex has expressed clear hatred for traditional Americans, often
on trival grounds like mocking rural people for stocking up for natural
disasters, by implying that it\'s really biblical armageddon they\'re
worried about.

\"Traditional Americans\" ? Do you mean native Americans? Or is this
your own personal term for people who think like yourself?

Larkin probably agrees with me that our constitution is as perfect as
humanly possible, and the country would be too if we followed it.

I\'m sure John Larkin can speak for himself. But blind belief in the
perfection of an old written document is a recipe for disaster - it is
fanaticism, denial of reality, and unable to cope with change. It is no
different than cultists who think the Bible or the Koran (or whatever)
is literally true, giving them the right to abuse or kill whoever they
want according to their interpretation of those words.

There\'s no doubt there is lots of good stuff in the US constitution, and
it was an inspiration to many countries. There is also no doubt that
there is some bad stuff too (the electoral college junk being a fine
example these days). And the fact that it is /not/ perfect should be
utterly obvious to anyone - if it had been perfect, why have there been
amendments? Or is it somehow that after 27 amendments it is now
perfect, and a 28th amendment will never be needed?

The reality is that much of your constitution is badly outdated. The
USA was a very different place 200 years ago. Even if the constitution
had been \"perfect\" when it was written, it is not perfect now (even with
the amendments). Your ridiculous president and ridiculous election
system demonstrates that.

Any desire for change should follow the procedure for amendment, instead
of ignoring what it says as written - a very non-trivial distinction
that the left can\'t wrap their heads around.

I\'m sure the left-wing supporters are fully aware that one does not
change a country\'s constitution without due procedure, and that these
procedures are complicated, time-consuming and require significant
popular and political support. (All with good reason - stability in a
country is more important than the details of the law.)

 

[bitrex]

On 12/9/2020 4:34 AM, David Brown wrote:

On 09/12/2020 07:10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 7:36:51 AM UTC+11, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 11/29/2020 12:13 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:46:12 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net
wrote:

On 11/29/2020 11:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trust-me-im-doctor-britains-most-least-respected-professions




America\'s would read like:

1. Some guy on the Internet
2. Heavily-armed police with unlimited power
3. Journalists paid by the Cato Institute who tell me what I want
to hear 4. Former game-show hosts/TV personalities
5. Spiritual leaders who tell me God wants me to be rich
6. ZeroHedge author

etc.

Snark and nonsense. You just hate America and yourself.

When JL heard \"When tyranny comes to America, it will be wrapped in
the flag and carrying a cross\" he thought they was writing an
instruction manual.

It\'s always wrapped in a flag, but the cross can be many things, like
global warming. And you do hate the US.

Bitrex clearly doesn\'t hate the US, even if he thinks it could be
improved. Tom Del Rosso and John Larkin seem to think that the USA is
absolutely perfect just the way it is - which is a trifle unrealistic
- and interpret any desire for change as a desire to damage that
perfection, which has to be motivated by hatred. It\'s silly.


Wrong on every point.

It\'s the left that assumes that hatred drives opposition to gay
marriage,

I suspect the main driving forces for opposition to gay marriage are
ignorance and fear. The hatred is probably a result of the fear and
ignorance, rather than the cause.

The Constitution says nothing on the topic of a right to marriage of any
type, but it has an equal protection clause and good grief even the Cato
Institute tends to agree that it applies to gay marriage.

<https://www.cato.org/blog/equal-protection-clause-requires-giving-marriage-licenses-same-sex-couples>

I can\'t evaluate anyone\'s level of hatred but you sure have to be a
serious wing-nut if the Cato Institute is too left-wing for you.

 

[bitrex]

On 12/9/2020 4:48 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 12/9/2020 4:34 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 09/12/2020 07:10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 7:36:51 AM UTC+11, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 11/29/2020 12:13 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:46:12 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net
wrote:

On 11/29/2020 11:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trust-me-im-doctor-britains-most-least-respected-professions





America\'s would read like:

1. Some guy on the Internet
2. Heavily-armed police with unlimited power
3. Journalists paid by the Cato Institute who tell me what I want
to hear 4. Former game-show hosts/TV personalities
5. Spiritual leaders who tell me God wants me to be rich
6. ZeroHedge author

etc.

Snark and nonsense. You just hate America and yourself.

When JL heard \"When tyranny comes to America, it will be wrapped in
the flag and carrying a cross\" he thought they was writing an
instruction manual.

It\'s always wrapped in a flag, but the cross can be many things, like
global warming. And you do hate the US.

Bitrex clearly doesn\'t hate the US, even if he thinks it could be
improved. Tom Del Rosso and John Larkin seem to think that the USA is
absolutely perfect just the way it is - which is a trifle unrealistic
- and interpret any desire for change as a desire to damage that
perfection, which has to be motivated by hatred. It\'s silly.


Wrong on every point.

It\'s the left that assumes that hatred drives opposition to gay
marriage,

I suspect the main driving forces for opposition to gay marriage are
ignorance and fear.  The hatred is probably a result of the fear and
ignorance, rather than the cause.

The Constitution says nothing on the topic of a right to marriage of any
type, but it has an equal protection clause and good grief even the Cato
Institute tends to agree that it applies to gay marriage.

https://www.cato.org/blog/equal-protection-clause-requires-giving-marriage-licenses-same-sex-couples


I can\'t evaluate anyone\'s level of hatred but you sure have to be a
serious wing-nut if the Cato Institute is too left-wing for you.

And the way they derived that it did was via strict textualism. \"The
fact that the provision’s ratifiers didn’t automatically or explicitly
understand that it would eventually require states to recognize same-sex
marriages is _irrelevant_\"