elliptical engineering...

[RichD]

I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s
the best full body workout, along with the rower.

I wonder, how do they implement the variable
resistance? hmmmm... a viscous damper? Place
a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods, fill
it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping
motor, adjusting the viscosity.

Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though
more interesting and elegant, to a EE.

The rowing machine is simply a mechanical linkage,
just friction. Boring, but probably cost/performance optimal.

--
Rich

 

[Joerg]

On 2/24/23 1:47 PM, RichD wrote:

I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s
the best full body workout, along with the rower.

I wonder, how do they implement the variable
resistance? hmmmm... a viscous damper? Place
a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods, fill
it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping
motor, adjusting the viscosity.

You\'d have to get rid of the heat though. A trained person is able to
keep it well north of 200W for a long time. When a doc tested my fitness
for an upcoming oil rig assignment his assistant came storming into the
ergometry room and made me stop. A burn stench was wafting off the brake
of the bike and my heart rate still hadn\'t reached target.

Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though
more interesting and elegant, to a EE.

The rowing machine is simply a mechanical linkage,
just friction. Boring, but probably cost/performance optimal.

The rower I use appears to have magnetic resistance. The gym has two but
I prefer the one with magnetic damping because it feels much more like
real rowing, where you have immediate resistance once the paddles go
into the water. The other more fancy looking rower has an air propeller
brake and that just feels weird to me. The resistance increases during
the pull and is very low at the beginning of the pull. Plus it\'s noisy.

The ellipticals they have are big fancy machines with computers and all
but I don\'t really use them. My leg strength is trained using my road
bike and on the mountain bike.

Behind \"my\" rower they have two exercise bikes with huge propeller
brakes. Those sound like a jet engine is spooling up.

I wonder why they can\'t do what one gym did for redearch purposes, using
all this energy to generate electricity and feed it back into the grid.
Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Don Y]

On 2/24/2023 2:47 PM, RichD wrote:

I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s
the best full body workout, along with the rower.

I wonder, how do they implement the variable
resistance? hmmmm... a viscous damper? Place
a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods, fill
it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping
motor, adjusting the viscosity.

Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though
more interesting and elegant, to a EE.

Motor (acting as generator) with a variable \"load\"?

The rowing machine is simply a mechanical linkage,
just friction. Boring, but probably cost/performance optimal.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 4:47:38 PM UTC-5, RichD wrote:

I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s
the best full body workout, along with the rower.

I wonder, how do they implement the variable
resistance? hmmmm... a viscous damper? Place
a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods, fill
it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping
motor, adjusting the viscosity.

Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though
more interesting and elegant, to a EE.

Usually it is a simple eccentric cam, or equivalent. The idea is you have less mechanical advantage through the range of motion where you have high leverage, and more mechanical advantage through the range of motion where you have less leverage.

The rowing machine is simply a mechanical linkage,
just friction. Boring, but probably cost/performance optimal.

It\'s much more than that.

--
Rich

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:21:13 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

On 2/24/23 1:47 PM, RichD wrote:
I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s
the best full body workout, along with the rower.

I wonder, how do they implement the variable
resistance? hmmmm... a viscous damper? Place
a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods, fill
it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping
motor, adjusting the viscosity.

You\'d have to get rid of the heat though. A trained person is able to
keep it well north of 200W for a long time. When a doc tested my fitness
for an upcoming oil rig assignment his assistant came storming into the
ergometry room and made me stop. A burn stench was wafting off the brake
of the bike and my heart rate still hadn\'t reached target.
Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though
more interesting and elegant, to a EE.

The rowing machine is simply a mechanical linkage,
just friction. Boring, but probably cost/performance optimal.

The rower I use appears to have magnetic resistance. The gym has two but
I prefer the one with magnetic damping because it feels much more like
real rowing, where you have immediate resistance once the paddles go
into the water. The other more fancy looking rower has an air propeller
brake and that just feels weird to me. The resistance increases during
the pull and is very low at the beginning of the pull. Plus it\'s noisy.

Crossfit has been using the Concept rowers for years. They really know what they\'re doing on the kinematics end of things, meaning training on that rower is the best preparation for real rowing.

https://shop.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/298-model-d-with-pm5.html

I used it once, and decided it wasn\'t worth the trouble for me. I use their Sumo deadlift high pull with 45 lb bar substitution instead. It may not be rowing, but it\'s a good enough workout. And you don\'t have to waste space and money on one highly specialized piece of equipment.

The ellipticals they have are big fancy machines with computers and all
but I don\'t really use them. My leg strength is trained using my road
bike and on the mountain bike.

Behind \"my\" rower they have two exercise bikes with huge propeller
brakes. Those sound like a jet engine is spooling up.

I wonder why they can\'t do what one gym did for redearch purposes, using
all this energy to generate electricity and feed it back into the grid.
Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

When push comes to shove you don\'t need any of that crap.

For cyclists they have trainers you set your rear axle in and adjust resistance with your gearing. That\'s probably the best cycling training you can get because you\'re using the real thing, your bike.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 02.06.41 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:

For cyclists they have trainers you set your rear axle in and adjust resistance with your gearing. That\'s probably the best cycling training you can get because you\'re using the real thing, your bike.

the fancier one have computer controlled magnetic resistance, so you can pick, say, a stage from
the tour de France. The computer will adjust the resistance to match where you are on the stage
and you can watch the road on a TV

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 00.21.13 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:

On 2/24/23 1:47 PM, RichD wrote:
I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s
the best full body workout, along with the rower.

I wonder, how do they implement the variable
resistance? hmmmm... a viscous damper? Place
a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods, fill
it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping
motor, adjusting the viscosity.

You\'d have to get rid of the heat though. A trained person is able to
keep it well north of 200W for a long time. When a doc tested my fitness
for an upcoming oil rig assignment his assistant came storming into the
ergometry room and made me stop. A burn stench was wafting off the brake
of the bike and my heart rate still hadn\'t reached target.

depends on your size, https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0603/4027/3331/files/watts-4.png

Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though
more interesting and elegant, to a EE.

The rowing machine is simply a mechanical linkage,
just friction. Boring, but probably cost/performance optimal.

The rower I use appears to have magnetic resistance. The gym has two but
I prefer the one with magnetic damping because it feels much more like
real rowing, where you have immediate resistance once the paddles go
into the water. The other more fancy looking rower has an air propeller
brake and that just feels weird to me. The resistance increases during
the pull and is very low at the beginning of the pull. Plus it\'s noisy.

The ellipticals they have are big fancy machines with computers and all
but I don\'t really use them. My leg strength is trained using my road
bike and on the mountain bike.

Behind \"my\" rower they have two exercise bikes with huge propeller
brakes. Those sound like a jet engine is spooling up.

I wonder why they can\'t do what one gym did for redearch purposes, using
all this energy to generate electricity and feed it back into the grid.

There have been one here, but for the tiny amount of energy it was pointless virtue signalling

Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

500Wh would be alot

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 8:26:53 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 02.06.41 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:

For cyclists they have trainers you set your rear axle in and adjust resistance with your gearing. That\'s probably the best cycling training you can get because you\'re using the real thing, your bike.

the fancier one have computer controlled magnetic resistance, so you can pick, say, a stage from
the tour de France. The computer will adjust the resistance to match where you are on the stage
and you can watch the road on a TV

Forget that European road racing. Once I heard they go into those sharp mountain curves at high speed and skidding/ sliding to the outer edge of the radius. Some of them misjudge and go over a very steep precipice- and get very very injured in the process- because they\'re going very very fast

 

[Don Y]

On 2/24/2023 6:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

500Wh would be alot

Walking on a treadmill and on an elliptical use different
muscle groups. Likewise for a cycle (\"spinner\").

I walk at more than 4MPH and can never get my heart rate
into the aerobic zone even after an hour at that pace.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 02.35.57 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:

On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 8:26:53 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 02.06.41 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:

For cyclists they have trainers you set your rear axle in and adjust resistance with your gearing. That\'s probably the best cycling training you can get because you\'re using the real thing, your bike.

the fancier one have computer controlled magnetic resistance, so you can pick, say, a stage from
the tour de France. The computer will adjust the resistance to match where you are on the stage
and you can watch the road on a TV
Forget that European road racing. Once I heard they go into those sharp mountain curves at high speed and skidding/ sliding to the outer edge of the radius. Some of them misjudge and go over a very steep precipice- and get very very injured in the process- because they\'re going very very fast

you obviously never watched any. It is mostly flat roads or uphill, they do occasionally have fast downhill sections, I think the record is ~100km/h, but they are professionals and rarely crash

 

[Joerg]

On 2/24/23 5:06 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:21:13 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2/24/23 1:47 PM, RichD wrote:
I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s the best full body
workout, along with the rower.

I wonder, how do they implement the variable resistance? hmmmm...
a viscous damper? Place a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods,
fill it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping motor,
adjusting the viscosity.

You\'d have to get rid of the heat though. A trained person is able
to keep it well north of 200W for a long time. When a doc tested my
fitness for an upcoming oil rig assignment his assistant came
storming into the ergometry room and made me stop. A burn stench
was wafting off the brake of the bike and my heart rate still
hadn\'t reached target.
Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though more
interesting and elegant, to a EE.

The rowing machine is simply a mechanical linkage, just friction.
Boring, but probably cost/performance optimal.

The rower I use appears to have magnetic resistance. The gym has
two but I prefer the one with magnetic damping because it feels
much more like real rowing, where you have immediate resistance
once the paddles go into the water. The other more fancy looking
rower has an air propeller brake and that just feels weird to me.
The resistance increases during the pull and is very low at the
beginning of the pull. Plus it\'s noisy.

Crossfit has been using the Concept rowers for years. They really
know what they\'re doing on the kinematics end of things, meaning
training on that rower is the best preparation for real rowing.

https://shop.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/298-model-d-with-pm5.html

That\'s the one our gym has, sans the screens. I dont like it because it
does not resemble real rowing out on the water. their simpler machine
does but I can\'t recall its name right now. I do about 30 minutes on it
every time at the gym, then ove to other devices.

I used it once, and decided it wasn\'t worth the trouble for me. I use
their Sumo deadlift high pull with 45 lb bar substitution instead. It
may not be rowing, but it\'s a good enough workout. And you don\'t have
to waste space and money on one highly specialized piece of
equipment.

I can\'t do weight lifting because of a bad lower back. That is also the
reason for training mostly on the rower.

The ellipticals they have are big fancy machines with computers and
all but I don\'t really use them. My leg strength is trained using
my road bike and on the mountain bike.

Behind \"my\" rower they have two exercise bikes with huge propeller
brakes. Those sound like a jet engine is spooling up.

I wonder why they can\'t do what one gym did for redearch purposes,
using all this energy to generate electricity and feed it back into
the grid. Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could
also let patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this
visit!\"

When push comes to shove you don\'t need any of that crap.

For cyclists they have trainers you set your rear axle in and adjust
resistance with your gearing. That\'s probably the best cycling
training you can get because you\'re using the real thing, your bike.

True, but you burn up tires and chains without getting any real miles. I
prefer real miles. In the wind, the trees flying by, the real deal. Even
when the weather isn\'t so great. However, that doesn\'t do anything for
upper body fitness. Since my lower back issues don\'t allow me to lift a
kayak I joined a gym with rowing machines for that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

On 2/24/23 5:45 PM, Don Y wrote:

On 2/24/2023 6:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

500Wh would be alot

Not really. I pump out a lot more than that on my all-day rides,
especially when riding alone or with just one fast rider. Cycling pros
can do that in less than 2h.

Walking on a treadmill and on an elliptical use different
muscle groups.  Likewise for a cycle (\"spinner\").

I walk at more than 4MPH and can never get my heart rate
into the aerobic zone even after an hour at that pace.

Walking never does unless it\'s up a Himalayan mountain. You\'ve got to go
into some sort of run where you break a sweat even in winter weather.
Biking is easier on the joints though.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <k5v3c1FmdbnU1@mid.individual.net>,
news@analogconsultants.com says...

On 2/24/23 5:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 2/24/2023 6:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

500Wh would be alot


Not really. I pump out a lot more than that on my all-day rides,
especially when riding alone or with just one fast rider. Cycling pros
can do that in less than 2h.

Probably that 500 WH is not too far off. Most adults ues/generate the
heat of a 75 to 100 watts while at rest and walking around the house.

I did see a comical fiction movie where the world ran out of electricity
and it was discovered that having sex would make electricity.
Just imagine an airplane full of people having sex to get it to fly.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 19.46.33 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:

On 2/24/23 5:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 2/24/2023 6:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

500Wh would be alot
Not really. I pump out a lot more than that on my all-day rides,
especially when riding alone or with just one fast rider. Cycling pros
can do that in less than 2h.

sure, about half a tour de France stage
https://www.velonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/CAS-stage-8-file.jpeg

but how many people spend several hours at those power levels at the gym?

 

[Joerg]

On 2/25/23 11:21 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 19.46.33 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:
On 2/24/23 5:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 2/24/2023 6:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

500Wh would be alot
Not really. I pump out a lot more than that on my all-day rides,
especially when riding alone or with just one fast rider. Cycling pros
can do that in less than 2h.

sure, about half a tour de France stage
https://www.velonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/CAS-stage-8-file.jpeg

but how many people spend several hours at those power levels at the gym?

I\'ve met people who do two hours full bore there. I can\'t stand staring
at a wall that long but don\'t need to because most of my watthours get
pumped out during bike rides. Real rides, not stationary.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 1:34:35 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

On 2/24/23 5:06 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:21:13 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2/24/23 1:47 PM, RichD wrote:
I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s the best full body
workout, along with the rower.

I wonder, how do they implement the variable resistance? hmmmm...
a viscous damper? Place a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods,
fill it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping motor,
adjusting the viscosity.

You\'d have to get rid of the heat though. A trained person is able
to keep it well north of 200W for a long time. When a doc tested my
fitness for an upcoming oil rig assignment his assistant came
storming into the ergometry room and made me stop. A burn stench
was wafting off the brake of the bike and my heart rate still
hadn\'t reached target.
Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though more
interesting and elegant, to a EE.

The rowing machine is simply a mechanical linkage, just friction.
Boring, but probably cost/performance optimal.

The rower I use appears to have magnetic resistance. The gym has
two but I prefer the one with magnetic damping because it feels
much more like real rowing, where you have immediate resistance
once the paddles go into the water. The other more fancy looking
rower has an air propeller brake and that just feels weird to me.
The resistance increases during the pull and is very low at the
beginning of the pull. Plus it\'s noisy.

Crossfit has been using the Concept rowers for years. They really
know what they\'re doing on the kinematics end of things, meaning
training on that rower is the best preparation for real rowing.

https://shop.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/298-model-d-with-pm5.html

That\'s the one our gym has, sans the screens. I dont like it because it
does not resemble real rowing out on the water. their simpler machine
does but I can\'t recall its name right now. I do about 30 minutes on it
every time at the gym, then ove to other devices.
I used it once, and decided it wasn\'t worth the trouble for me. I use
their Sumo deadlift high pull with 45 lb bar substitution instead. It
may not be rowing, but it\'s a good enough workout. And you don\'t have
to waste space and money on one highly specialized piece of
equipment.

I can\'t do weight lifting because of a bad lower back. That is also the
reason for training mostly on the rower.


The ellipticals they have are big fancy machines with computers and
all but I don\'t really use them. My leg strength is trained using
my road bike and on the mountain bike.

Behind \"my\" rower they have two exercise bikes with huge propeller
brakes. Those sound like a jet engine is spooling up.

I wonder why they can\'t do what one gym did for redearch purposes,
using all this energy to generate electricity and feed it back into
the grid. Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could
also let patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this
visit!\"

When push comes to shove you don\'t need any of that crap.

For cyclists they have trainers you set your rear axle in and adjust
resistance with your gearing. That\'s probably the best cycling
training you can get because you\'re using the real thing, your bike.

True, but you burn up tires and chains without getting any real miles. I
prefer real miles. In the wind, the trees flying by, the real deal. Even
when the weather isn\'t so great. However, that doesn\'t do anything for
upper body fitness. Since my lower back issues don\'t allow me to lift a
kayak I joined a gym with rowing machines for that.

That\'s true about the trainer. The major component missing is wind resistance.

IIRC you only have to be doing about 15 MPH to require about 2/3 of your work for overcoming wind resistance.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

On 2/24/23 6:46 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 02.35.57 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:
On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 8:26:53 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 02.06.41 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:

For cyclists they have trainers you set your rear axle in and adjust resistance with your gearing. That\'s probably the best cycling training you can get because you\'re using the real thing, your bike.

the fancier one have computer controlled magnetic resistance, so you can pick, say, a stage from
the tour de France. The computer will adjust the resistance to match where you are on the stage
and you can watch the road on a TV
Forget that European road racing. Once I heard they go into those sharp mountain curves at high speed and skidding/ sliding to the outer edge of the radius. Some of them misjudge and go over a very steep precipice- and get very very injured in the process- because they\'re going very very fast


you obviously never watched any. It is mostly flat roads or uphill, they do occasionally have fast downhill sections, I think the record is ~100km/h, but they are professionals and rarely crash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmJ_sskSJ5M
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wP3gAGm5Ev4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17qtRLCIHZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u0hVp59ggk

Wouter Weylandt unfortunately died in such an incident. Downhill at
around 50mph, in Italy.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 2:21:30 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

lørdag den 25. februar 2023 kl. 19.46.33 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:
On 2/24/23 5:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 2/24/2023 6:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Or at least offset their business usage. Then they could also let
patrons know \"Hey, you generated 517Wh during this visit!\"

500Wh would be alot
Not really. I pump out a lot more than that on my all-day rides,
especially when riding alone or with just one fast rider. Cycling pros
can do that in less than 2h.
sure, about half a tour de France stage
https://www.velonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/CAS-stage-8-file.jpeg

but how many people spend several hours at those power levels at the gym?

Almost no one. Those are phenomenal numbers only achievable by people with the genetic endowment to achieve them. All the training and determination in the world will not compensate for absence of the genetic endowment. And conversely the superb genetic endowment won\'t amount to anything without the training to realize it. The three main factors are peak heart volumetric flow per contraction, VO2max, and the right mix of fast/slow twitch fibers in your main drivers, the leg muscles, which need the capability for peak power as well as suppleness. And despite all that, some of those maniacs still cheat for even more power performance- I like the blood transfusion immediately before the race trick.

 

[RichD]

On February 24, Don Y wrote:

I use the elliptical machine regularly, it\'s
the best full body workout,
I wonder, how do they implement the variable
resistance? hmmmm... a viscous damper? Place
a rubber diaphragm around the pushrods, fill
it with liquid, squeeze the bag with a stepping
motor, adjusting the viscosity.
Or maybe magnetic? Probably too expensive, though
more interesting and elegant, to a EE.

Motor (acting as generator) with a variable \"load\"?

A dissipative varistor load? What/how?

--
Rich

 

[Joerg]

On 2/25/23 12:24 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 1:34:35 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2/24/23 5:06 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

[...]

For cyclists they have trainers you set your rear axle in and adjust
resistance with your gearing. That\'s probably the best cycling
training you can get because you\'re using the real thing, your bike.

True, but you burn up tires and chains without getting any real miles. I
prefer real miles. In the wind, the trees flying by, the real deal. Even
when the weather isn\'t so great. However, that doesn\'t do anything for
upper body fitness. Since my lower back issues don\'t allow me to lift a
kayak I joined a gym with rowing machines for that.

That\'s true about the trainer. The major component missing is wind resistance.

IIRC you only have to be doing about 15 MPH to require about 2/3 of your work for overcoming wind resistance.

Or a lot more with a headwind and Murphy\'s law says you\'ll also have a
headwind on the way back

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/