economic chaos...

[rbowman]

On 08/26/2022 02:43 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 26. august 2022 kl. 21.49.47 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:44:43 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
fredag den 26. august 2022 kl. 21.41.56 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 18:32:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Aug 2022 07:09:16 -0700) it happened
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
8tkhgh9lioqvmrnd7...@4ax.com>:


https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

They have been misguided by US [lacking]intelligence to leave the EU
Same US forced them to dict Huawei
and replace their near perfect VTOL fighter aircraft by F35 crap.

Boris Nonsense was a US clown.

We should keep our LNG at home. You guys can wear three pairs of sox
and burn candles, or euros.
if you had a bunch of LNG and someone would pay 3x for it would you keep it at home?
Yes, because it costs 2x to liq., ship and deliq. That\'s why prices are over 5x.

ok, if prices are 5x will you keep it at home?

For political reasons, yes. But the 5x assumes liquefaction and
shipping costs, at the destination.

And we don\'t have enough LNG facilities to export much of our NG. And
there\'s a lot more waiting to be fracked.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51818

9.7 billion cubic feet per day is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[server]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 22:27:07 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:

On 08/26/2022 02:43 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 26. august 2022 kl. 21.49.47 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:44:43 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
fredag den 26. august 2022 kl. 21.41.56 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 18:32:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Aug 2022 07:09:16 -0700) it happened
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
8tkhgh9lioqvmrnd7...@4ax.com>:


https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

They have been misguided by US [lacking]intelligence to leave the EU
Same US forced them to dict Huawei
and replace their near perfect VTOL fighter aircraft by F35 crap.

Boris Nonsense was a US clown.

We should keep our LNG at home. You guys can wear three pairs of sox
and burn candles, or euros.
if you had a bunch of LNG and someone would pay 3x for it would you keep it at home?
Yes, because it costs 2x to liq., ship and deliq. That\'s why prices are over 5x.

ok, if prices are 5x will you keep it at home?

For political reasons, yes. But the 5x assumes liquefaction and
shipping costs, at the destination.

And we don\'t have enough LNG facilities to export much of our NG. And
there\'s a lot more waiting to be fracked.


https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51818

9.7 billion cubic feet per day is nothing to sneeze at.

Around 10% of our consumption.

I did a little work for a plant in Baton Rouge that used a billion
cubic feet per day.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Aug 2022 12:41:46 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<bc8igh10k7coeu6li9g86u43q9kcj8p85n@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 18:32:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Aug 2022 07:09:16 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
8tkhgh9lioqvmrnd7eiefrf7nkd31e8oil@4ax.com>:


https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

They have been misguided by US [lacking]intelligence to leave the EU
Same US forced them to dict Huawei
and replace their near perfect VTOL fighter aircraft by F35 crap.

Boris Nonsense was a US clown.


We should keep our LNG at home. You guys can wear three pairs of sox
and burn candles, or euros.

Well if glowball worming is true things will soon be like Hawaii here
Minus the volcanos that is.

Been a long time since I have been skating here...
And I have half a kW or so of solar power now for \'candles\' and of course a tritium light;-)
My candles melted in the sun that came through the window!
http://panteltje.com/pub/molten_candle_IXIMG_0851.JPG

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Aug 2022 12:39:04 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<fq7ighljjvqkj3ogl6nb1nbshgf1o7fghv@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 18:39:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:51:05 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
ebuhghhstfi1on4tgt7lrsr5bhmov5e6bg@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 7:09:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/


Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It\'s just part of fighting Russian Imperialism. Europe pays in energy bills and we pays in dollar bills.

Shutting down coal and nuke plants, refusing to drill and frack,
depending on wind and solar, *and* depending on Russians for energy
were all dumb decisions. It\'s not like they weren\'t warned.

US imperialism using NATO .
wars everywhere,

France. England. Netherlands. Belgium. Sweden. Germany. Austria.
Italy.

Up until this year, Europe hadn\'t had a war in 75 years. That may be a
historical record.

Wrong, DemonCrate Bill Clignon started a war in EUrope the same way and same tactics ByteThen used
well actually the US Military Industrial Complex Deep shit state that makes him make noises..

I\'m reading The Armada by Garrett Mattingly. It\'s shocking how war
crazed Europe was for so many centuries. Millenia, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana

Oh yes, one ant heap against the other, the strongest one wins and rewrites history.
Its evolution, you got it coming!!

 

[Martin Brown]

On 26/08/2022 15:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It doesn\'t explain the root cause though. The main problem in the UK
right now is that we have almost zero gas storage capability (10 days at
most) - most of the EU countries have around 60-90 days capacity and are
busily filling it up ready for the winter. We are completely at the
mercy of spot market prices because of penny pinching bean counter myopia.

They mothballed the last large UK storage in 2017 and it will take until
Xmas to get it back operational again (just in time for peak shortage).
To buy LNG we will have to outbid everyone else - law of supply and
demand. Supply will be incredibly tight this winter expert predictions
are that another 25% price rise is already in the pipeline for January.
(they got yesterday\'s announcement spot on about 2 months ago)

UK is presently *exporting* gas to the EU for them to fill up their
storage tanks for winter since the pathetic amount we have is full.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/07/21/britains-biggest-gas-storage-site-course-reopen-autumn-race/#

UK relies very heavily on gas 60-70% for making electricity and was
shutting down coal fired power stations (or degrading their maximum
output by shifting over to \"green renewable\" wood pellet burning). We
didn\'t have enough generating capacity to begin with and have less now.

https://grid.iamkate.com

Grid control have already had to buy electricity from Belgium at a
completely insane spot market price to keep the lights on in London and
the SE. Had it been a shortage in the North they\'d have let it drop (as
was evidenced by 2 days we spent off grid after storm Arwen).

They paid 50x the normal rate per MWhr (5000% over the odds)!

https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/07/26/uk-bought-electricity-from-belgium-at-record-prices-last-week-to-keep-the-lights-on/

It could get very interesting this winter with many ordinary people
having to quite literally choose whether to heat their homes or eat!

Businesses that use energy and homes that use fuel oil for heating don\'t
have the protection of the so called energy price cap (a daft concept).

The whole thing is made worse by the fact that the Conservative Party
having ousted The Boris (blond populist demagogue but a bit more erudite
than Trump) is having a leadership election and CBA to run the country.

NB when I write gas above I mean natural gas not petrol.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Martin Brown]

On 26/08/2022 17:51, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 7:09:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It\'s just part of fighting Russian Imperialism. Europe pays in energy bills and we pays in dollar bills.

Shutting down coal and nuke plants, refusing to drill and frack,
depending on wind and solar, *and* depending on Russians for energy
were all dumb decisions. It\'s not like they weren\'t warned.

UK doesn\'t depend on Russia for its gas. The problem is that those that
did are now competing for gas from UK suppliers and are willing to pay a
lot more for it. They also have storage capacity to put it in.

Market forces in action - willing seller and willing buyer. To buy the
stuff now you have to bid more than everybody else that wants it!

UK gas storage capacity was run down to almost nothing in 2017 by some
myopic beancounters so we are at the mercy of spot market prices.

Germany is the country most directly impacted by the Russians turning
off the gas tap sice they were 40% dependent on Russian supply.

ISTR the UK took at most 4% of Russian gas.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[rbowman]

On 08/27/2022 12:31 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Well if glowball worming is true things will soon be like Hawaii here
Minus the volcanos that is.

Been a long time since I have been skating here...
And I have half a kW or so of solar power now for \'candles\' and of course a tritium light;-)
My candles melted in the sun that came through the window!
http://panteltje.com/pub/molten_candle_IXIMG_0851.JPG

I made the mistake of leaving a MP3 player in the car. Like many similar
products it was held together with hot melt glue. Apparently they used
EVA which only has a range up to 80 C.

 

[server]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 09:43:04 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 26/08/2022 15:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It doesn\'t explain the root cause though. The main problem in the UK
right now is that we have almost zero gas storage capability (10 days at
most) - most of the EU countries have around 60-90 days capacity and are
busily filling it up ready for the winter. We are completely at the
mercy of spot market prices because of penny pinching bean counter myopia.

They mothballed the last large UK storage in 2017 and it will take until
Xmas to get it back operational again (just in time for peak shortage).
To buy LNG we will have to outbid everyone else - law of supply and
demand. Supply will be incredibly tight this winter expert predictions
are that another 25% price rise is already in the pipeline for January.
(they got yesterday\'s announcement spot on about 2 months ago)

UK is presently *exporting* gas to the EU for them to fill up their
storage tanks for winter since the pathetic amount we have is full.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/07/21/britains-biggest-gas-storage-site-course-reopen-autumn-race/#

UK relies very heavily on gas 60-70% for making electricity and was
shutting down coal fired power stations (or degrading their maximum
output by shifting over to \"green renewable\" wood pellet burning). We
didn\'t have enough generating capacity to begin with and have less now.

https://grid.iamkate.com

Grid control have already had to buy electricity from Belgium at a
completely insane spot market price to keep the lights on in London and
the SE. Had it been a shortage in the North they\'d have let it drop (as
was evidenced by 2 days we spent off grid after storm Arwen).

They paid 50x the normal rate per MWhr (5000% over the odds)!

https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/07/26/uk-bought-electricity-from-belgium-at-record-prices-last-week-to-keep-the-lights-on/

It could get very interesting this winter with many ordinary people
having to quite literally choose whether to heat their homes or eat!

Businesses that use energy and homes that use fuel oil for heating don\'t
have the protection of the so called energy price cap (a daft concept).

The whole thing is made worse by the fact that the Conservative Party
having ousted The Boris (blond populist demagogue but a bit more erudite
than Trump) is having a leadership election and CBA to run the country.

NB when I write gas above I mean natural gas not petrol.

UK has gas resources and a moratorium on fracking.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 3:40:06 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 09:43:04 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 26/08/2022 15:09, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It doesn\'t explain the root cause though. The main problem in the UK
right now is that we have almost zero gas storage capability (10 days at
most) - most of the EU countries have around 60-90 days capacity and are
busily filling it up ready for the winter. We are completely at the
mercy of spot market prices because of penny pinching bean counter myopia.

They mothballed the last large UK storage in 2017 and it will take until
Xmas to get it back operational again (just in time for peak shortage).
To buy LNG we will have to outbid everyone else - law of supply and
demand. Supply will be incredibly tight this winter expert predictions
are that another 25% price rise is already in the pipeline for January.
(they got yesterday\'s announcement spot on about 2 months ago)

UK is presently *exporting* gas to the EU for them to fill up their
storage tanks for winter since the pathetic amount we have is full.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/07/21/britains-biggest-gas-storage-site-course-reopen-autumn-race/#

<snip>

> UK has gas resources and a moratorium on fracking.

As has been explained to you above , the UK\'s problem isn\'t a shortage of natural gas, but a shortage of places to store against the timer when the winter peak exceeds the flow from the gas fields.

They are selling it at the moment because they haven\'t got any place to store it. If the country were civilised enough to insist on electing only politicians who could think, they wouldn\'t be in this mess, but they voted Boris Johnson in in a landslide, which kept the country going downhill, and while they\'ve now realised that they have to reject him, his replacement is still going to be a Tory.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 27/08/2022 18:39, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 09:43:04 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 26/08/2022 15:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It doesn\'t explain the root cause though. The main problem in the UK
right now is that we have almost zero gas storage capability (10 days at
most) - most of the EU countries have around 60-90 days capacity and are
busily filling it up ready for the winter. We are completely at the
mercy of spot market prices because of penny pinching bean counter myopia.

They mothballed the last large UK storage in 2017 and it will take until
Xmas to get it back operational again (just in time for peak shortage).
To buy LNG we will have to outbid everyone else - law of supply and
demand. Supply will be incredibly tight this winter expert predictions
are that another 25% price rise is already in the pipeline for January.
(they got yesterday\'s announcement spot on about 2 months ago)

UK is presently *exporting* gas to the EU for them to fill up their
storage tanks for winter since the pathetic amount we have is full.
[snip]

UK has gas resources and a moratorium on fracking.

It does indeed but those resources belong to the private companies that
have the licenses to extract and not unreasonably they *always* sell to
the highest bidder for the benefit of *their* shareholders.

Real energy *producers* are making money hand over fist. The middlemen
who buy in bulk and resell to consumers are losing it almost as fast.
The whole thing is a mess caused by ideologically based deregulation.

The massive UK over dependence on gas has the same root cause.

We are no longer gas self sufficient and have to import some in winter,
but the era when we were over supplied encouraged a short term mentality
that shut down all the storage facilities \"to save on overheads\".

Unless the UK matches or exceeds the spot price that other European
customers (now starved of usually cheaper Russian gas) are prepared to
pay we will get no gas at all. The big problem is lack of UK storage
capacity so that they are forced to buy on the spot market no matter
what the price. It is free market wild west devil take the hindmost!

UK geology is massively more complex than in the USA. It isn\'t at all
clear that fracking will produce much on the mainland although it did
cause enough earthquakes to really make the natives restless.

Even if they were fracking the gas would still sell to the highest
bidder. UK is *exporting* large amounts of gas *right now*. Our storage
capacity (what little there is of it) is already *FULL*.

There have been some intemperate utterances by Tory peers to the effect
that they should screw over the north to power the south. eg.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10211109/North-East-is-desolate-says-George-Osbornes-Government-adviser-father-in-law.html?onwardjourney=584162_c1

That is from the Tory mouthpiece newspaper so is putting the most
favourable spin it can on what was a monumental gaffe.

I fully expect rolling power cuts this winter much like in the 3 day
week of the mid 1970\'s when the OPEC induced oil crisis occurred.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[server]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 09:17:54 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 27/08/2022 18:39, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 09:43:04 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 26/08/2022 15:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It doesn\'t explain the root cause though. The main problem in the UK
right now is that we have almost zero gas storage capability (10 days at
most) - most of the EU countries have around 60-90 days capacity and are
busily filling it up ready for the winter. We are completely at the
mercy of spot market prices because of penny pinching bean counter myopia.

They mothballed the last large UK storage in 2017 and it will take until
Xmas to get it back operational again (just in time for peak shortage).
To buy LNG we will have to outbid everyone else - law of supply and
demand. Supply will be incredibly tight this winter expert predictions
are that another 25% price rise is already in the pipeline for January.
(they got yesterday\'s announcement spot on about 2 months ago)

UK is presently *exporting* gas to the EU for them to fill up their
storage tanks for winter since the pathetic amount we have is full.
[snip]


UK has gas resources and a moratorium on fracking.

It does indeed but those resources belong to the private companies that
have the licenses to extract and not unreasonably they *always* sell to
the highest bidder for the benefit of *their* shareholders.

That\'s the way economics usually works.

Real energy *producers* are making money hand over fist. The middlemen
who buy in bulk and resell to consumers are losing it almost as fast.
The whole thing is a mess caused by ideologically based deregulation.

The massive UK over dependence on gas has the same root cause.

What\'s the alternative? Coal?

We have lots of fracked NG in the US and it flows through long
pipelines without a lot of local storage. I think there are some big
caverns for buffering.

We are no longer gas self sufficient and have to import some in winter,
but the era when we were over supplied encouraged a short term mentality
that shut down all the storage facilities \"to save on overheads\".

Unless the UK matches or exceeds the spot price that other European
customers (now starved of usually cheaper Russian gas) are prepared to
pay we will get no gas at all. The big problem is lack of UK storage
capacity so that they are forced to buy on the spot market no matter
what the price. It is free market wild west devil take the hindmost!

Are there gas pipelines under the Channel?

UK geology is massively more complex than in the USA. It isn\'t at all
clear that fracking will produce much on the mainland although it did
cause enough earthquakes to really make the natives restless.

Fracking quakes are tiny. Only neurotic wusses and greenies care.

Even if they were fracking the gas would still sell to the highest
bidder. UK is *exporting* large amounts of gas *right now*. Our storage
capacity (what little there is of it) is already *FULL*.

I know your problem. Bad management!

There have been some intemperate utterances by Tory peers to the effect
that they should screw over the north to power the south. eg.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10211109/North-East-is-desolate-says-George-Osbornes-Government-adviser-father-in-law.html?onwardjourney=584162_c1

That is from the Tory mouthpiece newspaper so is putting the most
favourable spin it can on what was a monumental gaffe.

I fully expect rolling power cuts this winter much like in the 3 day
week of the mid 1970\'s when the OPEC induced oil crisis occurred.

Politicians make bad electrical engineers.

 

[rbowman]

On 08/28/2022 09:10 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 09:17:54 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 27/08/2022 18:39, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 09:43:04 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 26/08/2022 15:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It doesn\'t explain the root cause though. The main problem in the UK
right now is that we have almost zero gas storage capability (10 days at
most) - most of the EU countries have around 60-90 days capacity and are
busily filling it up ready for the winter. We are completely at the
mercy of spot market prices because of penny pinching bean counter myopia.

They mothballed the last large UK storage in 2017 and it will take until
Xmas to get it back operational again (just in time for peak shortage).
To buy LNG we will have to outbid everyone else - law of supply and
demand. Supply will be incredibly tight this winter expert predictions
are that another 25% price rise is already in the pipeline for January.
(they got yesterday\'s announcement spot on about 2 months ago)

UK is presently *exporting* gas to the EU for them to fill up their
storage tanks for winter since the pathetic amount we have is full.
[snip]


UK has gas resources and a moratorium on fracking.

It does indeed but those resources belong to the private companies that
have the licenses to extract and not unreasonably they *always* sell to
the highest bidder for the benefit of *their* shareholders.

That\'s the way economics usually works.

Real energy *producers* are making money hand over fist. The middlemen
who buy in bulk and resell to consumers are losing it almost as fast.
The whole thing is a mess caused by ideologically based deregulation.

The massive UK over dependence on gas has the same root cause.

What\'s the alternative? Coal?

That ship sailed in \'65.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Act_1965

The British Gas Corporation was privatized under Thatcher but the
conversion from coal gas (town gas) to natural gas was completed much
earlier.

The conversion was a detriment to some. Coal gas had a high percentage
of carbon monoxide and was a favorite of suicides. Natural gas had
little or no CO and was wasn\'t suitable other than blowing up your flat
and hoping for the best.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/troy-gasholder-building

Interesting artifact. I had an apartment in a brownstone a couple of
blocks from the gas house. The mantles and globes were long gone but the
gas fixtures were still hooked up and would light although I assume it
was natural gas.

It sounds like Britain might be better off the the BGC wasn\'t privatized.

 

[server]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 11:33:10 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:

On 08/28/2022 09:10 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 09:17:54 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 27/08/2022 18:39, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 09:43:04 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 26/08/2022 15:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/26/govt-energy-regulator-confirms-britons-will-be-hammered-80-per-cent-bill-hike/

Gosh, civilization was working pretty well for a while.

It doesn\'t explain the root cause though. The main problem in the UK
right now is that we have almost zero gas storage capability (10 days at
most) - most of the EU countries have around 60-90 days capacity and are
busily filling it up ready for the winter. We are completely at the
mercy of spot market prices because of penny pinching bean counter myopia.

They mothballed the last large UK storage in 2017 and it will take until
Xmas to get it back operational again (just in time for peak shortage).
To buy LNG we will have to outbid everyone else - law of supply and
demand. Supply will be incredibly tight this winter expert predictions
are that another 25% price rise is already in the pipeline for January.
(they got yesterday\'s announcement spot on about 2 months ago)

UK is presently *exporting* gas to the EU for them to fill up their
storage tanks for winter since the pathetic amount we have is full.
[snip]


UK has gas resources and a moratorium on fracking.

It does indeed but those resources belong to the private companies that
have the licenses to extract and not unreasonably they *always* sell to
the highest bidder for the benefit of *their* shareholders.

That\'s the way economics usually works.

Real energy *producers* are making money hand over fist. The middlemen
who buy in bulk and resell to consumers are losing it almost as fast.
The whole thing is a mess caused by ideologically based deregulation.

The massive UK over dependence on gas has the same root cause.

What\'s the alternative? Coal?

That ship sailed in \'65.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Act_1965

The British Gas Corporation was privatized under Thatcher but the
conversion from coal gas (town gas) to natural gas was completed much
earlier.

The conversion was a detriment to some. Coal gas had a high percentage
of carbon monoxide and was a favorite of suicides. Natural gas had
little or no CO and was wasn\'t suitable other than blowing up your flat
and hoping for the best.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/troy-gasholder-building

Beautiful building. Few modern architects dare to do beauty.

Interesting artifact. I had an apartment in a brownstone a couple of
blocks from the gas house. The mantles and globes were long gone but the
gas fixtures were still hooked up and would light although I assume it
was natural gas.

It sounds like Britain might be better off the the BGC wasn\'t privatized.

Old Brit mysteries had the bad guys turning on the gas valves, or
sticking a damsel\'s head in the oven, to kill people with CO.

My old Victorian, built in 1892, had capped-off gas pipes into the
electric fixtures. And horrible knob-and-tube wiring. It\'s a miracle
it didn\'t burn down in 100 years.

 

[rbowman]

On 08/28/2022 11:47 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> Beautiful building. Few modern architects dare to do beauty.

For all its problems the Third Reich wanted buildings designed such that
they would be scenic ruins in a thousand years. Modern architects
expected their creations to be demolished in a thousand months.

Old Brit mysteries had the bad guys turning on the gas valves, or
sticking a damsel\'s head in the oven, to kill people with CO.

Sylvia Plath would have had to come up with a different exit strategy
had she waited a few more years.

My old Victorian, built in 1892, had capped-off gas pipes into the
electric fixtures. And horrible knob-and-tube wiring. It\'s a miracle
it didn\'t burn down in 100 years.

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Troy-given-a-19th-century-NYC-look-for-filming-16186907.php


https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7236542,-73.6919453,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9VacPu6hqObdc5wsXYymcA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D9VacPu6hqObdc5wsXYymcA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D8.034401%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

https://tinyurl.com/2p8vavb3

I lived in the house with the bay windows. Rotating 180 degrees would be
a view of the Washington Park mentioned in the article. Troy is a bit of
a time capsule. The area went downhill starting in the \'50s as industry
left. There wasn\'t enough money to do the extensive \'urban renewal\' that
gutted other NY state cities.

The last time I was back was in 2004 and not much had changed. The
population was almost the same as in the \'60s although the demographics
had changed a bit as the blacks were driven out by the gentrification of
Albany. That\'s not a good thing in the US. If it isn\'t growing, it\'s
dying. At least being a setting for the filming of period pieces will
bring a few dollars in.

 

[server]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 14:44:02 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:

On 08/28/2022 11:47 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Beautiful building. Few modern architects dare to do beauty.

For all its problems the Third Reich wanted buildings designed such that
they would be scenic ruins in a thousand years. Modern architects
expected their creations to be demolished in a thousand months.

Old Brit mysteries had the bad guys turning on the gas valves, or
sticking a damsel\'s head in the oven, to kill people with CO.

Sylvia Plath would have had to come up with a different exit strategy
had she waited a few more years.


My old Victorian, built in 1892, had capped-off gas pipes into the
electric fixtures. And horrible knob-and-tube wiring. It\'s a miracle
it didn\'t burn down in 100 years.


https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Troy-given-a-19th-century-NYC-look-for-filming-16186907.php


https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7236542,-73.6919453,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9VacPu6hqObdc5wsXYymcA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D9VacPu6hqObdc5wsXYymcA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D8.034401%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

https://tinyurl.com/2p8vavb3

I lived in the house with the bay windows. Rotating 180 degrees would be
a view of the Washington Park mentioned in the article. Troy is a bit of
a time capsule. The area went downhill starting in the \'50s as industry
left. There wasn\'t enough money to do the extensive \'urban renewal\' that
gutted other NY state cities.

The last time I was back was in 2004 and not much had changed. The
population was almost the same as in the \'60s although the demographics
had changed a bit as the blacks were driven out by the gentrification of
Albany. That\'s not a good thing in the US. If it isn\'t growing, it\'s
dying. At least being a setting for the filming of period pieces will
bring a few dollars in.

This is a recently constructed apartment near where I work. It\'s a
start, anyway.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/odtw9e9jumdjoth/18th_St_Bricks.jpg?raw=1

 

[rbowman]

On 08/28/2022 05:08 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

This is a recently constructed apartment near where I work. It\'s a
start, anyway.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/odtw9e9jumdjoth/18th_St_Bricks.jpg?raw=1

It looks industrial but at least it isn\'t PoMo. I\'m amused at the
attempts to get PoMo eyesores on the historic buildings register to save
them from Howard Roark style remodeling.

 

[server]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 21:13:44 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:

On 08/28/2022 05:08 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This is a recently constructed apartment near where I work. It\'s a
start, anyway.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/odtw9e9jumdjoth/18th_St_Bricks.jpg?raw=1


It looks industrial but at least it isn\'t PoMo. I\'m amused at the
attempts to get PoMo eyesores on the historic buildings register to save
them from Howard Roark style remodeling.

There are bits of it that are actually *curved*. And even
*decorative*.

It\'s not even grey. Somebody\'s gonna lose his architecture license.

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:41:20 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 21:13:44 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com
wrote:
On 08/28/2022 05:08 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This is a recently constructed apartment near where I work. It\'s a
start, anyway.

It\'s not even grey. Somebody\'s gonna lose his architecture license.

The facing looks like prebuilt \"brick\" tile veneer; it\'s very expensive (masons, scaffolding)
to do brick on-site with that many parts, so... they sell panels, suitable for covering grey concrete.
The diagonal \'brickwork\', for instance, is clearly applied-like-tile, not true brick at all.

It\'s a quicker cosmetic solution than planting ivy.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 28/08/2022 16:10, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 09:17:54 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

Real energy *producers* are making money hand over fist. The middlemen
who buy in bulk and resell to consumers are losing it almost as fast.
The whole thing is a mess caused by ideologically based deregulation.

The massive UK over dependence on gas has the same root cause.

What\'s the alternative? Coal?

Not really there are very few coal powered plants left. The biggest one
Drax was downgraded to run on \"green\" wood pellets some years ago.

We have lots of fracked NG in the US and it flows through long
pipelines without a lot of local storage. I think there are some big
caverns for buffering.

Back when we had significant flows from the North Sea gas fields was
when they decided that having storage facilities was unnecessary. It
most easily restarted one has been mothballed for long enough (~5 years)
that a safe restart is distinctly non-trivial.

We are no longer gas self sufficient and have to import some in winter,
but the era when we were over supplied encouraged a short term mentality
that shut down all the storage facilities \"to save on overheads\".

Unless the UK matches or exceeds the spot price that other European
customers (now starved of usually cheaper Russian gas) are prepared to
pay we will get no gas at all. The big problem is lack of UK storage
capacity so that they are forced to buy on the spot market no matter
what the price. It is free market wild west devil take the hindmost!

Are there gas pipelines under the Channel?

Yes. They are presently helping other European countries fill up their
storage facilities for the winter. UK can accept LNG at its terminals
and move it on. This time of year in the warmth of summer we have plenty
of surplus gas (but nowhere to store it).

UK government is so clueless that they have threatened to close them off
it we go short supply! When what we would actually need is for the flow
to be reversed during winter (which is what happens in a normal winter)
so that we can take gas back from European bulk storage.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2022/jun/29/uk-contingency-plan-to-shut-gas-pipelines-to-europe-would-be-madness

We will of course have to pay a usurious price on the spot market.

UK geology is massively more complex than in the USA. It isn\'t at all
clear that fracking will produce much on the mainland although it did
cause enough earthquakes to really make the natives restless.

Fracking quakes are tiny. Only neurotic wusses and greenies care.

Remember the UK is quite a small country densely populated and isn\'t
used to earthquakes. Hence the \"frack the desolate North\" jibe.

Even if they were fracking the gas would still sell to the highest
bidder. UK is *exporting* large amounts of gas *right now*. Our storage
capacity (what little there is of it) is already *FULL*.

I know your problem. Bad management!

Mainly it is career politicians who are almost without exception
innumerate.

There have been some intemperate utterances by Tory peers to the effect
that they should screw over the north to power the south. eg.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10211109/North-East-is-desolate-says-George-Osbornes-Government-adviser-father-in-law.html?onwardjourney=584162_c1

That is from the Tory mouthpiece newspaper so is putting the most
favourable spin it can on what was a monumental gaffe.

I fully expect rolling power cuts this winter much like in the 3 day
week of the mid 1970\'s when the OPEC induced oil crisis occurred.

Politicians make bad electrical engineers.

They make pretty lousy politicians too. Anyone who actually wants to be
a politician is singularly unsuited to doing that job well.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Martin Brown]

On 29/08/2022 04:41, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 21:13:44 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com
wrote:

On 08/28/2022 05:08 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This is a recently constructed apartment near where I work. It\'s a
start, anyway.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/odtw9e9jumdjoth/18th_St_Bricks.jpg?raw=1


It looks industrial but at least it isn\'t PoMo. I\'m amused at the
attempts to get PoMo eyesores on the historic buildings register to save
them from Howard Roark style remodeling.


There are bits of it that are actually *curved*. And even
*decorative*.

It\'s not even grey. Somebody\'s gonna lose his architecture license.

It looks a bit like an imitation cotton mill to me. Converting them into
homes has been all the rage in places like Manchester.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-an-old-cotton-mill-in-manchester-converted-into-apartments-uk-41298921.html

Perhaps a little more industrial that yours...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown