Drone Attack

[Rick C]

I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down. Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:21:04 -0700, Rick C wrote:

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell
which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.

Let's just be thankful it wasn't Hitlary calling the shots or we'd all be
dying from radiation poisoning by now.




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[Clive Arthur]

On 23/06/2019 20:21, Rick C wrote:

I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down. Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.

Maybe there's some embarrassment. AIUI, the *very expensive* drone was
flying at a high altitude yet seemingly was unable to avoid a SAM. Not
good.

And a 'cyber attack'? I mean, we can all announce that, but who'd ever
know?

Cheers
--
Clive

 

[Mike Perkins]

On 23/06/2019 23:01, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 23/06/2019 20:21, Rick C wrote:
I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to
not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone.  It said he was
at the point of either saying attack or to stand down.  Thankfully he
stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted
and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before
deciding it was not proportional?  Was this part of his strategy to
draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without
striking?  Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the
number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute?  Why
didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack?  Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell
which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.


Maybe there's some embarrassment.  AIUI, the *very expensive* drone was
flying at a high altitude yet seemingly was unable to avoid a SAM.  Not
good.

And a 'cyber attack'?  I mean, we can all announce that, but who'd ever
know?

Cheers

It was said that after Stuxnet Iran had one of the world's greatest
hacking ability, probably nothing like the $50b dollars for the US
budget, but I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of an attack.

Also making a cyber attack, isn't this like poker, best keep your cards
close to ones chest until you really need to show them?

--
Mike Perkins
Video Solutions Ltd
www.videosolutions.ltd.uk

 

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:21:08 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down. Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

The most straightforward thing to do is to disable a port where they load oil. Then the Chinese come into play and the price of oil spikes. I think his tactic of keeping up the sanctions is winning because Iran is doing desperate things.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 23/06/19 23:55, blocher@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:21:08 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not
attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the
point of either saying attack or to stand down. Thankfully he stood down
as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not
proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before
deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw
his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking?
Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number
of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask
before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell
which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code -
https://ts.la/richard11209

The most straightforward thing to do is to disable a port where they load
oil. Then the Chinese come into play and the price of oil spikes. I think
his tactic of keeping up the sanctions is winning because Iran is doing
desperate things.

I think the tactic of running into the road without looking is
working because I haven't been knocked down (yet).

But it will be "interesting" if/when the Chinese build a
railroad/pipeline into the area through Afghanistan.

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:01:52 PM UTC-4, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 23/06/2019 20:21, Rick C wrote:
I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down. Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.


Maybe there's some embarrassment. AIUI, the *very expensive* drone was
flying at a high altitude yet seemingly was unable to avoid a SAM. Not
good.

Fighter pilots can avoid a missile if they see the light burst on launch. A warning later doesn't give them enough time to dodge a SAM.

So why would you expect a slower and less agile drone to be able to outmaneuver a SAM?

And a 'cyber attack'? I mean, we can all announce that, but who'd ever
know?

It doesn't matter if anyone else knows. The victims of the cyber attack know.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 7:17:56 PM UTC-4, Mike Perkins wrote:

On 23/06/2019 23:01, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 23/06/2019 20:21, Rick C wrote:
I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to
not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone.  It said he was
at the point of either saying attack or to stand down.  Thankfully he
stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted
and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before
deciding it was not proportional?  Was this part of his strategy to
draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without
striking?  Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the
number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute?  Why
didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack?  Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell
which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.


Maybe there's some embarrassment.  AIUI, the *very expensive* drone was
flying at a high altitude yet seemingly was unable to avoid a SAM.  Not
good.

And a 'cyber attack'?  I mean, we can all announce that, but who'd ever
know?

Cheers


It was said that after Stuxnet Iran had one of the world's greatest
hacking ability, probably nothing like the $50b dollars for the US
budget, but I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of an attack.

Also making a cyber attack, isn't this like poker, best keep your cards
close to ones chest until you really need to show them?

Yeah, I was surprised they used the cyber attack as a means of annoyance. It's not like it is a weapon that can be used over and over. More like a 6 shooter or however many ways they can attack them. They will be prepared for that attack if we try to use it again. Maybe this was one that was fairly lame and not a big deal to burn it.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

trader4@optonline.net wrote in news:cce09c28-606f-459f-acdb-
0c0452a8615b@googlegroups.com:

No, he actually ordered the attack, then got cold feet at the last
minute.

The entire thing was staged.

Our boys in the pentagon are a lot more paranoid about Iran
gaining continued nuke tech and provisions than our politically
motivated leaders are.

But they also know about psychological outcomes.

The whole thing... saying they though it to be not proportional,
etc.

All a pre-stage so that ANY new asset attacks by them ARE going to
be met with a take out of the offending launch station and perhaps a
string of coastal tracking stations as well.

You can bet that those will be the first assets to go once Iran
again steps over the line.

Mark my words... we will be taking actaions against Iran for
violations of law in international waters, and the UN will also
condemn their behavior.

It is time to stop lolly-gagging around and beat up the few
remaining despots spreading hate messages and death hardware all
over the place.

In other words... before the word can truly be a civil place, a
few straggling asshole factions still need to have their faces
slapped.

Honorable Muslims do not attack other humans, and that includes
folks not muslim.

Muslim extremists DO attack folks, because the stupid bastards
have convoluted the very doctrime that is supposed to keep us all
civil. Period.

Work still to be done.

The NK thing is simply a CHILD in place as the despot.

We beat the fuck out of Iran (a bit), and NK will open their eyes a
bit more widely.

No room in a civil world for idiots growing up isolated in their
bedroom getting dangerous toys to beat up on folks who called them
names in school.

If that were how it is, Most of you all would be dead by now,
because I'd have culled over half the nation. None of you fuckers
are worthy... of much other than a bullet.

Naaah... I'm the sanest guy in the whole place.

I'd rather help colonize the Moon. Then I could simply leave you
all behind and watch from up there as you all kill each other,
because the timid fucks can't figure out that there is still a bit
of aggression to be directed here and there. So just blow it all
the hell up.

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 10:03:23 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:21:08 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down.

No, he actually ordered the attack, then got cold feet at the last
minute.


Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

Except of course the position of Trump and most Republicans has been
that if Iran provokes us, we should respond with overwhelming force.
So, we'll see how this sits with them. Already they are falling in line
behind Dear Leader. That gas bag Hannity on Thursday night on TV was
calling for bombing the crap out of Iran. On Friday, after Trump chickened
out, Hannity was calling that brilliant, a smart move, that shows how
cautious and careful Trump is. ROFL.

Yeah, they are going to play it the way that want people to see it.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Oh please. It's been very obvious from day one that Trump is in way over
his head and doesn't know WTF he's doing. But all Americans should be
very worried over what they just saw. By Trump's own words, he ordered
the attack and just ten minutes before missiles, bombs flew, he says he
asked a general, will people die? Trump says the general said, I'll have
to check and then came back and said about 150 will die. And Trump says
then he called it off. If that is even partly true, then WTF is going on?
How does our military brief the president on an attack like this and not
include casualty estimates? How does a president not ask? (Sadly we know
the answer to that, Trump is a moron). Imagine this loony tunes with the
Cuban Missile Crisis.

I recall reading that during the Cuban missile crisis the White House received a message from Russia that they would talk or something similar. Then they received a message that was highly belligerent. John and Bobby decided to ignore the belligerent message and respond to the conciliatory message..

I'm trying to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. He does seem to be pretty bad at many things, but I'm thinking negotiations may not be his weak point. We will see. He is still talking very aggressive to Iran.

The thing I don't get is what bug was up his butt in the first place that he imposed the sanctions. Iran has said several times they are willing to return to that agreement. I understand our allies are saying we should return to that agreement. What is Trump saying Iran did to violate the agreement? If he can't state that clearly, how will Iran ever give him what he wants?

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.


Well, that alone tells you all you need to know, doesn't it? I agree,
a lot of it doesn't make sense. Clearly Trump could not have asked a
general just 10 mins before no return, with the general saying he needed
to check on casualty estimates, and then getting an answer that fast.
Also, what does it tell you about Trump that he's so stupid that he tweeted
out what you're now talking about? He lies all the time, he could have
said some new intel came in that lead to calling it off, leave it at that..
Instead he exposed that he's an idiot.

I agree that it is possible he simply changed his mind. But don't you think it is within his abilities to have planned this? Isn't part of his negotiating style to have another party deeply interested in making a "deal" and keep hammering them for more and more, then getting it? Isn't it possible this will work?

Not convinced? Trump decided to do it again! From about Wed on the WH
and Trump were saying that ICE was going to do a big nationwide raid on
illegal aliens, ones that are recent arrivals, have been through circle
jerking our courts and where the courts have issued FINAL DEPORTATION
orders. It was going to be at least 2,000, across the country, this
weekend. On Sat, nothing had happened, WH said it was coming Sunday.
Today Trump tweeted, never mind, he's called it off. Why? Trump says
Democrats asked him to do it, that they need time to work with the GOP
on asylum laws and solving the border crisis. Say what? First, Democrats
would love nothing more than the imagery of Trump's ICE rounding up
illegal aliens and deporting them, so it's extremely unlikely they came
to Trump, hat in hand. But more importantly, WTF does that have to do
with deporting recent arrivals who have been through the courts with
final deportation orders? What's Trump going to do with the Dems, give
them amnesty? And that's not just 2000 for this weekend there are 145K
that came in just last month! Trump, the tough talking BS artist ran
promising to deport 11 mil+ illegals in just a year or two! Now he just
wussed out and reversed himself on deporting a couple thousand.

Are that many really coming across the border? That's 5,000 each day! Where do they all go? Seems like that many would be very visible on their way to population centers.

Only question remaining is why the trumpets continue to believe the
lying shyster.

I dunno...

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

trader4@optonline.net wrote in
news:cce09c28-606f-459f-acdb-0c0452a8615b@googlegroups.com:

Except of course the position of Trump and most Republicans has
been that if Iran provokes us, we should respond with overwhelming
force. So, we'll see how this sits with them. Already they are
falling in line behind Dear Leader. That gas bag Hannity on
Thursday night on TV was calling for bombing the crap out of Iran.
On Friday, after Trump chickened out, Hannity was calling that
brilliant, a smart move, that shows how cautious and careful Trump
is. ROFL.

Hannity is an idiot. He flips around like a fish on the beach.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zarsqZCXO8Y>

 

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:21:08 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
> I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down.

No, he actually ordered the attack, then got cold feet at the last
minute.


> Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

Except of course the position of Trump and most Republicans has been
that if Iran provokes us, we should respond with overwhelming force.
So, we'll see how this sits with them. Already they are falling in line
behind Dear Leader. That gas bag Hannity on Thursday night on TV was
calling for bombing the crap out of Iran. On Friday, after Trump chickened
out, Hannity was calling that brilliant, a smart move, that shows how
cautious and careful Trump is. ROFL.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Oh please. It's been very obvious from day one that Trump is in way over
his head and doesn't know WTF he's doing. But all Americans should be
very worried over what they just saw. By Trump's own words, he ordered
the attack and just ten minutes before missiles, bombs flew, he says he
asked a general, will people die? Trump says the general said, I'll have
to check and then came back and said about 150 will die. And Trump says
then he called it off. If that is even partly true, then WTF is going on?
How does our military brief the president on an attack like this and not
include casualty estimates? How does a president not ask? (Sadly we know
the answer to that, Trump is a moron). Imagine this loony tunes with the
Cuban Missile Crisis.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.

Well, that alone tells you all you need to know, doesn't it? I agree,
a lot of it doesn't make sense. Clearly Trump could not have asked a
general just 10 mins before no return, with the general saying he needed
to check on casualty estimates, and then getting an answer that fast.
Also, what does it tell you about Trump that he's so stupid that he tweeted
out what you're now talking about? He lies all the time, he could have
said some new intel came in that lead to calling it off, leave it at that.
Instead he exposed that he's an idiot.

Not convinced? Trump decided to do it again! From about Wed on the WH
and Trump were saying that ICE was going to do a big nationwide raid on
illegal aliens, ones that are recent arrivals, have been through circle
jerking our courts and where the courts have issued FINAL DEPORTATION
orders. It was going to be at least 2,000, across the country, this
weekend. On Sat, nothing had happened, WH said it was coming Sunday.
Today Trump tweeted, never mind, he's called it off. Why? Trump says
Democrats asked him to do it, that they need time to work with the GOP
on asylum laws and solving the border crisis. Say what? First, Democrats
would love nothing more than the imagery of Trump's ICE rounding up
illegal aliens and deporting them, so it's extremely unlikely they came
to Trump, hat in hand. But more importantly, WTF does that have to do
with deporting recent arrivals who have been through the courts with
final deportation orders? What's Trump going to do with the Dems, give
them amnesty? And that's not just 2000 for this weekend there are 145K
that came in just last month! Trump, the tough talking BS artist ran
promising to deport 11 mil+ illegals in just a year or two! Now he just
wussed out and reversed himself on deporting a couple thousand.

Only question remaining is why the trumpets continue to believe the
lying shyster.

 

Clive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote in
news:qeossb$5bv$1@dont-email.me:

Maybe there's some embarrassment. AIUI, the *very expensive*
drone was flying at a high altitude yet seemingly was unable to
avoid a SAM. Not good.

Drones do not take evasive measures. They are not fighter jet agile.

They fly straight and true and typically go unnoticed. Their remote
pilot would have seen the lock on and the subsequent launch detection
and closing distance, but knows that there is not much chance of
performing any succesful evasive measures against modern AA missile
tech.

 

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:01:52 PM UTC-4, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 23/06/2019 20:21, Rick C wrote:
I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down. Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.


Maybe there's some embarrassment. AIUI, the *very expensive* drone was
flying at a high altitude yet seemingly was unable to avoid a SAM. Not
good.

How exactly do you propose that an unarmed drone avoid a SAM? The Russians
demonstrated in the 50s that they could reach U2 altitudes and technology
has only gotten much better since then.

And a 'cyber attack'? I mean, we can all announce that, but who'd ever
know?

Cheers
--
Clive

 

trader4@optonline.net wrote in news:cce09c28-606f-459f-acdb-
0c0452a8615b@googlegroups.com:

Only question remaining is why the trumpets continue to believe the
lying shyster.

Because they are not "trumpets", they are 'Trumpanzee RETARDS'
Self retarded... the worst kind.

Like you with your 'libs' obsession. Absolutely RETARDED.

 

[Clive Arthur]

On 24/06/2019 03:14, Rick C wrote:
> On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:01:52 PM UTC-4, Clive Arthur wrote:

<snipped>

Maybe there's some embarrassment. AIUI, the *very expensive* drone was
flying at a high altitude yet seemingly was unable to avoid a SAM. Not
good.

Fighter pilots can avoid a missile if they see the light burst on launch. A warning later doesn't give them enough time to dodge a SAM.

So why would you expect a slower and less agile drone to be able to outmaneuver a SAM?

I wouldn't know, but if it can't protect itself then it becomes little
more than an expensive target drone.

Cheers
--
Clive

 

[bitrex]

On 6/23/19 3:21 PM, Rick C wrote:

I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down. Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

It's irresponsible to use the military as a vehicle of brinkmanship if
that's what it was. Intrinsically dangerous to the crews and personnel
too, to start revving up all that hardware and loading up planes with
fuel and weapons and then pull back. shoot. or don't shoot.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.

 

[bitrex]

On 6/23/19 10:03 PM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:21:08 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone. It said he was at the point of either saying attack or to stand down.

No, he actually ordered the attack, then got cold feet at the last
minute.


Thankfully he stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

Except of course the position of Trump and most Republicans has been
that if Iran provokes us, we should respond with overwhelming force.
So, we'll see how this sits with them. Already they are falling in line
behind Dear Leader. That gas bag Hannity on Thursday night on TV was
calling for bombing the crap out of Iran. On Friday, after Trump chickened
out, Hannity was calling that brilliant, a smart move, that shows how
cautious and careful Trump is. ROFL.




What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before deciding it was not proportional? Was this part of his strategy to draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without striking? Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Oh please. It's been very obvious from day one that Trump is in way over
his head and doesn't know WTF he's doing. But all Americans should be
very worried over what they just saw. By Trump's own words, he ordered
the attack and just ten minutes before missiles, bombs flew, he says he
asked a general, will people die? Trump says the general said, I'll have
to check and then came back and said about 150 will die. And Trump says
then he called it off. If that is even partly true, then WTF is going on?
How does our military brief the president on an attack like this and not
include casualty estimates? How does a president not ask? (Sadly we know
the answer to that, Trump is a moron). Imagine this loony tunes with the
Cuban Missile Crisis.

A commanding officer in e.g. WWII who ordered all the planes loaded up
on the flight decks with fuel and bombs and powered up and then called
it off at the last moment without an extremely good reason to report to
the admiralty would be relieved.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute? Why didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack? Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.


Well, that alone tells you all you need to know, doesn't it? I agree,
a lot of it doesn't make sense. Clearly Trump could not have asked a
general just 10 mins before no return, with the general saying he needed
to check on casualty estimates, and then getting an answer that fast.
Also, what does it tell you about Trump that he's so stupid that he tweeted
out what you're now talking about? He lies all the time, he could have
said some new intel came in that lead to calling it off, leave it at that.
Instead he exposed that he's an idiot.

Not convinced? Trump decided to do it again! From about Wed on the WH
and Trump were saying that ICE was going to do a big nationwide raid on
illegal aliens, ones that are recent arrivals, have been through circle
jerking our courts and where the courts have issued FINAL DEPORTATION
orders. It was going to be at least 2,000, across the country, this
weekend. On Sat, nothing had happened, WH said it was coming Sunday.
Today Trump tweeted, never mind, he's called it off. Why? Trump says
Democrats asked him to do it, that they need time to work with the GOP
on asylum laws and solving the border crisis. Say what? First, Democrats
would love nothing more than the imagery of Trump's ICE rounding up
illegal aliens and deporting them, so it's extremely unlikely they came
to Trump, hat in hand. But more importantly, WTF does that have to do
with deporting recent arrivals who have been through the courts with
final deportation orders? What's Trump going to do with the Dems, give
them amnesty? And that's not just 2000 for this weekend there are 145K
that came in just last month! Trump, the tough talking BS artist ran
promising to deport 11 mil+ illegals in just a year or two! Now he just
wussed out and reversed himself on deporting a couple thousand.

Only question remaining is why the trumpets continue to believe the
lying shyster.

 

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 10:37:12 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

trader4@optonline.net wrote in news:cce09c28-606f-459f-acdb-
0c0452a8615b@googlegroups.com:

No, he actually ordered the attack, then got cold feet at the last
minute.


The entire thing was staged.

Zero evidence of that and the alternate explanation, Trump stupidity,
fits perfectly and we've seen that many times before and since too,
with his flip now on deportation.

Our boys in the pentagon are a lot more paranoid about Iran
gaining continued nuke tech and provisions than our politically
motivated leaders are.

But they also know about psychological outcomes.

The whole thing... saying they though it to be not proportional,
etc.

All a pre-stage so that ANY new asset attacks by them ARE going to
be met with a take out of the offending launch station and perhaps a
string of coastal tracking stations as well.

You can bet that those will be the first assets to go once Iran
again steps over the line.

Mark my words... we will be taking actaions against Iran for
violations of law in international waters, and the UN will also
condemn their behavior.

That seems likely, given that Trump has started waging war against Iran.
That's right, war. Iran was complying with the agreement reached by the
US and five other countries with Iran. Trump reneged and then started
waging war against Iran, by not only cutting off US trade, but also using
the might of the US to force most other companies around the world to
also cut off trade. That has caused a depression in Iran. The US
would consider any such action against us an act of war. And it would
make Americans take the side of their own govt, over the foreign
country, exactly the opposite of what we want in Iran.

It is time to stop lolly-gagging around and beat up the few
remaining despots spreading hate messages and death hardware all
over the place.

That's something coming from you, who spreads hate, vulgarity, name calling
and calls for physical violence against people you don't like here.
As for going around and beating up despots, how well did that go in Iraq?
Afghanistan? Vietnam? Hello? Why is it our job to be the policeman
to fix problems in the Mideast, instead of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE,
Turkey, etc?

In other words... before the word can truly be a civil place, a
few straggling asshole factions still need to have their faces
slapped.

Sure, and how well did that go in Iraq? Afghanistan? Vietnam?
And don't tell me, go tell Trump, he's the one that got cold feet.
Like most things, he's on both sides of the issue. He campaigned
saying we should stay out of the Mideast, not be the world's policeman,
yet he has a big hard-on to go fix Iran's wagon. Mostly that's because
he hates Obama and anything and everything Obama did must be bad,
so he reneged on the nuke deal. A nuke deal that had Iran's nuke
development halted and which they were complying with. Trump is so
terminally stupid, that stopping Iran from developing nukes isn't
nearly enough. He insists that Iran must turn into Jordan or Sweden.
Good luck with that. We've spent 18 years in Afghanistan now,
thousands of our military dead, tens of thousands wounded, crippled for
life. And not only isn't it Jordan or Sweden, the Afghans still can't
stand on their own, the Taliban still controls a good part of the
country and they are just waiting for us to fold up and leave. Trump
is on the path to a worse mistake in Iran than Bush made in Iraq or
to show that the US is truly impotent, when Iran humiliates him, defies
him and he does nothing.

Honorable Muslims do not attack other humans, and that includes
folks not muslim.

Muslim extremists DO attack folks, because the stupid bastards
have convoluted the very doctrime that is supposed to keep us all
civil. Period.

Work still to be done.

The NK thing is simply a CHILD in place as the despot.

We beat the fuck out of Iran (a bit), and NK will open their eyes a
bit more widely.

Yeah, sure they will. We went to war, took out Saddam, did that make
NK give up their nukes? Actually what KJU just saw was Iran call Trump's
bluff and Trump got cold feet. Trump said the thought of 150 Iranians
getting killed was beyond his risk tolerance. KJU knows that he threatens
the lives of millions and unlike Iran, he has nukes. Expect KJU to act
accordingly. And he will never give up his nukes because he knows that
if he does, then Trump will just renege on that agreement and tell him
that NK must turn into Sweden or South Korea too.

No room in a civil world for idiots growing up isolated in their
bedroom getting dangerous toys to beat up on folks who called them
names in school.

You would know about calling people names and probably about beating
people up in school too.

If that were how it is, Most of you all would be dead by now,
because I'd have culled over half the nation. None of you fuckers
are worthy... of much other than a bullet.

And to whom are you addressing this to? Confused again? But thanks for
demonstrating again exactly what I talked about above.

Naaah... I'm the sanest guy in the whole place.

I'd rather help colonize the Moon. Then I could simply leave you
all behind and watch from up there as you all kill each other,
because the timid fucks can't figure out that there is still a bit
of aggression to be directed here and there. So just blow it all
the hell up.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 24/06/2019 00:17, Mike Perkins wrote:

On 23/06/2019 23:01, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 23/06/2019 20:21, Rick C wrote:
I read an article today with some details about Trump's decision to
not attack Iran in retaliation for downing our drone.  It said he was
at the point of either saying attack or to stand down.  Thankfully he
stood down as many people felt a military response was not warranted
and not proportional possibly leading to further hostilities.

What worries me is, why did he let it go until the last minute before
deciding it was not proportional?  Was this part of his strategy to
draw his sword then in full view and then put it away without
striking?  Potentially this could have been an effective threat.

Or was this truly a matter of Trump not having been informed of the
number of potential deaths until he asked at the last minute?  Why
didn't he ask before ordering the preparations for the attack?  Was this

With what we see Trump do in his everyday behavior I really can't
tell which is the more accurate assessment of what really happened.


Maybe there's some embarrassment.  AIUI, the *very expensive* drone
was flying at a high altitude yet seemingly was unable to avoid a
SAM.  Not good.

And a 'cyber attack'?  I mean, we can all announce that, but who'd
ever know?

Cheers


It was said that after Stuxnet Iran had one of the world's greatest
hacking ability, probably nothing like the $50b dollars for the US
budget, but I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of an attack.

Also making a cyber attack, isn't this like poker, best keep your cards
close to ones chest until you really need to show them?

Worse than that. It is as dumb as f*ck to use any kind of cyber attack
against their air defences unless and until you intend to put real
hardware in harms way. No point in having them go through their systems
with a fine tooth comb looking for any remaining potential weaknesses.

Once you use cyber muntions in out the wild they are available for
anyone who wants to to examine them in great detail.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown