Driver to drive?

[Mel Wilson]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:15:27 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:38:41 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

The *limes*, OTOH, are overly abundant -- easily 400 "lemon sized" fruit
on a single tree -- and there's only so much you can use fresh lime,
lime juice, etc. *for*!

Key lime pie!

Avocado/Lime pie as well. Juice, avocado pulp, condensed milk, egg yolk,
crumb crust.

Mel.

 

On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 9:21:29 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:

meow2222@care2.com> wrote in message
news:14051b52-3d58-411c-876e-1a2988fa13bf@googlegroups.com...

Its definitely a piezo transducer, but what its diong in that cct I cant
imagine.

Bet its what turns the scales on when you step on it.

Someone please crosspost to sci.electronics.design

Why didn't you ?

gg refuses to

 

[Don Y]

On 1/10/2015 10:52 PM, John Larkin wrote:

I just finished installing my spiffy new waterproof 12-volt LED
RatLamp (tm).

The critter had been skinning our Meyer lemons

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Food/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG

and the light seems to keep them away.

Yikes! *Just* wants the skins/peels? I'd not have thought it possible to
"peel" a Meyers! Ours (Modified/Improved Meyers) have skins that are
so thin that it makes juicing them difficult (the skin provides very little
barrier between your fingers and the juicer!). By contrast, the Lisbon
had considerably thicker skins -- more like an orange (in thickness).

 

[Gordon Henderson]

In article <chg7qjFe0p0U1@mid.individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bet its what turns the scales on when you step on it.

Poor mans tap sensor. Done that before. The load cell on the main weighing
platform could be used, but that would mean keeping the amplifier and
ADCs going - which would quickly kill the batteries. A piezo disc thingy
can generate a good enough spike to generate a wake-up interrupt to the
microcontroller. I bet you have to 'tap' the scales, wait for them to
zero then stand on them...

Gordon

 

[Don Y]

Hi Dimiter,

On 1/10/2015 6:53 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

I use a lot of lemon juice in my tea. I think I've already consumed more
than a quart (~liter) -- a tablespoon (15ml) at a time -- of it in the few
weeks since I juiced them!

Oh you are lucky we live at the other side of the globe, I would have
insisted on a lemonade party were we somewhat closer .

I've never made lemonade. Besides its use in tea, I use the lemons
in some baked goods (juice and zest) and lemon sherbet. There are
never "enough" on the tree to satisfy our needs over the course of
a full year (we freeze the juice to preserve it beyond the immediate
time when the fruit are harvested). Poor tree is confused, this year.
I see a few score fruit have already started to develop (shouldn't
happen until Spring -- so, they'll be "lost")

Equally disproportionate need for the oranges. We've planted different
varieties (for different purposes) to ensure the crops come due at different
times (though all are "winter fruit").

The *limes*, OTOH, are overly abundant -- easily 400 "lemon sized" fruit
on a single tree -- and there's only so much you can use fresh lime, lime
juice, etc. *for*!

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:22:12 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

On 1/10/2015 10:52 PM, John Larkin wrote:

I just finished installing my spiffy new waterproof 12-volt LED
RatLamp (tm).

The critter had been skinning our Meyer lemons

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Food/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG

and the light seems to keep them away.

Yikes! *Just* wants the skins/peels?

Maybe they have a recipe that calls for lemon zest.

The location where some of those are hanging, the rat must have a
ladder or a tiny helicopter to skin them so perfectly.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:38:41 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

Hi Dimiter,

On 1/10/2015 6:53 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
I use a lot of lemon juice in my tea. I think I've already consumed more
than a quart (~liter) -- a tablespoon (15ml) at a time -- of it in the few
weeks since I juiced them!

Oh you are lucky we live at the other side of the globe, I would have
insisted on a lemonade party were we somewhat closer .

I've never made lemonade. Besides its use in tea, I use the lemons
in some baked goods (juice and zest) and lemon sherbet. There are
never "enough" on the tree to satisfy our needs over the course of
a full year (we freeze the juice to preserve it beyond the immediate
time when the fruit are harvested). Poor tree is confused, this year.
I see a few score fruit have already started to develop (shouldn't
happen until Spring -- so, they'll be "lost")

Equally disproportionate need for the oranges. We've planted different
varieties (for different purposes) to ensure the crops come due at different
times (though all are "winter fruit").

The *limes*, OTOH, are overly abundant -- easily 400 "lemon sized" fruit
on a single tree -- and there's only so much you can use fresh lime, lime
juice, etc. *for*!

Key lime pie!


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Don Y]

On 1/11/2015 11:15 AM, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:38:41 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

The *limes*, OTOH, are overly abundant -- easily 400 "lemon sized" fruit
on a single tree -- and there's only so much you can use fresh lime, lime
juice, etc. *for*!

Key lime pie!

Key limes are more tart/bitter. Ours are very sweet (for limes, that is).
And, considerably larger -- most key limes that I've seen are the size of
golf balls.

 

[Rod Speed]

<meow2222@care2.com> wrote in message
news:14051b52-3d58-411c-876e-1a2988fa13bf@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 1:42:44 PM UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:m8tts3$288$1
@news.albasani.net:

On 11/01/15 12:44, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/01/15 12:37, DerbyBorn wrote:

Piezo sounder is normally a brass disc but with a large, 50% of the
area at least, ceramic disc mounted coaxially on top to which the
second connection is made.


That is how it looked.

Could they have been using a piezo sensor as a strain gauge?

or to BALANCE a similar one so that you sensed differential
strain...that's not unusual where sensors are prone to reading e.g.
temperature as well. ;-)



https://www.dropbox.com/s/2yqe8wnldm4nedd/2015-01-11%2012.39.29.jpg?dl=0

Sorry if this appears twice but I can't see my earlier post. I have
noticed
it says "BUZ" on the circuit board. It has never made a sound and the
instructions make no reference to a sound.

Its definitely a piezo transducer, but what its diong in that cct I cant
imagine.

Bet its what turns the scales on when you step on it.

> Someone please crosspost to sci.electronics.design

Why didn't you ?

 

[Don Y]

On 1/11/2015 11:14 AM, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:22:12 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

On 1/10/2015 10:52 PM, John Larkin wrote:

I just finished installing my spiffy new waterproof 12-volt LED
RatLamp (tm).

The critter had been skinning our Meyer lemons

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Food/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG

and the light seems to keep them away.

Yikes! *Just* wants the skins/peels?

Maybe they have a recipe that calls for lemon zest.

The location where some of those are hanging, the rat must have a
ladder or a tiny helicopter to skin them so perfectly.

I suspect climb.

Neighbor had someone trimming palm trees last year. (Always nerve-wracking
to watch those guys "dangling" on such a flimsy "tree trunk".) After a few
minutes of work, guy screamed and pushed himself away from the tree (his
harness kept him from falling).

Turns out, he'd encountered a (live) *snake* some 40 feet up the tree...

 

[Don Y]

On 1/10/2015 6:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

E.g., our limes are bigger than store-bought *lemons*; lemons bigger
than oranges; oranges bigger than grapefruit; etc. Neighbors, OTOH,
have little *dinky* fruit... why bother growing it if you aren't
going to grow it *well*?

IOW: Go big, or go home!

It just seems silly to invest *any* effort (e.g., water!) in a fruit
bearing tree if your intention isn't to enjoy the fruit (or, let others
enjoy it if not you).

One neighbor routinely delivers a bag of lemons each year to each of his
neighbors. "Gee, how thoughtful!" But, he has no interest in the tree
so his fruit are really pretty *bad*. I.e., you're not doing anyone any
favors giving them crappy fruit! :-/

 

[Don Y]

On 1/11/2015 11:24 AM, Mel Wilson wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:15:27 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:38:41 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

The *limes*, OTOH, are overly abundant -- easily 400 "lemon sized" fruit
on a single tree -- and there's only so much you can use fresh lime,
lime juice, etc. *for*!

Key lime pie!

Avocado/Lime pie as well. Juice, avocado pulp, condensed milk, egg yolk,
crumb crust.

SWMBO might like that. She primarily uses the limes to make fresh guacamole.
Me? Not fond of avocado in any form! :-(

(lime sherbet is about the limit for my lime consumption -- and, a little
of that goes a LONG way!)

 

[John G]

meow2222@care2.com wrote on 12/01/2015 :

On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 9:21:29 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
meow2222@care2.com> wrote in message
news:14051b52-3d58-411c-876e-1a2988fa13bf@googlegroups.com...

Its definitely a piezo transducer, but what its diong in that cct I cant
imagine.

Bet its what turns the scales on when you step on it.

Someone please crosspost to sci.electronics.design

Why didn't you ?

gg refuses to

Don't use GG :-?

--
John G Sydney.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Gordon Henderson" <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote in message
news:m8utni$o65$1@dont-email.me...

In article <chg7qjFe0p0U1@mid.individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Bet its what turns the scales on when you step on it.

Poor mans tap sensor. Done that before. The load cell on the main weighing
platform could be used, but that would mean keeping the amplifier and
ADCs going - which would quickly kill the batteries. A piezo disc thingy
can generate a good enough spike to generate a wake-up interrupt to the
microcontroller. I bet you have to 'tap' the scales, wait for them to
zero then stand on them...

With mine you just step on it and it weighs fine.

Dunno if it has a piezo tho.

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 11.1.2015 Đł. 20:14, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:22:12 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

On 1/10/2015 10:52 PM, John Larkin wrote:

I just finished installing my spiffy new waterproof 12-volt LED
RatLamp (tm).

The critter had been skinning our Meyer lemons

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Food/Lemons_Post-Rat.JPG

and the light seems to keep them away.

Yikes! *Just* wants the skins/peels?

Maybe they have a recipe that calls for lemon zest.

The location where some of those are hanging, the rat must have a
ladder or a tiny helicopter to skin them so perfectly.

But are you sure it is a rat? My jaw was hanging while I looked at
your photo, I'd be pretty restless trying to take a shot of the
creature at work in your place I suppose... All the better if the
shot would then reveal Mousy on a quadcopter drone, preferably in
a space suit .

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

Hi Don,

On 11.1.2015 Đł. 19:38, Don Y wrote:

Hi Dimiter,

On 1/10/2015 6:53 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
I use a lot of lemon juice in my tea. I think I've already consumed
more
than a quart (~liter) -- a tablespoon (15ml) at a time -- of it in
the few
weeks since I juiced them!

Oh you are lucky we live at the other side of the globe, I would have
insisted on a lemonade party were we somewhat closer .

I've never made lemonade. Besides its use in tea, I use the lemons
in some baked goods (juice and zest) and lemon sherbet. There are
never "enough" on the tree to satisfy our needs over the course of
a full year (we freeze the juice to preserve it beyond the immediate
time when the fruit are harvested). Poor tree is confused, this year.
I see a few score fruit have already started to develop (shouldn't
happen until Spring -- so, they'll be "lost")

Equally disproportionate need for the oranges. We've planted different
varieties (for different purposes) to ensure the crops come due at
different
times (though all are "winter fruit").

The *limes*, OTOH, are overly abundant -- easily 400 "lemon sized" fruit
on a single tree -- and there's only so much you can use fresh lime, lime
juice, etc. *for*!

Oh come on we'd figure out how to make lemonade for the sake of a
good lemonade party, consider yourself lucky I am not close enough to
insist. We might come up with something innovative enough to put
coke under pressure on the market - or to put us in trouble for
causing food poisoning.... .

Limes or lemons would make no difference to me, I had to look the
difference up. I would have called a lime a "green lemon", I suspect
this is what they are called in Bulgarian (but I don't really know).

Dimiter

 

[Joerg]

On 1/9/2015 9:32 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 1/8/2015 5:37 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 1/8/2015 3:37 PM, Don Y wrote:

The "directed", one-to-one nature of email handles all of these cases
with a single interface.

The vendor can "broadcast" announcements to all "interested parties"
(i.e., those who have subscribed to the "product-announce" mailing
list).

I usually rather quickly unsubscribe from those. Too much noise and
fluff.

Participants can similarly "broadcast" questions (or replies) to those
"members" interested in questions of a particular type (based on the
mailing list chosen -- e.g., "product-new-users",
"product-advanced-users",
"product-suggestions", etc.).

Participants can reply "off list" *through* the list server to other
"members" -- so your email address never has to be disclosed, publicly
(e.g., this is also how "web portals" operate).

Participants can sanction "misbehavers" -- and, have their sanctions
visible so they can be sanctioned by other participants if they
get too aggressive (this is also available in web portals -- but not
in unmoderated USENET).

I thoroughly detest such censorship. Just like I despise the concept
of gated
communities. I would never live in one.
---------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ah, enforcing AUP's is "censorship".

If can lead to that rather quickly. Where some people are "more equal
than others".

... But, spam filtering *isn't*? I
guess the spammers don't have the same rights as folks who want to
post off-topic, distribute copyrighted materials, hijack threads, post
HTML, etc.

No, it isn't. _I_ can decide whether I want to read this NG
spam-filtered or unfiltered. Same for my email. But if there was some
sort of NG cop then he or she would decide.

Wikipedia claims:
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other
information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive,
politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments,
media
outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.
I.e., a vendor-supported forum in which the vendor effectively eliminates
criticism of itself or its products.

You'd also lump activities that chastise participants who use that forum
for activities other than those laid out in its AUP. E.g., posting
video clips of cats chasing their tails in a forum dedicated to a
particular
eCAD product. Or, posting original song lyrics in a forum devoted to
supporting bug reporting in <your_favorite_OS>.

So, is there even a *concept* of an AUP in your universe? Or, is
*everything*
legitimate? (if so, why discriminate against "spam"?)

It seems that CADsoft has a pretty blatant expression of how *they* handle
violations of their AUP (they call them "Guidelines"):
11. Messages found in violation of these guidelines are subject to
cancellation without notice
Censorship?? I guess you already live in that gated community -- *and*
PAID MONEY to gain entry!! (yet, if I opt to give the *participants*
that same sort control/influence, it's "censorship??)

Cf. <http://www.cadsoftusa.com/community/guidelines/

That's ok, it is their forum. With newsgroups on Usenet that is
different. There you have truly free speech. Unless they'd be moderated
which thankfully they are not.

Ah-ha! I've got it! I'll just call THOSE behaviors "spamming" and then
we'll
be in complete agreement! And, let the list provider do all this filtering
UNILATERALLY instead of leaving it to the discretion of the list
participants! I.e., just like *your* USENET provider!

I can select my Usenet provider. I _chose_ one that filters some stuff
but I have th freedom to switch to one that doesn't. Or to even run my
own nwes server that gets all the feeds I want.

"Resources" can be made available over the same medium by the vendor
(Subject: New FAQ available. Reply to this message to automatically
have a copy of the new FAQ emailed to you!)

Resources can be tailored to the individual querant because your email
address uniquely identifies *you*. So, folks who own a model 123
AND ONLY THOSE FOLKS can receive a directed broadcast pertinent to
that product (Subject: New Model 123 Firmware available. Reply to this
message to automatically have a copy of the new firmware emailed to you
along with instructions for its installation.)

That an ordinary mailing process and I sometimes use that. Very
sporadically
and only if it's very low traffic. Mailing lists are not low traffic.

That depends entirely on the list. As I said previously, mailing lists
are much finer-grained. Some with hundreds of messages per month, others
with a handful.

I've already indicated that an IMAP account can *appear* identical to a
user compared to a USENET account (in terms of the UX). So, you're willing
to ignore a similar amount of USENET traffic but *not* the same volume
of email traffic?

With Usenet I don't have a lot of traffic unless I would want to. Again,
the NNTP format works well. Why would I want IMAP instead?

And, all of this is "invisible" to search engines, etc. (unless someone
explicitly posts the content to a web site that *they* choose to
maintain!)

Best of all, you can administer and implement this through a tiny pipe.
No need to set up a web server that is online (and available for attack)
24/7/365. Just set up *an* email account and arrange to pull messages
off of it regularly, process them and push replies back!)

I first implemented this for a "beta" product. It was amazingly
successful.
The folks testing it (the product) were probably more highly
motivated than
"casual users" (selected expressly for that reason). And, really
enjoyed
being able to share their thoughts "in private" (i.e., amongst the group
and ONLY the group) as well as "one-on-one" (i.e., message each other
directly without the rest of the list seeing the conversation).

If it's a small circle of professionals I can see that work well. But
not with
hundreds. There I prefer properly threaded discussions.

Again, email allows threading. Just tell your client to do so. Or not.
Click on; click off.

And why not just stay with NNTP for groups? If it ain't broken, don't
fix it.

It is much superior to a simple "support" web site as you (the
vendor) can
hear what people are saying about your product -- instead of just
looking
at "hit counters" and "download counts". Allowing resources to be
delivered via that same channel (there is a "command" that facilitates
this)
gives the functionality of a browsable web site yet the directness of an
email link (also has the advantage of letting the vendor schedule
when the
"replies" are sent instead of having to deal with huge variations in
"web traffic")

As I said, earlier, I suspect the complaint from the client that sparked
this
thread is largely bogus (I don't watch his mailing list to know for
sure if
folks are *really* griping about the issue he mentioned).

I'm confident enough in the technology that I've started designing a
"How-to-manage-a-support-site-from-your-smartphone" document in much
the same way that the original Majordomo release was described. An
interesting twist on modern technology!

Everybody has their preference. The newsgruops format is my preference
so I
gravitate towards vendors that use it.

Well, it's unlikely you would have participated in the lists I've set up
thus
far. One was for a "niche" product; another for very high end kit (a few
year's net income). And, if I adopt this approach for my home automation
system, you've previously indicated your dislike for automation, so... :

I am only against automation if it isn't reliable. So far everything
I've seen was.

[and, I'm reasonably *sure* you aren't writing code for any of the FOSS
OS's
(all of which use mailing lists) or larger FOSS projects...]

I figure you probably want to go send a note to the CADsoft folks to
complain
about their censorship policies, now... And, maybe vote with your
wallet and
find another CAD vendor that *doesn't* engage in this!

They usually do not censor. We have discussed CAD software bugs on
there, and recipes, and beer, and ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Don Y]

Participants can sanction "misbehavers" -- and, have their sanctions
visible so they can be sanctioned by other participants if they
get too aggressive (this is also available in web portals -- but not
in unmoderated USENET).

I thoroughly detest such censorship. Just like I despise the concept
of gated
communities. I would never live in one.
---------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ah, enforcing AUP's is "censorship".

If can lead to that rather quickly. Where some people are "more equal than
others".

*IF* you have no *checks* on the "censors".

[Note that they technically aren't censoring anything. The "post" has
already been delivered to everyone on the list in order for ANYONE on
the list to be able to see it! This is not true of USENET where a
post can be *cancelled* thereby preventing anyone who hasn't YET
seen it from seeing it. Or, from *moderated* USENET where the post
is never seen by ANYONE if the moderator deems it unsuitable]

In my case, the "offending" post is distributed to all participants.
*ANY* can chose to flag it as "inappropriate". This "costs" the
originator of the message (think of it as taking a "hit" in a video
game).

But, in doing so, the individual complaining about the post makes
his complaint *public* -- to the same folks who have just seen
(and possibly NOT objected to!) the "offending post". I.e., you
can't "hide" while you are flagging others (i.e., like what is
possible with Craigslist) but, rather, have *your* actions seen
*and* associated with you, specifically.

So, best practices is to indicate *why* you flagged the post
lest others develop the opinion that you're being a little hitler.

[Remember, any of them can "flag" you -- now or in the future -- so
being overly aggressive in your policing can lead others to want to
be aggressive in policing *you*!]

To further discourage pedants who are intent on strict enforcement
of AUPs, your act of flagging a post also "costs" *you*! I.e., is
the post *that* offensive that YOU are willing to pay a price for
pointing this out??

I've tried several different algorithms to this "scoring". The
initial approach had one concept of "health"/karma that reflected
the amount of flagging you'd received *and* imposed on yourself
through the flagging of others. My current thinking is to split
this into two values: one governing your ability to *post* (i.e.,
when your "health" drops to zero, you can't post messages) while
the other pertains to your ability to *flag* (so, each time
you flag someone, *that* takes a hit but your ability to "post"
remains unaffected).

Contrast this with moderated newsgroups (USENET or otherwise) where
the participants have little (if any) ability to see the actions of
the moderator *or* influence them (replace the moderator??). Or,
forums "run" by an individual/organization where the same sort
of potential for abuse can occur.

It seems that CADsoft has a pretty blatant expression of how *they* handle
violations of their AUP (they call them "Guidelines"):
11. Messages found in violation of these guidelines are subject to
cancellation without notice
Censorship?? I guess you already live in that gated community -- *and*
PAID MONEY to gain entry!! (yet, if I opt to give the *participants*
that same sort control/influence, it's "censorship??)

Cf. <http://www.cadsoftusa.com/community/guidelines/

That's ok, it is their forum. With newsgroups on Usenet that is different.
There you have truly free speech. Unless they'd be moderated which thankfully
they are not.

If you scroll up and read my original post, the whole point was to figure
out the best way to deliver SUPPORT. And, the pitfalls of "corporate
sponsored" venues. Note, also, that "independent" venues can suffer
from the same pitfalls (BOfH syndrome).

Ah-ha! I've got it! I'll just call THOSE behaviors "spamming" and then
we'll
be in complete agreement! And, let the list provider do all this filtering
UNILATERALLY instead of leaving it to the discretion of the list
participants! I.e., just like *your* USENET provider!

I can select my Usenet provider. I _chose_ one that filters some stuff but I
have th freedom to switch to one that doesn't. Or to even run my own nwes
server that gets all the feeds I want.

And you can opt NOT to participate in the support venue that is provided
for the product in question! You can always go start your own web site,
mailing list, even a newsgroup!

You decide you don't like the "censorship" on a particular venue? Then
don't participate! Get your support from some other source. OTOH, if
you decide the question you want answered isn't getting addressed and
you *have* to resort to that venue, then don't complain about *their*
rules!

"I don't like fish!"
"Tough luck. That's what the Jones' are serving us for dinner tonight!"

You have the option of returning the product and living without ANY of the
"problems" that it is causing you! You can then turn to the next best product
found in your search and see how *they* address your needs (in the product
AND its support).

"Resources" can be made available over the same medium by the vendor
(Subject: New FAQ available. Reply to this message to automatically
have a copy of the new FAQ emailed to you!)

Resources can be tailored to the individual querant because your email
address uniquely identifies *you*. So, folks who own a model 123
AND ONLY THOSE FOLKS can receive a directed broadcast pertinent to
that product (Subject: New Model 123 Firmware available. Reply to this
message to automatically have a copy of the new firmware emailed to you
along with instructions for its installation.)

That an ordinary mailing process and I sometimes use that. Very
sporadically
and only if it's very low traffic. Mailing lists are not low traffic.

That depends entirely on the list. As I said previously, mailing lists
are much finer-grained. Some with hundreds of messages per month, others
with a handful.

I've already indicated that an IMAP account can *appear* identical to a
user compared to a USENET account (in terms of the UX). So, you're willing
to ignore a similar amount of USENET traffic but *not* the same volume
of email traffic?

With Usenet I don't have a lot of traffic unless I would want to. Again, the
NNTP format works well. Why would I want IMAP instead?

As discussed previously, IMAP and NNTP are effectively the same from the
UX point of view. In fact, IMAP can be used to deliver "news" -- if your
news server supports that protocol.

And, all of this is "invisible" to search engines, etc. (unless someone
explicitly posts the content to a web site that *they* choose to
maintain!)

Best of all, you can administer and implement this through a tiny pipe.
No need to set up a web server that is online (and available for attack)
24/7/365. Just set up *an* email account and arrange to pull messages
off of it regularly, process them and push replies back!)

I first implemented this for a "beta" product. It was amazingly
successful.
The folks testing it (the product) were probably more highly
motivated than
"casual users" (selected expressly for that reason). And, really
enjoyed
being able to share their thoughts "in private" (i.e., amongst the group
and ONLY the group) as well as "one-on-one" (i.e., message each other
directly without the rest of the list seeing the conversation).

If it's a small circle of professionals I can see that work well. But
not with
hundreds. There I prefer properly threaded discussions.

Again, email allows threading. Just tell your client to do so. Or not.
Click on; click off.

And why not just stay with NNTP for groups? If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

I've already addressed this. Again, do you see NO difference between
a telegram, a postcard and a certified letter? Each moves information
to a recipient...

[and, I'm reasonably *sure* you aren't writing code for any of the FOSS
OS's
(all of which use mailing lists) or larger FOSS projects...]

I figure you probably want to go send a note to the CADsoft folks to
complain
about their censorship policies, now... And, maybe vote with your
wallet and
find another CAD vendor that *doesn't* engage in this!

They usually do not censor. We have discussed CAD software bugs on there, and
recipes, and beer, and ...

Tell you what, start posting a message every day about "God is my Savior"
and see how long they put up with your comments. Or, start posting *ads*
for a competitor's product(s). If it's *NOT* a "gated community", then
the *worst* thing that will happen is no one will reply to you -- but
your posts will stand, unaltered!

In real terms, someone will eventually (soon) suggest you take your
Gospel "off list". If that doesn't cause *you* to change *your*
behavior (remember, no one HAS TO read any of your posts on that
newsgroup... isn't that the beauty of News?? :> ), you'll probably
see more hostile replies and eventual calls for "censorship" from
the newsgroup "owner".

For a couple of years (?) now, I've been running a news proxy that
effectively gives me the same sorts of controls as a spam filter -- but
on News posts. It watches what I read/respond to (as well as taking
explicit guidance from me) and learns what posts to "absorb" and not
bother me with.

But, it's best implemented as a server-side feature as it needs access
to message *bodies* to be most effective (the proxy currently has to
"slurp" the groups of interest in order to decide what it should pass
along and what should be elided.

[I had originally considered submitting it as a Tbird "extension/add-on"
but the "pull down ALL content" aspect discourages that. OTOH, many
people have fat pipes and think nothing of pulling down *lots* of
content -- videos, adverts, etc. -- so it may be premature to rule that
out, yet]

Given that News is NOT a "targeted" medium (i.e., unlike mail where
the sender has some reasonable expectation that I *will* read a message
ADDRESSED to me), it's been acceptable for it to be overzealous in
its "censorship". After all, there's only so many hours in a day and
"News" doesn't deserve more than a tiny portion of that.

Speaking of which, I'm done with this thread so don't think me rude if
I don't reply to any more posts, here...

 

[Joerg]

On 2015-01-13 11:08 AM, Don Y wrote:

Participants can sanction "misbehavers" -- and, have their sanctions
visible so they can be sanctioned by other participants if they
get too aggressive (this is also available in web portals -- but not
in unmoderated USENET).

I thoroughly detest such censorship. Just like I despise the concept
of gated
communities. I would never live in one.
---------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ah, enforcing AUP's is "censorship".

If can lead to that rather quickly. Where some people are "more equal
than
others".

*IF* you have no *checks* on the "censors".

[Note that they technically aren't censoring anything. The "post" has
already been delivered to everyone on the list in order for ANYONE on
the list to be able to see it! This is not true of USENET where a
post can be *cancelled* thereby preventing anyone who hasn't YET
seen it from seeing it. Or, from *moderated* USENET where the post
is never seen by ANYONE if the moderator deems it unsuitable]

In my case, the "offending" post is distributed to all participants.
*ANY* can chose to flag it as "inappropriate". This "costs" the
originator of the message (think of it as taking a "hit" in a video
game).

But, in doing so, the individual complaining about the post makes
his complaint *public* -- to the same folks who have just seen
(and possibly NOT objected to!) the "offending post". I.e., you
can't "hide" while you are flagging others (i.e., like what is
possible with Craigslist) but, rather, have *your* actions seen
*and* associated with you, specifically.

So, best practices is to indicate *why* you flagged the post
lest others develop the opinion that you're being a little hitler.

[Remember, any of them can "flag" you -- now or in the future -- so
being overly aggressive in your policing can lead others to want to
be aggressive in policing *you*!]

To further discourage pedants who are intent on strict enforcement
of AUPs, your act of flagging a post also "costs" *you*! I.e., is
the post *that* offensive that YOU are willing to pay a price for
pointing this out??

I've tried several different algorithms to this "scoring". The
initial approach had one concept of "health"/karma that reflected
the amount of flagging you'd received *and* imposed on yourself
through the flagging of others. My current thinking is to split
this into two values: one governing your ability to *post* (i.e.,
when your "health" drops to zero, you can't post messages) while
the other pertains to your ability to *flag* (so, each time
you flag someone, *that* takes a hit but your ability to "post"
remains unaffected).

Ok, some of this makes sense. But why make life so complicated? I prefer
a forum where everything goes. Keep it simple. If someone wants to let
off a political rant, ok, let him do that. I can easily click "ignore
thread" of I really can't stand it.

Contrast this with moderated newsgroups (USENET or otherwise) where
the participants have little (if any) ability to see the actions of
the moderator *or* influence them (replace the moderator??). Or,
forums "run" by an individual/organization where the same sort
of potential for abuse can occur.

There is no moderator on Usenet.

It seems that CADsoft has a pretty blatant expression of how *they*
handle
violations of their AUP (they call them "Guidelines"):
11. Messages found in violation of these guidelines are
subject to
cancellation without notice
Censorship?? I guess you already live in that gated community -- *and*
PAID MONEY to gain entry!! (yet, if I opt to give the *participants*
that same sort control/influence, it's "censorship??)

Cf. <http://www.cadsoftusa.com/community/guidelines/

That's ok, it is their forum. With newsgroups on Usenet that is
different.
There you have truly free speech. Unless they'd be moderated which
thankfully
they are not.

If you scroll up and read my original post, the whole point was to figure
out the best way to deliver SUPPORT. And, the pitfalls of "corporate
sponsored" venues. Note, also, that "independent" venues can suffer
from the same pitfalls (BOfH syndrome).

It is your opinion of what is the best way. Mine is very different from
that. I prefer support like it is done by Cadsoft, via several corporate
newsgroups. It is IMHO the most efficient because it is properly threaded.

Ah-ha! I've got it! I'll just call THOSE behaviors "spamming" and then
we'll
be in complete agreement! And, let the list provider do all this
filtering
UNILATERALLY instead of leaving it to the discretion of the list
participants! I.e., just like *your* USENET provider!

I can select my Usenet provider. I _chose_ one that filters some stuff
but I
have th freedom to switch to one that doesn't. Or to even run my own nwes
server that gets all the feeds I want.

And you can opt NOT to participate in the support venue that is provided
for the product in question! You can always go start your own web site,
mailing list, even a newsgroup!

You decide you don't like the "censorship" on a particular venue? Then
don't participate! Get your support from some other source. OTOH, if
you decide the question you want answered isn't getting addressed and
you *have* to resort to that venue, then don't complain about *their*
rules!

That is why I prefer products that have a support structure I like. One
reason why my use of TI chips in designs has gone down.

"I don't like fish!"
"Tough luck. That's what the Jones' are serving us for dinner
tonight!"

You have the option of returning the product and living without ANY of the
"problems" that it is causing you! You can then turn to the next best
product
found in your search and see how *they* address your needs (in the product
AND its support).

I seldom have to return anything becaus I make the decision based on
what I see before. Like with my CAD where I bought one that has
newsgroup-style support.

[...]

[and, I'm reasonably *sure* you aren't writing code for any of the FOSS
OS's
(all of which use mailing lists) or larger FOSS projects...]

I figure you probably want to go send a note to the CADsoft folks to
complain
about their censorship policies, now... And, maybe vote with your
wallet and
find another CAD vendor that *doesn't* engage in this!

They usually do not censor. We have discussed CAD software bugs on
there, and
recipes, and beer, and ...

Tell you what, start posting a message every day about "God is my Savior"
and see how long they put up with your comments. ...

He is my savior. But why would I want to be intrusive?

... Or, start posting *ads*
for a competitor's product(s). If it's *NOT* a "gated community", then
the *worst* thing that will happen is no one will reply to you -- but
your posts will stand, unaltered!

So what? I can chose not to look or even click it off by filtering. The
fact that I have zero filtering right now is testament to the quality of
newsgroups.

In real terms, someone will eventually (soon) suggest you take your
Gospel "off list". If that doesn't cause *you* to change *your*
behavior (remember, no one HAS TO read any of your posts on that
newsgroup... isn't that the beauty of News?? :> ), you'll probably
see more hostile replies and eventual calls for "censorship" from
the newsgroup "owner".

No, I sure won't.

For a couple of years (?) now, I've been running a news proxy that
effectively gives me the same sorts of controls as a spam filter -- but
on News posts. It watches what I read/respond to (as well as taking
explicit guidance from me) and learns what posts to "absorb" and not
bother me with.

But, it's best implemented as a server-side feature as it needs access
to message *bodies* to be most effective (the proxy currently has to
"slurp" the groups of interest in order to decide what it should pass
along and what should be elided.

[I had originally considered submitting it as a Tbird "extension/add-on"
but the "pull down ALL content" aspect discourages that. OTOH, many
people have fat pipes and think nothing of pulling down *lots* of
content -- videos, adverts, etc. -- so it may be premature to rule that
out, yet]

Ok, seems you are talking binaries now. I have no access to those since
about a decade now.

Given that News is NOT a "targeted" medium (i.e., unlike mail where
the sender has some reasonable expectation that I *will* read a message
ADDRESSED to me), it's been acceptable for it to be overzealous in
its "censorship". After all, there's only so many hours in a day and
"News" doesn't deserve more than a tiny portion of that.

What censorship? These groups are uncensored in terms of what people write.

Speaking of which, I'm done with this thread so don't think me rude if
I don't reply to any more posts, here...

That's ok. But now that I wrote my replies I'll let them post

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 02:20:40 +0000, Ralph Barone wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 17:38:30 -0800, Joe <none@given.now> wrote:

In article <7u5bca16og769msv1btfls07g2955gst0b@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 17:18:26 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 11:36:47 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/24/basic-physics-may-
defeat-de
flategate.html


...Jim Thompson

By my math, the pressure drop (for 30F delta) should be about 0.72
PSI, actually less since the ball isn't rigid. Less than half of
what the Prominent Boston Physicist got. Somebody could check this.

I get an 11.4 PSI drop. Go thee unto:
http://www.1728.org/gaspres.htm
Click on Solve for P2 T1 = 273 + 70C = 343K T2 = 273 + 40C = 313K
Click on Calculate and it produces an 11.4 PSI drop in pressure.

I'm not gonna mess with PVT calcs, but just thought I would let you
know that no pro football game has ever been played at 70C, and no pro
football game has ever been at 40C, at least during the winter.

--- Joe

Oops 2.0.
This is what happens when I rush and don't check my work.

70F = 21C 40F = 4.4C

P1 = 12.5 PSI T1 = 273 + 21C = 294K T2 = 273 + 4.4C = 277K

Calculated P2 = 11.8 PSI Pressure drop = 12.5 - 11.8 = 0.70 PSI

Looks like the other JL is correct.

Thanks.


Should the pressures be gauge or absolute?

The calculation should be from absolutes.

This should be able to be extrapolated upon real world gauged readings.