Driver to drive?

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:49:57 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 14:25:27 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:20:14 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 12:25:28 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:30:05 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:14:39 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:34:16 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:05:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 06:59:03 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 08:13:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:30:07 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:49:05 -0600, "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net
wrote:

Is J2 the socket for the PIC, or is it going through cables to the PIC
somewhere else?

What are the trace lengths on the loop from Q1 source (ground), to the
nearest bypass capacitor on +12VR, through D5, back to Q1? (Hint: D5 must
be placed at Q1, not at the coil.)

Why? It will clamp a flyback overshoot wherever it is in the circuit.

If the wiring from FET to coil is significantly inductive, then what?

...Jim Thompson


Since you can't think this through, you'll have to Spice it.

No. It's _you_ who'll have to LTspice it... and you'll get it wrong
:-}

...Jim Thompson


Whenever "Thompson" and "inductance" show up in the same post, amusement is sure
to follow.

Wiring inductance _between_device_and_catch_diode_ can cause voltage
spikes, depending on device turn-off speed... irrespective of what
smug-ass comments Larkin may churn up.

...Jim Thompson

Show us.

See attachment. Sorry that Larkin is incapable of understanding the
basic behavior of _any_ inductance.

...Jim Thompson

Moron. A PCB trace, or a wire, isn't an inductor, it's a transmission
line. And a mosfet isn't an ideal switch.

According to your model, every mosfet always blows up from its own
wirebond inductance! Or from any drain trace, even if the load is
resistive!

(Thompson + inductors) dependably = (stupidity)

No amount of bloviation will cover your ignorance... wiring out to a
solenoid or relay before the catch diode will give you grief.

No matter how many times you bloviate.

...Jim Thompson

Using your idiotic simulation, I suppose so. Good thing I don't use
your idiotic simulations.

25 kilovolts! Hilarious! I wish I could make a 25 kilovolt boost
conveter from a 2N7000!

It was to make my point... after all I did say, "Wiring inductance
_between_device_and_catch_diode_ can cause voltage spikes, depending
on device TURN-OFF SPEED... "

Slower times and less inductance will, of course, produce a smaller
spike... but there WILL STILL BE A SPIKE. And CDG of a power FET will
help slow things down... perhaps enough that the dwell time in the
gate charge plateau region will slowly kill you instead.

Sometimes I feel sorry for you, being manic-depressive has got to be a
burden on an otherwise (allegedly) productive person.

But then that other part of your personality springs forth, you know
the part I mean, the PLUPERFECT ASSHOLE SIDE. Then I lose my
sympathy, and rank you right up there in that class of pompous
ignorance alongside Phil Allison and Bill Slowman.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[amdx]

...Jim Thompson

Moron. A PCB trace, or a wire, isn't an inductor, it's a transmission
line. And a mosfet isn't an ideal switch.

According to your model, every mosfet always blows up from its own
wirebond inductance! Or from any drain trace, even if the load is
resistive!

(Thompson + inductors) dependably = (stupidity)

No amount of bloviation will cover your ignorance... wiring out to a
solenoid or relay before the catch diode will give you grief.

No matter how many times you bloviate.

...Jim Thompson

Using your idiotic simulation, I suppose so. Good thing I don't use
your idiotic simulations.

25 kilovolts! Hilarious! I wish I could make a 25 kilovolt boost
conveter from a 2N7000!

It was to make my point... after all I did say, "Wiring inductance
_between_device_and_catch_diode_ can cause voltage spikes, depending
on device TURN-OFF SPEED... "

Slower times and less inductance will, of course, produce a smaller
spike... but there WILL STILL BE A SPIKE. And CDG of a power FET will
help slow things down... perhaps enough that the dwell time in the
gate charge plateau region will slowly kill you instead.

Sometimes I feel sorry for you, being manic-depressive has got to be a
burden on an otherwise (allegedly) productive person.

But then that other part of your personality springs forth, you know
the part I mean, the PLUPERFECT ASSHOLE SIDE. Then I lose my
sympathy, and rank you right up there in that class of pompous
ignorance alongside Phil Allison and Bill Slowman.

...Jim Thompson

Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.
Mikek

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:47:13 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

...Jim Thompson

Moron. A PCB trace, or a wire, isn't an inductor, it's a transmission
line. And a mosfet isn't an ideal switch.

According to your model, every mosfet always blows up from its own
wirebond inductance! Or from any drain trace, even if the load is
resistive!

(Thompson + inductors) dependably = (stupidity)

No amount of bloviation will cover your ignorance... wiring out to a
solenoid or relay before the catch diode will give you grief.

No matter how many times you bloviate.

...Jim Thompson

Using your idiotic simulation, I suppose so. Good thing I don't use
your idiotic simulations.

25 kilovolts! Hilarious! I wish I could make a 25 kilovolt boost
conveter from a 2N7000!

It was to make my point... after all I did say, "Wiring inductance
_between_device_and_catch_diode_ can cause voltage spikes, depending
on device TURN-OFF SPEED... "

Slower times and less inductance will, of course, produce a smaller
spike... but there WILL STILL BE A SPIKE. And CDG of a power FET will
help slow things down... perhaps enough that the dwell time in the
gate charge plateau region will slowly kill you instead.

Sometimes I feel sorry for you, being manic-depressive has got to be a
burden on an otherwise (allegedly) productive person.

But then that other part of your personality springs forth, you know
the part I mean, the PLUPERFECT ASSHOLE SIDE. Then I lose my
sympathy, and rank you right up there in that class of pompous
ignorance alongside Phil Allison and Bill Slowman.

...Jim Thompson

Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.
Mikek

I'm sorry! I besmirched Allison and Slowman >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Anthony Stewart]

In my thinking, putting the diode across the coil, does the job of free-wheeling the coil current in a small loop to reduce EMI and suppress the voltage transient being created at the end of a transmission line. There will be reflections and ringing on the transmission line but no comparison to a large L small C spike left unclamped.

If there is substantial ringing at high current, a clamp diode at both ends is my suggestion.

Concerning trace inductance when driving high current IGBT's with hundreds of amps, both ESL and ESR of interconnects are critical and 5~10 Ohm series non-inductive resistors are important to dampen ringing and Litz wire is preferred for interconnections.

 

[Anthony Stewart]

the resister in mind was for the IGBT gate and Litz wire for the load. Often I find cascaded IGBT's with Gate impedance current limiting about 10% of the load impedance to dampen the ESL of the driver.

 

[Anthony Stewart]

I agree with JL that in the original case of a 30mA coil as the resistance would be very high, it would not matter which end the diode was placed.

 

[amdx]

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson

You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Just responding in kind to Larkin's scurrilous remarks.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:03:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Just responding in kind to Larkin's scurrilous remarks.

...Jim Thompson

The problem isn't that I'm scurrilous. The problem is that you're
wrong. 25 kilovolts of wrong.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:10:08 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:03:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Just responding in kind to Larkin's scurrilous remarks.

...Jim Thompson

The problem isn't that I'm scurrilous. The problem is that you're
wrong. 25 kilovolts of wrong.

Nope. If anyone blows their FET, don't blame me, blame Larkin.

Only a few hundred nH can give you a kV... enjoy!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:43:21 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:07:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:10:08 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:03:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Just responding in kind to Larkin's scurrilous remarks.

...Jim Thompson

The problem isn't that I'm scurrilous. The problem is that you're
wrong. 25 kilovolts of wrong.

Nope. If anyone blows their FET, don't blame me, blame Larkin.

Only a few hundred nH can give you a kV... enjoy!

...Jim Thompson

It's hard to build a real-world mosfet boost converter with a 10:1 step-up
ratio. You have to really work at it. With a reasonable inductor and mosfet, the
energy stored in the inductor gets transfered to the mosfet capacitance and
winding capacitance before you get 10x boost. That's why people build flyback
converters.

Do the math: say, 100 mA (the original case was 30 mA, as I recall) and 500 nH.
Dump all that energy into the drain capacitance of a 2N7000. Does that make
kilovolts? If not, you are a moron.

With a finite gate drive impedance, the peak drain voltage goes down
considerably from the simple calculated peak above, but I don't want to confuse
you with advanced semiconductor stuff.

Weasel on!

My stuff never fails. Yours?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

There's a website for back issues of wireless world...! wirelessworldbackissues.co.uk


On Monday, 26 May 2008 19:27:22 UTC+8, d296...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Hi to everyone on the list,

I wonder if anyone on this list has any back issues of the UK magazine
"Wireless World"?

I am trying to get hold of a complete copy of an article (photocopy or
e-copy) which
appeared in the February 1965 edition. I will be more than happy to
cover all expenses of copying etc.

The item of interest is an article about a wobbulator designed by Ken
Johnson which uses "Turns Cancellation" in order to tune the inductor
within the oscillator.

After reading an incomplete description of the design in "Amateur
radio techniques" I have been successful in getting the design to work
but I understand the WW article had much more detail and background
information which I should like to see.

Many thanks,

Des.

 

On Monday, 26 May 2008 19:27:22 UTC+8, d296...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Hi to everyone on the list,

I wonder if anyone on this list has any back issues of the UK magazine
"Wireless World"?

I am trying to get hold of a complete copy of an article (photocopy or
e-copy) which
appeared in the February 1965 edition. I will be more than happy to
cover all expenses of copying etc.

The item of interest is an article about a wobbulator designed by Ken
Johnson which uses "Turns Cancellation" in order to tune the inductor
within the oscillator.

After reading an incomplete description of the design in "Amateur
radio techniques" I have been successful in getting the design to work
but I understand the WW article had much more detail and background
information which I should like to see.

Many thanks,

Des.

There's a website for back issues of wireless world...! wirelessworldbackissues

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:07:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:10:08 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:03:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Just responding in kind to Larkin's scurrilous remarks.

...Jim Thompson

The problem isn't that I'm scurrilous. The problem is that you're
wrong. 25 kilovolts of wrong.

Nope. If anyone blows their FET, don't blame me, blame Larkin.

Only a few hundred nH can give you a kV... enjoy!

...Jim Thompson

It's hard to build a real-world mosfet boost converter with a 10:1 step-up
ratio. You have to really work at it. With a reasonable inductor and mosfet, the
energy stored in the inductor gets transfered to the mosfet capacitance and
winding capacitance before you get 10x boost. That's why people build flyback
converters.

Do the math: say, 100 mA (the original case was 30 mA, as I recall) and 500 nH.
Dump all that energy into the drain capacitance of a 2N7000. Does that make
kilovolts? If not, you are a moron.

With a finite gate drive impedance, the peak drain voltage goes down
considerably from the simple calculated peak above, but I don't want to confuse
you with advanced semiconductor stuff.

Weasel on!


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

 

[Adrian Tuddenham]

<matt.shorter@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, 26 May 2008 19:27:22 UTC+8, d296...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hi to everyone on the list,

I wonder if anyone on this list has any back issues of the UK magazine
"Wireless World"?

I am trying to get hold of a complete copy of an article (photocopy or
e-copy) which
appeared in the February 1965 edition. I will be more than happy to
cover all expenses of copying etc.

The item of interest is an article about a wobbulator designed by Ken
Johnson which uses "Turns Cancellation" in order to tune the inductor
within the oscillator.

After reading an incomplete description of the design in "Amateur
radio techniques" I have been successful in getting the design to work
but I understand the WW article had much more detail and background
information which I should like to see.

Many thanks,

Des.

There's a website for back issues of wireless world...!
wirelessworldbackissues

If you get completely stuck, I should have that issue (but it may take
some time to find it).

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:46:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:43:21 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:07:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:10:08 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:03:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Just responding in kind to Larkin's scurrilous remarks.

...Jim Thompson

The problem isn't that I'm scurrilous. The problem is that you're
wrong. 25 kilovolts of wrong.

Nope. If anyone blows their FET, don't blame me, blame Larkin.

Only a few hundred nH can give you a kV... enjoy!

...Jim Thompson

It's hard to build a real-world mosfet boost converter with a 10:1 step-up
ratio. You have to really work at it. With a reasonable inductor and mosfet, the
energy stored in the inductor gets transfered to the mosfet capacitance and
winding capacitance before you get 10x boost. That's why people build flyback
converters.

Do the math: say, 100 mA (the original case was 30 mA, as I recall) and 500 nH.
Dump all that energy into the drain capacitance of a 2N7000. Does that make
kilovolts? If not, you are a moron.

With a finite gate drive impedance, the peak drain voltage goes down
considerably from the simple calculated peak above, but I don't want to confuse
you with advanced semiconductor stuff.

Weasel on!

My stuff never fails. Yours?

...Jim Thompson

You have a dilemma: if you can't do the math, we conclude that you are a moron.
If you do the math, you prove that you are a moron.

It would require Olympic-class weaseling to get out of this one. You're not good
enough at that, either.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 07:05:21 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:46:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:43:21 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:07:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:10:08 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:03:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Just responding in kind to Larkin's scurrilous remarks.

...Jim Thompson

The problem isn't that I'm scurrilous. The problem is that you're
wrong. 25 kilovolts of wrong.

Nope. If anyone blows their FET, don't blame me, blame Larkin.

Only a few hundred nH can give you a kV... enjoy!

...Jim Thompson

It's hard to build a real-world mosfet boost converter with a 10:1 step-up
ratio. You have to really work at it. With a reasonable inductor and mosfet, the
energy stored in the inductor gets transfered to the mosfet capacitance and
winding capacitance before you get 10x boost. That's why people build flyback
converters.

Do the math: say, 100 mA (the original case was 30 mA, as I recall) and 500 nH.
Dump all that energy into the drain capacitance of a 2N7000. Does that make
kilovolts? If not, you are a moron.

With a finite gate drive impedance, the peak drain voltage goes down
considerably from the simple calculated peak above, but I don't want to confuse
you with advanced semiconductor stuff.

Weasel on!

My stuff never fails. Yours?

...Jim Thompson

You have a dilemma: if you can't do the math, we conclude that you are a moron.
If you do the math, you prove that you are a moron.

It would require Olympic-class weaseling to get out of this one. You're not good
enough at that, either.

More bloviation from Larkin >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 08:59:02 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 07:05:21 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:46:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:43:21 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:07:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:10:08 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:03:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Just responding in kind to Larkin's scurrilous remarks.

...Jim Thompson

The problem isn't that I'm scurrilous. The problem is that you're
wrong. 25 kilovolts of wrong.

Nope. If anyone blows their FET, don't blame me, blame Larkin.

Only a few hundred nH can give you a kV... enjoy!

...Jim Thompson

It's hard to build a real-world mosfet boost converter with a 10:1 step-up
ratio. You have to really work at it. With a reasonable inductor and mosfet, the
energy stored in the inductor gets transfered to the mosfet capacitance and
winding capacitance before you get 10x boost. That's why people build flyback
converters.

Do the math: say, 100 mA (the original case was 30 mA, as I recall) and 500 nH.
Dump all that energy into the drain capacitance of a 2N7000. Does that make
kilovolts? If not, you are a moron.

With a finite gate drive impedance, the peak drain voltage goes down
considerably from the simple calculated peak above, but I don't want to confuse
you with advanced semiconductor stuff.

Weasel on!

My stuff never fails. Yours?

...Jim Thompson

You have a dilemma: if you can't do the math, we conclude that you are a moron.
If you do the math, you prove that you are a moron.

It would require Olympic-class weaseling to get out of this one. You're not good
enough at that, either.

More bloviation from Larkin >:-}

...Jim Thompson

Do the math, you sad old fool. Or Spice it if you've forgotten algebra.

Show us that kilovolt.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Do the math yourself, you sad excuse for an engineer...

e = L*di/dt

I'm guessing the next invective out of Larkin's asshole will be
"senile"... and it will be a perfect description of Larkin himself...
after all, senility is a CONDITION, not an age.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 09:40:54 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:53:36 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 11/18/2013 9:03 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:38:45 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:51:04 -0800 (PST), dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:57 AM UTC+2, Tim Williams wrote:
"amdx" <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in message
news:l6e8u7$6g2$1@dont-email.me...
Boys, I don't mind a little disagreement, but Jim!
Putting anyone in the same category as Phil Allison,
shame, shame on you, that's a low blow.

Actually, when I read the first post of this latest series, I could've
sworn I was reading one of them. That distinct combination of arrogance
and ignorance.

Both John and Jim are equally childish as Phil.

Tim

ROFL, had not been here for a while, nice to see some things
do not change/get exhausted .

I think technically Jim has a point, a trace does have an inductance
whether you choose to view it as a transmission line (e.g. referenced
to a plane) or not.

An inductor and a transmission line will behave differently here. The
inductor can, at least in a goofy simulation, make an unlimited
flyback spike; the transmission line flyback voltage is limited to
Zo*Id and usually a lot lower.

Any PCB trace or wire is a transmission line, because it has
inductance and capacitance.

You're incompetent. Everyone seems to know it but you.

...Jim Thompson


You lose your credibility when you make such a statement,
no one here believes your statement.
Now go sit down and have a glass of wine.
Mikek

Do the math yourself, you sad excuse for an engineer...

e = L*di/dt

I'm guessing the next invective out of Larkin's asshole will be
"senile"... and it will be a perfect description of Larkin himself...
after all, senility is a CONDITION, not an age.

...Jim Thompson

You can't do it!

Show us that kilovolt!




--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators