Driver to drive?

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:27:07 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com>
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:31:19 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:38:33 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/06/white-house-to-dems-on-town-halls-if-you-get-hit-we-will-punch-back-twice-as-hard/

Sorry, lying right wing editorial. The fact is that the AFL-CIO
took it's own initiative.

My hope is that the lying astroturfers carrying around signs with
swastikas and gravestones andhanging congressmen in effigy get
exactly what they deserve.

They're just recycled swastikas and effigies from the 'Bush is a
NAZI' campaign. Gee, I thought recycling was supposed to be a good
thing and plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery.

Aren't you proud?

They started it

The left did and it's rank hypocrisy on the left's part to complain
about others using their exact same tactics.

What you mean is, you can't find any examples of the left using the
exact same tacits in a town hall meeting.


ROTFLOL

No, I mean the left uses those tactics any time there are more than
two people in any one place.

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo
I know you are.


Aren't you proud?

Sounds like your conversation isn't suited to off-topic use of a worldwide
forum, privacy-wise - maybe you should start a yahoogroup. =)
You're still unable to comprehend a simple three word question, I see.
 
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:35:40 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com>
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:33:25 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:59:19 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:31:56 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
its@casual.com> wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:43:27 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
its@casual.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
This will send a chill down your spine...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

Big brother is watching... big time :-(

Bullshit.

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform
out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of
life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface
via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we
can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're
asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on
the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send
it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

You are such a good little mind numbed robot.

When, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, the Bush
Administration asked the public to keep an eye out for
potentially life threatening, illegal, terrorist activity and
report same to the appropriate authorities the left went into
an apoplectic fit screaming fascist, fascist, but you think
it's perfectly fine for people to collect and send private
communications to the White House for nothing more threatening
than expressing a political opinion Obama doesn't like.

Let's see, the left says reporting life threatening illegal
activities bad.

Bullshit.

and the left is full of it.


Hate to burst your fascist bubble but the First Amendment
doesn't say only speech Obama likes, or only speech you like,
or only speech Obama deems politically appropriate or only
speech Obama, in his great wisdom. deems the one and only
'truth'. It protects SPEECH.

Only a complete idiot would think this is for anything but
rebuttal. lol

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a flying fig *what* your twisted
little swastika imagines the 'purpose' to be. It's a violation of
both free speech and privacy rights,

Pathetic lie.

Spoken like a good loyal fascist.

What you mean is, you can't find proof one for your lie above. lol


regardless, and the Constitution makes no
exceptions for "unless the Obama administration finds infringing
on these rights convenient for stomping on it's political
opposition" nor is there one for 'convenient rebuttal'.

But, since liberals don't give a dam what the Constitution says, I
feel compelled to point out it's also illegal by statute passed
by a Democrat Congress.

Pathetic lie.

ditto

What you mean is, you can't find proof one for your lie above. lol


And, as I already mentioned in the parts you dishonestly snipped,
all of it is readily available on the Internet ranging from
'mainstream' new sources, to editorials, to blogs, to youtube and
the only schmucks apparently not only deaf dumb and blind to the
deluge of concern but unable to google and click on a link to
inform themselves are Mr. Teachable Moment and his 'communications
director'.

Pathetic lie.

ditto

What you mean is, you can't find proof one for your lie above. lol



What I mean is exactly what I said. You speak like a good loyal
fascist.

More nothing from the nothng.
So you being a fascist is "nothing."

You speak like a good loyal fascist.
 
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:37:22 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com>
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:41:48 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 01:40:18 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:55:05 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

This will send a chill down your spine...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

Big brother is watching... big time :-(

Might I suggest an E-mail flood ?:)

...Jim Thompson

Even scarier is the Administration apparently thinks that hurling
accusations and simply repeating the same thing over and over,
while ignoring the arguments presented, is a 'rebuttal'.

Isn't Hitler who said that if a lie is told often enough that it
becomes believed / the truth?

That's commonly thought but Hitler's oft quoted commentary on the
subject, expressed in Mein Kampf, was the "Big Lie" theory.

"All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true in
itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of
credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more
easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than
consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of
their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the
small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little
matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It
would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths,
and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to
distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove
this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will
still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be
some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves
traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which
is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire
together in the art of lying."

-Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

Interestingly enough, that quote is often taken out of context
because, it one looks at the preceding paragraph, he is actually
accusing 'the Jews and Marxists' of doing that.

"But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for
falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute
responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had
shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the
catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that
hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for
the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took
away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous
enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the
Fatherland to Justice."

That doesn't mean Hitler wasn't a liar, only that you can't 'prove'
it by using a quote where he's accusing the Jews and Marxists of
being liars.

Goebbels included both 'repetition' and 'big lie' in his theory but
there's no doubt of his intent.

""If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for
such time as the State can shield the people from the political,
economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes
vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress
dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by
extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."

In this day where there is much discussion about 'the role of
government' it is interesting to note that Goebbles theory prizes
vitality of the State and he apparently concludes the State must, of
necessity, lie and, so, it is (or else it would not be) "vitally
important' for the State to repress truth and dissent.

A Constitutional democracy is diametrically opposite. It prizes the
vitality of the people and the 'State' comes and goes at their will.

Goebbels, again, on repetition

""The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success
unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it
must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over"

The modern left adds their own twist to the technique: regardless of
what they say accuse all dissenters of lying and, as Sen Hillary
Clinton demonstrated with Gen Petreus, do so before they even speak.

I often wax long and hard about logic and fallacies

Not as long as you do when using them. =)

You just demonstrated two of your, and the left's, favorites: hurling
an accusation with no evidence whatsoever

Made-up crazyassed crap.
That's a cruder way of describing what you do.


flipper wrote:

Obama's oft repeated claim is you will be able to keep your current
plan, if you like, or chose the government plan.

Now, as I said from the get go, his words are 'technically correct'
but what he intentionally leads one to believe is you will have the
choice of any plan you 'like'



and the dishonest tactic of
partial quote.

Sorry, straw man arguments have beginnings and ends. lol
When do yours end?

Continue squealing.
 
On Aug 11, 9:01 am, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
<freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:57:04 -0400, Jamie wrote:
John Fields wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 06:38:33 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman
On Aug 8, 3:23 am, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:47:22 -0400,  wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:46:28 -0700, Jim Thompson

Written by a doctor (orthopedic surgeon) acquaintance of ours...

Is Canada's health care system perfect? No. That being said, compared
to the US the data indicate that Canada gets slightly better results..

A couple of indicators:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder...
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder...

And just how long is the waiting list for, say, and MRI or CAT scan?
How long is the waiting list for a transplant? How long is the waiting
list for a coronary bypass?

Oh, that's right - they get around the rationing by coming to the US to
get treatment.

Well, you can kiss that safety valve goodbye if Obama's socialized
medicine gets passed.

Right. They'd have to go to England and "go private" there. The U.K.
National Health system provides perfectly adequate health care for
everybody, but there's enough spare capacity to service people who
want to buy faster service - when my ruptured intervertebral had taken
a long time to recover I spent a couple of hundred pouds on a private
magnetic resonance scan; and X-ray scan would have been half the
price, but I didn't fancy absorbing 4% of the lethal radiation dose.
Pity... ;)

Be nice :)

And still no answer to my "how long is the watiting list" question.

Wonder why that could be?
/sarcasm
The answer is that you are too dim to google it for yourself

http://www.library.nhs.uk/healthmanagement/ViewResource.aspx?resID=118674

says that current policy in the UK is that if you won't get a scan
from your local hospital within 13 weeks, you can be put on a general
list which is expected to find you a scan within another 13 week.

Typical waiting times for non-urgent scans have been claimed to be in
the range two to eight weeks; urgent cases do get seen a lot more
quickly.

The less cheapskate systems in France, Germany and the Netherlands
seem to hold the waiting time for non-urgent scans down to a couple of
weeks or less.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
Bobby Joe wrote:
Whats the E-Test for? They test the board for proper electrical
connections? If so what do they do when there is a bad board? Do they
replace the board? I'm curious because the cost is 200$ for an E-test
on a relatively simple board run and I don't think it is needed.
Well, if you do not think it is needed, go without and save the nickels.
Any PCB fab house that has been business a number of years has good
quality; if they start to slip, customers will go elsewhere and they
would go bankrupt very fast.
Looking for PCB house info from an independent party? try
www.fabfileonline.com/
 
Skybuck Flying wrote:
Hello,

For as far as I understand there was once a world where artist and so would
live in the gutter because they couldn't earn money with their
work/hobby/passion.

That world is long gone thanks to social wellfair.

Being an artist is about createn art and that sort of works because you do
it with love, with passion, because you enjoy it, or find it interesting...
and not because to get filthy rich from it.

I say: Scrap the copyrightlaw it's not needed anymore and it will only
create many problems now and in the future !

Scrapping it is necessary to create a pleasent and free information
world/society.

I fear that if this copyrightlaw is not scrapped we will start to slide
further towards a very nasty world !

Also don't work to hard good people, many artist don't as well nowadays...

Only the red copy button is pressed and the rest goes fully automatic ! =D

Be carefull/sparefull with your hard earned cash ! ;) :)

Bye,
Skybuck.


Well, you are consistently nuts; put another mark on that chalkboard..
 
On Aug 11, 3:40 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:58:10 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman
bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 10, 5:01 am, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com
wrote:
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
messagenews:2spt759j5psi87vp80e68irgfb5nq3397o@4ax.com...
<snip>

In the UK elementary education is funded by the central government,
and teacher salaries are essentially uniform across the country, but
the schools are administered by local authorities.

Schools in rich areas do better for their students than schools in
poorer areas - the interest and motivation (or lack of it) of the
other students in a class affects the quality of the education
availalbe to all the students in a specific class-room.

Crap.  Slowman couldn't get a job from Obama, even if he showed up in
black-face.
I wonder why Jim thinks that this comment has any logical relationship
to the text that precedes it?

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com|    1962     |

       How severe can senility be?  Just check out Slowman.
Jim does seem to be projecting here . If he was a little less over the
hill, he might have the wits left to notice it.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:05:42 -0400, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:45:42 -0600, "Don T" <-painter-@louvre.org
wrote:

"daestrom" <daestrom@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:h5q7en12lar@news2.newsguy.com...
Don T wrote:
"Richardson" <member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:JYWdncZmtr_K2uPXnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@posted.toastnet...

Again power is not measured in AMP, but in WATT you stupid jerks, Give it
up now suckers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If you know it all answer me this. Why are tools like electric drills and
even shop vacuums listed as having 6.0 AMP etc. motors?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/CategoryOverview.aspx?cPath=1496.2050


Because it makes better advertising copy than 0.48 horsepower?? :)

daestrom

=> snicker <=

Probable, but it makes the statement that "power is never measured in
ampere units" quite wrong.


The 6 amp motor means it draws 6 amps from the mains. It does not mean
ANYTHING as far as how much power it produces, other than that it
cannot produce more than 690 watts at 115 volts

You're an idiot. First off, there are ZERO 115 volt circuits here.

Secondly, everything that runs on standard AC that relates to raw power
is declared in Amps.

Look at vacuum cleaners, and the hand drill.

Anything that competes with other makers that runs on a motor, competes
with each other over how fast or how strong or how well it can do the
job.

A dremel tool talks about top rotational speed as that is more important
than shaft torque.

Drills and vacuum cleaners refer to the amperage of the motor.

So, YES it DOES mean EVERYTHING about how much power it has in a world
where the source voltage is known.
 
In article <b5f8de25-553a-4406-8e66-eb1e76f749a9
@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, bobbyjoe23928@gmail.com says...
On Aug 10, 6:27 am, Terry Casey <k.t...@example.invalid> wrote:
In article <5cbdcee2-34a0-4bd0-8324-ecf42767d672
@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>, bob.jones5...@gmail.com says...





On Aug 6, 8:22 am, Terry Casey <k.t...@example.invalid> wrote:
In article <ac79b83c-a9d1-4346-be96-f03abb4ebb52
@k1g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, bob.jones5...@gmail.com says...

http://www.schematicheaven.com/mesaboogie.htm

Pick an amplifier.

I've picked three at random and the valve/tube references in all of them
differ, which makes nonsense of the rest of your description ...

I'm trying to figure out what the circuit that
"surrounds" the reverb circuit is doing. This is usually the tube
section V2 with the reverb tubes being V4 and phase V5. The input and
drive are V1 with the FX loop V23.

Actually I have a mesa amplifier and I am wanting to have a hard
bypass for the reverb and fx loop. There reason is because they are
not needed and I want to compare the tube sound without these
sections. The fx loop does have a hard bypass but the reverb does not.

V1->V2->V4(reverb)->V3->V5.

V1 and V5 are absolutely necessary. V3 and V4 are not. I do not know
if V2 is some type of extra drive/buffer for the reverb or if it is
the final preamp stage.

If V2 is necessary then I should easily be able to take out V3 similar
to how the fx loop is hard bypassed(DPDT switch) else I can include V2
in the hard bypass and remove it too.

'Bypassing' the reverb, as you put it, is not an option - all you need
to do is turn it off! In all 3 circuits I've looked at, the 'Reverb'
control at the output of the reverb section disconnects it entirely when
set to minimum, so even noise generated in the reverb section is turned
off too.

If you want the facility to switch reverb on and off, put a SPST switch
in series with the line marked 'reverb out'

I am also curious if it would be possible to replace the tube sections
in the reverb and FX bus with transistors? This would save tubes and
increase the fidelity. That is, instead of bypassing the tubes I would
just exchange them with a transistor based circuit.

I was also thinking about adding a jfet input stage. Would this be a
good idea? Also instead of bypassing the  channel 1 tone when moving
from the clean to the distortion channel why couldn't I mix them?
This would simply require adding a pot instead of the switches and
would offer more potential. Although here relays are used for the
switching so it would be more of a chore.

I would respectfully suggest that your difficuly understanding the
simplicity involved in achieving your original objective suggests that
anything further would be well beyond you capabilities ...

--

Terry

Disconnects it entirely? You arrogance and ignorance is ungodly. Maybe
you do not realize that the tubes are still in the circuit and still
"hot"? Sure turning the reverb "down" would work but there is
something called "true-bypass" and there is the other questions I have
asked along with what V2 is doing. Since you do not understand this at
least you could mention it instead of personal attacks to defend your
ignorance of the subject.

Turning the Reverb control to zero DOES disconnect the reverb circuit
FROM A SIGNAL POINT OF VIEW, which is what I understood you to require.


You assume that the reverb pot is always off and that there is no
other circuitry involved. You assume a lot. Sure the singnal is
grounded but what if there is a short before the pot and after? What
if the pot is not completely off but 99%? Then what? What if there is
feedback and oscillation? Then what? You assume so freaken much but
treat the Bob like a moron with your condescending attitude. Adding a
simple true bypass eliminates any problems and is common in the audio
industry. When troubleshooting a circuit it is best to be able to
eliminate stages completely. Even if Bob did not understand that the
reverb pot would ground the signal it does not solve the problem.
I did say 'If you want the facility to switch reverb on and off, put a
SPST switch in series with the line marked 'reverb out'. This would
completely disconnect the reverb pot.

The OP said: 'There reason is because they are not needed and I want to
compare the tube sound without these sections. The fx loop does have a
hard bypass but the reverb does not.' No mention of 'feedback and
oscillation'. In fact there is no suggestionof any malfunction at all -
he simply wants to 'compare the tube sound without these sections'.


The reverb input has no effect on the signal whatsoever (although you
could physically disconnect it if you don't believe me) and the output
control completely isolates the rest of the circuitry from any noise,
etc., coming from the reverb amp.


I assume you mean if the reverb volume is completely turned off?
See above ...

Of course I 'realize that the tubes are still in the circuit and still
"hot"' but that makes no difference to the performance of the amplifier!


This is not true. You are assuming a perfectly working amplifier. A
short between some stage and the reverb circuit can easily effect the
entire circuit even with the reverb volume control turned completely
off. Again, you are making a lot of assumptions that any real engineer
would not make.
My apologies. I've never encountered any of this particular
manufacturer's products. You are obviously an expert and know that the
standard of construction is so poor that it is possible to have 'a short
between some stage and the reverb circuit can easily effect the entire
circuit ...'.

As I said before, 'I've picked three (schematics)at random and the
valve/tube references in all of them differ, which makes nonsense of the
rest of your description ...' and you still can't be bothered to clarify
the situation.


From what I read Bob did not give his specific amplifier so here,
again, you are making assumptions. This would be fine if you weren't
just a jackass about it.
Bob said: 'Pick an amplifier.'

I did exactly that - and it didn't correspond to his description. He
implied that there is a generic design which is used in all the
amplifiers. This is obviously not so, as I proved by 'picking' more
'amplifiers'.

When I pointed this out to Bob, he was still too lazy to clarify which
one is his.

In the Mesa Boogie MkI Reissue, V4 = Reverb Driver; V3b = Reverb Output.
In the Lonestar, V4b = Reverb Driver; V4a = Reverb Output.
In the Mesa Boogie DC-5, V5a = Reverb Driver; V5b = Reverb Output.

For good measure, I took yet another random sample ...

In the Mesa Boogie Blue Angel, v3 = Reverb Driver; V4a = Reverb Output.

So, four samples and no two alike!

So, as you seem determined to 'completely disconnect' the reverb
circuit, proceed as follows:

Lonestar: remove V4
DC-5: remove V5
Boogie MkI: remove V4, physically remove all components connected to V3b
Blue Angel: remove V3, physically remove all components connected to V4a


Even disconnecting the tubes does not completely remove it. The only
way is a hard-bypass. Unfortunately this is practically impossible and
the best way is to simply hard-bypass the signal chain rather than
completely removing the stage from the main circuit which involves
cutting out the power supplies also.
'Unfortunately this is practically impossible' - true and, as I pointed
out, a useless exercise.

'The best way is to simply hard-bypass the signal chain'. NO! That is
impossible! Look at the circuit - any circuit. The reverb in is taken
from one end of a resistor in series with the signal path and reverb out
is connected to the other end of the same resistor (there are some
variations but the basic result is the same.) This effectively passes an
attenuated version of the reverb out signal back to the input to give a
fixed amount of reverb sustain. A bypass would connect output direct to
input. Anyone who has used any form of reverb with a sustain control,
which these units notably lack, will know what happens if the sustain is
advanced too far - a continuous, uncontrollable howl - NOT what Bob
wants!

(Modify above as necessary to suit you particular model.)

You will now have successfully completely disconnected the reverb
circuit AND IT STILL WON'T MAKE THE SLIGHTEST DIFFERENCE!
--

Terry
 
MooseFET wrote:
On Aug 10, 2:21 pm, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de
wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:41:02 -0700 (PDT), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
Notice that I am now suggesting a battery. Unfortunately, batteries
have a bad tempco too. They are very low noise however so it may be
worth the trouble they cause.
This could be interesting:

http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1133.pdf

Yes, very worth reading. It is likely that the low frequency rise in
the noise is the effect of things like temperature.

I don't see any reason that a battery that will hold a charge for 6
months wouldn't have a noise level well below:

6*30*24*60*60= 16 x 10^6 : 1 = 144dB

because the fall off is very slow at the fully charged end of the
charge vs voltage curve.

regards, Gerhard
That's an interesting paper as far as voltage noise is concerned, but
it's completely cracked when it comes to current noise. You can't
measure the current noise of a low impedance source by putting an 825
ohm resistor in series with it, because the resistor itself will
suppress the current noise enormously.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
On Aug 11, 6:52 am, Terry Casey <k.t...@example.invalid> wrote:
In article <b5f8de25-553a-4406-8e66-eb1e76f749a9
@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, bobbyjoe23...@gmail.com says...





On Aug 10, 6:27 am, Terry Casey <k.t...@example.invalid> wrote:
In article <5cbdcee2-34a0-4bd0-8324-ecf42767d672
@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>, bob.jones5...@gmail.com says...

On Aug 6, 8:22 am, Terry Casey <k.t...@example.invalid> wrote:
In article <ac79b83c-a9d1-4346-be96-f03abb4ebb52
@k1g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, bob.jones5...@gmail.com says...

http://www.schematicheaven.com/mesaboogie.htm

Pick an amplifier.

I've picked three at random and the valve/tube references in all of them
differ, which makes nonsense of the rest of your description ...

I'm trying to figure out what the circuit that
"surrounds" the reverb circuit is doing. This is usually the tube
section V2 with the reverb tubes being V4 and phase V5. The input and
drive are V1 with the FX loop V23.

Actually I have a mesa amplifier and I am wanting to have a hard
bypass for the reverb and fx loop. There reason is because they are
not needed and I want to compare the tube sound without these
sections. The fx loop does have a hard bypass but the reverb does not.

V1->V2->V4(reverb)->V3->V5.

V1 and V5 are absolutely necessary. V3 and V4 are not. I do not know
if V2 is some type of extra drive/buffer for the reverb or if it is
the final preamp stage.

If V2 is necessary then I should easily be able to take out V3 similar
to how the fx loop is hard bypassed(DPDT switch) else I can include V2
in the hard bypass and remove it too.

'Bypassing' the reverb, as you put it, is not an option - all you need
to do is turn it off! In all 3 circuits I've looked at, the 'Reverb'
control at the output of the reverb section disconnects it entirely when
set to minimum, so even noise generated in the reverb section is turned
off too.

If you want the facility to switch reverb on and off, put a SPST switch
in series with the line marked 'reverb out'

I am also curious if it would be possible to replace the tube sections
in the reverb and FX bus with transistors? This would save tubes and
increase the fidelity. That is, instead of bypassing the tubes I would
just exchange them with a transistor based circuit.

I was also thinking about adding a jfet input stage. Would this be a
good idea? Also instead of bypassing the  channel 1 tone when moving
from the clean to the distortion channel why couldn't I mix them?
This would simply require adding a pot instead of the switches and
would offer more potential. Although here relays are used for the
switching so it would be more of a chore.

I would respectfully suggest that your difficuly understanding the
simplicity involved in achieving your original objective suggests that
anything further would be well beyond you capabilities ...

--

Terry

Disconnects it entirely? You arrogance and ignorance is ungodly. Maybe
you do not realize that the tubes are still in the circuit and still
"hot"? Sure turning the reverb "down" would work but there is
something called "true-bypass" and there is the other questions I have
asked along with what V2 is doing. Since you do not understand this at
least you could mention it instead of personal attacks to defend your
ignorance of the subject.

Turning the Reverb control to zero DOES disconnect the reverb circuit
FROM A SIGNAL POINT OF VIEW, which is what I understood you to require.

You assume that the reverb pot is always off and that there is no
other circuitry involved. You assume a lot. Sure the singnal is
grounded but what if there is a short before the pot and after? What
if the pot is not completely off but 99%? Then what? What if there is
feedback and oscillation? Then what? You assume so freaken much but
treat the Bob like a moron with your condescending attitude. Adding a
simple true bypass eliminates any problems and is common in the audio
industry. When troubleshooting a circuit it is best to be able to
eliminate stages completely. Even if Bob did not understand that the
reverb pot would ground the signal it does not solve the problem.

I did say 'If you want the facility to switch reverb on and off, put a
SPST switch in series with the line marked 'reverb out'. This would
completely disconnect the reverb pot.

The OP said: 'There reason is because they are not needed and I want to
compare the tube sound without these sections. The fx loop does have a
hard bypass but the reverb does not.' No mention of 'feedback and
oscillation'. In fact there is no suggestionof any malfunction at all -
he simply wants to 'compare the tube sound without these sections'.
Technically he says "...because they are not needed AND I want to
compare the sounds". Not "...beause they are not needed to compare the
sounds". There is a subtle but logical distinction. He might want to
completely remove the reverb section and wants to compare tubes. What
it sounds like to me is that he wants to remove the whole section
because he probably won't use it and for whatever reason just does not
want it there. Is it our job to question his motivations and call him
a moron because we see things differently?

My gripe with you isn't your analysis of the problem but your
attitude. You don't help someone by giving them answers and also
demeaning them, do you? Maybe that is your kinda help but I'm sure you
don't like it when people help you that way, do you?


The reverb input has no effect on the signal whatsoever (although you
could physically disconnect it if you don't believe me) and the output
control completely isolates the rest of the circuitry from any noise,
etc., coming from the reverb amp.

I assume you mean if the reverb volume is completely turned off?

See above ...

Of course I 'realize that the tubes are still in the circuit and still
"hot"' but that makes no difference to the performance of the amplifier!

This is not true. You are assuming a perfectly working amplifier. A
short between some stage and the reverb circuit can easily effect the
entire circuit even with the reverb volume control turned completely
off. Again, you are making a lot of assumptions that any real engineer
would not make.

My apologies. I've never encountered any of this particular
manufacturer's products. You are obviously an expert and know that the
standard of construction is so poor that it is possible to have 'a short
between some stage and the reverb circuit can easily effect the entire
circuit ...'.
I've worked with enough electronics to expect the unexpected. I would
assume you would be familiar with such principles given the impression
you are trying to give off. Again, I agree with most of your analysis
except I'm not helping the guy just to go on an ego trip. Maybe he
overlooked that part, maybe he does not know enough about electronics,
or maybe he has some more information that you don't have. Hence to
demean him only makes you look arrogant and ignorant simply because
you know much less about the situation he is dealing with than you
think. Of course you could be right but it would only be by luck since
he did not give enough information to support your claims about his
intelligence nor about the specific electronics situation.



As I said before, 'I've picked three (schematics)at random and the
valve/tube references in all of them differ, which makes nonsense of the
rest of your description ...' and you still can't be bothered to clarify
the situation.

From what I read Bob did not give his specific amplifier so here,
again, you are making assumptions. This would be fine if you weren't
just a jackass about it.

Bob said: 'Pick an amplifier.'

I did exactly that - and it didn't correspond to his description. He
implied that there is a generic design which is used in all the
amplifiers. This is obviously not so, as I proved by 'picking' more
'amplifiers'.

When I pointed this out to Bob, he was still too lazy to clarify which
one is his.
Is it possible not everyone is as intelligent or motivated as you to
detail the situation properly? That or maybe he though it was enough
information. Unlike you I am not a mind reader and if I am choosing to
help some one, as he did not force you, at least I could do is have
the moral integrity not to play ego games. I see it all too often with
engineers who use this to build up their inadequacies rather than help
the other person. For them, tearing another down is the same as
building yourself up. While in some sense this is actually true it is
not necessarily the best way.

In the Mesa Boogie MkI Reissue, V4 = Reverb Driver; V3b = Reverb Output.
In the Lonestar, V4b = Reverb Driver; V4a = Reverb Output.
In the Mesa Boogie DC-5, V5a = Reverb Driver; V5b = Reverb Output..

For good measure, I took yet another random sample ...

In the Mesa Boogie Blue Angel, v3 = Reverb Driver; V4a = Reverb Output.

So, four samples and no two alike!

So, as you seem determined to 'completely disconnect' the reverb
circuit, proceed as follows:

Lonestar: remove V4
DC-5: remove V5
Boogie MkI: remove V4, physically remove all components connected to V3b
Blue Angel: remove V3, physically remove all components connected to V4a

Even disconnecting the tubes does not completely remove it. The only
way is a hard-bypass. Unfortunately this is practically impossible and
the best way is to simply hard-bypass the signal chain rather than
completely removing the stage from the main circuit which involves
cutting out the power supplies also.

'Unfortunately this is practically impossible' - true and, as I pointed
out, a useless exercise.

'The best way is to simply hard-bypass the signal chain'. NO! That is
impossible! Look at the circuit - any circuit. The reverb in is taken
from one end of a resistor in series with the signal path and reverb out
is connected to the other end of the same resistor (there are some
variations but the basic result is the same.) This effectively passes an
attenuated version of the reverb out signal back to the input to give a
fixed amount of reverb sustain. A bypass would connect output direct to
input. Anyone who has used any form of reverb with a sustain control,
which these units notably lack, will know what happens if the sustain is
advanced too far - a continuous, uncontrollable howl - NOT what Bob
wants!
A Hard bypass does not necessarily mean a short. Although I see your
point. Again, we are not debating about electronics here for the most
part. I'm sure you will agree that ultimately the best way is a bypass
of that circuit stage. Sure it is in parallel and hence a bypass would
require an open circuit. One could simply add a SPST on one of the
sides to accomplish this adequately. Or one could add one on both
sides to be virtually 100% confident it is removed.

If it were me and I wanted some type of true bypass I would use a DPTT
switch that would allow removal of the element by disconnecting and
for the other two, the warm and bright mods. I'd probably actually add
a pot for the bright instead. Hell, if I was going to go through the
trouble of opening up the amp I would probably do a lot more. The main
reason I see for a bypass of the reverb is for troubleshooting. If
not, and if that is not Bob's ultimate goal or something near that,
then I personally can't see why it would be needed. But again, I'm not
a mind reader and don't pretend to be.

Again, the issue is not about electronics but about your attitude.
That's all I was pointing out. You don't want to become that phil guy
do you? He seems smart but he has the worst attitude I've ever seen.
I'm not sure if he was molested as a child by a catholic priest or
what but the guy has some serious issues. Theres no reason you need to
listen to me but I think if you did and were a bit nicer then it might
be more enjoyable discussing electronics. Bob might even have
responded to you with more details or whatever and clarified what he
was doing. We all then might have learned something. Maybe he has a
damn good reason for it and just didn't communicate it well. Maybe he
was drunk when he wrote the post? Who knows and who cares.
 
flipper wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:27:07 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:31:19 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:38:33 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
its@casual.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/06/white-house-to-dems-on-town-halls-if-you-get-hit-we-will-punch-back-twice-as-hard/

Sorry, lying right wing editorial. The fact is that the AFL-CIO
took it's own initiative.

My hope is that the lying astroturfers carrying around signs
with swastikas and gravestones andhanging congressmen in effigy
get exactly what they deserve.

They're just recycled swastikas and effigies from the 'Bush is a
NAZI' campaign. Gee, I thought recycling was supposed to be a good
thing and plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery.

Aren't you proud?

They started it

The left did and it's rank hypocrisy on the left's part to
complain about others using their exact same tactics.

What you mean is, you can't find any examples of the left using
the exact same tacits in a town hall meeting.


ROTFLOL

No, I mean the left uses those tactics any time there are more than
two people in any one place.

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

I know you are.


Aren't you proud?

Sounds like your conversation isn't suited to off-topic use of a
worldwide forum, privacy-wise - maybe you should start a yahoogroup.
=)

You're still unable to comprehend a simple three word question, I see.

Poor Floppy just can't stop trying to change the subject. lol

The left did and it's rank hypocrisy on the left's part to
complain about others using their exact same tactics.

What you mean is, you can't find any examples of the left using
the exact same [tactics] in a town hall meeting.
Keep running.
 
UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:34:33 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:31:19 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

What you mean is, you can't find any examples of the left using
the exact same tacits in a town hall meeting.

Your tacits are utter drool.

Yep.

You should drown in your tacits.

Tommyboy posted a ridiculous right wing heath care bill hoax. I
killed it with facts.

What you posted were not facts, nor did they refute what he posted.

A pathetic, delusional lie, as is obviously your habit.


On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:25:59 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:27:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Fact, in Obama's "Universal" Health Plan:

Switch to the government plan... you can NEVER go back to private
insurance.

Neatly hidden in the bill verbiage :-(

...Jim Thompson

The House server is flaky. I finally got a full copy and posted it to
my own website to make it easier for you all to see what shit can come
forth from Democrats...

www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HR3200_Health.pdf

AND: Any sane observer can also see that middle class taxes are
required to pay for this. Congress doesn't understand that doubling a
tax rate DOES NOT DOUBLE revenue. When they see that, guess what?
Enjoy!

Ah, thanks, this one is copyable.

(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV4
ERAGE DEFINED.-Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov6
erage under this division, the term ''grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage'' means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.-
11 (A) IN GENERAL.-Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef15
fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.

In other words, all the part IBD quoted means is that to be considered
grandfathered coverage, it has to begin before the date specified.

You guys will fall for anything. lol
(Other pathetic, delusional lies snipped)
 
In message <2spt759j5psi87vp80e68irgfb5nq3397o@4ax.com>, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> writes
God help us, this will be Obama's next stunt...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/8192234.stm

...Jim Thompson
I hate the way the idiots think everyone has the right to be mediocre
and degrade every one else's achievements in the process by lowering the
signal to noise ratio.

All idiocy like this does is raise the bar further because everyone who
gets a university qualification now has to go and do a post grad
doctorate to get to the same level as before.

There's a reason that entrance exams are set and not everyone can be a
rocket scientist or chip designer!
--
Clint Sharp
 
castvee8 wrote:
On Aug 9, 6:29�pm, du...@bunghole.com (Richard Cranium) wrote:
I just wanted to let you know I received my stimulus package
yesterday... ďż˝

It contained watermelon seeds, cornbread mix, and ten coupons for KFC.

The directions were in Spanish.

Damn! You got coupons for KFC? Wow......Wish I could get some........

Go to the KFC website and sign uo for them. Just don't blame me when
the required coupon printing software fills your computer with spyware.

http://www.kfc.com/coupons/ageverification.asp


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
 
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:16:24 -0500, AZ Nomad
aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:50:32 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
"When implemented, the Complete Lives system produces a priority curve
on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most
substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances
that are attenuated... The Complete Lives system justifies preference
to younger people because of priority to the worst-off rather than
instrumental value."

http://www.sodahead.com/question/532683/rahms-brother-dr-ezekiel-emanuel-the-death-czar-obama-health-policy-advisor-announced-a-new-stystem-for-selecting-who-in-the-population-should-be-killeda-federal-system-for-withdrawing-care-from-those-chosen-for-death---do-you-care/

Obama's health program... Hitler Care

You're a loon.

Be nice. Otherwise, when you get ill, you'll be declared "surplus"

Why wait?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
 
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:50:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

"When implemented, the Complete Lives system produces a priority curve
on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most
substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances
that are attenuated... The Complete Lives system justifies preference
to younger people because of priority to the worst-off rather than
instrumental value."

http://www.sodahead.com/question/532683/rahms-brother-dr-ezekiel-emanuel-the-death-czar-obama-health-policy-advisor-announced-a-new-stystem-for-selecting-who-in-the-population-should-be-killeda-federal-system-for-withdrawing-care-from-those-chosen-for-death---do-you-care/

Obama's health program... Hitler Care

...Jim Thompson
Jim, this is the system implemented in Denmark at present. If you're
over a certain age, they will delay treatment until you become an
emergency case, or better yet, die. If you die, then the health care
system isn't burdened. I have seen this since I have been around Danes
and Denmark for the past 20 years.

After all, Jim, you older guys just sit around doing nothing for the
economy! :()

What I find funny, is all this health care stuff doesn't address some
of the fundamental issues of cost. I doubt that Obama, and other
lawyer-educated politicians (Rebubbalicans included), will do
something about reigning in the litigation burden of medicine since
that would put a cap on making tons of money. Drug companies are
another issue that stokes cash in to the freezers of politician's.

Fortunately, India is a viable alternative for American health care or
we would really be in deep fecal matter.

--
Mark
 
UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:38:37 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:32:31 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

You mean trespassing.

How does showing up at a public forum equate to trespassing, you
retarded little unamerican piece of shit?

They just showed up and waited to get in, did they? Cite please.

Where did you see it written that that was the procedure?

You really are one retarded motherfucker, pussy boy.


Public lot. Public building. Public forum. Public meeting.

Where is the trespassing at you retarded, pussified lying piece of
shit?
In other words, no cite, just more nothing from the nothing.
 
UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:39:01 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:32:21 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:17:24 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
its@casual.com> wrote:

There were at least two scuffles between protesters trying to
enter and organizers manning the doors.


"organizers" of the scuffle.

translation: droool

Nice sig. Fits you to a T.

More nothing from the nothing.

Is this what you call "fixing with facts"?

Got any more nothing for us, nothing boy?
More nothing from the nothing.
 
flipper wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:35:40 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:33:25 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex" <its@casual.com
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:59:19 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
its@casual.com> wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:31:56 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
its@casual.com> wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:43:27 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
its@casual.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
This will send a chill down your spine...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

Big brother is watching... big time :-(

Bullshit.

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance
reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances
to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below
the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation.
Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White
House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or
see something on the web about health insurance reform that
seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

You are such a good little mind numbed robot.

When, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, the Bush
Administration asked the public to keep an eye out for
potentially life threatening, illegal, terrorist activity and
report same to the appropriate authorities the left went into
an apoplectic fit screaming fascist, fascist, but you think
it's perfectly fine for people to collect and send private
communications to the White House for nothing more threatening
than expressing a political opinion Obama doesn't like.

Let's see, the left says reporting life threatening illegal
activities bad.

Bullshit.

and the left is full of it.


Hate to burst your fascist bubble but the First Amendment
doesn't say only speech Obama likes, or only speech you like,
or only speech Obama deems politically appropriate or only
speech Obama, in his great wisdom. deems the one and only
'truth'. It protects SPEECH.

Only a complete idiot would think this is for anything but
rebuttal. lol

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a flying fig *what* your twisted
little swastika imagines the 'purpose' to be. It's a violation
of both free speech and privacy rights,

Pathetic lie.

Spoken like a good loyal fascist.

What you mean is, you can't find proof one for your lie above. lol


regardless, and the Constitution makes no
exceptions for "unless the Obama administration finds infringing
on these rights convenient for stomping on it's political
opposition" nor is there one for 'convenient rebuttal'.

But, since liberals don't give a dam what the Constitution
says, I feel compelled to point out it's also illegal by
statute passed by a Democrat Congress.

Pathetic lie.

ditto

What you mean is, you can't find proof one for your lie above. lol


And, as I already mentioned in the parts you dishonestly
snipped, all of it is readily available on the Internet ranging
from 'mainstream' new sources, to editorials, to blogs, to
youtube and the only schmucks apparently not only deaf dumb and
blind to the deluge of concern but unable to google and click
on a link to inform themselves are Mr. Teachable Moment and his
'communications director'.

Pathetic lie.

ditto

What you mean is, you can't find proof one for your lie above. lol



What I mean is exactly what I said. You speak like a good loyal
fascist.

More nothing from the nothng.


So you being a fascist is "nothing."

You speak like a good loyal fascist.
More nothing from the nothing.
 

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