Driver to drive?

[krw]

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:43:08 GMT, dufus@bunghole.com (Richard Cranium)
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:01:35 -0700, Bart!
B@rt_The_Sheriff_Is_A_Nig**!.org> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:35:45 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

No, what's obvious is that you're a liar too. You *are* hiding your real name,

Usenet is an anonymous forum, dumbshit. Do you actually think I would
want you and ANY of the other dipshits in here knowing my real name?
You're an idiot. IF I were to ever commit a crime, my post headers are
all a retarded fuck like you would need to get action taken for it. UNTIL
that time you can go fuck yourself.

and you *are* hiding your real email address,

Usenet is NOT email, you retarded twit, and NOBODY here has ANY
obligation to include ANY email, much less a valid one. So fuck off and
die with that dumb shit too.

and you *are* lying about it.

No, I am posting a name which includes an impossible email that to
anyone with half a brain knows is not a real email, and they go on
knowing that it is an anonymous nym.

It requires an net IQ a bit higher than your IQ, however.


Your very being alive ius a crime asswipe. Tell us about your
celibacy. Does it include your right arm?

Nah, DimBulb goes both ways, usually after raiding mommy's hamper.

 

[krw]

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:45:54 GMT, dufus@bunghole.com (Richard Cranium)
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:05:41 -0700, Bart! <Bart the fart> wrote:

Snip


Yawn! Same old, same old. Looks like Archie has run out of drivel.
Well, he still can explain his claim of celibacy. Tell us all about
how you made that choice Archie.

*He* didn't. Isn't that pretty obvious?

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <p4g46598lgjk1itu10t9bsgvab64k07s3n@4ax.com>, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:23:48 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <glc4659370feaq2blt67ogkpn0du06ff0h@4ax.com>,
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:14:26 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:


No, I am posting a name which includes an impossible email that to
anyone with half a brain knows is not a real email, and they go on
knowing that it is an anonymous nym.

In other words, you're hiding your ID.
Which you said you don't do.
Which makes you ... a liar.

NO! You fucking idiot! As was stated already, My ID is in EVERY post I
make, and nothing you jack off at the mouth with about "lying" amounts to
a goddamned thing, you stupid twit.

If you're not a liar, then you're a congenital idiot.

No. YOU are a liar, and you are a retard by choice, which is the worst
variety.

Your *computer's* ID is
in every post.

No shit.I already stated that fact.

Ahh, I see. You're both a liar *and* a congenital idiot. And unable to read
your own sentences to boot. Reference above: "My ID is in EVERY post I make".

No, it's not. That's a lie.

*Your* ID is not.

I am the sole member of the household, you pissy little bitch. I am
the sole user of the computer, despite YOUR retarded lies about it being
"mommy's".

Oh, so Mommy gave you your own computer when you turned twelve, is that it?

Regardless, *your* ID is not in any of the posts. You're too cowardly to use
your real name -- hardly surprising, considering the way you behave. You
wouldn't have the stones to say the things you write here to anyone's face.

And you know it.

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmo]

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:30:51 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <p4g46598lgjk1itu10t9bsgvab64k07s3n@4ax.com>, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:23:48 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <glc4659370feaq2blt67ogkpn0du06ff0h@4ax.com>,
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:14:26 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:


No, I am posting a name which includes an impossible email that to
anyone with half a brain knows is not a real email, and they go on
knowing that it is an anonymous nym.

In other words, you're hiding your ID.
Which you said you don't do.
Which makes you ... a liar.

NO! You fucking idiot! As was stated already, My ID is in EVERY post I
make, and nothing you jack off at the mouth with about "lying" amounts to
a goddamned thing, you stupid twit.

If you're not a liar, then you're a congenital idiot.

No. YOU are a liar, and you are a retard by choice, which is the worst
variety.

Your *computer's* ID is
in every post.

No shit.I already stated that fact.

Ahh, I see. You're both a liar *and* a congenital idiot.

You obviously 'see' nothing. You do, however, make shit up.

And unable to read
your own sentences to boot.

I read just fine.

Reference above: "My ID is in EVERY post I make".

No, it's not. That's a lie.

Yes, it is. It is my account, and that is what any complaint some
retarded twit like you can levy.

*Your* ID is not.

I am the sole member of the household, you pissy little bitch. I am
the sole user of the computer, despite YOUR retarded lies about it being
"mommy's".

Oh, so Mommy gave you your own computer when you turned twelve, is that it?

This is the stuff that puts you at the same level as the Donkey, or
Terrell, or Thompson, or Williams. You are nothing more than an
adolescent brain wussy boy, just like them.

Regardless, *your* ID is not in any of the posts.

It most certainly is.

You're too cowardly to use
your real name

There is no such requisite, and idiots just like you are the reason
that any intelligent man would refrain from any such practice.

-- hardly surprising, considering the way you behave.

You are hardly qualified to make an assessment that holds any validity
or credibility whatsoever.

You
wouldn't have the stones to say the things you write here to anyone's face.

Bring it on, pussy boy.

And you know it.

No, Doug. The fact is that if I were anything like the retarded twit
that you are, you would already have your dick in the dirt for the dumb
shit you have said. You are lucky that I am a nice guy, and have an
order of magnitude more maturity than a little twit like you.

 

[Jamie]

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:56:33 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:


In article <PG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad>, Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


Rich. wrote:



"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...



a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?


He didn't say that. The context makes it very clear that by "phase conductors"
he means what the NEC refers to as "ungrounded conductors", or, in the
vernacular, "hot wires".


I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.


EMT is explicitly permitted by the NEC as an equipment grounding conductor.
[2008 National Electrical Code, Article 250.118(4)]

Yes, on the solid run, but not after any couplings, connectors etc..
A Greed Wire is to be inserted in the pipe to insure a real grounding
system and each box is to be connected to this ground.

You can not use EMT or the like for a grounding source directly, it
has to have a ground wire in it and the attached equipment in the
circuit also connects to this same ground.

As for the article you popped up, I think you'll find it proteins to
the use of EMT as a grounding buss point, meaning, several grounds can
come off this point using ground clamps from a single run with no
couplings how ever, a main ground source must be bonded to this pipe.

If you truly believe otherwise, then you are practicing very dangerous
habits.

Haven't you ever heard of galvanetic issues with EMT hardware?

I work in a manufactory facility where we still have a lot of older
machines using the access boxes as the ground sources for attached
equipment with no internal ground wire feed from the main buss. I can
say in the time that I have been there, we have seen several fires from
lose EMT hardware connections causing arcs because the attached
equipment was having ground issues.

With dust,oil and paint that has been apply to these machines, it
makes a nice catalysis for a fire.
Most of the time if your lucky, the lose connects will weld them
self's long enough to force the protection to initiate.





Then the various Licensed Electricians who installed machines etc over
the years at the factory I finished tearing down yesterday were all
doing it illegally. 75,000 sq ft and no grounds in any of the
boxes/runs.

California btw..Anaheim.

yeah, I bet their GFCI's really worked reliably in wet places.

I bet workers just love how they got shocks now and then from
aux equipment.

P.S.
Old mills are grand fathered in, unless, they do updates. Any
new installations are suppose to follow code. also, years ago
it was common when switching the mill over to higher voltages, they
kept on using lower voltage receptacles. There was a transition period
allowed to give plenty of time for the switch over, mean while, they
simply did things like 480 volts in a 240 volt receptacle.. AUX
equipment would use the 208/240 etc. plugs with 480 in it.

Still today, this is being done! shame! shame!


There are exceptions to the rules how ever, insurance companies
love to force these old places to update their basic electricals with
modern wiring systems, cause they know these old mills are full of code
violations.! and grounding and old clothe wire is a big one these days,
along with wire rungs not out of reach or being protected via something
like a jacket (romix) or pipe with a ground in it.

Voltages below 50, can ignore most of everything that is in there how
ever, in this state, maybe others, the state government is now
attempting to enforce (more) low voltage licenses, installers licenses
etc.. of just about anything.

Just goes to show, its all about the money..

---
You should see the screw up that had to be corrected, hacked if you ask
me. we had a long run, a service installed from one of our 2000 amp sub
panel over to a machine that has a 500 HP drive in it along with some
other goodies. 3 EMT pipes were run, one for each phase, 2 1000 MCM in
each pipe. They ran a ground wire only in one pipe. Now keep in mind,
these pipes are running in parallel from the sub panel over to the
machine. Doing thermo imaging, we found 2 pipes were getting hot when
the machine was under heavy operation for a while. That started a
investigation. Its then we found that only 1 pipe had the ground wire
pulled.

All this was done by licensed contracted electricians. We do this
when the job is to large for the in house electricians.

The problem was correctly, not the way it really should of been, but
it covered it. We placed pipe ground clamps on both sides of each emt
connector and connected with copper bar. We later found out, that ground
couplers are made for cases like that in old factories that didn't have
ground wires in. oh well. Expensive as hell, just like the large amp
fuse adapters.

 

[Jamie]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:56:33 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:


In article <PG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad>, Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


Rich. wrote:



"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...



a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?


He didn't say that. The context makes it very clear that by "phase conductors"
he means what the NEC refers to as "ungrounded conductors", or, in the
vernacular, "hot wires".


I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.


EMT is explicitly permitted by the NEC as an equipment grounding conductor.
[2008 National Electrical Code, Article 250.118(4)]

Yes, on the solid run, but not after any couplings, connectors etc..
A Greed Wire is to be inserted in the pipe to insure a real grounding
system and each box is to be connected to this ground.

You can not use EMT or the like for a grounding source directly, it
has to have a ground wire in it and the attached equipment in the
circuit also connects to this same ground.

As for the article you popped up, I think you'll find it proteins to
the use of EMT as a grounding buss point, meaning, several grounds can
come off this point using ground clamps from a single run with no
couplings how ever, a main ground source must be bonded to this pipe.

If you truly believe otherwise, then you are practicing very dangerous
habits.

Haven't you ever heard of galvanetic issues with EMT hardware?

I work in a manufactory facility where we still have a lot of older
machines using the access boxes as the ground sources for attached
equipment with no internal ground wire feed from the main buss. I can
say in the time that I have been there, we have seen several fires from
lose EMT hardware connections causing arcs because the attached
equipment was having ground issues.

With dust,oil and paint that has been apply to these machines, it
makes a nice catalysis for a fire.
Most of the time if your lucky, the lose connects will weld them
self's long enough to force the protection to initiate.





Then the various Licensed Electricians who installed machines etc over
the years at the factory I finished tearing down yesterday were all
doing it illegally. 75,000 sq ft and no grounds in any of the
boxes/runs.

California btw..Anaheim.



Jamie is a ham radio operator who claims to be an engineer. He is
^^^^^^^^ show me

where and when I said this?
And why does a radio operator have anything to do with my abilities? I
think you have goon insane. But then again, you have been there already
for years, it seems.

Yes, I'm licensed radio operator, what do you do in your spare time?

wait, don't answer that, I may not want to know.

about as bright as the 50+ sock puppet dimbulb troll.

If that is what you think, I guess I'm above you already.

his real name and address are:

Maynard A Philbrook, Jr
520 Pleasant St.
Willimantic Ct. 06226

SO?
I have no problem letting people know who I am, but I can tell you
this. Since you have pushed so hard to keep posting personal
information, this does not look good for you. what next Terrell? Do I
need to save a copy of this?

He claims his company continues to use chemicals banned by the EPA,
Yes, we have permits and process stations designed for using such

chemicals until supplies are depleted. This goes with proper
certification paper work and inspections. Do you have a problem with that?

that he reused outlets at higher than rated voltages where he works. He
So out of touch with reality.
pretends he is intelligent, but rarely makes a post without a dozen
spelling and punctuation errors, along with words that make no sense. A
My grammar may not be up to your standards, how ever, I don't seem to

have any difficulties conveying to you that you are, an (asshole)!, did
you understand that?

lot like your friend Bill Sloman who cross posts here sometimes. The
old SOB who whines about everything American, and that they discriminate
against him in Europe, because he's old.

I don't know how Bill Sloman got into this conversation? Sorry Bill
for any inconvenience. You have to consider the source. I would like to
apologize for idiots like this, but I don't think it would do any good,
ignorance is bliss.

Sorry Mr. Terrell, go cry elsewhere. Or better yet, go beat your head
against a wall some where. Maybe the boys in white coats will
honor you with a visit.

I can't honestly believe that brian of yours, generates enough energy
to operate the keyboard.

 

[jk]

Bart! <B@rt_The_Sheriff_Is_A_Nig**!.org> wrote:

It is Usenet, you stupid twit, and Usenet has "posting conventions",
Get a dictionary an look up "conventions"

not gang boy mentality rampant anarchy, dumbfuck.
Not "impolite foul mouthed rampant spamming" either, but then you do

like to do that.

get a life,

Grow the fuck up.
I did. Probably before your momma was done with your diapers, given

the teenage level of your discourse here.

infact just
start counting on your 13 toes.
Did your retarded father teach you that one, dumbfuck?
You do seem rather stuck on that word, is your insult auto-responder

running out of synonyms for your own name?

Not that you are anything but a
useless, small minded, fowl mouthed, troll.

Sorry, dipshit, but someone relating standard Usenet conventions to you
is not trolling.

Spewing is not 'relating", but I will grant that the VERY small part
of your spewage that relates to that can not be completely so
categorized. But given that it still is <.01% of your total
garbage......

If you look like a troll, and spew like a troll, we can not be truly
taken to task, just because one small part of your ancestry has fairy
in it.

You disregarding said conventions,
And in exactly WHAT way is having my clock set in a way that messes

with your autospammer "disregarding" a "convention?

Set your PC clock right, you inconsiderate fucking Usenet Retard!
Just to make a foul mouthed multi headed spamming troll happy?

(You really need to increase your available range of insults. Your
lack of shading and subtlety makes you a faded dot matrix printer, in
a color inkjet on photo paper world.)
jk

 

[jk]

"Herbert John \"Jackie\" Gleason" <BufordTJustice@Texarkanacops.gov>
wrote:

Trust me, I am not the only one that gets annoyed when a retard posts

Sock puppets don't count. Not even if you have multiple
personalities for them, which you sadly, do not seem to.

into Usenet, and doesn't care about ANY of the fucking conventions.

Not using sock puppets would be another convention, one which you

chose to ignore. .....'sock puppet heal thyself". { or is that
'Heel thyself" and save thy sole?)
jk

 

[jk]

Bart! <B@rt_The_Sheriff_Is_A_Nig**!.org> wrote:

Then it should also be obvious that I am not attempting to hide
anything, dumbshit.
De minimus, it is an attempt to do so be it lame or not.

Which makes it obvious that the convention as you
claim is meaningless.
So any convention YOU don't like is "meaningless" any you do is

sacred.

There is no hiding, and it is 'quite obvious' that you have
no clue why I do it.

I doubt you do either

They are 'nyms'. A 'sock puppett' as you call it IS where the person is
attempting to hide his ID.

a pseudonym is by it's very nature an attempt to at least obscure
identity. Use of multiple ones is an attempt to further do so. If
you are not, then attach the same sig to all of them, with your real
ID, or at least a consistent sockpuppet one.


jk

 

[jk]

My ID gets >posted with every post I make,

Yeah right



jk

 

[jk]

AwlSome Auger <AwlSomeAuger@BuyOneGetOneFree.org> wrote:

Set your goddamned PC clock right, you absolute retard.

Since this is your second eloquent post----
If you can't deal with it get off the usenet, get a life, infact just
start counting on your 13 toes. Not that you are anything but a
useless, small minded, fowl mouthed, troll.
jk

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jamie wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:56:33 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:


In article <PG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad>, Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


Rich. wrote:



"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...



a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?


He didn't say that. The context makes it very clear that by "phase conductors"
he means what the NEC refers to as "ungrounded conductors", or, in the
vernacular, "hot wires".


I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.


EMT is explicitly permitted by the NEC as an equipment grounding conductor.
[2008 National Electrical Code, Article 250.118(4)]

Yes, on the solid run, but not after any couplings, connectors etc..
A Greed Wire is to be inserted in the pipe to insure a real grounding
system and each box is to be connected to this ground.

You can not use EMT or the like for a grounding source directly, it
has to have a ground wire in it and the attached equipment in the
circuit also connects to this same ground.

As for the article you popped up, I think you'll find it proteins to
the use of EMT as a grounding buss point, meaning, several grounds can
come off this point using ground clamps from a single run with no
couplings how ever, a main ground source must be bonded to this pipe.

If you truly believe otherwise, then you are practicing very dangerous
habits.

Haven't you ever heard of galvanetic issues with EMT hardware?

I work in a manufactory facility where we still have a lot of older
machines using the access boxes as the ground sources for attached
equipment with no internal ground wire feed from the main buss. I can
say in the time that I have been there, we have seen several fires from
lose EMT hardware connections causing arcs because the attached
equipment was having ground issues.

With dust,oil and paint that has been apply to these machines, it
makes a nice catalysis for a fire.
Most of the time if your lucky, the lose connects will weld them
self's long enough to force the protection to initiate.





Then the various Licensed Electricians who installed machines etc over
the years at the factory I finished tearing down yesterday were all
doing it illegally. 75,000 sq ft and no grounds in any of the
boxes/runs.

California btw..Anaheim.



Jamie is a ham radio operator who claims to be an engineer. He is
^^^^^^^^ show me
where and when I said this?
And why does a radio operator have anything to do with my abilities? I
think you have goon insane. But then again, you have been there already
for years, it seems.

Yes, I'm licensed radio operator, what do you do in your spare time?

wait, don't answer that, I may not want to know.

about as bright as the 50+ sock puppet dimbulb troll.

If that is what you think, I guess I'm above you already.

his real name and address are:

Maynard A Philbrook, Jr
520 Pleasant St.
Willimantic Ct. 06226

SO?
I have no problem letting people know who I am, but I can tell you
this. Since you have pushed so hard to keep posting personal
information, this does not look good for you. what next Terrell? Do I
need to save a copy of this?

He claims his company continues to use chemicals banned by the EPA,
Yes, we have permits and process stations designed for using such
chemicals until supplies are depleted. This goes with proper
certification paper work and inspections. Do you have a problem with that?

that he reused outlets at higher than rated voltages where he works. He
So out of touch with reality.
pretends he is intelligent, but rarely makes a post without a dozen
spelling and punctuation errors, along with words that make no sense. A
My grammar may not be up to your standards, how ever, I don't seem to
have any difficulties conveying to you that you are, an (asshole)!, did
you understand that?
lot like your friend Bill Sloman who cross posts here sometimes. The
old SOB who whines about everything American, and that they discriminate
against him in Europe, because he's old.

I don't know how Bill Sloman got into this conversation? Sorry Bill
for any inconvenience. You have to consider the source. I would like to
apologize for idiots like this, but I don't think it would do any good,
ignorance is bliss.

Sorry Mr. Terrell, go cry elsewhere. Or better yet, go beat your head
against a wall some where. Maybe the boys in white coats will
honor you with a visit.

I can't honestly believe that brian of yours, generates enough energy
to operate the keyboard.

'that brian of yous' says it all, Maynard.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <Hgt8m.7720$vp.2574@newsfe12.iad>, Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

You should see the screw up that had to be corrected, hacked if you ask
me. we had a long run, a service installed from one of our 2000 amp sub
panel over to a machine that has a 500 HP drive in it along with some
other goodies. 3 EMT pipes were run, one for each phase, 2 1000 MCM in
each pipe.

Do you see anything wrong yet?

They ran a ground wire only in one pipe.

Hint: that isn't it.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <vjn465ts5hgccpmc0fh519iakmfhd7p27h@4ax.com>, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

No, Doug. The fact is that if I were anything like the retarded twit
that you are, you would already have your dick in the dirt for the dumb
shit you have said. You are lucky that I am a nice guy, and have an
order of magnitude more maturity than a little twit like you.

Such a stunning display of that maturity.

If you want to convince people that you're anything other than a twelve- or
thirteen-year-old using your mother's computer, a good place to start would be
writing on an adult level. That means communicating without profanity, without
namecalling, without junior-high-school insults. So far, you have not
demonstrated yourself capable of doing that. So the obvious conclusion is that
you're a prepubescent, snot-nosed kid.

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmo]

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:52:06 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <vjn465ts5hgccpmc0fh519iakmfhd7p27h@4ax.com>, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

No, Doug. The fact is that if I were anything like the retarded twit
that you are, you would already have your dick in the dirt for the dumb
shit you have said. You are lucky that I am a nice guy, and have an
order of magnitude more maturity than a little twit like you.

Such a stunning display of that maturity.

If you want to convince people that you're anything other than a twelve- or
thirteen-year-old using your mother's computer, a good place to start would be
writing on an adult level. That means communicating without profanity, without
namecalling, without junior-high-school insults.

How ironic that you make that statement immediately after you make one
of those very remarks. Except that yours barely rises above elementary
school level.

So far, you have not
demonstrated yourself capable of doing that.

You seem to be blind when you do it.

So the obvious conclusion is that
you're a prepubescent, snot-nosed kid.

What is obvious is that you have zero capacity to make assessments
about others, and any you make have zero credence.

 

[Rich.]

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:h3u1si$kh0$1@news.eternal-september.org...

In article <Hgt8m.7720$vp.2574@newsfe12.iad>, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

You should see the screw up that had to be corrected, hacked if you ask
me. we had a long run, a service installed from one of our 2000 amp sub
panel over to a machine that has a 500 HP drive in it along with some
other goodies. 3 EMT pipes were run, one for each phase, 2 1000 MCM in
each pipe.

Do you see anything wrong yet?

They ran a ground wire only in one pipe.

Hint: that isn't it.

Too easy! You cannot run the phase conductors separately like that. When
running parallel feeds like that, it should've been 2 conduits with the 3
phase conductors in each.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <qew8m.7706$0e4.7348@newsfe19.iad>, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:h3u1si$kh0$1@news.eternal-september.org...
In article <Hgt8m.7720$vp.2574@newsfe12.iad>, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

You should see the screw up that had to be corrected, hacked if you ask
me. we had a long run, a service installed from one of our 2000 amp sub
panel over to a machine that has a 500 HP drive in it along with some
other goodies. 3 EMT pipes were run, one for each phase, 2 1000 MCM in
each pipe.

Do you see anything wrong yet?

They ran a ground wire only in one pipe.

Hint: that isn't it.

Too easy! You cannot run the phase conductors separately like that. When
running parallel feeds like that, it should've been 2 conduits with the 3
phase conductors in each.

Of course you can't, and of course it should. But Jamie didn't realize that --

he still thinks the problem is the lack of [completely unnecessary] ground
wires in the other two tubes.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <jf3565dm0vgksncm9evd5dn4nsj6mn12qc@4ax.com>, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:
[drivel snipped]

Wow, Mom's really letting you stay up late tonight, isn't she?

 

[Bruce L. Bergman]

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:05:57 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 , Jamie wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
Jamie wrote:
Rich. wrote:
"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote

a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).

Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?

Yes, this is old - but if you want to get pedantic you CAN INDEED
take 3-phase power and make 6-phase power if you have a use for it.
They used to do it all the time on the old 'turn of the 20th Century'
transit trolley power supply stations.

They made a large double transformer to take incoming 2,400V or
4,800V 60Hz AC utility power with both a Delta and Wye output
windings, and through some magic you now had six phases of 600V AC
that were only 60 degrees apart in angular vector, not three phases
120 degrees apart.

Much easier to rectify that 6-phase AC power into nice smooth 600V
DC - which was done with a rotary converter "filing off all the high
spots and dumping it in the low spots" that was for all practical
concerns an autotransformer motor-generator. Rather efficient, no
drama, they just worked.

No high current solid state rectifier plants would be available for
many decades, and the early mercury tube rectifiers were unreliable
and lossy.

Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris CA has a totally restored and
operating rotary converter station on display and available for tours.
The Auto-Start and Auto-Stop sequencing with a huge cam switch (and a
current sensing setup so it could do it all by itself as a trolley
came through the served rural district) is a true display of Rube
Goldberg Engineering - and they let me push the button, too.

Nice panel mounted open-frame contactors with arc chutes sending
controlled little gouts of flame toward the floor...

He didn't say that. The context makes it very clear that by "phase conductors"
he means what the NEC refers to as "ungrounded conductors", or, in the
vernacular, "hot wires".


I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.


EMT is explicitly permitted by the NEC as an equipment grounding conductor.
[2008 National Electrical Code, Article 250.118(4)]

Yes, on the solid run, but not after any couplings, connectors etc..
A Greed Wire is to be inserted in the pipe to insure a real grounding
system and each box is to be connected to this ground.

You can not use EMT or the like for a grounding source directly, it
has to have a ground wire in it and the attached equipment in the
circuit also connects to this same ground.

As for the article you popped up, I think you'll find it proteins to
the use of EMT as a grounding buss point, meaning, several grounds can
come off this point using ground clamps from a single run with no
couplings how ever, a main ground source must be bonded to this pipe.

If you truly believe otherwise, then you are practicing very dangerous
habits.

Haven't you ever heard of galvanetic issues with EMT hardware?

I work in a manufactory facility where we still have a lot of older
machines using the access boxes as the ground sources for attached
equipment with no internal ground wire feed from the main buss. I can
say in the time that I have been there, we have seen several fires from
lose EMT hardware connections causing arcs because the attached
equipment was having ground issues.

With dust,oil and paint that has been apply to these machines, it
makes a nice catalysis for a fire.
Most of the time if your lucky, the lose connects will weld them
self's long enough to force the protection to initiate.

That NEC section starts out: The equipment grounding conductor
shall be ONE OR MORE OR A COMBINATION OF THE FOLLOWING...

You CAN used the EMT as the sole safety ground source in older
installations, it is "legal" to do so - but you would be a fool to
trust it as truly safe.

I always combine them - you make up the conduit system properly as
one of the grounding paths, then run a seperate grounding conductor
inside the conduit, even if it really isn't called for - because WHEN
someone gets hurt or killed they start asking a lot of very
uncomfortable questions. And if they don't like the answers...

Electrical safety is a very odd thing - For any situation there are
many correct answers and many wrong ones. Pick one or more of the
correct ones, and avoid the known wrong ones.

Then the various Licensed Electricians who installed machines etc over
the years at the factory I finished tearing down yesterday were all
doing it illegally. 75,000 sq ft and no grounds in any of the
boxes/runs.

California btw..Anaheim.

Legal, but not necessarily smart. But if the customer refuses to
pay for a seperate grounding conductor to get the job done a little
cheaper, and it is legal the way they want it done, there isn't a lot
you can do.

Then again, most of those old buildings have large amounts of steel
in them as building materials, and they will serve as secondary ground
paths - unintentional, but whatever works...

yeah, I bet their GFCI's really worked reliably in wet places.

I bet workers just love how they got shocks now and then from
aux equipment.

P.S.
Old mills are grand fathered in, unless, they do updates. Any
new installations are suppose to follow code. also, years ago
it was common when switching the mill over to higher voltages, they
kept on using lower voltage receptacles. There was a transition period
allowed to give plenty of time for the switch over, mean while, they
simply did things like 480 volts in a 240 volt receptacle.. AUX
equipment would use the 208/240 etc. plugs with 480 in it.

Still today, this is being done! shame! shame!

It gets corrected when an outside entity blows up an expensive piece
of test gear - and then bills the plant for it...

There are exceptions to the rules how ever, insurance companies
love to force these old places to update their basic electricals with
modern wiring systems, cause they know these old mills are full of code
violations.! and grounding and old clothe wire is a big one these days,
along with wire rungs not out of reach or being protected via something
like a jacket (romix) or pipe with a ground in it.

Voltages below 50, can ignore most of everything that is in there how
ever, in this state, maybe others, the state government is now
attempting to enforce (more) low voltage licenses, installers licenses
etc.. of just about anything.

Just goes to show, its all about the money..

---
You should see the screw up that had to be corrected, hacked if you ask
me. we had a long run, a service installed from one of our 2000 amp sub
panel over to a machine that has a 500 HP drive in it along with some
other goodies. 3 EMT pipes were run, one for each phase, 2 1000 MCM in
each pipe. They ran a ground wire only in one pipe. Now keep in mind,
these pipes are running in parallel from the sub panel over to the
machine. Doing thermo imaging, we found 2 pipes were getting hot when
the machine was under heavy operation for a while. That started a
investigation. Its then we found that only 1 pipe had the ground wire
pulled.

All this was done by licensed contracted electricians. We do this
when the job is to large for the in house electricians.

The problem was correctly, not the way it really should of been, but
it covered it. We placed pipe ground clamps on both sides of each emt
connector and connected with copper bar. We later found out, that ground
couplers are made for cases like that in old factories that didn't have
ground wires in. oh well. Expensive as hell, just like the large amp
fuse adapters.

And the power was probably imbalanced, too. Never worked with
anything that big, but AFAICT the best practice is to have multiple
conduits in parallel, but run one conductor for each phase through
each conduit, and cut the wire so they are all matching lengths.

Each conduit would have a 750MCM of all three phases, and a smaller
ground. That way they magnetically cancel each other out on start
current Locked Rotor Amps surges.

Having one phase in each pipe puts a LOT of stress on the hangers,
every time that 500HP motor starts those conduits with individual
phases are trying to jump off the wall from the magnetic forces. And
if they manage to do it, they will short out and all hell is truly
going to break loose.

Or just give up and install Bus Duct like a practical person.

--<< Bruce >>--

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmo]

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:23:32 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

Wow, Mom's really letting you stay up late tonight, isn't she?

Grow up, Miller, you pussy.