Driver to drive?

[jk]

krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

That's unusual. All three phases are generally on each pole in
populated areas. Some rural areas do have only one phase distributed
down each road. It is uncommon to have all three phases run into a
home, though.

For SOME value of populated that may be true, but almost every where
I have lived, has only singe phase on the poles, in residential areas.
Nearest 3 ph to me is at least a half mile.


jk

 

[jk]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

You could use knob & tube in rural structures a lot longer than in
cities, but that didn't make it a good idea.

And what do you have against K&T wiring?

jk

 

[krw]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:15:19 -0700, jk <klessig@suddenlink.net> wrote:

krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:


That's unusual. All three phases are generally on each pole in
populated areas. Some rural areas do have only one phase distributed
down each road. It is uncommon to have all three phases run into a
home, though.

For SOME value of populated that may be true, but almost every where
I have lived, has only singe phase on the poles, in residential areas.
Nearest 3 ph to me is at least a half mile.

*Every* house I've ever lived in had 3-phase "on the pole". None had

3-phase service, though. My father wanted 3-phase service when they
built their house in '59, but the power company wanted a minimum of
$100/mo just to bring it down from the pole to the weather head.
Wasn't worth it for him to work at home.

 

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:00:07 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

That's unusual. All three phases are generally on each pole in
populated areas. Some rural areas do have only one phase distributed
down each road. It is uncommon to have all three phases run into a
home, though.
MANY street transformers are single phase only in residential areas.

The main feed would in all likelihood be 3 phase, with phases
separated to feed different streets/loops. Getting 3 phase power to a
building in areas like this is VERY expensive.

 

On Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:05:22 -0400, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net>
wrote:

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:zmw5m.16430$iz2.787@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
In article <U0T4m.16949$wE4.12720@newsfe02.iad>, "Rich."
rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:
I've already posted several links within this thread to show that licenses
are required by law.

Not everywhere, they aren't.

To date you have posted none, nada, zilch, zip to show
any one place in this country where a license is not required to do
electrical work.

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Electrician_License.htm

Some excerpts that you will find educational:

"Please note that where no state agency is listed below, there may be
local
licensing agencies that would have control ..."

"Illinois... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with
local
jurisdictions"

"Indiana ... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with
local
jurisdictions"

"Iowa ... The law requires that all individual contractors and businesses
performing "construction" work within Iowa be registered with the Division
of
Labor if they earn at least $2,000 a year from that work."

Kansas -- no state licensing agency listed

Mississippi -- no licensing information listed

"Missouri ... check with local jurisdictions for licensing info"

"New York ... check with local jurisdictions for electrical licensing
requirements"

"Ohio ... licenses commercial contractors ... they do not license
residential
contractors ..."

"The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has no requirements related to the
registration, certification or licensure of contractors (or their
employees)
that are engaged in the construction industry. Some of Pennsylvania's
2,565
municipalities have established local licensure or certification
requirements
for contractors or construction trades people. ... The Commonwealth has no
jurisdiction in this matter ... "

So much for your blanket claim that "licenses are required by law." They
are
in many places, sure -- but this ought to make it clear to you that they
certainly are *not* required everywhere.

What your excerpts are stating is that licensing is controlled at the local
level instead of at a state level. None of them say that a license is not
required.

In states where licencing is local, unless ALL jurisdictions require
licencing, there would be areas where licencing is not required.

I'm sure this is the case. Vast majority of states, however, DO have
licencing at the state level

 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:08:49 -0700, Jim Stewart <jstewart@jkmicro.com>
wrote:

clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:14:43 -0700, Jim Stewart <jstewart@jkmicro.com
wrote:

life imitates life wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:33:29 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <e3fa55lbl02gq5pkhbmh8tredn4h79e9ps@4ax.com>, life imitates life wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 11:46:16 -0400, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:

only legal for him to do so if a homeowners permit is pulled
Some jurisdictions do not even have any such animal as a "homeowner's
permit".

In Ohio, for example, I would have to get a "building permit" to make
an add on to my structure or to add a permanent building on my property.

I do not know, however, what the requirements are for any electrical
work done in said project.

Regardless, to be legal, ALL has to be inspected.
Depends on where you are. There are jurisdictions that have no permitting,
licensing, or inspection requirements.
I would think that such conditions are based on nearest proximity of
assets that belong to others.
You might think that. I'd be inclined to think
that it has something to do with the influence of the
electrician's union in the particular jurisdiction...


In the VAST majority of the country licencing and the unions are
totally divorced from each other.

In some imaginary 7th grade civics class.

In the real world that I live in, the various
unions never miss an opportunity to support
any elected official that is willing to pass
laws or code that will increase their wealth
and job security.
Well, where I live, self employed electricians are NOT unionized. The

vast majority of residential electrical work is subcontracted by the
contractor to numerous small electrical contractors - many of which
have no employees. All partners. Therefore, no union.

Industrial and commercial electrical work is almost universally union
because the contractors are union shops or use predominantly union
subs - and union workers generally will not work on the same job as
non-union workers.

Licencing is up to government crooks.
Unions are non-government crooks
Same cloth, different bolt

 

[krw]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:19:30 -0700, ChairmanOfTheBored
<RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:02:21 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Why can't you stay on topic?

It is the same thing. Have you ever even seen a UID?

I see your neuron is lonely again, on a Friday night.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:27:40 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:19:30 -0700, ChairmanOfTheBored
RUBored@crackasmile.org> wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:02:21 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Why can't you stay on topic?

It is the same thing. Have you ever even seen a UID?

I see your neuron is lonely again, on a Friday night.

I see that your alternate asshole retard personality has resumed
control.

 

[Thomas]

Rich. wrote:

"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...
a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).

Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

I am well aware of this. However, I'm thinking of the future owner of
the house whose knowledge of electric wiring consists of only
plug-it-in/turn-it-on. If they decide THEY are going work on this
installation and open up a J-box and discover a couple of dozen wires in
it (never mind the box extensions)... Well, if you don't have the proper
knowledge or training for the task, either learn the proper way, or get
an knowledgeable person to do it for you.

BTW: I don't trust the EMT-to-box connection via the connectors. As
such, I pull an equipment grounding wire for MY peace of mind.

Thomas

 

[Art Deco]

On Jul 11, 12:42 am, "\"The Great One\"" <honestj...@centurytel.net>
wrote:

"Art Deco" <art.colorado.carl.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:b519dfe2-b44f-4ba8-ae98-23bc18114edd@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

With great regret and crying and weeping, Peter "Eater' Ross had to
fire Lionel Lauer a.k.a. Bob Larter from his Temporary FNVW job
yesterday due to Lionel's incompetence and inability to post to AUK
24/7 as required by PJR for PJR's Domination of the World through
AUK.!

We all wish Lionel Lauer a better future and good luck on his upcoming
sex-change!
--
Art Deco

Gee, that's too fuckin' Bad.....I enjoyed kicking his "corseted" ass  !!
--
John C.

p.s.  Hi Art, we still on for golf tomorrow ??

Hi John, let's make it aroun two in the afternon as too early and I
might get my balls wet.
--
Art Deco

 

[Art Deco]

On Jul 11, 12:50 am, "\"The Great One\"" <honestj...@centurytel.net>
wrote:

"Art Deco" <art.colorado.carl.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:89ac89cf-3503-495f-9455-9be5566faaba@i6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 11, 12:42 am, "\"The Great One\"" <honestj...@centurytel.net
wrote:> "Art Deco" <art.colorado.carl.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:b519dfe2-b44f-4ba8-ae98-23bc18114edd@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...







With great regret and crying and weeping, Peter "Eater' Ross had to
fire Lionel Lauer a.k.a. Bob Larter from his Temporary FNVW job
yesterday due to Lionel's incompetence and inability to post to AUK
24/7 as required by PJR for PJR's Domination of the World through
AUK.!

We all wish Lionel Lauer a better future and good luck on his
upcoming
sex-change!
--
Art Deco

Gee, that's too fuckin' Bad.....I enjoyed kicking his "corseted" ass
!!
--
John C.

p.s. Hi Art, we still on for golf tomorrow ??

Hi John,  let's make it aroun two in the afternon as too early and I
might get my balls wet.
--
Art Deco
~~~~~~~~~~

LOL !!     I thought that you were going to say that getting your
"putter" wet would make it curve to the right when hanging down.......
--
Your Best Bud,
John C.

LOL.
--
Art Deco

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:22:35 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:54:29 -0700, Fred Abse
excretatauris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:18:28 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I'm in Truckee

Doing /done the Rubicon Trail, like you threatened?

Not yet; maybe in August.

We were walking around the Rainbow Bridge and decided to hike up to
the top of the China Wall, between a couple of tunnels and snow sheds
of the original Transcontinental Railroad. It's a nice short steep
hike over smooth stepped glacial-looking rocks, with some
3000-year-old petroglyphs here and there. Anyhow, when we got to the
top, there were a couple of guys in Jeeps. Turns out that you can
quasi-legally enter the tunnels near Sugar Bowl and drive through. One
of them is, I think, about 1600 feet long. The Brat will bring up her
Jeep in a weekend or two and we'll try it.

ftp://66.117.156.8/CW_Donner_Lake.jpg

ftp://66.117.156.8/CW_Tunnel.jpg

ftp://66.117.156.8/CW_sign.jpg

ftp://66.117.156.8/CW_snow_shed.jpg

ftp://66.117.156.8/CW_wall.jpg

It's a "gravity wall" constructed for the roadbed by hand, from
natural uncut rocks, no cement.

The road is Donner Pass Road, old California route 40, a section of
the original Lincoln Highway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Highway

Nice pictures, John. I shall have to go take a look myself sometime.

Bronze marker courtesy E Clampus Vitus:

You a Clamper, John?

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Jamie]

Rich. wrote:

"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...

a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.
I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?

I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <PG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad>, Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Rich. wrote:


"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...

a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.
I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?

He didn't say that. The context makes it very clear that by "phase conductors"
he means what the NEC refers to as "ungrounded conductors", or, in the
vernacular, "hot wires".

I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.

EMT is explicitly permitted by the NEC as an equipment grounding conductor.
[2008 National Electrical Code, Article 250.118(4)]

 

[ATP*]

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in message
newsG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad...

Rich. wrote:


"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...

a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.
I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?

I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.

A grounding conductor is not a ground source.

 

[Jamie]

Doug Miller wrote:

In article <PG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad>, Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Rich. wrote:


"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...


a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?


He didn't say that. The context makes it very clear that by "phase conductors"
he means what the NEC refers to as "ungrounded conductors", or, in the
vernacular, "hot wires".

I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.


EMT is explicitly permitted by the NEC as an equipment grounding conductor.
[2008 National Electrical Code, Article 250.118(4)]
Yes, on the solid run, but not after any couplings, connectors etc..

A Greed Wire is to be inserted in the pipe to insure a real grounding
system and each box is to be connected to this ground.

You can not use EMT or the like for a grounding source directly, it
has to have a ground wire in it and the attached equipment in the
circuit also connects to this same ground.

As for the article you popped up, I think you'll find it proteins to
the use of EMT as a grounding buss point, meaning, several grounds can
come off this point using ground clamps from a single run with no
couplings how ever, a main ground source must be bonded to this pipe.

If you truly believe otherwise, then you are practicing very dangerous
habits.

Haven't you ever heard of galvanetic issues with EMT hardware?

I work in a manufactory facility where we still have a lot of older
machines using the access boxes as the ground sources for attached
equipment with no internal ground wire feed from the main buss. I can
say in the time that I have been there, we have seen several fires from
lose EMT hardware connections causing arcs because the attached
equipment was having ground issues.

With dust,oil and paint that has been apply to these machines, it
makes a nice catalysis for a fire.
Most of the time if your lucky, the lose connects will weld them
self's long enough to force the protection to initiate.

 

[Jamie]

ATP* wrote:

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in message
newsG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad...

Rich. wrote:


"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...


a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?

I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.


A grounding conductor is not a ground source.

I think some people that call them self a electrician should
take a good long look in the mirror.

And licensing has nothing to do with what you actually know about
the field. We've had licensed electricians walk in our facility looking
for job and after the interview, I can understand why they are not
employed.

I would say with the majority I have seen here, they wouldn't be
getting a job at our facility, not even a fuse puller..


Really,. there is so much illegal and dangerous drivel taking place
on this subject, it's unbelievable.


And while I'm at it..


We do have a position available for a second shift maintenance
Electrician. If any one is interested and wants to know more about the
duties of this job, you can Email me. I'll fill you in on the rest
or, I'll just give you the job address and you do the rest your self.

Job location is in the central part of Connecticut.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <8u96m.21306$Il.14829@newsfe16.iad>, Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

In article <PG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad>, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:
I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.


EMT is explicitly permitted by the NEC as an equipment grounding conductor.
[2008 National Electrical Code, Article 250.118(4)]
Yes, on the solid run, but not after any couplings, connectors etc..

Not true. The NEC requires bonding only "where necessary to ensure electrical
continuity."

A Greed Wire is to be inserted in the pipe to insure a real grounding
system and each box is to be connected to this ground.

Really? Where in the Code is this supposed requirement found?

You can not use EMT or the like for a grounding source directly,

Nobody ever said that you could.

it
has to have a ground wire in it and the attached equipment in the
circuit also connects to this same ground.

True, but completely irrelevant. We were talking about using EMT as an
equipment grounding conductor -- which is explicitly permitted by the Code --
not using it as part of the grounding electrode system.

As for the article you popped up, I think you'll find it proteins to
the use of EMT as a grounding buss point,

Wrong.

"The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing the circuit
conductors shall be one or more of a combination of the following: ...
1) [Cu or Al wire]
2) Rigid metal conduit
3) Intermediate metal conduit
4) Electrical metallic tubing
..."

[2008 NEC, Article 250.118]

meaning, several grounds can
come off this point using ground clamps from a single run with no
couplings how ever, a main ground source must be bonded to this pipe.

Maybe you ought to actually read what the Code says, instead of making stuff
up.

If you truly believe otherwise, then you are practicing very dangerous
habits.

The NFPA (publishers of the NEC) apparently don't think it's dangerous to use
EMT as an equipment grounding conductor. If you believe it is, you're of
course welcome to make your objections known to them, and try to persuade them
to change their minds.

In the meantime, I'll continue to install wiring in compliance with the actual
provisions of the Code, and pay no attention to the unsubstantiated claims of
people who clearly do not know what the Code permits or prohibits.

Haven't you ever heard of galvanetic issues with EMT hardware?

Of course -- and that's why there are places where the Code prohibits its use.

I work in a manufactory facility where we still have a lot of older
machines using the access boxes as the ground sources for attached
equipment with no internal ground wire feed from the main buss. I can
say in the time that I have been there, we have seen several fires from
lose EMT hardware connections

If the EMT connections were actually loose enough to arc, that means they were
improperly installed.

Considering your ignorance of the Code, though, I think it's reasonable to
question your qualifications to determine the cause of either the arcs or the
fires.

causing arcs because the attached
equipment was having ground issues.

The problem obviously is the "ground issues" on the equipment, compounded by
improper installation of the EMT -- not the EMT itself.

With dust,oil and paint that has been apply to these machines, it
makes a nice catalysis for a fire.
Most of the time if your lucky, the lose connects will weld them
self's long enough to force the protection to initiate.

You probably ought to find a job at a place that hires _qualified_
electricians.

 

[Doug Miller]

In article <uJ96m.1520$nU7.304@newsfe20.iad>, Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

ATP* wrote:

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in message
newsG86m.27$TL.25@newsfe25.iad...

Rich. wrote:


"Thomas" <royalheart39@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:Snv5m.26$C82.7@newsfe05.iad...


a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor).


Actually, by code you can have 6 phase conductors, 3 neutrals, and use
the EMT as your ground, giving you 6 circuits instead of just 4.

I would like to know where you have 6 phase service?

I won't go into the use of EMT as a ground source.


A grounding conductor is not a ground source.


I think some people that call them self a electrician should
take a good long look in the mirror.

Physician, heal thyself.

"Ground source" (a term not used by the NEC) and "equipment grounding
conductor" are *not* the same thing, your confusion of the two
notwithstanding.

 

[JosephKK]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:46:31 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <mvff555u4afatdqh1l10k8b994er2i6nfs@4ax.com>, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:58:02 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <U0T4m.16949$wE4.12720@newsfe02.iad>, "Rich." >><rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:
I've already posted several links within this thread to show that >>licenses=20
are required by law.=20

Not everywhere, they aren't.

To date you have posted none, nada, zilch, zip to show=20
any one place in this country where a license is not required to do=20
electrical work.=20

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Electrician_License.htm

Some excerpts that you will find educational:

"Please note that where no state agency is listed below, there may be >>local=20
licensing agencies that would have control ..."

"Illinois... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with>> local=20
jurisdictions"

"Indiana ... no licensing of electricians at the state level, check with>> local=20
jurisdictions"

"Iowa ... The law requires that all individual contractors and >>businesses=20
performing =93construction=94 work within Iowa be registered with the >>Division of=20
Labor if they earn at least $2,000 a year from that work."

Kansas -- no state licensing agency listed

Mississippi -- no licensing information listed

"Missouri ... check with local jurisdictions for licensing info"

"New York ... check with local jurisdictions for electrical licensing=20
requirements"

"Ohio ... licenses commercial contractors ... they do not license >>residential=20
contractors ..."

"The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has no requirements related to the=20
registration, certification or licensure of contractors (or their >>employees)=20
that are engaged in the construction industry. Some of Pennsylvania=92s >>2,565=20
municipalities have established local licensure or certification >>requirements=20
for contractors or construction trades people. ... The Commonwealth has >>no=20
jurisdiction in this matter ... "

So much for your blanket claim that "licenses are required by law." They>> are=20
in many places, sure -- but this ought to make it clear to you that they>>=20
certainly are *not* required everywhere.

You have staked your claim well, but forgot to provide any backup
(links). I will take your position under advisement.

Look again. I posted the link.

It seems that the data could be pried out of it piecemeal. Or maybe
not, i did not spend much time trying. After all it is such an
obvious shill site.