Driver to drive?

[Michael A. Terrell]

krw wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:00:13 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


krw wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:22:34 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:46:59 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:33:28 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:08:59 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <Wg44m.10923$8P7.9233@newsfe21.iad>, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:

It is not regular practice to inform the owner, unless something is found to
be wrong. Having 245v in the building is not normal, and there is a lot of
equipment out there that does not have taps. Equipment without taps could be
damaged by this higher than usual voltage.

Nonsense. 245V = 240V + 2%. That's just not a big deal -- as long as it's a
nominal 240V supply. If the nominal supply is 208V, then yes, that's a huge
problem. But you have no idea what the supply in the building is supposed to
be, so you have no basis for saying that it's "not normal".

It is the responsibility of the electrician to make sure the equipment he is
wiring can correctly run on the power being supplied.

No, it's not, unless there's a contract specifically requiring him to do so.
The electrician's responsibility is to install the circuits specified by the
person who hired him. The one who owns the equipment is responsible for
preparing the specs.

IMO the electrician
did not do his job correctly.

In what way?


220 to 245 is an 11.4% difference.

220V service doesn't exist, DimBulb.

Read the post,idiot. If there are no 220 volt service provisions, why
are there "220 volt taps" on equipment?

Irrelevant to the real world, DimBulb. 220V is so 1950s.


Has anyone ever seen a 1950s CNC machine?

Does a Jaquard loom count? Oh, 1950s, not 1750s. ;-)

Did it have a $4000 controller board? ;-)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

 

[Jamie]

langwadt@fonz.dk wrote:

On 5 Jul., 08:58, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 23:40:18 -0700, the renowned John E.



incogn...@xbjcd.com> wrote:

I have been asked to offer an opinion in a sensitive situation.

A machinist moved his shop across town and required some rewiring (3-phase
outlets, conduit, etc.) in order to locate some machines where he wanted
them.

He hires a guy who's not a pro (and later discovers is not insured) but has
done shop wiring before and had a good attitude and track record. The guy
does good work. No complaints about the quality of his work.

Owner throws the switch, all works fine.

The story continues 4 weeks later when the very expensive CNC fries its
controller PCB to the tune of $4000.

Turns out the voltage in the shop was upward of 245 and the taps in the CNC's
power supply were set for 220.

What is the legal and moral responsibility of each party?

What will not be helpful are replies about the character or intelligence of
either of the players or their actions.

Thanks.

IMO, 11% high voltage over nominal should not "fry" the controller
board in the first place.



a loose neutral can result in all kinds of strange voltages depending
on the load on the
Hey, our electrical staff call them noodles over here.

phases, so the 11% might just be what the voltage was when it was
measured, not what
it was when the controller was fried

-Lasse

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:04:40 -0400, john <amdinc@intergrafix.net> wrote:

Rich. wrote:


"Gunner Asch" <gunner@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:r29255hd4o21ml5ml69f68ikbpk7i96sk0@4ax.com...

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:04:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:


So then what am I? I passed the tests, at one time held a (California)
C7 and C10 license, ( as responsible managing employee for a large
company who before me had NO liceneses), have worked for the past 12 yrs
as a machine shop electrician (with no failures to date), CNC repair
tech and so forth.

However..Ive refused to belong to any union since 1974, when my 6 week
stint as a UAW worker left me cold about unions.

Am I just a "handyman" because I dont belong to a union <spit>?

My business cards indicate that I do electrical (non licensed) as well
as CNC and Machine Tool Repair.

So am I simply a "handyman"?

Inquiring minds really want to know.

Gunner


Yes, you're a glorified handyman...happy? ;-)

Yes you have the knowledge and experience, but as long as you do not
hold a valid license, you can call yourself an electrician, but you
cannot call yourself a licensed electrician. As an unlicensed
electrician you cannot LEGALLY perform ANY electrical work outside of
your own single family residence. BTW, union or not makes no difference,
it's state law we're talking about.




Every state has a set of laws for that state. Each state has its own
requirements.

Licensed electrician does not mean qualified electrician. I would not
let most licensed electricians touch any 3 Ř electrical equipment in my
plant.

John

Bingo! As several of my clients have found out much to their dismay,
before hiring me to resolve their issues. Now I am called before anyone
else.

Gunner

"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:12:13 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:28:50 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:


A CNC machine is something different than a light bulb. Few
electricians know more than how to connect a light bulb and outlets.
Besides, the story doesn't tell whether the machine has a permanent
mains connection or is connected by a cord.


I know of zero CNC machines that operate from a line cord.
And what is your definition of a line cord?

You've never seen 3 Wire with ground, plugs connected to cords on
electrical equipment?

He must not get out much....shrug.

And in most of California..that means far far different requirements
...legally.. than does hardwiring.

Gunner

"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

 

[Jamie]

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:52:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
gunner@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:


On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:39:41 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:


On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 11:27:07 -0500, "Greg O" <goo1959@hotmail.com> wrote:


Maybe, maybe not. My thoughts are the equipment was correctly wired, but not
set up properly.


I cannot believe the remarks made by some in Usenet.

Contradict yourself within a single sentence often, idiot?

actually...from a Real World point of view..Greg makes a lot of sense.



You're an idiot that performs unlicensed works, and thinks it is OK to
do so.

Nothing you claim has ANY credence whatsoever.
You are in the dark boy..

Our company hires licensed Electricians for basic things when our
electrical staff are to busy to perform the job, we have 3 different
businesses we use and each one of them do more illegal hack work than
you can even imagine.
Many times they return to rework after close inspection from the
trade associates.

We have some unlicensed electricians that work for us that I put more
confidence in than licensed contractors we hire.

We do not allow any contracted electricians to touch our industrial
machines.!!!!!!!! out of the 3 businesses we use, none of them have the
skill set required.
We do have specialist constructors that know the industrial
electronics, perform major over hauls and machine installments that work
with our guys. Those are the only ones that are allowed to go past an
outlet on a wall. And even then, they have some guys that are not
licensed but are very qualified.


Knowledge and the willingness to do it correctly is what matters.

Simply speaking, having a license means that you had to know something
or some one to get it, and the local government can collect taxes from
the licensed workers. The rest is just fill in for the public to justify
the need for a license.

If Licenses were only used to signify the qualification of a persons
trade, then you'd see a lot fewer licensed electricians out there.

 

[krw]

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:54:26 -0400, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net>
wrote:

"James Sweet" <jamesrsweet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h2rabn$d7g$1@news.eternal-september.org...

Depends on where you are. Here in the US, the work has to be inspected by
an inspector, not an electrician. You have to be a licensed electrician to
be hired by most electrical contracting companies, but there is no law
against unlicensed people electrical work. I've replaced electrical
service panels and added circuits for renovations in the homes of quite a
few friends and family members, I'm not licensed, but it was no trouble to
get a permit and have the work inspected when it was complete. Even
licensed electricians have to get their work inspected.

You're fooling yourself. You cannot legally do any electrical work at the
homes of your friends or family.

Again, that depends entirely on the jurisdiction. Some areas don't
have trades full employment laws.

If there is ever an electrical fire at any
building that you did electrical work in...you can kiss your life goodbye.
You can be arrested, tried in a criminal court, and sentenced to prison,
plus sued for everything you own in a civil court. This can happen to you
because it is a crime in any state (as far as I know) for you to do this
work. Liability insurance is not even an option for you because you have to
be licensed to get the insurance in the first place.

What hogwash!

 

The tap chart on my lasers runs 195-250, and they are a late 70s
design.

No one has ever answered my question, was he hooking up to a junction
box, pigtail, or direct to the taps?

Still I believe the guy is off the hook because there is no evidence
that either the setup manual was followed or a machine tech was called
in to set up the machine.

Would be nice to know what he was wiring to, as it slams down a lot of
this debate.

Also its scary how many SEDers have different interpretations of the
US Code and Practice. And as I look some of this up, often times both
sides in a given argument are correct.

Steve

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:52:22 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

A CNC machine is something different than a light bulb. Few
electricians know more than how to connect a light bulb and outlets.
Besides, the story doesn't tell whether the machine has a permanent
mains connection or is connected by a cord.

I know of zero CNC machines that operate from a line cord.

Then you have been in few CNC shops west of the Mississippi.


Don't waste your time Gunner. Dimbulb is a troll from southern
Califorina who pollutes the electronics and electrical newsgroups. His
Cox Cable IP address puts him somewhere in the San Diego area. He is an
expert on everything, except correct replies.

Diego eh? I know a bunch of ex miltiary guys retired down there, might
be talked into taking an asshole out to the desert and burying him so
only his head is above ground, then driving home and never going back.

Ill check into it and see if we can ID this guy.

Thanks!

Gunner

"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

 

[Rich.]

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:60l255dmjjuaoloi8pghp76k0ptbgi5in2@4ax.com...

If there is ever an electrical fire at any
building that you did electrical work in...you can kiss your life goodbye.
You can be arrested, tried in a criminal court, and sentenced to prison,
plus sued for everything you own in a civil court. This can happen to you
because it is a crime in any state (as far as I know) for you to do this
work. Liability insurance is not even an option for you because you have
to
be licensed to get the insurance in the first place.

What hogwash!

Oh really?

Here's one where they didn't even do any work, they just attempted to
contract it.
http://www.ocala.com/article/20081121/ARTICLES/811210291?Title=Unlicensed-contractors-arrested-in-Marion-sting

Here's an ABC article telling you flat out that even those hiring unlicensed
contractors face arrest.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CreativeConsumer/story?id=2624448

Prison time for fraud.
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/GeneralInformation/Newsroom/PressReleases/PressReleases2003/news20031222.asp

Another sting operation.
http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/target_12/local_wpri_target_12_unlicensed_contractors_sting_20090504_nk

I could go on and on posting these links, but I don't see any reason to beat
you over your head with your own ignorance.

 

[Stuart Wheaton]

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:12:13 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:28:50 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:


A CNC machine is something different than a light bulb. Few
electricians know more than how to connect a light bulb and outlets.
Besides, the story doesn't tell whether the machine has a permanent
mains connection or is connected by a cord.

I know of zero CNC machines that operate from a line cord.
And what is your definition of a line cord?

You've never seen 3 Wire with ground, plugs connected to cords on
electrical equipment?

He must not get out much....shrug.

And in most of California..that means far far different requirements
..legally.. than does hardwiring.

I love that stuff, In the shipyards, weld the stuff to the deck, put a
plug and connector on it, and it is "temporary"

 

[Greg O]

"StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt" <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote in message
news:hbp155107kftptgvtj7bsof0fhpg4doq28@4ax.com...

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 11:27:07 -0500, "Greg O" <goo1959@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have been doing commercial HVAC service for 10 years and have yet to see
an electrician verify anything past the equipment ratings tag. Look at the
tag,

I doubt that HVAC systems have the complexity at the access panel that a
multi-phased CNC machine would have.

I guess you don't get out much.
A laptop is standard issue for setting up some of the HVAC equipment I deal
with. Several VFD's per air handler is common plus computer controls to run
it all. One of the last air handlers I set up had 7 VFD's, somewhere around
15 electric motors, and was 16 feet wide, by 12 feet high, and 32 feet long.
One after that was a bit less complex, a bit larger, and cost $175,000.
Needless to say, I don't do residential!

But, the typical electrician looks at the rating plate, pulls the
appropriate wire, then walks away from the equipment. Someone else sets it
up. Same when I worked at a CNC shop years back. The machine was delivered,
set in place, the electrician ran the wires, and then someone else showed up
to set up the machine. The sparky that ran the wires had no clue about the
machine, he was there just to run the wires.
Greg

 

[Greg O]

"StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt" <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote in message
news:49p155tuu0b87qbqeek65859mmoehmh9ah@4ax.com...

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 11:27:07 -0500, "Greg O" <goo1959@hotmail.com> wrote:


Maybe, maybe not. My thoughts are the equipment was correctly wired, but
not
set up properly.


I cannot believe the remarks made by some in Usenet.

Contradict yourself within a single sentence often, idiot?

Have you considered that it is very possible to run the wire to the
equipment all to local code, NEC most likely, but the machine itself was not
setup to accept what was run to it??
I have equipment in may garage that will run on 208 volt or 240 volt single
phase and requires a jumper in the machine to be placed properly depending
on what the incoming power is. A sparky could easily run the proper wiring,
rated for the voltage and amp draw then walk away. It would be up to me to
ensure the jumpers were proper for the supplied voltage.
I see this on a daily basis on the job. I would not trust the average
electrician to make sure the machine was set up properly!
Greg

 

[krw]

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 22:06:26 -0400, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net>
wrote:

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:60l255dmjjuaoloi8pghp76k0ptbgi5in2@4ax.com...


If there is ever an electrical fire at any
building that you did electrical work in...you can kiss your life goodbye.
You can be arrested, tried in a criminal court, and sentenced to prison,
plus sued for everything you own in a civil court. This can happen to you
because it is a crime in any state (as far as I know) for you to do this
work. Liability insurance is not even an option for you because you have
to
be licensed to get the insurance in the first place.

What hogwash!

Oh really?

Yes really.

Here's one where they didn't even do any work, they just attempted to
contract it.
http://www.ocala.com/article/20081121/ARTICLES/811210291?Title=Unlicensed-contractors-arrested-in-Marion-sting

Here's an ABC article telling you flat out that even those hiring unlicensed
contractors face arrest.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CreativeConsumer/story?id=2624448

Prison time for fraud.
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/GeneralInformation/Newsroom/PressReleases/PressReleases2003/news20031222.asp

Another sting operation.
http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/target_12/local_wpri_target_12_unlicensed_contractors_sting_20090504_nk

I could go on and on posting these links, but I don't see any reason to beat
you over your head with your own ignorance.

Yes, please do. ...for *every* jurisdiction in the US.

 

[krw]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:00:09 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

krw wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:00:13 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


krw wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:22:34 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:46:59 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:33:28 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:08:59 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <Wg44m.10923$8P7.9233@newsfe21.iad>, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:

It is not regular practice to inform the owner, unless something is found to
be wrong. Having 245v in the building is not normal, and there is a lot of
equipment out there that does not have taps. Equipment without taps could be
damaged by this higher than usual voltage.

Nonsense. 245V = 240V + 2%. That's just not a big deal -- as long as it's a
nominal 240V supply. If the nominal supply is 208V, then yes, that's a huge
problem. But you have no idea what the supply in the building is supposed to
be, so you have no basis for saying that it's "not normal".

It is the responsibility of the electrician to make sure the equipment he is
wiring can correctly run on the power being supplied.

No, it's not, unless there's a contract specifically requiring him to do so.
The electrician's responsibility is to install the circuits specified by the
person who hired him. The one who owns the equipment is responsible for
preparing the specs.

IMO the electrician
did not do his job correctly.

In what way?


220 to 245 is an 11.4% difference.

220V service doesn't exist, DimBulb.

Read the post,idiot. If there are no 220 volt service provisions, why
are there "220 volt taps" on equipment?

Irrelevant to the real world, DimBulb. 220V is so 1950s.


Has anyone ever seen a 1950s CNC machine?

Does a Jaquard loom count? Oh, 1950s, not 1750s. ;-)


Did it have a $4000 controller board? ;-)

In 2009 dollars, quite likely.

 

[rangerssuck]

On Jul 5, 6:30 pm, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
<Zarathus...@thusspoke.org> wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:58:42 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck



rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 5, 2:50 pm, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathus...@thusspoke.org> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 11:31:43 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck

rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to muddy it up even further, we recently put a medical device
through CE approval and were advised by the examiner that our label
should read "110/240", and that's the label we passed with.

 CE?  I am surprised that they did not want it to read "95 - 265 VAC"

  That is what most CE equipment works at.

  It makes a product that barely works in Japan's 90V realm, and then
only on some products.

 I had to do a redesign to insure that a production printer (supply)would
be marketable/functional in Japanese geographical/voltage markets.

Note: That was a slash, not a dash. This was not a "universal input",
it was a dual-voltage device, with a 2:1 switchable primary. I was
surprised that they didn't want 110/220 or 120/240 or 115/230. Nope,
they insisted on 110/240. Go figure.

  You have a medical device that uses a linear front end?

yes.

 

[rangerssuck]

On Jul 5, 6:19 pm, "Martin Riddle" <martin_...@verizon.net> wrote:

"rangerssuck" <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:16ffc31e-9be9-400c-93fc-8a7c5055ed6d@b9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...



On Jul 5, 2:50 pm, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathus...@thusspoke.org> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 11:31:43 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck

rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to muddy it up even further, we recently put a medical device
through CE approval and were advised by the examiner that our label
should read "110/240", and that's the label we passed with.

 CE?  I am surprised that they did not want it to read "95 - 265 VAC"

  That is what most CE equipment works at.

  It makes a product that barely works in Japan's 90V realm, and then
only on some products.

 I had to do a redesign to insure that a production printer
(supply)would
be marketable/functional in Japanese geographical/voltage markets.

Note: That was a slash, not a dash. This was not a "universal input",
it was a dual-voltage device, with a 2:1 switchable primary. I was
surprised that they didn't want 110/220 or 120/240 or 115/230. Nope,
they insisted on 110/240. Go figure.

Technically it should be 120/240, I think the examiner wasn’t awfully
intelligent.

You'd think so, wouldn't you.

Was this a UL CB ?

This was an outfit from Canada that specialized in CE approvals.

Cheers

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Rich." wrote:

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:60l255dmjjuaoloi8pghp76k0ptbgi5in2@4ax.com...


If there is ever an electrical fire at any
building that you did electrical work in...you can kiss your life goodbye.
You can be arrested, tried in a criminal court, and sentenced to prison,
plus sued for everything you own in a civil court. This can happen to you
because it is a crime in any state (as far as I know) for you to do this
work. Liability insurance is not even an option for you because you have
to
be licensed to get the insurance in the first place.

What hogwash!

Oh really?

Here's one where they didn't even do any work, they just attempted to
contract it.
http://www.ocala.com/article/20081121/ARTICLES/811210291?Title=Unlicensed-contractors-arrested-in-Marion-sting

Wow. The Ocala Scar Banana! A N.Y. Times paper that isn't fit to
wrap fish in. parakeets shread it to toss it out of their cages, too.

Did you also see the nice smear job they did to slander a canidate
for School Board last year?

They claimed he didn't have a teaching degree or college degree,
becasue they were too lazy to do any research:


<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=Bernard+Lecorn&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g1>

Even hafter they were proven wrong, they didn't remove the
accusations from their website which cost him the election, for sure.


My favorite Star Banner screwup was a quater page story about a mini
pickup truck that was in a wreck on 441. The picture showed the truck
that rolled, the crushed work toolboxes, and tools all over two full
lanes, yet they referred to it as an automobile all through the article.

Then there are their ignorant but arrogant columnists who bitch about
your spelling, but never admit their mistakes. They claim that no one
uses proofreaders any more, or fact checkers because its too expensive.




--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

krw wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:00:09 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


krw wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:00:13 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


krw wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:22:34 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:46:59 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:33:28 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:08:59 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article <Wg44m.10923$8P7.9233@newsfe21.iad>, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:

It is not regular practice to inform the owner, unless something is found to
be wrong. Having 245v in the building is not normal, and there is a lot of
equipment out there that does not have taps. Equipment without taps could be
damaged by this higher than usual voltage.

Nonsense. 245V = 240V + 2%. That's just not a big deal -- as long as it's a
nominal 240V supply. If the nominal supply is 208V, then yes, that's a huge
problem. But you have no idea what the supply in the building is supposed to
be, so you have no basis for saying that it's "not normal".

It is the responsibility of the electrician to make sure the equipment he is
wiring can correctly run on the power being supplied.

No, it's not, unless there's a contract specifically requiring him to do so.
The electrician's responsibility is to install the circuits specified by the
person who hired him. The one who owns the equipment is responsible for
preparing the specs.

IMO the electrician
did not do his job correctly.

In what way?


220 to 245 is an 11.4% difference.

220V service doesn't exist, DimBulb.

Read the post,idiot. If there are no 220 volt service provisions, why
are there "220 volt taps" on equipment?

Irrelevant to the real world, DimBulb. 220V is so 1950s.


Has anyone ever seen a 1950s CNC machine?

Does a Jaquard loom count? Oh, 1950s, not 1750s. ;-)


Did it have a $4000 controller board? ;-)

In 2009 dollars, quite likely.

Well, Zero bit processors were quite expensive.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 22:06:26 -0400, "Rich." <rcres@XXcomcast.net> wrote:

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:60l255dmjjuaoloi8pghp76k0ptbgi5in2@4ax.com...


If there is ever an electrical fire at any
building that you did electrical work in...you can kiss your life goodbye.
You can be arrested, tried in a criminal court, and sentenced to prison,
plus sued for everything you own in a civil court. This can happen to you
because it is a crime in any state (as far as I know) for you to do this
work. Liability insurance is not even an option for you because you have
to
be licensed to get the insurance in the first place.

What hogwash!

Oh really?

Here's one where they didn't even do any work, they just attempted to
contract it.
http://www.ocala.com/article/20081121/ARTICLES/811210291?Title=Unlicensed-contractors-arrested-in-Marion-sting

Florida

Here's an ABC article telling you flat out that even those hiring unlicensed
contractors face arrest.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CreativeConsumer/story?id=2624448

Generic warning

"Did you know you could be arrested for using an unlicensed contractor?
It's true. In states that require licensing, hiring an unlicensed
contractor is illegal" Note the " In states that require licensing"?

Prison time for fraud.
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/GeneralInformation/Newsroom/PressReleases/PressReleases2003/news20031222.asp

"The Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office prosecuted the case
against Kressin after he was arrested and charged with felony
residential burglary, theft from an elder, grand theft, and contracting
without a license" Note..he was claiming to be a licensed contractor
as well.....

Another sting operation.
http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/target_12/local_wpri_target_12_unlicensed_contractors_sting_20090504_nk

Rhode Island.

I could go on and on posting these links, but I don't see any reason to beat
you over your head with your own ignorance.

Interesting. You still havent settled anything but you sure have done
some tough work.

Kudos!!

Gunner

"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:15:25 -0400, Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton@fuse.net>
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:12:13 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:28:50 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:


A CNC machine is something different than a light bulb. Few
electricians know more than how to connect a light bulb and outlets.
Besides, the story doesn't tell whether the machine has a permanent
mains connection or is connected by a cord.

I know of zero CNC machines that operate from a line cord.
And what is your definition of a line cord?

You've never seen 3 Wire with ground, plugs connected to cords on
electrical equipment?

He must not get out much....shrug.

And in most of California..that means far far different requirements
..legally.. than does hardwiring.

I love that stuff, In the shipyards, weld the stuff to the deck, put a
plug and connector on it, and it is "temporary"

Ayup..and if you put a plug and cord on a CNC machine..it too is
"temporary" and doesnt require a license to do.

Gunner

"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno