Driver to drive?

Andrew Gabriel · Apr 24, 2009

In article <gst1vb$453$1@news.motzarella.org>,
James Sweet <jamessweet1@trashmail.net> writes:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Designing a full range of filament lamps to operate over a
wide range of voltages is a challenge rather like trying to
solve a set of simultaneous equations when there aren't
enough variables, so you end up with compromises, such as
lower efficiency.

To make a 240V filament, you need a very long thin wire.
It has far too much surface area to get to the 2700K operating
temperature without radiating 100W away at a lower temperature.
The way 240V filament lamps are made to work is to double
coil the filament, so that much of the filament is radiating
heat back onto itself, and the effective surface area for
radiating heat away from the filament is significantly
less than the filament's real surface area. This isn't as
effective as using an optimum thickness filament in the first
place, i.e. you have just the right surface area to radiate
100W when it's reached 2700K, and you still have a larger
surface area for filament evaporation and thinning.

And yes, you're right about heat loss by conduction down the
lead-in wires becoming increasingly significant at low
voltages/high currents. With longer fragile filaments, the loss
from the ends is proportionally less, but you may also require
filament supports, which are additional routes to lose heat,
and you lose more by convection to the gas-fill.

Most 120V tungsten lamps use a coiled coil filament as well, as do some
lower voltage lamps.

A major issue with long thin filaments is convective loss to the fill
gas. If you eliminate the fill gas and use a vacuum instead to solve
this problem, you greatly increase the evaporation rate of the tungsten;
out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Yes. We do have some lamps where a vacuum has to be used, because
even a coiled coil doesn't enable the filament to run hot enough.
They have to be under-run as compared with gas-filled lamps to get
a reasonable life, although it's still only 75% of the life of gas-
filled lamps. Needless to say, they're horribly inefficient too.

They are standard shape (GLS as we call them) light bulbs of 25W or
less. (This means they can be used in the rain without risk of glass
shattering, because without any gas-fill to convect heat to the glass,
it runs much colder. Commonly used to make up strings of coloured
carnival lamps.)

Also the various formats of filament strip lamps, although these
are only single coil because they need the filament stretched
along the whole length of the tube. (Appalling things which should
have gone from the marketplace years ago.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Joerg · Apr 24, 2009

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:27:36 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

[...]

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

BTW, your taste of art is, ahm, ahem, weird ...

Modern expressionist plus much Native American art.

What is you aged mind into... American Gothic ?

No, more like Kinkade style.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jim Thompson · Apr 25, 2009

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:10:23 -0700, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:27:36 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

[...]

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

BTW, your taste of art is, ahm, ahem, weird ...

Modern expressionist plus much Native American art.

What is you aged mind into... American Gothic ?

No, more like Kinkade style.

T · Apr 25, 2009

In article <95nvu4l035ecbfca5afbua1277fsuqmoqj@4ax.com>,
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz says...

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:16:47 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:11:07 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:53:26 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:23:05 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Another example is the dominant furniture style: IKEA making slow inroads
against the standard velvety sofa http://www.homereserve.com/furn-
style.cfm?item=Sofa&sel=7

Hardly "dominant", but common and comfortable. We have all sorts of
furniture here, too. A lot of the Ikea stuff isn't comfortable.

IKEA certainly isn't dominant. In fact I've never seen it in anyone's
house. Perhaps it's ubiquitous in left lefty land but not the rest of
the country.

We did our offices mostly in Ikea. This "computer workstation" makes a
very nice workbench, except that they have discontinued it.

ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/DSC01371.JPG

Looks pretty light. I'm used to 1-1/2" laminated maple tops.

The cabinet to the left is Ikea too. I like their office furniture
better than their home stuff, but it's all OK, and cheap.

We bought some Ikea stuff for the cabin in Truckee. We had to haul it
from Sacramanto, because there's not a single Ikea in Nevada.

Their swedish meatballs are pretty good.

Ikea meatballs taste like sawdust. ;-)

This is a big country with a lot of variety. And there's nothing wrong
with tradition.

I prefer Ohio Amish built Mission style furniture, in Cherry.

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?collection=118

...and it'll last longer than particle board with a picture of wood on
it.

Wood? All the way through?

Cherry. All the way through. The Amish still build real furniture.

Here is our dining room:

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?collection=117

We don't have the corner cupboard or the buffet, but have six chairs.
The table has four leaves stored in the center section and opens to
10'. It's heavy stuff.

A _real_ table (granite)...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

All of the counters in our house (five in the kitchen, two in the
great room, and three full bathrooms) with the exception of tha
laundry are granite. I'd rather have wood for some of them but my
wife doesn't like butcher block counters.

Enjoy the radon exposure. Apparently some granite is pretty radioactive.

Jim Thompson · Apr 25, 2009

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 01:01:49 -0400, T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net>
wrote:

In article <95nvu4l035ecbfca5afbua1277fsuqmoqj@4ax.com>,
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz says...

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:16:47 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:11:07 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:53:26 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:23:05 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Another example is the dominant furniture style: IKEA making slow inroads
against the standard velvety sofa http://www.homereserve.com/furn-
style.cfm?item=Sofa&sel=7

Hardly "dominant", but common and comfortable. We have all sorts of
furniture here, too. A lot of the Ikea stuff isn't comfortable.

IKEA certainly isn't dominant. In fact I've never seen it in anyone's
house. Perhaps it's ubiquitous in left lefty land but not the rest of
the country.

We did our offices mostly in Ikea. This "computer workstation" makes a
very nice workbench, except that they have discontinued it.

ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/DSC01371.JPG

Looks pretty light. I'm used to 1-1/2" laminated maple tops.

The cabinet to the left is Ikea too. I like their office furniture
better than their home stuff, but it's all OK, and cheap.

We bought some Ikea stuff for the cabin in Truckee. We had to haul it
from Sacramanto, because there's not a single Ikea in Nevada.

Their swedish meatballs are pretty good.

Ikea meatballs taste like sawdust. ;-)

This is a big country with a lot of variety. And there's nothing wrong
with tradition.

I prefer Ohio Amish built Mission style furniture, in Cherry.

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?collection=118

...and it'll last longer than particle board with a picture of wood on
it.

Wood? All the way through?

Cherry. All the way through. The Amish still build real furniture.

Here is our dining room:

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?collection=117

We don't have the corner cupboard or the buffet, but have six chairs.
The table has four leaves stored in the center section and opens to
10'. It's heavy stuff.

A _real_ table (granite)...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

All of the counters in our house (five in the kitchen, two in the
great room, and three full bathrooms) with the exception of tha
laundry are granite. I'd rather have wood for some of them but my
wife doesn't like butcher block counters.

Enjoy the radon exposure. Apparently some granite is pretty radioactive.

Joerg · Apr 25, 2009

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:10:23 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:27:36 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

[...]

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

BTW, your taste of art is, ahm, ahem, weird ...
Modern expressionist plus much Native American art.

What is you aged mind into... American Gothic ?

No, more like Kinkade style.

Got any originals? Mine is _all_ original or commissioned.

Not from Kinkade, just licensed copies that are sold in limited qties.
His art gallery is right here in Placerville. No need to show off

Seriously, if we were contemplating buying an original we'd rather buy a
limited edition (a.k.a. legal) copy and give the rest to church.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jim Thompson · Apr 25, 2009

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:14:59 -0700, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:10:23 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:27:36 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

[...]

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

BTW, your taste of art is, ahm, ahem, weird ...
Modern expressionist plus much Native American art.

What is you aged mind into... American Gothic ?

No, more like Kinkade style.

Got any originals? Mine is _all_ original or commissioned.

Not from Kinkade, just licensed copies that are sold in limited qties.
His art gallery is right here in Placerville. No need to show off

Seriously, if we were contemplating buying an original we'd rather buy a
limited edition (a.k.a. legal) copy and give the rest to church.

Joerg · Apr 25, 2009

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:14:59 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:10:23 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:27:36 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

[...]

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

BTW, your taste of art is, ahm, ahem, weird ...
Modern expressionist plus much Native American art.

What is you aged mind into... American Gothic ?

No, more like Kinkade style.
Got any originals? Mine is _all_ original or commissioned.

Not from Kinkade, just licensed copies that are sold in limited qties.
His art gallery is right here in Placerville. No need to show off

Seriously, if we were contemplating buying an original we'd rather buy a
limited edition (a.k.a. legal) copy and give the rest to church.

I support our local native American communities, Apache, Hopi, Pima
and Navajo... probably $100K worth of paintings and stonework
statuary; plus some selected gringo (impressionist) artists ;-)

Ok, but this stuff (impressionist) just ain't our taste. Since you have
contacts to the Hopi do you know whatever happened to Hopi Electronics?
I tried to find them a couple of times when sub-contract work was needed
but no luck. What I've seen from them in the early 90's was top quality
work.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jim Thompson · Apr 25, 2009

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:56:41 -0700, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:14:59 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:10:23 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:27:36 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

[...]

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

BTW, your taste of art is, ahm, ahem, weird ...
Modern expressionist plus much Native American art.

What is you aged mind into... American Gothic ?

No, more like Kinkade style.
Got any originals? Mine is _all_ original or commissioned.

Not from Kinkade, just licensed copies that are sold in limited qties.
His art gallery is right here in Placerville. No need to show off

Seriously, if we were contemplating buying an original we'd rather buy a
limited edition (a.k.a. legal) copy and give the rest to church.

I support our local native American communities, Apache, Hopi, Pima
and Navajo... probably $100K worth of paintings and stonework
statuary; plus some selected gringo (impressionist) artists ;-)

Ok, but this stuff (impressionist) just ain't our taste. Since you have
contacts to the Hopi do you know whatever happened to Hopi Electronics?
I tried to find them a couple of times when sub-contract work was needed
but no luck. What I've seen from them in the early 90's was top quality
work.

krw · Apr 25, 2009

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 01:01:49 -0400, T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net>
wrote:

In article <95nvu4l035ecbfca5afbua1277fsuqmoqj@4ax.com>,
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz says...

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:16:47 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:11:07 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:53:26 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:23:05 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Another example is the dominant furniture style: IKEA making slow inroads
against the standard velvety sofa http://www.homereserve.com/furn-
style.cfm?item=Sofa&sel=7

Hardly "dominant", but common and comfortable. We have all sorts of
furniture here, too. A lot of the Ikea stuff isn't comfortable.

IKEA certainly isn't dominant. In fact I've never seen it in anyone's
house. Perhaps it's ubiquitous in left lefty land but not the rest of
the country.

We did our offices mostly in Ikea. This "computer workstation" makes a
very nice workbench, except that they have discontinued it.

ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/DSC01371.JPG

Looks pretty light. I'm used to 1-1/2" laminated maple tops.

The cabinet to the left is Ikea too. I like their office furniture
better than their home stuff, but it's all OK, and cheap.

We bought some Ikea stuff for the cabin in Truckee. We had to haul it
from Sacramanto, because there's not a single Ikea in Nevada.

Their swedish meatballs are pretty good.

Ikea meatballs taste like sawdust. ;-)

This is a big country with a lot of variety. And there's nothing wrong
with tradition.

I prefer Ohio Amish built Mission style furniture, in Cherry.

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?collection=118

...and it'll last longer than particle board with a picture of wood on
it.

Wood? All the way through?

Cherry. All the way through. The Amish still build real furniture.

Here is our dining room:

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?collection=117

We don't have the corner cupboard or the buffet, but have six chairs.
The table has four leaves stored in the center section and opens to
10'. It's heavy stuff.

A _real_ table (granite)...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/FamilyPixs/dsc00006.jpg

All of the counters in our house (five in the kitchen, two in the
great room, and three full bathrooms) with the exception of tha
laundry are granite. I'd rather have wood for some of them but my
wife doesn't like butcher block counters.

Enjoy the radon exposure. Apparently some granite is pretty radioactive.

Yet another weenie pokes his head out of the swamp.

Nobody · Apr 26, 2009

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 01:01:49 -0400, T wrote:

Enjoy the radon exposure. Apparently some granite is pretty radioactive.

Granite itself isn't particularly radioactive. The main problem is that
the radon it gives off is quite radioactive, and can accumulate in the
structure of buildings.

This only matters if your house is built in an area where most the
prevailing geology is granite; worktops or other small lumps of granite
aren't an issue.

Eeyore · Apr 26, 2009

pg wrote:

I just purchase a Silverstone Power Supply Unit (PSU) for my PC.

I am amaze with the PFC (Power Factor Correction) rating of over 0.96,
which, according to some indicators, means it's 96% efficient. (4%
wastage as heat).

Incorrect. It has nothing to do with efficiency.

Since it's a new unit I dare not to open up the PSU to see what type
of electronics they are using.

So I post the question here ----

Can anyone tell me what type of Power Conversion Electronic Devices
they use in those high PFC rating PSU?

Download an application note say from I.R.

Graham

Nobody · Apr 27, 2009

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:09:30 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

I just purchase a Silverstone Power Supply Unit (PSU) for my PC.

I am amaze with the PFC (Power Factor Correction) rating of over 0.96,
which, according to some indicators, means it's 96% efficient. (4%
wastage as heat).

Incorrect. It has nothing to do with efficiency.

It has *some* effect upon efficiency, but not much.

JosephKK · Apr 27, 2009

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:05:27 +0100, Mike <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:35:18 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_inventions

Probably the most inaccurate page on Wikipedia, with probably the
longest list of dubious references. 90% of the inventions on that
list were invented by someone else, in a different country, years,
decades or in some cases even centuries before.

While much is easily disputed, the 90% claim is seriously overblown.
I, as an american, had problems with about 15% of the claims, ans i
know that at elast 2% to 5% simply ain't so. Classic example, Charles
Babbage and the need for interchangable parts.
.

PlainBill · Apr 27, 2009

On 27 Apr 2009 11:54:27 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

John E. <incognito@xbjcd.com> wrote in
news:0001HW.C61A99EB00C5A686B02809AF@news.sf.sbcglobal.net:

There are many ways to fix electronic systems. Replacing the parts
that 'usually' fail is one way. It's an expensive way, but it IS a
way.
PlainBill

It's not about "shotgun repair".

My inquiry re. "usual suspects" is to get an idea of where to start
testing (key word: "testing").

For example hearing that the windings frequently go and take the
transistors with them, I'll start by looking at:

Fuse, windings, transistors.

Before wading into a swamp, it pays to talk to others who have been
there.

that inductor sounds like a great place to use a flyback tester,like the
inexpensive Dick Smith FBT.
True. Or even the much older yoke and flyback testers of the CRT TV

age will do the job.

PlainBill

Eeyore · Apr 27, 2009

Nobody wrote:

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:09:30 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

I just purchase a Silverstone Power Supply Unit (PSU) for my PC.

I am amaze with the PFC (Power Factor Correction) rating of over 0.96,
which, according to some indicators, means it's 96% efficient. (4%
wastage as heat).

Incorrect. It has nothing to do with efficiency.

It has *some* effect upon efficiency, but not much.

Yes, it decreases the overall efficiency of the PSU but increases the
efficiency of the grid !

Graham

Eeyore · Apr 27, 2009

Tim Williams wrote:

On Apr 26, 11:33 am, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
It also tries not to draw any current at harmonics. It is unfortunate
that one term is now used for two effects but we are stuck with it.

Displacement Factor is the fudamental only.

Never heard that term. Can you explain ?

Graham

Charlie E. · Apr 27, 2009

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:36:58 -0700, John E. <incognito@xbjcd.com>
wrote:

It is mostly the TV programs that fail.

Very funny. I agree: My TV won't survive another episode of "Lost".

But that's a discussion for another time...

Speaking of failing TVs...

My old Zenith 25" TV has been doing the oddest thing. The menus are
going crazy, like someone was randomly hitting the menu button on my
remote. The menus pop up, start changing different values, go here
and there throughout the menu tree. It drives me crazy to try and
watch it! My wife doesn't mind, though... ;-)

Any ideas what could be causing it? At first, I thought it might be a
remote problem, or even a remote interaction problem, but it doesn't
look like it. I even to out the batteries to all the remotes, and
covered the IR receiver window, but it still kept going crazy. My
only thought is some sort of fault on the logic board, or something.

Charlie

Michael A. Terrell · Apr 27, 2009

"Charlie E." wrote:

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:36:58 -0700, John E. <incognito@xbjcd.com
wrote:

It is mostly the TV programs that fail.

Very funny. I agree: My TV won't survive another episode of "Lost".

But that's a discussion for another time...

Speaking of failing TVs...

My old Zenith 25" TV has been doing the oddest thing. The menus are
going crazy, like someone was randomly hitting the menu button on my
remote. The menus pop up, start changing different values, go here
and there throughout the menu tree. It drives me crazy to try and
watch it! My wife doesn't mind, though... ;-)

Any ideas what could be causing it? At first, I thought it might be a
remote problem, or even a remote interaction problem, but it doesn't
look like it. I even to out the batteries to all the remotes, and
covered the IR receiver window, but it still kept going crazy. My
only thought is some sort of fault on the logic board, or something.

Charlie

Ask on news:sci.electronics.repair Give them the model number or
chassis number.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Tim Williams · Apr 28, 2009

On Apr 27, 1:44 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Displacement Factor is the fudamental only.

Never heard that term. Can you explain ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Non-sinusoidal_components

It's mentioned in a paragraph or two.

Apparently it's a fairly new term, IEEE or NEMA probably have
something about it.

The power meters in the power electronics lab here read three phase V,
I, P, Q, PF, DF, etc. directly. Scary expensive Fluke 434.

Tim

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